6 ms·

Reminds me of something I once heard a VP say at a very old, established company. Something along the lines of, "Our brand is trust. It took 90 years to build i

by duped 3y ago

Reminds me of something I once heard a VP say at a very old, established company. Something along the lines of, "Our brand is trust. It took 90 years to build it, but it would take just one day to destroy it." The point he was making was that this old, established company's biggest asset was its brand, and its brand identity was just "trust" (they made professional products, and others could undercut them, but pros would always return to buy from them because they knew they would get what they paid for). It's the kind of attitude I think every toolmaker (software or otherwise) should keep in mind. Professionals value trust more than they do dollars in their pocket, and the companies with the best reputation and longevity understand that. But also that company was privately owned by a family, and their name is still over the front door. I think that when the execs answer to people whose name is synonymous with the products and culture of the organization, avoiding short term profit motivated garbage strategy is part of your MO.

gameman144 3y ago
As an example here, my father and grandfather used to swear by Craftsman tools. No matter the context, if there was a Craftsman version, they'd go for it because they implicitly trusted the quality. Then the Craftsman brand downshifted its production quality to compete in price and their reliability fell through the floor. Now my family will skip over Craftsman entirely even if it's competitive in price, since the breach of perceived trust soured them on the brand so completely.
- taylodl 3y ago
  Lowe's supposedly honors the Craftsman lifetime warranty. I haven't tried it, last time I needed to use the warranty was 30 years ago when in the middle of some car repair job I was doing I took the busted wrench into Sears, still dressed in my grimy clothes I was wearing and covered in grease, I handed them the broken wrench and they simply handed me a new one. No questions asked, no paperwork. They handed me a new one and I walked out the door.
  - berniedurfee 3y ago
    Had the same experience many years ago. I have a bunch of old Craftsman tools that are superb quality and will last decades more. Sad to see them as an empty house brand now. Just like GE appliances, all that’s left is a sticker.
    - Moto7451 3y ago
      On the bright side, due to how the Power Tool industry works, that Craftsman is in many cases the previous gen Dewalt for 1/3 the price. Others are Porter Cable in red and without a sales rep. I’m tied to Ryobi batteries but I happily pick up Craftsman corded tools when those are an option.
      - berniedurfee 3y ago
        Lol, yeah, if you Google “who owns which power tool brands” you can find the Rosetta Stone of tool brands to figure out which cheaper brands come from the same factories as the expensive stuff. It’s a web of deception for sure.
    - RedShift1 3y ago
      Have you tried the GE Big Boys series of appliances? They look built like tanks.
    - anymouse123456 3y ago
      I don't doubt there are plenty of experiences that went the wrong way, but wanted to share an alternative anecdote that went well. I bought a brand new ~$900 GE dishwasher last year (for a non-intended purpose) and needed to take it apart - for reasons. IMO, the engineering in this thing was just marvelous. It was almost entirely tool-free click/snap fittings for full disassembly and reassembly. The parts were good quality molded, stamped or machined. It was clearly a master class in balancing competing trade-offs (price, assembly labor, reliability, noise, power, efficiency, etc). The simplicity of the thing was really remarkable. Water falls into the side at whatever rate your tap delivers, and when a pressure sensor in the reservoir indicates enough volume to start, the thing begins. It does this a few times, pumping, re-pumping, heating and replacing that reservoir depending on the selected cycle, but overall, the thing is just incredibly simple and (hopefully, somewhat?) reliable.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Same thing happened with Canadian Tire's "Mastercraft" brand. I think it was always viewed as a Craftsman knock off, but they used to have a lifetime warranty and pretty good quality. I now mostly regard Mastercraft as disposable junk.
- joshxyz 3y ago
  this also happens on day to day consumer grade stuff. new brands of hotdogs will be yummy, the next batches will be shitty. same with bread from bakeries. it's crazy how the loss in quality begets them increased profits in nthe short term, but costs them their entire business in the long term. the high quality products can be the loss leaders, and they can just commoditize the compliments. why would you reduce the size of bread, when you can just sell me overpriced peanut butter, jams, and spreads to come along with it? a good lesson in trust and social psychology. when trust is built, people throw their money at you.
- worldsayshi 3y ago
  Very much feels like long term brand building has fallen out of fashion. Has the incentives shifted or is it just viral greed?
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    Basic greed is sufficient, no need for the viral part
    - WorldMaker 3y ago
      A "race to the bottom" can certainly feel like "viral" collective behavior even if you want to consider all the individual inputs just "basic greed"
    - sfink 3y ago
      It makes a difference. If you start with several quality brands and one of them sells out, you can switch to one of the others. If everyone pulls the same shit, there's nowhere to go. And everyone is pulling the same shit.
- mcv 3y ago
  Far too many companies these days are willing to burn down their brand for some quick bucks. It's so common that I'm sure it's part of the MBA curriculum.
the-dude 3y ago
Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback Dutch : Vertrouwen komt te voet en gaat te paard ( Thorbecke ) https://thalein.medium.com/trust-arrives-on-foot-and-leaves-on-horseback-aacde6e69163 https://thalein.medium.com/trust-arrives-on-foot-and-leaves-...
- jmkd 3y ago
  Wonderful saying (a new one to me) and appreciate the explanatory article, thanks.
- Tossrock 3y ago
  Interesting correlate with "stocks take the stairs up and the elevator down" - stock prices being strongly influenced by trust.
- klft 3y ago
  from the linked article: > people and organisations alike tend to be judged by the worst thing they do
nitwit005 3y ago
Sadly, I just assume that no company can be trusted these days. It wasn't too long ago that the leadership of companies was often fairly stable. Now you see people rotating through every couple of years, rarely having to face the fallout of their bad decisions.
- berniedurfee 3y ago
  There are a few. Cockos makes an amazing Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) that competes with the top names in the industry. While much of the rest of the industry is moving to subscriptions or jacking prices, Cockos has kept their prices extremely low and push new releases consistently.
  - nitwit005 3y ago
    A history of doing the right thing doesn't matter in the slightest, unless you can somehow guarantee their leadership won't change (or is unlikely to, at least).
    - BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
      > A history of doing the right thing doesn't matter in the slightest If we all thought this way, certainly there'd be no incentive for anyone to do the right thing at all? A good track record should be rewarded, up until the point when it stops. You shouldn't trust any company indefinitely, but there are a few that you can trust "for now".
      - sobkas 3y ago
        > > A history of doing the right thing doesn't matter in the slightest > If we all thought this way, certainly there'd be no incentive for anyone to do the right thing at all? A good track record should be rewarded, up until the point when it stops. You shouldn't trust any company indefinitely, but there are a few that you can trust "for now". They are doing "right thing" now so later when they dominate market they will be able to squeeze you like a lemon. Scorpion and a frog situation. It's just in their nature.
spookie 3y ago
Your last point is very much true. If the family no longer controls their company, or even, just their founding members, it sets off a huge red flag for me. Sometimes, it's for the better. But, if I had trust in that company, it most likely stemmed from their work. There are some nice examples of founding members going above and beyond to maintain their control, which may not look like it from the get go. Ubisoft comes to mind. I may not like some of their games, but I really appreciate the efforts of the Guillemot brothers.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  On the other hand, founders stepping down as the company gets bigger or is faced with completely different challenges is usually for the better. I can't imagine Daimler-Benz as it is now being led by the 3rd grandson of the original founder for instance. It would be a miracle if that person was well suited for directing a multi-national car manufacturer. Same way Microsoft wouldn't be the same if Bill Gates' son was at the helm.
  - nickserv 3y ago
    If he's been groomed his whole life for running a multi national car company, there's reason to believe he would be better suited than just about anyone.
    - hkt 3y ago
      You'd think, but as the old saying goes: clogs to clogs in three generations. (Meaning: the first generation starts off poor, is self made, hands over to the second generation which is less dynamic, which hands over to the third who wreck it and end up poor clog wearers again)
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      Thing is, education is hard and individual potential also varies a lot. We see this with royalty, where you have literally a country's resources to groom someone into being a high level individual who can deal with most social situations, but having them lead and expand a whole country in another issue altogether. You'll have some Louis XIV sometimes, and many Louis XVI the rest of the time, with sprinkles of Charles II in the mix to spice it up.
rodgerd 3y ago
> Something along the lines of, "Our brand is trust. It took 90 years to build it, but it would take just one day to destroy it." A security architect at a Bank offered a very pithy version of this to me: "People hate banks, but they trust us. Best not lose their trust."

by duped 3y ago

gameman144 3y ago

As an example here, my father and grandfather used to swear by Craftsman tools. No matter the context, if there was a Craftsman version, they'd go for it because they implicitly trusted the quality. Then the Craftsman brand downshifted its production quality to compete in price and their reliability fell through the floor. Now my family will skip over Craftsman entirely even if it's competitive in price, since the breach of perceived trust soured them on the brand so completely.

taylodl 3y ago
Lowe's supposedly honors the Craftsman lifetime warranty. I haven't tried it, last time I needed to use the warranty was 30 years ago when in the middle of some car repair job I was doing I took the busted wrench into Sears, still dressed in my grimy clothes I was wearing and covered in grease, I handed them the broken wrench and they simply handed me a new one. No questions asked, no paperwork. They handed me a new one and I walked out the door.
- berniedurfee 3y ago
  Had the same experience many years ago. I have a bunch of old Craftsman tools that are superb quality and will last decades more. Sad to see them as an empty house brand now. Just like GE appliances, all that’s left is a sticker.
  - Moto7451 3y ago
    On the bright side, due to how the Power Tool industry works, that Craftsman is in many cases the previous gen Dewalt for 1/3 the price. Others are Porter Cable in red and without a sales rep. I’m tied to Ryobi batteries but I happily pick up Craftsman corded tools when those are an option.
    - berniedurfee 3y ago
      Lol, yeah, if you Google “who owns which power tool brands” you can find the Rosetta Stone of tool brands to figure out which cheaper brands come from the same factories as the expensive stuff. It’s a web of deception for sure.
  - RedShift1 3y ago
    Have you tried the GE Big Boys series of appliances? They look built like tanks.
  - anymouse123456 3y ago
    I don't doubt there are plenty of experiences that went the wrong way, but wanted to share an alternative anecdote that went well. I bought a brand new ~$900 GE dishwasher last year (for a non-intended purpose) and needed to take it apart - for reasons. IMO, the engineering in this thing was just marvelous. It was almost entirely tool-free click/snap fittings for full disassembly and reassembly. The parts were good quality molded, stamped or machined. It was clearly a master class in balancing competing trade-offs (price, assembly labor, reliability, noise, power, efficiency, etc). The simplicity of the thing was really remarkable. Water falls into the side at whatever rate your tap delivers, and when a pressure sensor in the reservoir indicates enough volume to start, the thing begins. It does this a few times, pumping, re-pumping, heating and replacing that reservoir depending on the selected cycle, but overall, the thing is just incredibly simple and (hopefully, somewhat?) reliable.
AlexandrB 3y ago
Same thing happened with Canadian Tire's "Mastercraft" brand. I think it was always viewed as a Craftsman knock off, but they used to have a lifetime warranty and pretty good quality. I now mostly regard Mastercraft as disposable junk.
joshxyz 3y ago
this also happens on day to day consumer grade stuff. new brands of hotdogs will be yummy, the next batches will be shitty. same with bread from bakeries. it's crazy how the loss in quality begets them increased profits in nthe short term, but costs them their entire business in the long term. the high quality products can be the loss leaders, and they can just commoditize the compliments. why would you reduce the size of bread, when you can just sell me overpriced peanut butter, jams, and spreads to come along with it? a good lesson in trust and social psychology. when trust is built, people throw their money at you.
worldsayshi 3y ago
Very much feels like long term brand building has fallen out of fashion. Has the incentives shifted or is it just viral greed?
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  Basic greed is sufficient, no need for the viral part
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    A "race to the bottom" can certainly feel like "viral" collective behavior even if you want to consider all the individual inputs just "basic greed"
  - sfink 3y ago
    It makes a difference. If you start with several quality brands and one of them sells out, you can switch to one of the others. If everyone pulls the same shit, there's nowhere to go. And everyone is pulling the same shit.
mcv 3y ago
Far too many companies these days are willing to burn down their brand for some quick bucks. It's so common that I'm sure it's part of the MBA curriculum.

the-dude 3y ago

Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback Dutch : Vertrouwen komt te voet en gaat te paard ( Thorbecke ) https://thalein.medium.com/trust-arrives-on-foot-and-leaves-on-horseback-aacde6e69163 https://thalein.medium.com/trust-arrives-on-foot-and-leaves-...

jmkd 3y ago
Wonderful saying (a new one to me) and appreciate the explanatory article, thanks.
Tossrock 3y ago
Interesting correlate with "stocks take the stairs up and the elevator down" - stock prices being strongly influenced by trust.
klft 3y ago
from the linked article: > people and organisations alike tend to be judged by the worst thing they do

nitwit005 3y ago

Sadly, I just assume that no company can be trusted these days. It wasn't too long ago that the leadership of companies was often fairly stable. Now you see people rotating through every couple of years, rarely having to face the fallout of their bad decisions.

berniedurfee 3y ago
There are a few. Cockos makes an amazing Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) that competes with the top names in the industry. While much of the rest of the industry is moving to subscriptions or jacking prices, Cockos has kept their prices extremely low and push new releases consistently.
- nitwit005 3y ago
  A history of doing the right thing doesn't matter in the slightest, unless you can somehow guarantee their leadership won't change (or is unlikely to, at least).
  - BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
    > A history of doing the right thing doesn't matter in the slightest If we all thought this way, certainly there'd be no incentive for anyone to do the right thing at all? A good track record should be rewarded, up until the point when it stops. You shouldn't trust any company indefinitely, but there are a few that you can trust "for now".
    - sobkas 3y ago
      > > A history of doing the right thing doesn't matter in the slightest > If we all thought this way, certainly there'd be no incentive for anyone to do the right thing at all? A good track record should be rewarded, up until the point when it stops. You shouldn't trust any company indefinitely, but there are a few that you can trust "for now". They are doing "right thing" now so later when they dominate market they will be able to squeeze you like a lemon. Scorpion and a frog situation. It's just in their nature.

spookie 3y ago

Your last point is very much true. If the family no longer controls their company, or even, just their founding members, it sets off a huge red flag for me. Sometimes, it's for the better. But, if I had trust in that company, it most likely stemmed from their work. There are some nice examples of founding members going above and beyond to maintain their control, which may not look like it from the get go. Ubisoft comes to mind. I may not like some of their games, but I really appreciate the efforts of the Guillemot brothers.

makeitdouble 3y ago
On the other hand, founders stepping down as the company gets bigger or is faced with completely different challenges is usually for the better. I can't imagine Daimler-Benz as it is now being led by the 3rd grandson of the original founder for instance. It would be a miracle if that person was well suited for directing a multi-national car manufacturer. Same way Microsoft wouldn't be the same if Bill Gates' son was at the helm.
- nickserv 3y ago
  If he's been groomed his whole life for running a multi national car company, there's reason to believe he would be better suited than just about anyone.
  - hkt 3y ago
    You'd think, but as the old saying goes: clogs to clogs in three generations. (Meaning: the first generation starts off poor, is self made, hands over to the second generation which is less dynamic, which hands over to the third who wreck it and end up poor clog wearers again)
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Thing is, education is hard and individual potential also varies a lot. We see this with royalty, where you have literally a country's resources to groom someone into being a high level individual who can deal with most social situations, but having them lead and expand a whole country in another issue altogether. You'll have some Louis XIV sometimes, and many Louis XVI the rest of the time, with sprinkles of Charles II in the mix to spice it up.

rodgerd 3y ago

> Something along the lines of, "Our brand is trust. It took 90 years to build it, but it would take just one day to destroy it." A security architect at a Bank offered a very pithy version of this to me: "People hate banks, but they trust us. Best not lose their trust."