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Do you also blame the ones who refined the metal that went into making the plane and bombs and the electronics within? What about the rivets and bolts and hinge

Do you also blame the ones who refined the metal that went into making the plane and bombs and the electronics within? What about the rivets and bolts and hinges that were part of the bomb release mechanism? The crew of Enola Gay were as much a cog in the machine as anyone else. If they refused the order to deploy the weapons, other people will. Everyone contributes to history, including your grandparents or great grandparents who quite definitely participated in the economy. Even the idea of deploying nuclear weapons were justified with the idea that it will save more American and Japanese lives should a ground operation be conducted. Blaming anything or anyone for events of history is short sighted.

ada1981 3y ago
“ Blaming anything or anyone for events of history is short sighted.” Surely you don’t mean that no one is responsible for anything that has happened?
- sambazi 3y ago
  i think he means that someone else would have done it
  - firebat45 3y ago
    This is a WW2 topic so I feel okay with invoking Godwin's Law: This is the same excuse many Germans that took part in the concentration camps used. Turns out, still doesn't make genocide okay.
    - adventured 3y ago
      Killing the Empire of Japan's war machine through bombing the culture (which is actually what was occurring) into submission was in fact more than okay: it was necessary and moral. They started massive wars of conquest across Asia (the likes of which are impossible to relate to for today's generations), butchered countless millions of people in the process, allied with Nazi Germany (!), committed even worse atrocities than the Nazis, and still refused to surrender even after being nuked once (with a large political & military contingent holding out even after the second nuke). It required total war to stop them, and that obviously includes decimating their infrastructure, manufacturing, and the citizens that were responsible for manufacturing weapons (which had commonly been shifted out of large factories and dispersed into neighborhoods at smaller scale).
      - sambazi 3y ago
        i suppose you're right, thou i can imagine a world in which the allies lost the war, concentration camps were "necessary" and the bombs were "not ok"
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
carlosjobim 3y ago
Every single person is responsible for their own voluntary actions. There is no sophistry and no amount of lies stacked on each other that can take away that responsibility.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  The issue isn't whether everyone is responsible for their own actions, it's with who feels qualified to pass judgment on other people.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    Everybody is qualified to do that, with very few exceptions.
    - karaterobot 3y ago
      Ahh, I believe the opposite is true. I rarely feel qualified to condemn other people, though there are occasional exceptions, scoped to very specific circumstances. If you mean "capable" of passing judgment I'd agree with you, because everybody does that, if only unconsciously. But qualified? That's hard to believe.
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        Yes, qualified. You don't need to be free from sin to say that it is wrong to nuke a city. You don't need to nuke a city yourself to know how the experience feels like, before passing judgement on those who do nuke cities.
leoh 3y ago
>Do you also blame the ones who refined the metal that went into making the plane and bombs and the electronics within? Yes. We live in a perverted world. There are harmful activities such as murder which most of us condone. It is a tragedy that there are enough of us that would disavow the manufacture of munitions.
- irrational 3y ago
  Most of us condone murder? That doesn’t sound right. Are you missing a “do not”?
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    No. I think leoh is equating war with murder. I think leoh's point is wrong. But if you're going to disagree, at least start with recognizing what the actual point is.
- Retric 3y ago
  Tell that to people living in Ukraine. Most wars are started by an aggressor not mutual agreement. Having no weapons to defend yourself doesn’t help, look at Polish casualties from WWII vs how much they suffered from losing.

ada1981 3y ago

“ Blaming anything or anyone for events of history is short sighted.” Surely you don’t mean that no one is responsible for anything that has happened?

sambazi 3y ago
i think he means that someone else would have done it
- firebat45 3y ago
  This is a WW2 topic so I feel okay with invoking Godwin's Law: This is the same excuse many Germans that took part in the concentration camps used. Turns out, still doesn't make genocide okay.
  - adventured 3y ago
    Killing the Empire of Japan's war machine through bombing the culture (which is actually what was occurring) into submission was in fact more than okay: it was necessary and moral. They started massive wars of conquest across Asia (the likes of which are impossible to relate to for today's generations), butchered countless millions of people in the process, allied with Nazi Germany (!), committed even worse atrocities than the Nazis, and still refused to surrender even after being nuked once (with a large political & military contingent holding out even after the second nuke). It required total war to stop them, and that obviously includes decimating their infrastructure, manufacturing, and the citizens that were responsible for manufacturing weapons (which had commonly been shifted out of large factories and dispersed into neighborhoods at smaller scale).
    - sambazi 3y ago
      i suppose you're right, thou i can imagine a world in which the allies lost the war, concentration camps were "necessary" and the bombs were "not ok"
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

carlosjobim 3y ago

Every single person is responsible for their own voluntary actions. There is no sophistry and no amount of lies stacked on each other that can take away that responsibility.

karaterobot 3y ago
The issue isn't whether everyone is responsible for their own actions, it's with who feels qualified to pass judgment on other people.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Everybody is qualified to do that, with very few exceptions.
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    Ahh, I believe the opposite is true. I rarely feel qualified to condemn other people, though there are occasional exceptions, scoped to very specific circumstances. If you mean "capable" of passing judgment I'd agree with you, because everybody does that, if only unconsciously. But qualified? That's hard to believe.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      Yes, qualified. You don't need to be free from sin to say that it is wrong to nuke a city. You don't need to nuke a city yourself to know how the experience feels like, before passing judgement on those who do nuke cities.

leoh 3y ago

>Do you also blame the ones who refined the metal that went into making the plane and bombs and the electronics within? Yes. We live in a perverted world. There are harmful activities such as murder which most of us condone. It is a tragedy that there are enough of us that would disavow the manufacture of munitions.

irrational 3y ago
Most of us condone murder? That doesn’t sound right. Are you missing a “do not”?
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  No. I think leoh is equating war with murder. I think leoh's point is wrong. But if you're going to disagree, at least start with recognizing what the actual point is.
Retric 3y ago
Tell that to people living in Ukraine. Most wars are started by an aggressor not mutual agreement. Having no weapons to defend yourself doesn’t help, look at Polish casualties from WWII vs how much they suffered from losing.