8 ms·
Inhibition of fatty acid oxidation enables heart regeneration in adult mice
- fasteo 3y agoFor what it's worth mildronate (meldonium), the drug taken by several elite athletes (pe. Maria Sharapova), is a potent fatty acid inhibitor.
- stavros 3y agoHow are their hearts?
- talldatethrow 3y agoJudging from the uptick in athlete deaths the last few years, I wouldn't say players are doing too well with whatever they're doing. Here is a Wikipedia page with soccer players that died on the field. 2021 was a rough year which makes you think either a few deaths from what would have happened in 2020 ended up moving into 2021, or covid was really bad for everyone, even athletes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_players_who_died_during_their_careers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football...
- XorNot 3y agoNot unreasonable that this mechanism normally disables to prevent problems though. The point of research like this would be to restore normal function after heart injury.
- waihtis 3y agoThe vaccine had a detrimental effect on the heart health of especially young males: https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evidence-on-rare-heart-condition-after-covid-vaccination/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evide...
- graeme 3y agoThe 2021 deaths began in January, before the vaccine was widely rolled out to young people. Not to minimize vaccine myocarditis, but it is myopic to focus on that and not the extremely contagious disease known to cause heart trouble.
- djmips 3y ago14 died in 2016 - I guess from vaccine right?
- dralley 3y agoThe virus itself had a strong detrimental effect on the heart health of especially young males. Even if you take as given that the vaccine had harmful effects, it's dishonest to single it out without comparison to the impact of getting full fledged COVID.
- jmcgough 3y agoWhat uptick? Doesn't look any worse than 2010 or 2013. It's likely within a standard deviation for the last decade or two.
- cmcaleer 3y ago2021 was a particularly bad year (after a 'miracle' year in 2020), but the 3 year rolling average of 2018-2021, 2019-2022, or 2020-2023 is probably within an SD of any other rolling average since these types of stories got widely reported by the internet rather than being a local tragedy.
- cmcaleer 3y agoA long-term break from extended stress and athleticism, followed by a return to extreme athleticism, which resulted in a single particularly bad year (2021 - 20 deaths)? Notably there are fewer deaths in 2022 (8) than 2019 (10) 2018 (9), and 2017 (10). 2023 looks to be in keeping with that trend. It looks far more like 2021 was a single outlier year with reasonable explanations than an 'uptick', which implies an ongoing trend, which the data you're showing simply doesn't show. Another factor could be that those who had congenital heart conditions who would have died in normal play in 2020 (2) are among those who died in 2021.
- 303uru 3y agoData shows no such uptick across sports. I think your mistaking a reporting bias or your own bias towards such stories as data.
- jmcgough 3y agoAs someone who has seen elite athletes in hospitals: really solid, their heart rate is so low it'd be bradycardic in a normal person.
- djmips 3y agoI remember being like that, even wondered if something was wrong with me - no longer - I stopped training like I used to and now my heart rate is average / high.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoYou are only seeing them before they are sick...it is well know that too much exertion is as bad as too little. https://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2017/04/06/elite-athletes-higher-risk-developing-cardiovascular-abnormalities-average-citizen/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2017/04/06/elite-athletes-higher-...
- FeteCommuniste 3y agoIt doesn't seem like your link supports your assertion. It says: "In fact, there is a large body of research supporting that the population that perform the highest levels of physical activity (i.e. elite athletes) seem to present a lower risk of CV diseases and mortality. Specifically, a meta-analysis including 42087 elite athletes reported a 27% lower risk of mortality associated to CV diseases in comparison with the general population (Garatachea et al., 2014). Furthermore, an epidemiological study that analyzed 15174 Olympic medalists found that these subjects lived a mean of 2.8 years more than the average population, independently of the country or the type of sport performed (Clarke et al., 2012)."
- 303uru 3y agoDid you bother to read that before you posted it? Because it does not support your claim, at all. Atheletes live longer (https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/4/206 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/4/206) and more importantly live morbidity free lives much longer.
- gazelle21 3y ago
- fasteo 3y agoMake no mistake, Meldodium is a therapeutic option[1] for cardiac disease in many eastern countries (Latvia, Russia,Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Belarus,Uzbekistan, Moldova and Kyrgyzstan). [1] Some brand names include: Cardionate, Idrinol, Medatern, Melfor, Midolat, Mildroxyn, Metamax, Metonat, Trizipin, Vazonat, Vazopro, etc
- dcuthbertson 3y agoWhat does "pe." mean in this context?
- tpm 3y agoper example
- salad-tycoon 3y agoi.e. = id est = definition of e.g. = exempli gratias = for example PE = pulmonary embolism, performance enhancing
- thebruce87m 3y agoPhysical Exercise
- soco 3y agoPolyethilene
- dp-hackernews 3y agoPED: Performance Enhancing Drug
- seydor 3y agoprice/earnings
- scoot 3y agoPossibly the abbreviation of a romance language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portguese etc.) spelling of "for example" ("par exemple", "por ejemplo", "per esempio", "por exemplo"...)
- fasteo 3y agoOP here: You've got it. Spaniard, "por ejemplo"
- tpm 3y ago(fatty acid oxidation inhibitor)
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- someplaceguy 3y agoIt's amazing how much mice medicine has advanced. At this rate, it won't be long before they become truly invincible.
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- anodari 3y agoTIL Mighty Mouse was a sci-fi cartoon
- hawski 3y agoThere must be some SF out there where immortal and invincible mice escape the lab and soon we have a paper clip maximizer like situation. The Mice Maximizer?
- wiz21c 3y agoMight as well be the Stem Cell Maximizer. Could be much worse :-)
- yyyk 3y agoInvincibility is overrated. It means we have difficulty harming them, but it doesn't mean they can hurt us. We should instead worry about super-smart mice, so smart they make humans obsolete. They could ceaselessly try to take over the world - every night!
- motoboi 3y ago> Invincibility is overrated. It means we have difficulty harming them, but it doesn't mean they can hurt us. Mammoths when they saw some oddly clever monkeys.
- developer93 3y agoWikipedia thinks it was most likely climate change rather than over hunting.
- bratwurst3000 3y agoAll the health gurus that are based on mostly eating fat will be very confused
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- hgomersall 3y agoWhy?
- bratwurst3000 3y agoThat was more a joke. Most health coaches are bad and only read the headlines. That headline could conclude that fat is bad for the heart. The answere is for sure more complex than easy headlines.
- lambdaba 3y agoYou are the one that's confused if your conclusion is fat = bad for the heart based on this.
- manmal 3y agoOxidizability varies between types of fat. Saturated fat (as the name suggests) doesn’t react as easily. The microbiome (ideally) produces butyrate and other short chained fatty acids, which are required for healthy metabolism. Those also don’t oxidize as easily.
- 876978095789789 3y agoWhy was this person downvoted? High-fat diets absolutely increase fatty acid oxidation; it's literally one of their (deceptive) selling points.
- WithinReason 3y agoAchievement unlocked: heart cancer?
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- andrewstuart 3y agoMice get all the best advances in medical science. You know that mouse superbeings are going to take over the world
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- manmal 3y agoI‘m confused, studies like this one [1] associate decreased fatty acid oxidation in the heart with heart enlargement and subsequent heart failure. Does this concern different cell types? 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35365608/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35365608/
- fintechie 3y agoAlmost for any study that says X, you will find another one that says exactly the inverse.
- manmal 3y agoDon’t know about the exact inverse. But disease X could be improved while disease Y risk rises. It’s curious that both studies are about cardiac health. Maybe there’s different types of FAO, or FAO is desirable in some cell types but not in others.
- thfuran 3y agoIf you have fifty different groups studying roughly the same thing and publishing any interesting-looking results with p<.05, you're probably going to have some spurious results on the topic. If you have 500 groups, you're going to have a lot of spurious and probably some outright contradictory results published.
- jaggederest 3y agoIn many cases, with large enough numbers, the spurious results will outnumber the real ones, especially so since true-null-hypothesis results are often unpublished.
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- bionhoward 3y agoIt probably matters immensely which specific molecule is blocked and if you block one too early in some process then critical intermediates can’t be made. Sort of like deleting some code, it matters what’s downstream, so maybe earlier parts of this process are bad to block, but if you have a heart attack, then blocking later parts of the same process could trick your heart cells back into regenerating instead of being stable. Also worth noting, this could be an example of hormesis. A metabolic approach to de-differentiate heart cells into a more primitive form by disrupting the way they process fats could be considered a toxic insult which triggers some defense (stemness) which is the proximate cause / helpful thing (not the toxic insult)
- INTPenis 3y agoCan someone translate this into what foods are best to avoid heart disease for me? It runs in the family...
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- myshpa 3y ago[flagged]
- sph 3y agoA bit misleading to register a domain with an unbiased-sounding name, like nutritionfacts.org while being a Seventh-Day Adventist, whose mission is to convert the world to vegetarianism, and being on the board of The Vegan Society. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger While vegan science might have grounds for debate, I would not put much weight on people that have literally made vegetarianism their religion. EDIT: also given your post history, seems like you're here, on a site called Hacker News, to do nothing else but push a certain nutritional agenda.
- myshpa 3y ago> being a Seventh-Day Adventist Source? The link you've provided doesn't say anything about it. > While vegan science might have grounds for debate Scientific disciplines specifically focused on veganism or vegetarianism do not exist. Edit: It's not about nutrition; it's the ultimate hack to protect biodiversity, which is being driven to extinction by our agricultural practices, and to safeguard our society from collapse. As such, it belongs here. Lately, it seems to me to be more important than the newest JavaScript frameworks. You're welcome to spend some time in my post history and read on.
- hattmall 3y agoYou may benefit from learning about the importance of red meat and dairy in human development. Stringently depriving children from these nutrition sources should probably be considered child abuse alongside childhood obesity.
- fintechie 3y agoTake this with a pinch of salt. We've managed to cure a myriad of diseases in mice.. eg balding. 99.9% of the time things don't translate to the human body. For now just follow common sense: exercise regularly, low stress and a (mostly) mediterranean diet.
- bionhoward 3y agoAgreed on the common sense stuff but disagree about the difficulty to translate this to practice. Depends if you need it from Big Pharma or if you’re biohacking. The authors highlight a multi step pathway and one of the steps is accumulation of alpha-ketoglutarate which is a common ketone we all already have tons of, and it increases from fasting. Seems like their research indicates there’s a second system hiding behind the first and it only turns on when you have ketones and can’t burn fat. That’s like the logical converse or contrapositive or something to fasted state. This is analogous to diabetic ketoacidosis but seems to have a healthy impact, which is surprising. TLDR: if you think about it, fatty acid oxidation pathways are some of the easiest to target (even with zero drugs…just stop eating for a few days)
- hattmall 3y agoI think the point is that there's no reason as of yet to think this same thing happens in humans. Rats and humans are very very different. Humans may have developed a stress response or any other myriad of things that cause the results to be dissimilar.
- jjallen 3y agoReally 99.9%? The thing is that even if this is is true we can explore things like TOR which mice definitely have and it definitely adds to the list of evidence that inhibiting TOR extends lifespan
- gnurizen 3y agoI would bet a dollar inhibiting TOR via protein restriction turns out to be one of those things thats good for mice but bad for humans. Whatever aging gains you get are probably over-ridden by earlier onset of sarcopenia. Too many studies show how having muscle and strength is key to aging well, something mice in a cage don't have to worry about. Agree though that 99.9 is probably high.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoYou know what else inhibits fatty acid oxidation? CPT1A (Carnitine palmitoyltransferase I) Deficiency. Does this make people live longer? Nope. You know why? Cause it can give people heart disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4358228/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4358228/ I carry a mild form of CPT1A deficiency (I have Inuit heritage) and this prevents ketosis on a high fat (think ocean fats like blubber) diet. But put me under with propanol (A CPT1 inhibitor) and they have to pump me full of glucose. Sorry, but you all are thick and dull because you never think genetics matter when it comes to diet. You think we are all the same and almost every study on nutrition does not account for genetics. In mice, they all have the same genetics, but as humans we vary more than you think. The bad forms of CPT1 Deficiency lead to lifelong problems of hypoglycemia because they are homozygous for the change. They are a sacrifice that enabled the Inuit to survive on the diet we are provided in our ecosystem and we cherish these children. You all are trying to be something you are not, something far from your ancestors. It is sad.
- hattmall 3y agoGenetics matter a lot here for sure, mainly in that the genetics of mice vary greatly from all humans. It's still important to study and understand these interactions.
- fasteo 3y ago>>> You know what else inhibits fatty acid oxidation? CPT1A (Carnitine palmitoyltransferase I) Deficiency. If I am not mistaken, the problem with CPT1A is upstream, way before oxidation occurs, in the breakdown of the long chain fatty acids before they can go into the mitochondria for oxidation. Unrelated to inhibiting oxidation
- c0pium 3y ago> you all are thick and dull because you never think genetics matter This is uncalled for and untrue. There are a lot of human nutrition studies which account for genetics. It sounds like you’re angry, you should think about why that is before lashing out.
- 3y ago