7 ms·

As an example here, my father and grandfather used to swear by Craftsman tools. No matter the context, if there was a Craftsman version, they'd go for it becaus

As an example here, my father and grandfather used to swear by Craftsman tools. No matter the context, if there was a Craftsman version, they'd go for it because they implicitly trusted the quality. Then the Craftsman brand downshifted its production quality to compete in price and their reliability fell through the floor. Now my family will skip over Craftsman entirely even if it's competitive in price, since the breach of perceived trust soured them on the brand so completely.

taylodl 3y ago
Lowe's supposedly honors the Craftsman lifetime warranty. I haven't tried it, last time I needed to use the warranty was 30 years ago when in the middle of some car repair job I was doing I took the busted wrench into Sears, still dressed in my grimy clothes I was wearing and covered in grease, I handed them the broken wrench and they simply handed me a new one. No questions asked, no paperwork. They handed me a new one and I walked out the door.
- berniedurfee 3y ago
  Had the same experience many years ago. I have a bunch of old Craftsman tools that are superb quality and will last decades more. Sad to see them as an empty house brand now. Just like GE appliances, all that’s left is a sticker.
  - Moto7451 3y ago
    On the bright side, due to how the Power Tool industry works, that Craftsman is in many cases the previous gen Dewalt for 1/3 the price. Others are Porter Cable in red and without a sales rep. I’m tied to Ryobi batteries but I happily pick up Craftsman corded tools when those are an option.
    - berniedurfee 3y ago
      Lol, yeah, if you Google “who owns which power tool brands” you can find the Rosetta Stone of tool brands to figure out which cheaper brands come from the same factories as the expensive stuff. It’s a web of deception for sure.
  - RedShift1 3y ago
    Have you tried the GE Big Boys series of appliances? They look built like tanks.
  - anymouse123456 3y ago
    I don't doubt there are plenty of experiences that went the wrong way, but wanted to share an alternative anecdote that went well. I bought a brand new ~$900 GE dishwasher last year (for a non-intended purpose) and needed to take it apart - for reasons. IMO, the engineering in this thing was just marvelous. It was almost entirely tool-free click/snap fittings for full disassembly and reassembly. The parts were good quality molded, stamped or machined. It was clearly a master class in balancing competing trade-offs (price, assembly labor, reliability, noise, power, efficiency, etc). The simplicity of the thing was really remarkable. Water falls into the side at whatever rate your tap delivers, and when a pressure sensor in the reservoir indicates enough volume to start, the thing begins. It does this a few times, pumping, re-pumping, heating and replacing that reservoir depending on the selected cycle, but overall, the thing is just incredibly simple and (hopefully, somewhat?) reliable.
    - berniedurfee 3y ago
      You actually bought a Haier dishwasher with a GE sticker on it. It’s hard to tell these days whether you’re buying a product from a brand you trust or from a company that bought the brand you trust. Though, having said that, I recently bought a Bosch refrigerator because Bosch is still Bosch and I trusted Bosch. But the refrigerator is crap, broken on arrival and it took 5 phone calls and 3 weeks to get service.
      - WorldMaker 3y ago
        In Haier's case they bought way more than "just" the GE sticker. Haier is still using factories built by GE Appliances for many of their GE branded appliances and in many cases using the same people/processes/pipelines as before. There's still plenty of nuance in these rebadging situations. It's also hard to tell without following a lot of business news whether the new owner just bought "the stickers" or bought all the original factories or bought some complicated deal in between.
      - anymouse123456 3y ago
        Good point. I forgot about the Haier acquisition. While I was pleased with this particular purchase, my ability to trust any brand in general has been diminishing with age and each new betrayal of that trust. I have a growing heuristic that is (at least in part) inversely related to number of employees and the time a company has been publicly traded.
- packetlost 3y ago
  Sears was still doing this when I worked there in 2016. They went as far as to bust open a set of 24 drill bits to replace one of them on the spot.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Wait. Someone returned a drill bit (a wear item) for replacement? Crap like that is why companies have walked away from consumer-biased warranty policies. LLBean had to change theirs as well: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-ll-bean-changed-its-return-policy-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-ll-bean-changed-its-retu...
    - aaronax 3y ago
      It is plausible that it did not live up to reasonable expectations in some way. Equally likely that someone was being dishonest though. Example: I once returned a board that I had cut in half. It was window trim with a shaped profile, and I had previously purchased and installed some of the same SKU before. When I went to install my freshly cut board next to the first ones, it was a little too obvious that it was from a different batch or manufacturer with a slightly different profile.
    - jandrese 3y ago
      I’d totally bring one back if it failed because they forgot to harden it or something. Put it in some wood and the first time you use it the threads reverse because the metal is so soft.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      What else is a lifetime warranty supposed to mean on a drill bit? It's not something vague like the "100% satisfaction" you linked. If they offer the warranty on drill bits, then there's nothing wrong with using the warranty on drill bits. It's not being a bad customer.
AlexandrB 3y ago
Same thing happened with Canadian Tire's "Mastercraft" brand. I think it was always viewed as a Craftsman knock off, but they used to have a lifetime warranty and pretty good quality. I now mostly regard Mastercraft as disposable junk.
joshxyz 3y ago
this also happens on day to day consumer grade stuff. new brands of hotdogs will be yummy, the next batches will be shitty. same with bread from bakeries. it's crazy how the loss in quality begets them increased profits in nthe short term, but costs them their entire business in the long term. the high quality products can be the loss leaders, and they can just commoditize the compliments. why would you reduce the size of bread, when you can just sell me overpriced peanut butter, jams, and spreads to come along with it? a good lesson in trust and social psychology. when trust is built, people throw their money at you.
worldsayshi 3y ago
Very much feels like long term brand building has fallen out of fashion. Has the incentives shifted or is it just viral greed?
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  Basic greed is sufficient, no need for the viral part
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    A "race to the bottom" can certainly feel like "viral" collective behavior even if you want to consider all the individual inputs just "basic greed"
  - sfink 3y ago
    It makes a difference. If you start with several quality brands and one of them sells out, you can switch to one of the others. If everyone pulls the same shit, there's nowhere to go. And everyone is pulling the same shit.
mcv 3y ago
Far too many companies these days are willing to burn down their brand for some quick bucks. It's so common that I'm sure it's part of the MBA curriculum.

taylodl 3y ago

Lowe's supposedly honors the Craftsman lifetime warranty. I haven't tried it, last time I needed to use the warranty was 30 years ago when in the middle of some car repair job I was doing I took the busted wrench into Sears, still dressed in my grimy clothes I was wearing and covered in grease, I handed them the broken wrench and they simply handed me a new one. No questions asked, no paperwork. They handed me a new one and I walked out the door.

berniedurfee 3y ago
Had the same experience many years ago. I have a bunch of old Craftsman tools that are superb quality and will last decades more. Sad to see them as an empty house brand now. Just like GE appliances, all that’s left is a sticker.
- Moto7451 3y ago
  On the bright side, due to how the Power Tool industry works, that Craftsman is in many cases the previous gen Dewalt for 1/3 the price. Others are Porter Cable in red and without a sales rep. I’m tied to Ryobi batteries but I happily pick up Craftsman corded tools when those are an option.
  - berniedurfee 3y ago
    Lol, yeah, if you Google “who owns which power tool brands” you can find the Rosetta Stone of tool brands to figure out which cheaper brands come from the same factories as the expensive stuff. It’s a web of deception for sure.
- RedShift1 3y ago
  Have you tried the GE Big Boys series of appliances? They look built like tanks.
- anymouse123456 3y ago
  I don't doubt there are plenty of experiences that went the wrong way, but wanted to share an alternative anecdote that went well. I bought a brand new ~$900 GE dishwasher last year (for a non-intended purpose) and needed to take it apart - for reasons. IMO, the engineering in this thing was just marvelous. It was almost entirely tool-free click/snap fittings for full disassembly and reassembly. The parts were good quality molded, stamped or machined. It was clearly a master class in balancing competing trade-offs (price, assembly labor, reliability, noise, power, efficiency, etc). The simplicity of the thing was really remarkable. Water falls into the side at whatever rate your tap delivers, and when a pressure sensor in the reservoir indicates enough volume to start, the thing begins. It does this a few times, pumping, re-pumping, heating and replacing that reservoir depending on the selected cycle, but overall, the thing is just incredibly simple and (hopefully, somewhat?) reliable.
  - berniedurfee 3y ago
    You actually bought a Haier dishwasher with a GE sticker on it. It’s hard to tell these days whether you’re buying a product from a brand you trust or from a company that bought the brand you trust. Though, having said that, I recently bought a Bosch refrigerator because Bosch is still Bosch and I trusted Bosch. But the refrigerator is crap, broken on arrival and it took 5 phone calls and 3 weeks to get service.
    - WorldMaker 3y ago
      In Haier's case they bought way more than "just" the GE sticker. Haier is still using factories built by GE Appliances for many of their GE branded appliances and in many cases using the same people/processes/pipelines as before. There's still plenty of nuance in these rebadging situations. It's also hard to tell without following a lot of business news whether the new owner just bought "the stickers" or bought all the original factories or bought some complicated deal in between.
    - anymouse123456 3y ago
      Good point. I forgot about the Haier acquisition. While I was pleased with this particular purchase, my ability to trust any brand in general has been diminishing with age and each new betrayal of that trust. I have a growing heuristic that is (at least in part) inversely related to number of employees and the time a company has been publicly traded.
packetlost 3y ago
Sears was still doing this when I worked there in 2016. They went as far as to bust open a set of 24 drill bits to replace one of them on the spot.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Wait. Someone returned a drill bit (a wear item) for replacement? Crap like that is why companies have walked away from consumer-biased warranty policies. LLBean had to change theirs as well: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-ll-bean-changed-its-return-policy-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-ll-bean-changed-its-retu...
  - aaronax 3y ago
    It is plausible that it did not live up to reasonable expectations in some way. Equally likely that someone was being dishonest though. Example: I once returned a board that I had cut in half. It was window trim with a shaped profile, and I had previously purchased and installed some of the same SKU before. When I went to install my freshly cut board next to the first ones, it was a little too obvious that it was from a different batch or manufacturer with a slightly different profile.
  - jandrese 3y ago
    I’d totally bring one back if it failed because they forgot to harden it or something. Put it in some wood and the first time you use it the threads reverse because the metal is so soft.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    What else is a lifetime warranty supposed to mean on a drill bit? It's not something vague like the "100% satisfaction" you linked. If they offer the warranty on drill bits, then there's nothing wrong with using the warranty on drill bits. It's not being a bad customer.

AlexandrB 3y ago

Same thing happened with Canadian Tire's "Mastercraft" brand. I think it was always viewed as a Craftsman knock off, but they used to have a lifetime warranty and pretty good quality. I now mostly regard Mastercraft as disposable junk.

joshxyz 3y ago

this also happens on day to day consumer grade stuff. new brands of hotdogs will be yummy, the next batches will be shitty. same with bread from bakeries. it's crazy how the loss in quality begets them increased profits in nthe short term, but costs them their entire business in the long term. the high quality products can be the loss leaders, and they can just commoditize the compliments. why would you reduce the size of bread, when you can just sell me overpriced peanut butter, jams, and spreads to come along with it? a good lesson in trust and social psychology. when trust is built, people throw their money at you.

worldsayshi 3y ago

Very much feels like long term brand building has fallen out of fashion. Has the incentives shifted or is it just viral greed?

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Basic greed is sufficient, no need for the viral part
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  A "race to the bottom" can certainly feel like "viral" collective behavior even if you want to consider all the individual inputs just "basic greed"
- sfink 3y ago
  It makes a difference. If you start with several quality brands and one of them sells out, you can switch to one of the others. If everyone pulls the same shit, there's nowhere to go. And everyone is pulling the same shit.

mcv 3y ago

Far too many companies these days are willing to burn down their brand for some quick bucks. It's so common that I'm sure it's part of the MBA curriculum.