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Tonga is running out of space for more than 30k abandoned cars
- ComputerGuru 3y agoSame solution as most problems: import tax should include cost of getting rid of the car when you’re done. Then getting rid of a car is free. Ship it off the island at your expense and you get a refund.
- bagels 3y agoYes, came for the same comment. Add an import tax of 2x whatever it takes to ship a car out. Each new car that comes in, two cars go out.
- booi 3y agoIsn't this the Mount Everest trash solution as well? You have to carry out more trash than you carried in
- sambazi 3y agosome call it decency to leave a place just a little bit better than the way they found it, but "Mount Everest trash solution" sounds nice too
- toomuchtodo 3y agoDecency in short supply.
- booi 3y agoIf we trusted decency, we wouldn't have the Mount Everest trash problem in the first place...
- jojobas 3y agoEveryone has to carry out a fair bit more to break even, including the 4-5 poor buggers who die on Mt. Everest every year (and all their trash).
- lostlogin 3y agoThis has the same issue as the proposed ‘no older than 15 years’ rule. It costs money. It’s hard to get past how cheap it is to just dump a car and buy a 20 year old one. Externalise those costs, what could go wrong?
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago>It costs money. One of the benefits of not having a local car industry is you can tax the hell out of cars without much protest.
- stupido123 3y ago[flagged]
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y agoIt's a nice idea, but as the article states: >Located between Hawaii and New Zealand, over 3,000km east of Brisbane, Tonga's archipelago of islands is an expensive place to send a car. >Once a vehicle gets here, it's used for a long time. So basically you're making cars even more expensive, which will be an unpopular move with the locals, I assume. I wonder if it would be possible to use old cars and other trash to reclaim land from the ocean?
- olalonde 3y agoIs it not economically viable to melt the cars for steel? Or is there not enough demand for steel in Tonga that the steel would need to be shipped abroad anyways?
- justrealist 3y agoIt's an island chain of 100,000 people, so no. Plus, electricity is extremely expensive, importing the fuel to melt down steel would be crazy.
- Semaphor 3y ago> Plus, electricity is extremely expensive I was wondering how much, and, wow: > The December 2022 review indicated that the electricity tariff would decrease from $1.19 per kWh to $1.01 per kWh, effective from the 1st of January 2023. -- http://www.finance.gov.to/node/601 http://www.finance.gov.to/node/601
- google234123 3y agoCalifornia is only half the price of that :/
- Semaphor 3y agoHuh, did not know California has higher prices than what I pay in Germany (0.4€ / $0.43)
- jemmyw 3y agoIslands with a total population of 100k. Lack of demand and probably no machinery to melt and process steel, expensive electricity/power to do that kind of processing, lack of other inputs, and a population without the expertise. Given how remote and small it is it's probably not economic to do anything about the problem.
- tjoff 3y ago
- ck2 3y agoSo many of the problems we've made seem like they could be great fixed by less people instead of more each year. Imagine the next population doubling and all that cost and suffering it will bring.
- Thorrez 3y agoThe population won't double again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_grow...
- shuckles 3y agoThe cure is worse than the disease in that case.
- psunavy03 3y agoDamn all those people living their own lives and doing what fulfills them instead of what you want!
- ks2048 3y agoThe problem is too many cars, not too many people.
- paganel 3y agoThe truth is somewhere in between, as those people don't want to live the "idyllic" Pacific islanders life anymore, they instead want the same ease in transportation as people in the West have got accustomed with decades ago (i.e. cars). And who can blame them?
- paganel 3y agoAnd to think that the neo-malthusian discourse was derided just a few years ago. I'd say that in the last two years or so it has established itself as fact, even though nobody calls it out loud by name (probably because of past negative associations).
- brutusborn 3y ago
- throe37848 3y agoMaybe unpopular opinion: Sort it, burn what you can for electricity, dump rest into deep ocean.
- mngnt 3y agoThis is actually the popular opinion, world wide. It's what we've been doing for decades. And it's terrible. The really unpopular opinion is "let's generate less trash and reuse everything we can, plus slap a recycling tax on everything".
- eimrine 3y agoWhat is the difference between recycling taxes and regular ones?
- ustolemyname 3y agoThis is challenging to answer with the nonspecific, "regular ones?" What, to you, is a "regular tax?" Payroll taxes? Income taxes? Property taxes? Sales taxes? Carbon taxes? Gas taxes? Cigarette taxes? All are as dissimilar to recycling taxes as they are to each other.
- anticensor 3y agoThey mean direct taxes, as opposed to indirect ones.
- mngnt 3y agoI would envision it as a money that don't go to the general pile of tax-raised money which becomes the country's government budget, but be kept separate and be used for investments in recycling and environemtn protection. I am not a lawyer and have no idea if this is a thing anywhere, but it seems so logical. You raise money off an ecological problem and use them, directly, to solve the ecological problem (and others).
- 3y ago
- nomilk 3y agoI hadn't realised just how small Tonga's land area is. Imagine a square 30km x 30km. It's smaller than that (747 square km). But this table of countries ranked by population densities shows Tonga is not even close to the most densely populated countries (Tonga is about 65th of about 200 countries): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...
- refactor_master 3y agoIt’s strange how bikes haven’t caught on. Similar to Malta, which is tiny and heavily urbanized, but has a massive car problem. 30 km is what some people commute on bike daily.
- silisili 3y agoSame thought. The other commenter posted the largest island is roughly 100 sq mi. This could easily be serviced with bikes, scooters/mopeds, or cheap sidecar motorbike taxis like they use in other countries.
- devoutsalsa 3y agoWhen I was living in America, I'd drive 300m to the grocery store because I could, so I understand the feeling. I'm also sure it's hot & humid much of the time, which makes walking & biking a sweaty affair.
- k99x55 3y agoSo you need a 3 ton machine to avoid sweating? Shades and trees are cheap to install and maintain, not to mention the wind whilst riding which gives you a nice cooling effect. The only reason you do not have shading+trees around roads is because they are removed in name of "traffic flow".
- devoutsalsa 3y agoHave you ever tried to carry an air conditioner? When you include the power source, it’s really heavy. Do you think someone who drives 300m is capable of carrying that kind of weight? I suppose I could carry a car door and just roll down the window.
- IamAzmat 3y agoThey should crush and press them into a small box size, :)
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- fswd 3y agothis isn't that big of a deal. People do this on purpose. Collect cars, wait until the price of steel goes up, and bring in a moble crusher and truck them out to a port. It's pretty common practice. If you play your cards right, you can make money. It's only 8 acres. I've seen 40+ acres full of cars, which were crushed in a few days with a special machine.
- Tepix 3y agoThese people have lived sustainably for hundreds of years. Clearly, our "modern society" is inferior.
- glimshe 3y agoWith a fairly low life expectancy, unfortunately. How can we live 70+ years while living sustainably? I'm sure we can do it, but we haven't sorted that out yet, maybe the long-living Mediterranean communities will offer a clue.
- somedude895 3y agoIt's being studied https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone
- Tepix 3y agoGood point. We need to keep the good stuff and get rid of the single use plastics and other aberrations that put profits over sustainability.