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The solution for too much traffic is well known and independent of robotaxis. "Road Pricing" means that vehicles pay for driving on congested roads. The price
by BurningFrog 3y ago
The solution for too much traffic is well known and independent of robotaxis.
"Road Pricing" means that vehicles pay for driving on congested roads. The price is set so that road supply and demand match, and traffic flows optimally. It also gives the road owner an income for providing important roads.
- brutusborn 3y agoDo you know of any good implementations of this system?
- loandbehold 3y agoSingapore?
- quietthrow 3y agoMore like “Singapore!”
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoSingapore taxis have a 25% up rate charge during rush hour, but they are still very affordable.
- MBCook 3y agoDoesn’t London have a congestion tax that has helped?
- pj_mukh 3y agoInteresting, this reads like a Land Value tax but for roads. I like it,
- brutusborn 3y agoI think that is an excellent comparison. The most congested roads often coincide with the most valuable land in city centres, so charging users (public roads) or owners (private toll roads) based on local land value could be useful. It is also advantageous in that it would be progressive.
- quietthrow 3y agoBingo! Singapore has solved this extremely effectively. Note that the solution is not just on demand pricing but also having good transportation infrastructure that actually is usable and is a viable alternative. Bay Area has addressed it to some degree but I would not call it solved by any means. They have dynamic pricing which ensure you can pay to go faster during peak times. This is mostly a solution for rich people who can afford the $15-20 tolls one way on 101 but in a pinch the common person may be able to use by paying money. However the US just has no decent public transportation infrastructure that can be relied on a daily basis to live your life normally due to legalized bribery (lobbying) by the by the car companies during the earlier years.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoSingapore also has very expensive car purchase taxes and gas taxes. Yet, taxis in the city state are still incredibly affordable compared to USA prices, which doesn’t bode well for dissuading robo taxies over there. https://www.introducingsingapore.com/taxi#:~:text=With%20some%20accessible%20prices%2C%20taking,SGD%20(%20US%24%207.30) https://www.introducingsingapore.com/taxi#:~:text=With%20som....
- tim333 3y agoSingapore being Singapore will probably have some sensible way to price the robo taxis
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIf the robo taxies aren't cheaper than normal taxies, they simply aren't going to be used. The fact that taxies are so cheap in Singapore already makes me think that robo taxies aren't even needed (is labor really so cheap there?).
- tim333 3y ago"The average taxi driver salary in Singapore is S$24,900 per year or S$10.88" according to random googling. Having been there one of the big problems with normal taxis is that there aren't a huge number so if it starts raining only about 10% of people wanting one get one. Not sure if robos would help there.
- toast0 3y ago> The solution for too much traffic is well known and independent of robotaxis. Yeah, but people don't like it when we have economic downturns or forced migration.
- mike_d 3y agoThis already exists in the form of a gas tax and road use taxes (registration). NIMBYs get in the way of building the lanes that already have demand and funding. Extending it further really just ends up as a restriction on the movements of the poor.
- ufo 3y agoI think the parent poster is talking about fees that are proportional to congestion, to disincentivize driving during rush hour.
- mike_d 3y agoThe Bay Area does this with carpool lanes. The electronic billboard says $12 and you see a nonstop stream of Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, etc. and tech company busses. All it does is force the poor to sit in traffic while some lanes are reserved for people to whom $12 is inconsequential. I fail to see how applying this same logic to an entire road makes it any better.
- BurningFrog 3y agoThe benefit comes when prices reach the level where traffic flows at full speed. This increases the traffic throughput by maybe 5x, which makes the road much more useful.
- mike_d 3y ago> The benefit comes when prices reach the level where traffic flows at full speed. How then does your gardener get his truck to your house? Your DoorDash driver? The elderly woman on a fixed income who needs to get to her doctors appointment? Roads cannot be the domain of the rich. (Also please don't pretend that public transport is even remotely viable in the US)
- BurningFrog 3y agoYou assume it will be very expensive. I don't think so, but we'd have to implement it to know the levels. For many errands, people can avoid rush hours, which may not even need road pricing. I'll note that all your "poor" examples own a car.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y agoIt needs to be based on the number of passengers, though. 3 people in the car should be free in all circumstances. 2 people in the car should be free sometimes, but pay a very small fee when the road is very congested. 1 person should always pay a fee. Sometimes small, sometimes large, depending on traffic. 0 people in the car (in the case of autonomous cars) should always pay a phat fee. This is the only thing that will prevent driverless cars from ruining our awesome road infrastructure in America. If we don't do this, driverless taxi companies will have cars polluting and congesting every public road trying to be capture a ride until they're clogged and useless.
- lancewiggs 3y ago3 people in a car is not at all efficient compared to busses, trains and bicycles, so there should be no real reason to reward that behaviour.