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I'm not even sure how Mexico manages to dig itself out. The only way to root out the cartels seems to just hope that the US figures out how to manage its drug m

• nwienert 3y ago
  The US is a very rich country that is very close by, of course the drugs flow there. To single out the US is like blaming trees for forest fires. They're part of the the problem, but it makes it seem like you just want an easy thing to point a finger at, whereas the grim reality is that it's complex and theres a ton of players and plans that'd need to go into motion to ever improve things.
  • ahzhou 3y ago
    I agree it's complex. I'm not blaming the US. Like most problems in the world, it's a result of circumstance, not because there's a bad guy. It's not like there's a magical solution to market forces applying to drugs. My point is more that the geopolitical reasons for the cartel's existence means that Mexico has much less agency in solving it than they would like.
  • jonahbenton 3y ago
    [flagged]
    • hombre_fatal 3y ago
      This just seems like polishing your hobby horse rather than responding to anything stated upstream in the convo. So, Americans wanting drugs and Mexico being able to provide them is related to or caused by an inherent predatory trait that Americans have that's first demonstrated by pioneers a few hundred years ago? Or was it just an "America bad" interjection?
      • flangola7 3y ago
        [flagged]
      • blovescoffee 3y ago
        That comment is deleted so I don’t know what they said but to be fair the US absolutely did harm the stable progression/evolution of the Mexican state many times. It has also helped. Just keep that in mind.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • joe_the_user 3y ago
    The US isn't just some incidental drug market with the illegality of drugs being a fact of nature. US policy began the "war on drugs" and US policy forces other nations to continue it. Drug war policies further have accelerated US consumption and the violence of the cartels ("gun walking" etc, etc).
• patrick451 3y ago
  I don't think Mexico is actually trying to root out the cartels. The corruption, bribes and threats are more powerful than Mexico's will for rule of law. I don't disagree that U.S. demand for drugs plays an enabling role here, but it's telling that the cartels are based in Mexico and not within the U.S. A cartel kingpin could eliminate a huge problem class by not needing to get drugs across the border, but evidently that's easier than evading the DEA on their home turf. Why does Mexico not have an equally fear inspiring agency?
  • hyperliner 3y ago
    [dead]
  • ahzhou 3y ago
    Mexico has been a victim of corruption since before it was a nation. Its political system under the Spanish was designed for efficient resource extraction and labor exploitation. Its home-grown system in the 1930's was created for the consolidation of political power and money to the winners of it's revolution. Combine this with the fact that the drug market in the US is ~$150B, it's hardly surprising that the cartel pops up to service the demand while joining hands with the corrupt central government. Neither group cares about the people. To begin to tackle it as you suggest, I think Mexico needs a full blown revolution which somehow manages to resist the billions of dollars the cartels are sitting on. It's not like Mexican's aren't trying either - it's just that if they try too hard, they get publicly executed. Note that that herculean effort only addresses the supply problem. The demand will still be there until the US controls it's drug epidemic, which I don't think anyone knows how to do. As I mentioned above, I'm not assigning any blame. I think both countries are in some kind of extremely shitty local maxima where the problems are so difficult to solve that a minority of people are able to profit and perpetuate the status quo.
• mminer237 3y ago
  Honestly, I think the US could magically stop all drug imports tomorrow and it would barely affect the cartels. They're essentially just the government of Mexico and tax all industries accordingly. They can get by fine off protection money, iron, avocados, limes, etc.
  • ALittleLight 3y ago
    I think Mexico would need to go the Bukele route to address the issue.
• lp0_on_fire 3y ago
  The cartels are involved with things other than drugs, too. It's also pretty laughable to think that even if the US "demand for drugs" evaporated overnight the cartels would just throw up their hands and say "guess we have to go legit now!".
  • moralestapia 3y ago
    This is the thing that all the "legalize it" guys don't get, at all.
    • hyperliner 3y ago
      [dead]
    • hombre_fatal 3y ago
      What's the argument for that? People have all sorts of reasons for wanting legalization beyond disempowering drug cartels. Like keeping people out of prison for nonviolent crimes, building a culture of rehab over penalization, and creating legitimate drug markets instead of dangerous black markets, off the top of my head, that have nothing to do with whether cartels having other lucrative enterprises beyond drugs.
      • moralestapia 3y ago
        >What's the argument for that? Huh? Did you read @lp0_on_fire's comment? The one I replied to?
      • dumpsterdiver 3y ago
        The parent appeared to be suggesting that legalizing drugs would not solve the cartel problem, because the cartels have already displayed a willingness to engage in different forms of harmful activity. The argument wasn't "legalization is bad", but rather "legalization won't solve this specific problem".
  • invalidname 3y ago
    That's an over simplification. Imagine that drugs, gambling and prostitution were legalized (with restrictions), the cartels would fork off that business into their "legitimate" businesses. Pay taxes and work through there. Eventually, these would become two separate businesses as enforcement would focus on the connection between the businesses and levy sanctions. History is full of such stories where bootleggers became respected business owners. The cartel won't disappear, but it will shrink as its big sources of income would become irrelevant. That would mean law enforcement can be more focused and follow a smaller target. Violence will decrease and everybody wins. Additional taxes from these industry fund more policing of the remainder of the cartels.
• tzs 3y ago
  At least two of the major candidates for the US Presidency and a few members of Congress (including a Senator) have suggested unilaterally sending the US military to take out the cartels [1] [2] [3]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/republicans-new-border-plan-send-military-into-mexico-42121a5e https://www.wsj.com/articles/republicans-new-border-plan-sen... [2] https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/10/gop-bomb-mexico-fentanyl-00091132 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/10/gop-bomb-mexico-fen... [3] https://thehill.com/latino/4170236-gop-talk-of-military-action-in-mexico-sparks-dire-warnings/ https://thehill.com/latino/4170236-gop-talk-of-military-acti...
  • atlas_hugged 3y ago
    Coincidentally, this started right after they found a gigantic source of lithium and said the state would control the mining of it, blocking American companies from exploiting it.
    • rayrey 3y ago
      Sounds like there is some liberating to do.
      • justinclift 3y ago
        [flagged]
    • TheAlchemist 3y ago
      Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Any more info on that ? As far as I know, lithium is pretty much everywhere in abundance, it's rather its refinement that's the problem.
    • blovescoffee 3y ago
      Nah, Elon Musk was here in Mexico like 2 months ago meeting with the President. I don't think there's any problem exporting lithium.
  • remhrtin 3y ago
• karp773 3y ago
  Do you have an explanation why another major neighbor, Canada, does not have drug cartels?
  • karmakurtisaani 3y ago
    Canada doesn't produce the most profitable drugs like cocaine. Producing drugs like meth would be equally difficult as in the US itself due to functioning law enforcement, so why do it in Canada in the first place? Mexico doesn't produce cocaine either, but is on the way to the US from the south.
• EduardoBautista 3y ago
  Many US states legalized marijuana, and violence in Mexico became significantly worse.
  • herbst 3y ago
    What about fentanyl? Pretty sure that's a Mexican Kartell exclusive product. At least in the amounts it's consumed.
• pexabit 3y ago
  In this case, "supply creates its own demand" and in more than just the usual way. Mexico can't dig itself out but the United States could quite easily crush the cartels and letting them continue is an active policy choice. (Consider the organized retail theft and carjacking in San Francisco and Chicago... these are not individual criminals, nor would the racket be profitable without an organized network carefully managing and allocating resources).
  • 3seashells 3y ago
    The US would just need to flood the drug market with cheap state made drugs collapsing the price for a year or two. But then like any company the cartels and the prison industry lobby to well.
    • pexabit 3y ago
      This would be a good idea for ivory not so much fentanyl.
  • tptacek 3y ago
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/how-thieves-are-stealing-hyundais-and-kias-with-just-a-usb-cable https://www.thedrive.com/news/how-thieves-are-stealing-hyund...