5 ms·

Yeah, I will check back and see how you feel in a few years after all the dev jobs have been farmed out overseas to somewhere like Nigeria.

klipklop 3y ago
If they could have done that, they would have already done so.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  That they couldn't do it in the past doesn't mean they can't in the present or future. Throw a little AI into your offshoring and domestic software development is going to take a hit.
filereaper 3y ago
They said the same thing in the 90s about getting Bangalored. Yet all the FAANGs and other startups are still headquartered in the US.
- ThrowawayR2 3y ago
  Did you know that "Made in Japan" and "Made in Taiwan" used to be a mark of cheaply and badly made junk only a few decades ago? Back then, Americans were pretty confident that the United States would remain dominant in manufacturing indefinitely, particularly in at the time high-tech stuff like electronics and automotive manufacturing, and that other countries would have a hard time catching up. What a difference a few decades makes...
  - hhh 3y ago
    I’ve only heard made in Japan being a positive from people who were alive when it was made there in the 80s.
    - mortenjorck 3y ago
      “A few decades ago” is understating it, but talk to some Boomers and you’ll hear a different story from the late 1950s / early 1960s. The Japanese Miracle had already happened by the era of the Walkman.
      - nonethewiser 3y ago
        I remember a Japanese guest visiting and showing us his cam corder with a flip out display. Early 90s probably. Dont think we had them, or at least id never seen them. Was like someone coming from the future.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - unsupp0rted 3y ago
    Lots of jokes from tv shows at the time about shoddy Japanese-made cars. Then in the early 2000s about shoddy American-made ones.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    I think the biggest moat is time zone. There are lots of skilled english speaking devs who would LOVE to make 60k USD.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  https://www.detroitnews.com/gcdn/-mm-/ce119a8a71503abd51e609cd5bebb6b8349b86ef/c=16-0-341-430/local/-/media/DetroitNews/2014/10/01/buwilliamsuawmembership1001142.jpg https://www.detroitnews.com/gcdn/-mm-/ce119a8a71503abd51e609...
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Thats a bold statement to make when virtually all manufacturing industries have deserted the US
  - magicalist 3y ago
    ...but that's not something that happened?
itiro 3y ago
“We’ll take our ball and go play somewhere else” is an empty threat. 300+ million people don’t just vanish because CEOs move their companies. The leverage they have is politically manipulated fiat money traditions. The leverage the public has is experience doing all the work. Ignore the mathematical minority when they cry about gen pop and keep doing the work. Corporates real role in civic life is distract people from marching on their state capital. They’ll play it because there is no moat against tens of millions with lots of guns.
- throwaw1yyy 3y ago
  No matter how morally right one side might feel, it won’t stop competition. The USA and Detroit had unions and the industry and city became gutted. Tariff and import laws to stay afloat only go so far. There will be times industry will be gutted because there’s something better. Hollywood seems poised to lose itself - whether AI, moral grandstanding, or strange rules with skin color quotas. The writers strike is going poorly, the general American populace has no sympathy for them, and the big money maker of super hero movies is losing steam.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    > the general American populace has no sympathy for them 71% of Americans support unions, the highest level of support in history. Support among under 30s is ~88%. https://newrepublic.com/post/175274/gallup-poll-two-thirds-americans-support-unions https://newrepublic.com/post/175274/gallup-poll-two-thirds-a... ("Poll: Majority of Americans Support Unions and Support Strikes") https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/07/27/americans-support-strikes-hollywood-writers-actors https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20... ("Most Americans support strikes by Hollywood writers and actors")
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      That 71% figure comes from AFL-CIO which is a federation of labor unions. As your link shows, Gallop showed 67% and a decrease between support YOY. Its higher than a long term average of 62% and lower than all time high of 75% following WW2 when unions were in their heyday.
Guvante 3y ago
The median salary for Software Engineers in San Francisco is $175k. The median salary for a remote Software Engineer from Nigeria is $57k. Unions are not going to change the math on whether we outsource to other countries.
- UberFly 3y ago
  Not sure how a cost increase doesn't factor in just because there is already a large cost divide.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Not just a cost increase but threats of strike and having to work with the union instead of hiring directly.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Unions lead to cost increases VERY reliably
  - Guvante 3y ago
    13% is what it costs in the US. I don't think an extra 20k a person changes the math. And honestly I doubt the median number would shift too much. Most unions focus on the low end of the pay scale for the majority of their changes.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
semiquaver 3y ago
Managers can’t even handle the lack of perceived control from letting employees work from home three days a week. People have been saying this for decades now, meanwhile the number of well paid software jobs has grown tremendously the entire time. What do you think has changed that will reverse this trend in the next few years?

klipklop 3y ago

If they could have done that, they would have already done so.

WillPostForFood 3y ago
That they couldn't do it in the past doesn't mean they can't in the present or future. Throw a little AI into your offshoring and domestic software development is going to take a hit.

filereaper 3y ago

They said the same thing in the 90s about getting Bangalored. Yet all the FAANGs and other startups are still headquartered in the US.

ThrowawayR2 3y ago
Did you know that "Made in Japan" and "Made in Taiwan" used to be a mark of cheaply and badly made junk only a few decades ago? Back then, Americans were pretty confident that the United States would remain dominant in manufacturing indefinitely, particularly in at the time high-tech stuff like electronics and automotive manufacturing, and that other countries would have a hard time catching up. What a difference a few decades makes...
- hhh 3y ago
  I’ve only heard made in Japan being a positive from people who were alive when it was made there in the 80s.
  - mortenjorck 3y ago
    “A few decades ago” is understating it, but talk to some Boomers and you’ll hear a different story from the late 1950s / early 1960s. The Japanese Miracle had already happened by the era of the Walkman.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      I remember a Japanese guest visiting and showing us his cam corder with a flip out display. Early 90s probably. Dont think we had them, or at least id never seen them. Was like someone coming from the future.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  Lots of jokes from tv shows at the time about shoddy Japanese-made cars. Then in the early 2000s about shoddy American-made ones.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  I think the biggest moat is time zone. There are lots of skilled english speaking devs who would LOVE to make 60k USD.
WillPostForFood 3y ago
https://www.detroitnews.com/gcdn/-mm-/ce119a8a71503abd51e609cd5bebb6b8349b86ef/c=16-0-341-430/local/-/media/DetroitNews/2014/10/01/buwilliamsuawmembership1001142.jpg https://www.detroitnews.com/gcdn/-mm-/ce119a8a71503abd51e609...
ekianjo 3y ago
Thats a bold statement to make when virtually all manufacturing industries have deserted the US
- magicalist 3y ago
  ...but that's not something that happened?

itiro 3y ago

“We’ll take our ball and go play somewhere else” is an empty threat. 300+ million people don’t just vanish because CEOs move their companies. The leverage they have is politically manipulated fiat money traditions. The leverage the public has is experience doing all the work. Ignore the mathematical minority when they cry about gen pop and keep doing the work. Corporates real role in civic life is distract people from marching on their state capital. They’ll play it because there is no moat against tens of millions with lots of guns.

throwaw1yyy 3y ago
No matter how morally right one side might feel, it won’t stop competition. The USA and Detroit had unions and the industry and city became gutted. Tariff and import laws to stay afloat only go so far. There will be times industry will be gutted because there’s something better. Hollywood seems poised to lose itself - whether AI, moral grandstanding, or strange rules with skin color quotas. The writers strike is going poorly, the general American populace has no sympathy for them, and the big money maker of super hero movies is losing steam.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  > the general American populace has no sympathy for them 71% of Americans support unions, the highest level of support in history. Support among under 30s is ~88%. https://newrepublic.com/post/175274/gallup-poll-two-thirds-americans-support-unions https://newrepublic.com/post/175274/gallup-poll-two-thirds-a... ("Poll: Majority of Americans Support Unions and Support Strikes") https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/07/27/americans-support-strikes-hollywood-writers-actors https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20... ("Most Americans support strikes by Hollywood writers and actors")
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    That 71% figure comes from AFL-CIO which is a federation of labor unions. As your link shows, Gallop showed 67% and a decrease between support YOY. Its higher than a long term average of 62% and lower than all time high of 75% following WW2 when unions were in their heyday.

Guvante 3y ago

The median salary for Software Engineers in San Francisco is $175k. The median salary for a remote Software Engineer from Nigeria is $57k. Unions are not going to change the math on whether we outsource to other countries.

UberFly 3y ago
Not sure how a cost increase doesn't factor in just because there is already a large cost divide.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Not just a cost increase but threats of strike and having to work with the union instead of hiring directly.
ekianjo 3y ago
Unions lead to cost increases VERY reliably
- Guvante 3y ago
  13% is what it costs in the US. I don't think an extra 20k a person changes the math. And honestly I doubt the median number would shift too much. Most unions focus on the low end of the pay scale for the majority of their changes.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

semiquaver 3y ago

Managers can’t even handle the lack of perceived control from letting employees work from home three days a week. People have been saying this for decades now, meanwhile the number of well paid software jobs has grown tremendously the entire time. What do you think has changed that will reverse this trend in the next few years?