17 ms·

I wonder how apples latest iPhone gaming reveal affects these plans. If the iPhone can play raytraced games, then why would someone want to stream the game in t

I wonder how apples latest iPhone gaming reveal affects these plans. If the iPhone can play raytraced games, then why would someone want to stream the game in the first place? It’s probably still too little too late, but apples latest metal conversion tool and iPhone event have me hopeful about gaming on apple devices.

rudedogg 3y ago
I think it’s sad they haven’t released a successor to SpriteKit/SceneKit. RealityKit looks promising at first glance, but it’s definitely AR first, and has some odd limitations like no tvOS. Like your reply hints, their strategy seems to have shifted to making it easier to port games from other platforms rather than build them on Apple’s.
hayst4ck 3y ago
Streaming is fantastic. It means there is an indirect reference between the display of the game, and the running of the game. It means you can play max quality games on a $200 chromebook. The game can be running in the same rack as the server. Visual/input lag is a different type of lag than game client/server lag, I'm not sure which one will win the long haul. As fiber is being installed into more residences, streaming becomes an even better prospect. I would much rather be vendor locked into steam than into the xbox, play station, or ios stores. Steam still has execs that think about more than next quarters profits, they aren't trying to bleed their cash cow dry like most other companies seem to be doing. From a monetary point of view $10 a month with no contract is more appealing than $500 or even $3000 every several years. It definitely seems like there are many economies of scale wins to be had via centralization. Apple also failed to create a marketplace culture. IOS gaming is synonymous with "pay to win". Good games just aren't put on those devices with the exception, maybe, of riot's games and pc ports. I would be worried about Apple's "lets make money off kids gambling" culture, that is absolutely pervasive in mobile gaming, becoming more pervasive due to cross pollination. Apple is generally a benevolent dictator, but when it comes to mobile games they are a slum lord.
- nvy 3y ago
  >Streaming is fantastic. Streaming is awful. It perpetuates the idea that you pay for a thing but don't own it. It creates more incentives for ongoing monetization (to support the streaming infra) like in-game ads and loot boxes with paid keys. It introduces horrendous input lag that fluctuates based on network conditions and it means there's yet another probably buggy layer of abstraction between the game and the player. (edit: and you can't play on LAN!) Unless you're playing Yahtzee, streaming delivers a suboptimal gaming experience.
  - tommek4077 3y ago
    Yes, and too many people still think bandwidth equals good latency. It does not!
    - chrisweekly 3y ago
      Agreed - including many who should really know better. https://hpbn.com https://hpbn.com is an excellent resource to refresh or learn practical networking fundamentals.
      - curtisblaine 3y ago
        It is... a domain for sale?
        hayst4ck 3y ago
        They probably meant this: https://hpbn.co/ https://hpbn.co/ but added the "m" by accident.
        chrisweekly 3y ago
        yes, thank you, whoops! (too late to edit)
      - chrisweekly 3y ago
ksec 3y ago
>I wonder how apples latest iPhone gaming reveal affects these plans. Likely nothing. Forget about Raytracing, the tech. But RayTracing as in better Graphics. iPhone has been able to output very decent graphics for games for quite some time. Arguably since Unreal Engine Game running on iPhone, and if I remember correctly that was Infinity Blade. And yet the market for hard core games on Smartphone is just not there. To the point where there are very little overlap between Smartphone Gaming and PC / Console. And if anything the small market of Console Games wanted on Smartphone may be much better served by Cloud Streaming. Edit: Also worth mentioning the constant iOS changes means developers have very little incentive to keep updating their game over a long period of time.
- postalrat 3y ago
  Who wants to download 40gb to their phone to play a single game. Or who wants their saves and profiles different on their phone.
  - catchnear4321 3y ago
    phones have 5g, wifi6, and hundreds of gb to tb of space. 40gb is nothing. if connectivity is a concern, it is also a justification. save profiles can go back up to the cloud, where the download came from. now those that want to use a different device can do so. who thinks this much about what have become minor details?
    - nojvek 3y ago
      Phones have tb of space? IPhones start with 128GB of space and charges a hefty premium for storage. I would deffo not want a game to consume 40G of space
      - catchnear4321 3y ago
        yes, you can configure the pro max to 1tb. if you buy the smallest configuration storage, you will have to care more. that’s the choice.
rkangel 3y ago
A lot of these discussions seem to be ignoring control inputs. Many, many games only work well when you have an analogue stick and ideally some physical buttons. On-screen controls just aren't the same. A lot of the technology has a lot of potential but I don't know how you get past that hurdle to broaden iPhone gaming.
- acdha 3y ago
  Haven’t they supported controllers for years? https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/connect-a-game-controller-iph9d38dd45f/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/connect-a-game-contro...
simonebrunozzi 3y ago
IMHO, Apple needs gaming to push adoption for Vision Pro, among other things. The latest iPhone event seems to confirm this direction.

rudedogg 3y ago

I think it’s sad they haven’t released a successor to SpriteKit/SceneKit. RealityKit looks promising at first glance, but it’s definitely AR first, and has some odd limitations like no tvOS. Like your reply hints, their strategy seems to have shifted to making it easier to port games from other platforms rather than build them on Apple’s.

hayst4ck 3y ago

Streaming is fantastic. It means there is an indirect reference between the display of the game, and the running of the game. It means you can play max quality games on a $200 chromebook. The game can be running in the same rack as the server. Visual/input lag is a different type of lag than game client/server lag, I'm not sure which one will win the long haul. As fiber is being installed into more residences, streaming becomes an even better prospect. I would much rather be vendor locked into steam than into the xbox, play station, or ios stores. Steam still has execs that think about more than next quarters profits, they aren't trying to bleed their cash cow dry like most other companies seem to be doing. From a monetary point of view $10 a month with no contract is more appealing than $500 or even $3000 every several years. It definitely seems like there are many economies of scale wins to be had via centralization. Apple also failed to create a marketplace culture. IOS gaming is synonymous with "pay to win". Good games just aren't put on those devices with the exception, maybe, of riot's games and pc ports. I would be worried about Apple's "lets make money off kids gambling" culture, that is absolutely pervasive in mobile gaming, becoming more pervasive due to cross pollination. Apple is generally a benevolent dictator, but when it comes to mobile games they are a slum lord.

nvy 3y ago
>Streaming is fantastic. Streaming is awful. It perpetuates the idea that you pay for a thing but don't own it. It creates more incentives for ongoing monetization (to support the streaming infra) like in-game ads and loot boxes with paid keys. It introduces horrendous input lag that fluctuates based on network conditions and it means there's yet another probably buggy layer of abstraction between the game and the player. (edit: and you can't play on LAN!) Unless you're playing Yahtzee, streaming delivers a suboptimal gaming experience.
- tommek4077 3y ago
  Yes, and too many people still think bandwidth equals good latency. It does not!
  - chrisweekly 3y ago
    Agreed - including many who should really know better. https://hpbn.com https://hpbn.com is an excellent resource to refresh or learn practical networking fundamentals.
    - curtisblaine 3y ago
      It is... a domain for sale?
      - hayst4ck 3y ago
        They probably meant this: https://hpbn.co/ https://hpbn.co/ but added the "m" by accident.
        chrisweekly 3y ago
        yes, thank you, whoops! (too late to edit)
    - chrisweekly 3y ago

ksec 3y ago

>I wonder how apples latest iPhone gaming reveal affects these plans. Likely nothing. Forget about Raytracing, the tech. But RayTracing as in better Graphics. iPhone has been able to output very decent graphics for games for quite some time. Arguably since Unreal Engine Game running on iPhone, and if I remember correctly that was Infinity Blade. And yet the market for hard core games on Smartphone is just not there. To the point where there are very little overlap between Smartphone Gaming and PC / Console. And if anything the small market of Console Games wanted on Smartphone may be much better served by Cloud Streaming. Edit: Also worth mentioning the constant iOS changes means developers have very little incentive to keep updating their game over a long period of time.

postalrat 3y ago
Who wants to download 40gb to their phone to play a single game. Or who wants their saves and profiles different on their phone.
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  phones have 5g, wifi6, and hundreds of gb to tb of space. 40gb is nothing. if connectivity is a concern, it is also a justification. save profiles can go back up to the cloud, where the download came from. now those that want to use a different device can do so. who thinks this much about what have become minor details?
  - nojvek 3y ago
    Phones have tb of space? IPhones start with 128GB of space and charges a hefty premium for storage. I would deffo not want a game to consume 40G of space
    - catchnear4321 3y ago
      yes, you can configure the pro max to 1tb. if you buy the smallest configuration storage, you will have to care more. that’s the choice.

rkangel 3y ago

A lot of these discussions seem to be ignoring control inputs. Many, many games only work well when you have an analogue stick and ideally some physical buttons. On-screen controls just aren't the same. A lot of the technology has a lot of potential but I don't know how you get past that hurdle to broaden iPhone gaming.

acdha 3y ago
Haven’t they supported controllers for years? https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/connect-a-game-controller-iph9d38dd45f/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/connect-a-game-contro...

simonebrunozzi 3y ago

IMHO, Apple needs gaming to push adoption for Vision Pro, among other things. The latest iPhone event seems to confirm this direction.