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Clearly, the engineer should print out the whole paper trail. And the lesson learned is to let people write their lies into documents and not do it for them.
by wirrbel 3y ago
Clearly, the engineer should print out the whole paper trail.
And the lesson learned is to let people write their lies into documents and not do it for them.
- closewith 3y agoThe OP isn't an engineer, but this really highlights the difference between real engineers and software developers who like to pretend they're engineering. If the OP was an engineer, the answer would be lose their license and never work again in the field.
- Dylan16807 3y ago> If the OP was an engineer, the answer would be lose their license and never work again in the field. Even for documents that their name isn't on?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- closewith 3y agoTo reply to a now deleted comment, I do believe in software engineering. It's just clear that the OP is not engaging in it.
- gremlinunderway 3y agoYeah unfortunately you can chalk this up to the early 90s obsession with libertarianism and anti-regulation. Establishing strong regulatory bodies would be and continues to be antithetical to the Silicon Valley Ayn Randian obsessed cult of free marketers. Regulatory bodies in the past were setup ultimately by government legislation (though typically run arms-length or fully independently thereafter), and until government starts actually taking these things seriously no software developer will ever be an "engineer" unless there are actual licensing and standards by authoritative bodies.
- gaganyaan 3y agoThis sort of snobbery is pretty silly. Do you think engineers didn't exist throughout all of history until someone decided to start handing out pieces of paper?
- tamimio 3y agoWriting a piece of code after a bootcamp isn’t engineering, and being the technical guy will not make you an engineer either, for starters, you learn engineering ethics in the engineering disciplines, and he (or she) would know what to do in that situation. What OP pulled will rarely ever happen in civil/electrical engineering because they can report that and revoke the company license.
- closewith 3y agoIt’s neither snobbery nor silly. Do you slavishly adhere to the etymological definitions of all the terms that you use? If so, the OP is still not an engineer unless he’s writing software for weapons. In the end, anyone lying to their client about the standards their software adheres to is not undertaking engineering.
- gaganyaan 3y agoYeah sorry, it's silly. Use the term "licensed engineer" or something. Don't come up with new definitions for words and then get offended when people point out that you're being silly.
- closewith 3y ago> Don't come up with new definitions for words and then get offended when people point out that you're being silly. I think some introspection may be required here.
- gaganyaan 3y agoI think you don't understand what you just quoted. But yes, you should introspect about why you're being silly about trying to redefine a word and then getting offended over it.
- theptip 3y agoYou don’t get to force your preferred definition of the word “engineer” onto the world. Even less act like it’s obvious that it must be that way.
- closewith 3y agoI think you’ll find outside of a tiny niche, it is the standard definition across the world. As I said to another commenter, maybe some introspection is required here.
- gaganyaan 3y agoYou should probably understand how the term is used worldwide before arguing about it on the internet.
- toast0 3y agoOf course they're not an engineer. They're writing software, not feeding and managing a boiler hurtling down the tracks. Not sure you need a license to do that either.
- Matthias247 3y agoWhat difference would it make? Any "real engineer" (of whatever you definition you might have of that) will also find themselves being in a shitty position in this situation, which is somewhere between getting fired, voluntarily leaving, living with ethic concerns, being a whistleblower, or finding a compromise that isn't great but maybe acceptable for them. FWIW, I would consider myself a "real engineer" (because that's exactly the title that was granted to me by my university and country. And there's nothing I ever could have done to become a "more real engineer"). And I could see myself exactly in the same situation if I worked for a bad company. In that case I would have no idea how my title would help me.
- closewith 3y agoReal engineers accept the moral and ethical responsibilities associated with the title, and accept the consequences of failing to do so. The concrete difference is evident in this post and these comments. A real engineer, including a real software engineer, would understand their responsibilities and the question in the OP would be moot. > In that case I would have no idea how my title would help me. Well, yes, because for you (unlike the majority of the world) engineer is just a title.
- ryandrake 3y agoExactly. The situation in the the article would not have happened if the OP had the ethical foundation that comes with actual Engineering education and training. He would have simply refused to lie because 1. Lying is wrong and 2. It would put his future employability in question. This chucklehead lied and is now panicking, pointing fingers and making excuses. A single class in Ethics could have prevented this.
- bradfa 3y agoYes. This. In my past in situations like this I have given the sales team the line “I can answer truthfully or you can write your own answer to the customer.”