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I wouldn’t attribute this to immigration. Generally (eta: in my understanding in the usa where this study also is) immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs

I wouldn’t attribute this to immigration. Generally (eta: in my understanding in the usa where this study also is) immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs, and take less from the system than native born people do. I otherwise agree the homeowning NIMBY class who want to retain neighborhood character or whatever suck, because as a consequence they are restricting housing. I also want to point the finger at corporations that buy up housing as an investment; there’s no reason any Corp should be buying up residential family housing and bleeding people dry through rents.

ejb999 3y ago
Just keep telling yourself that... NYC would strongly disagree. When you let 5-10 million +/- people into the country in a short amount of time - where are they supposed to live? Of course it drives up homelessness and home prices - use your common sense.
- addicted 3y ago
  NYC also had the same housing stock in 2020 as in 2000. Despite adding several Boston’s worth of population at the time. So I’m not sure it’s as simple as arguing it’s only the demand side when clearly the supply side hasn’t kept up.
TapWaterBandit 3y ago
Immigration is clearly an undeniable part of the problem. I am in Australia and when immigration was halted during covid rents declined in many places, often substantially. Now we are full-tilt on immigration again and rents are soaring. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting more people in a given area with the same amount of housing will cause the rents to rise.
- addicted 3y ago
  It was clearly the immigration because there was nothing else going on at the time that could explain the changes.
  - infairverona 3y ago
    What a weird way to shot gun an otherwise reasonable argument with the worst example possible.
lm28469 3y ago
> Generally immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs, and take less from the system than native born people do I don't want to generalise things, but since you're doing it yourself: In France migrants and descendant of migrants are between 50% and 100% more unemployed than the rest of the population. They also represent 28% of social spending despite being 12% of the population https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/6793274?sommaire=6793391#:~:text=En%202021%2C%205%20%25%20des%20actifs,%25)%20(figure%203) https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/6793274?sommaire=679339.... https://www.marianne.net/economie/economie-francaise/le-vrai-cout-des-aides-sociales-versees-aux-immigres-en-france# https://www.marianne.net/economie/economie-francaise/le-vrai...
- api 3y ago
  The same is not true in the US. It’s probably a cultural difference. Anyone can come to America and become American, but if you are not French it’s pretty damn hard to become French. Migrants can’t integrate as easily so they become an underemployed class.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    "Integration" is mostly myth when it comes to people from different cultures. Does anybody ask the question if the immigrants to France actually want to integrate? Did immigrants to America want to integrate with the native people there?
- loup-vaillant 3y ago
  Be very careful how you frame things. Here’s another framing: 1. Migrants and their descendants are poorer than average. 2. Social spending is higher among poor people, because that’s the whole point. 3. Disproportionately poor people represent a disproportionate amount of social spending, duh.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Sure, but we're a far cry from most migrants being "job creators and entrepreneurs" The reality is that a lot of them struggle to find jobs, and a lot of them end up working illegally for unscrupulous bosses. And yes there are a whole lot of reasons for that, but at the end of the day it's the reality we have to deal with
jongjong 3y ago
The other side of the coin is that locals increasingly have to compete with immigrants who are put into desperate positions (as a result of having less bargaining power) and therefore willing to accept lower wages which drives down wages for locals too. In effect, the desperation of immigrants spreads to the locals. To the locals who are used to a certain way of life, it's quite a shock that they now have to go to extreme lengths just to make ends meet. Even immigrants who eventually manage to become citizens after several years, eventually find themselves forced to compete with the next wave of even more desperate immigrants.
TinkersW 3y ago
That stat is made up because they ding natives for the cost of K12 education etc, thus making them look worse by comparison because they start out with a big negative value assigned to them.

ejb999 3y ago

Just keep telling yourself that... NYC would strongly disagree. When you let 5-10 million +/- people into the country in a short amount of time - where are they supposed to live? Of course it drives up homelessness and home prices - use your common sense.

addicted 3y ago
NYC also had the same housing stock in 2020 as in 2000. Despite adding several Boston’s worth of population at the time. So I’m not sure it’s as simple as arguing it’s only the demand side when clearly the supply side hasn’t kept up.

TapWaterBandit 3y ago

Immigration is clearly an undeniable part of the problem. I am in Australia and when immigration was halted during covid rents declined in many places, often substantially. Now we are full-tilt on immigration again and rents are soaring. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting more people in a given area with the same amount of housing will cause the rents to rise.

addicted 3y ago
It was clearly the immigration because there was nothing else going on at the time that could explain the changes.
- infairverona 3y ago
  What a weird way to shot gun an otherwise reasonable argument with the worst example possible.

lm28469 3y ago

> Generally immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs, and take less from the system than native born people do I don't want to generalise things, but since you're doing it yourself: In France migrants and descendant of migrants are between 50% and 100% more unemployed than the rest of the population. They also represent 28% of social spending despite being 12% of the population https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/6793274?sommaire=6793391#:~:text=En%202021%2C%205%20%25%20des%20actifs,%25)%20(figure%203) https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/6793274?sommaire=679339.... https://www.marianne.net/economie/economie-francaise/le-vrai-cout-des-aides-sociales-versees-aux-immigres-en-france# https://www.marianne.net/economie/economie-francaise/le-vrai...

api 3y ago
The same is not true in the US. It’s probably a cultural difference. Anyone can come to America and become American, but if you are not French it’s pretty damn hard to become French. Migrants can’t integrate as easily so they become an underemployed class.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  "Integration" is mostly myth when it comes to people from different cultures. Does anybody ask the question if the immigrants to France actually want to integrate? Did immigrants to America want to integrate with the native people there?
loup-vaillant 3y ago
Be very careful how you frame things. Here’s another framing: 1. Migrants and their descendants are poorer than average. 2. Social spending is higher among poor people, because that’s the whole point. 3. Disproportionately poor people represent a disproportionate amount of social spending, duh.
- lm28469 3y ago
  Sure, but we're a far cry from most migrants being "job creators and entrepreneurs" The reality is that a lot of them struggle to find jobs, and a lot of them end up working illegally for unscrupulous bosses. And yes there are a whole lot of reasons for that, but at the end of the day it's the reality we have to deal with

jongjong 3y ago

The other side of the coin is that locals increasingly have to compete with immigrants who are put into desperate positions (as a result of having less bargaining power) and therefore willing to accept lower wages which drives down wages for locals too. In effect, the desperation of immigrants spreads to the locals. To the locals who are used to a certain way of life, it's quite a shock that they now have to go to extreme lengths just to make ends meet. Even immigrants who eventually manage to become citizens after several years, eventually find themselves forced to compete with the next wave of even more desperate immigrants.

TinkersW 3y ago

That stat is made up because they ding natives for the cost of K12 education etc, thus making them look worse by comparison because they start out with a big negative value assigned to them.