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Spain cancels Pegasus spyware investigation because Israel is not co-operating
- 54r4rf 3y agoWhy do they need to ask Israel? The problem is inside the Police and Ministerio de Interior. They can walk to the building and ask and they should get all the answers.
- nonrandomstring 3y agoFishing for a client list. To be fair, asking the store owner "Did you sell a knife to this murderer?" might yield a saner response than asking the killer. Unfortunately NSO are not that helpful shopkeeper.
- brap 3y agoIn this case the killer is also the investigator. "So I asked the store owner if he sold me the knife (wink), he didn't hear my question (wink), and so I guess I have no choice but to close this investigation. No more questions."
- jiofj 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- idontknowwhynot 3y agoCan you explain what kind threat is morocco to the spain? besides been a former colony.
- pvaldes 3y agoWeaponizing emigration since decades, for example > is why the President surrendered the Western Sahara to Morocco. I wouldn't discard a Biden intervention on this. This is what US government wanted also.
- the_gipsy 3y agoWhich they openly did during this socialist legislature. So it's actually that Morocco has dirt on the opposition: what shady favors did they do in exchange for keeping the borders tight?
- idontknowwhynot 3y ago[flagged]
- pvaldes 3y agoSanchez was not president in 1975, this is for sure.
- ta1243 3y agoThe US recognised Western Sahara as part of Morocco under President Trump in 2020
- pvaldes 3y agoBut Spanish government didn't. They suddenly changed its mind later. And Sanchez, a beggar chasing Biden in the halls for seconds of attention, was suddenly granted a golden ticket to play with the major leagues. Curious if we think about it. Spain received Biden and his family in Madrid in nato meetings, we started to talk more and understand us a little better. Biden came with some previous bad experiences with Latin lobbies, mostly republicans. I think that he has lost some prejudices and seems much more comfortable with the hispanosphere currently. Sahara played a big role as turning point on that history IMAO
- ta1243 3y ago
- pezezin 3y agoSpain "surrendered" the Western Sahara in 1975, way before smartphones.
- fcatalan 3y agoCan you also explain how he surrendered again what the Francoist dictatorship had already surrendered about 50 years ago?
- pvaldes 3y agovery unlikely reason (if the history is true)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- idbehold 3y agos/Spanish/Spain
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pestatije 3y agoany excuse is good to avoid pointing the finger to oneself...i mean you just have to see who was spied on to know who spied them
- 54r4rf 3y agoIt's just ridiculous. Close the investigation because Israel? Give me a break.
- yosito 3y agoI think the title some words.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wslh 3y agoThe world seems more gamified that ever? One person or a team of people in their basement could find a security exploit that impacts the world and at the end these exploits are found in the wild and left a trace. Not all operations leave a trace but it seems we live in a world where we have more information about intelligence operations than ever.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- shrubble 3y agoIf the Israeli government refuses to cooperate, doesn't that reinforce the perspective that the company is separate from Israeli intelligence agencies, only because of the desire for plausible deniability?
- landoftheice 3y ago[dead]
- javimoran 3y agoI don't think so. What the article said is that the government has simply not replied to the 4 requests that have been sent over the last year and a half. To me sticking your head under the sand doesn't imply anything good.
- vuln 3y agoThe _export_ is controlled by the Israeli government. From wiki “Pegasus spyware is classified as a weapon by Israel and any export of the technology must be approved by the government.[9]” [9] https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/spyware-technology-found-on-phone-of-moroccan-journalist-report-says/2020/06/21/ca409294-b220-11ea-8758-bfd1d045525a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/spyware-techno... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSO_Group https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSO_Group
- jacooper 3y agoThats BS, the NSO has very big connections with the mossad, its not a coincidence all their leadership come from the mossad.
- mcpackieh 3y ago> "Pegasus spyware is classified as a weapon by Israel and any export of the technology must be approved by the government." vs > "the NSO has very big connections with the mossad, its not a coincidence all their leadership come from the mossad." You know Mossad is part of the Israeli government, right? NSO is a Mossad operation, e.g. an op of the Israeli government, and all their exports are approved by the Israeli government. There's no contradiction here.
- thrxx 3y ago[flagged]
- ImHereToVote 3y agoThe rules based order?
- landoftheice 3y ago[dead]
- anovikov 3y ago[flagged]
- kmeisthax 3y ago[flagged]
- mathieuh 3y agoBecause that would be collective punishment and illegal under international law. Of course, that doesn't stop Israel bulldozing Palestinians' houses. To make it clear, I think it would be a very bad thing to revoke citizens' citizenship for any reason, let alone for the reasons you suggest.
- LegitShady 3y ago> Because that would be collective punishment and illegal under international law. Of course, that doesn't stop Israel bulldozing Palestinians' houses. What does this have to do with random jews in spain?
- kimsant 3y agoSpain is asking the receipt? Jokes aside, Canadian group points half your country is being spied, specially dissidents. You say nothing is todo with Spain, like a Saudi regime. Then funds are traced from reserved funds of Spanish government to Pegasus's, you agree, say will investigate, ask the receipt to Israel? Just find who/why decided this, put the head down and try to apologize/add measures to avoid spying dissidents
- elicox 3y agoDissident? What are you talking about! Do you mean the people that broke the law? The Canadian group you mention was receiving funds from one the regional government of Spain that was interested on this.
- dist-epoch 3y ago"Police suspends murder investigation because suspect is not cooperating".
- 54r4rf 3y agoIt's not even the suspect. At best, it's the seller of the weapon.
- jacooper 3y ago[flagged]
- mcpackieh 3y agoNo, it's more like NSO running a murder for hire scheme. The actual deeds are done by NSO employees using NSO's infrastructure. These "cyberweapons" aren't like guns, they don't hand this stuff over to the custody of anybody who buys their services. The buyer points their finger and NSO does the shooting. All targets are known and therefore approved by the Israeli government.
- DSingularity 3y agoI wonder if cynicism has won. It seems to me that those that rule this world are unjust tyrants. And most of simply don’t give a shit. I would bet well over half of the info-sec should happily work for NSO. I would bet they wouldn’t care one bit even if they knew the exact names of the dead Palestinians/dissidents left in the wake of their work.
- rewmie 3y ago> I wonder if cynicism has won. It seems to me that those that rule this world are unjust tyrants. And most of simply don’t give a shit. I think your take is not well thought through. Spain is an independent nation, just like Israel. Spain has absolutely no jurisdiction over Israeli citizens or companies, and vice versa. If Spain and Israel haven't signed any agreement to cooperate in this subject, all Spain can do is ask nicely without expecting any response. Being independent or legally bound to reply to a foreign government's requests is not tyranny.
- bjourne 3y agoBoth Spain and Israel are members of INTERPOL so they have indeed signed legally binding cooperation agreements.
- flanked-evergl 3y agoCould you cite the part of the agreement that Israel is not complying with?
- kergonath 3y agoThe agreement is here: https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/working_arrangement_establishing_cooperative_relations_between_the_law_enforcement_authorities_of_israel_and_the_european_union.pdf https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/... The document is quite long so I am not going to cite all of it, but the modes of cooperation are there (including meetings, requests and exchange of information). It does mention explicitly computer crimes as area where parties ought to cooperate.
- bakugo 3y agoIsrael cancels investigation into Israel because Israel is not co-operating.
- Adverblessly 3y agoThere is actually an ongoing investigative committee (i.e. formed by the government) looking into the improper use of NSO's Pegasus! Is it due to the years of reports of improper use of Pegasus by the Israeli police against Israeli citizens? No, it is due to an alleged use against the Prime Minister in his ongoing trials...
- brap 3y agoI want to point out how odd it is that no one cares about international weapons exports, except when talking about cyber weapons. USA is the #1 arms exporter in the world, and its top 3 clients are dictators[0] (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait). In fact nearly half of US weapons go to tyrants. This is not a "usa bad" kind of take, it's just how business is done and it's not just the USA. Fighter jets, missiles, even nukes are being sold all over the world, but god forbids someone sells an 0day. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-b...
- thriftwy 3y agoThe difference is that there is serious deterrence against the use of conventional weapons (you can't just do a quick over the border raid), but for 0days it's all you can exploit buffet.
- brap 3y agoI'm not downplaying cyber weapons, but I would argue that conventional weapons have caused significantly more damage to innocent people over the last few years than any exploit. Deaths in the hundreds of thousands, easily, not to mention injuries, damage of property, etc. Also, the use of cyber weapons is almost meaningless without physical force to back it up. A dictator (or Spain) can spy on their dissidents, sure, but they won't even have any dissidents if they don't have the guns to stay in power. While 0days are still a weapon, and I agree they can and do in fact cause harm to innocent people, I don't think that this comparison is even close.
- yuppiepuppie 3y agoIt could also be related to the fact that conventional weapons trade and arms have been around for a very long time. Therefore control mechanisms and rules of engagement have been set. Where as, cyber weapons are quite new and from my pov not limited in any way. Does anyone know if the sale of a cyber weapon produced in the US can be sold outside to a foreign actor without government approval? If they can be sold, I suppose that’s one other factor at play here.
- narag 3y agoContext: prime minister revealed that he had been spied upon, also defense minister and others. A few days later he published a letter to the king of Morocco reversing decades of Spain's position on Western Sahara. That's a competence of the parliament, not his, but that doesn's seem to matter. A common belief is that he's being blackmailed. Oh and Morocco is now in very good relations with Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Morocco_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Morocco_relatio...
- ihaveajob 3y agoPrecisely this. Other commenters are pointing out that the Spanish government doesn't want to lose the option to investigate secessionist leaders, but given the current good relationships between the socialist party and Puigdemont's, that makes no sense. More likely they're trying to gloss over the obvious blackmailing incident at the first opportunity to blame someone else for the lack of success of any investigation.
- tgv 3y agoIs there any kind of evidence? Or is it a "popular" idea?
- miohtama 3y agoIt's always Citizen Lab of University of Toronto who blows the whistle https://left.eu/pegasus-inquiry-delegation-from-the-left-in-spain-to-gather-evidence/ https://left.eu/pegasus-inquiry-delegation-from-the-left-in-...
- the_gipsy 3y agoWhile that is Pegasus and involves Spanish government, it's not related. The incident in that article would be the previous government (now opposition) spying on Catalan independence parties.
- jiofj 3y ago[flagged]
- denton-scratch 3y agoPegasus was used aginst Catalan independence leaders by the Spanish government. That was certainly the Madrid government, acting with the compliance of the Spanish judiciary. This story is about the use of Pegasus by someone against the Spanish premier Pedro Sanchez. It's at least plausible that it was done by a Spanish government agency; after all, Spanish security agencies already have a licence from NSO to use Pegasus against Spanish politicians. And the Madrid establishment is not well-disposed to socialists (such as Sanchez). It strikes me that this judge simply isn't willing to investigate the Spanish security services for bugging their own Prime Minister.
- vict0ni 3y ago[flagged]
- petre 3y agoThey could freeze all NSO assets in Spain, prohibit payments to the NSO group, designate them as a terrorist organization. But the Spanish government also needs their services to spy on jorunalists and Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont, so I guess they'll let it pass.
- bjourne 3y agoIsrael has a very long history of refusing to cooperate with international law enforcement agencies: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-jewish-american-pedophiles-hide-from-justice-in-israel/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-jewish-american-pedophiles-...
- Zuiii 3y agoIt's not surprising when you consider that significant portions of the lands they claim are theirs are occupied in violation of UN treaties. This also doesn't factor in the long list of war crimes they committed. To me, harboring pedophiles doesn't seem too out of character for them. It's hard to cooperate when your existence is founded on this kind of baggage.
- tamimio 3y agoAnd how’s this a surprise? If they can get away with much worse crimes against children, basic human rights, or even bombing a US ship(1), these are like a marginal stuff dealt with by a low rank department. (1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
- darkclouds 3y ago[flagged]
- FpUser 3y agoNon cooperation did not preclude Iran from being sued for example.
- WalterBright 3y agoThe thing to do is: 1. assume your phone is compromised and act accordingly 2. regularly replace your phone