9 ms·

> It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable - not sure if it is a data cable, also. This is why USB-C is a user-hostile spec.

oynqr 3y ago
Every compliant charging cable is a data cable.
- knodi123 3y ago
  where "compliant" is circularly defined as "supports charging and data"?
  - mort96 3y ago
    Where "compliant" is defined to mean "does the minimum required by the USB spec and thus is legally allowed to carry the USB logo and call itself a USB cable".
  - crote 3y ago
    No, "compliant" means "follows the specification as published by the USB-IF and has been certified to do so".
    - bick_nyers 3y ago
      Is there a way I can check if a particular cable or company on say Amazon or AliExpress is certified? Obviously those that aren't certified will say they are certified, so if there's like a database of USB-C certifications somewhere that would be super helpful (particularly if it includes all the misc. stuff about USB-C that fall through the cracks like data rate, PD, supported voltages, etc.).
      - notatoad 3y ago
        read the reviews? if a cable doesn't work, it'll get flagged pretty damn quickly. i've bought plenty of dirt cheap USB-C cables off amazon and they've all worked fine. you might get a charge-only cable bundled with some sketchy usb-c accessory. if you do, throw it out. but any standalone cable sold as a cable will do data transfer. the USB-C cables that only carry power and not data is an imaginary problem.
        bick_nyers 3y ago
        Didn't mean to give the impression that I'm worried about USB-C cables that are power only, that is indeed an imaginary problem. It's moreso things like PD, is it 480Mbits or is it 5Gbit or is it 10 or 20 or 40. What's the voltages, does it support PD 2.0 oh wait is it 3.0 or 3.1? To be fair, it's been a number of years since I've tried to purchase cables, so perhaps just grabbing the Anker result at the top will net you most of these features. I just remember having to dig and not getting clear answers one way or another which is the spirit of my question.
        notatoad 3y ago
        i don't have any devices that require 40Gbit, so i can't speak to that. but in my experience, buying the cheapest cable off amazon will reliably give me 20gbit, and will charge all my devices at full speed (i don't know if it's PD2 or 3.0 or 3.1, but i do know that devices pull more power from my 100W charger than my 60W charger) in practice, in my daily life, all USB C cables work the same. a couple years ago i got one bundled with a device that didn't support some feature, and so i put it in the garbage. problem solved. since then, all my cables work all the time in whatever device i plug them into.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Simple solution, don't shop at low tier vendors that will list knockoff products.
      - nrp 3y ago
        Yes: https://www.usb.org/products https://www.usb.org/products
- Bud 3y ago
  [dead]
odensc 3y ago
It's not an issue specific to USB-C. There are also plenty of USB-A/Micro-USB cables that don't have the data pins connected. Typically this is only an issue with super cheap electronics that only use USB-C as a connector for power and don't really follow the spec. I haven't heard of a phone coming with a charge-only cable. Especially because that cable is usually used for syncing to a computer (iOS)/transferring data from an old phone (Android).
- dwaite 3y ago
  USB-C to C cables to spec need the data pins for USB 2 and to support 30W. Beyond that it is cable-specific. Unless an included cable came with a hard disk, monitor or eGPU, you can be reasonably sure it is USB 2 speeds. If it didn’t ship with a computer either, it is probably 30W max.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    60 watts. The baseline is 20 volts at 3 amps.
    - dwaite 3y ago
      Ahh you are right!
- riskable 3y ago
  Even "power" USB C cables can do data transfer. They just do so at USB 2.0 speeds (like a lightning connector would). Finding a truly power-only USB C cable is difficult but not impossible. It's a special order.
  - Telemakhos 3y ago
    I'd love one for the airport, so I didn't have to trust that the public charging points weren't hacking my machines on behalf of the local government or criminal syndicate or whatever.
vel0city 3y ago
This has always been possible with USB, its not anything specific to the USB-C spec. I have several power-only USB cables, in fact I even have a few USB-A to barrel cables.
- astrange 3y ago
  And it's considered a good thing for security, that's why there are "USB condoms" for untrusted charging ports.
crote 3y ago
No, it is not. According to the spec, all C-C cables transfer data, even if only at USB 2.0 speeds. It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies.
- _jal 3y ago
  > It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies Yes it is. The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. That is exactly what standards exist to do. Even if we pretend spec writers wouldn't ever have predicted the proliferation of crappy cables before publishing it, this is not a new problem with USB. It is absolutely a choice made by the USB Implementers Forum.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    They just ignore spec
  - CrazyStat 3y ago
    > The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. And the cheap knockoff brands would have just violated the spec written that way like they violate the current spec.
    - OJFord 3y ago
      I suppose hypothetically you could have data capability built in to the power negotiation pairs, so that it wasn't possible to offer charging without also some amount of data... but quite some complexity to add as a trade-off, not an obvious choice.
      - chipsa 3y ago
        Conveniently, that's actually the case. A USB-C port should provide no power if there's nothing plugged in, and that's sensed by the data connection pairs. However, to support A-C adapters, you can fake it through the normal connection there. This is why some things that have a C port won't charge on a C-C cable, but will on a A-C cable, because they don't actually talk to say they need power, but the A port will provide some power regardless, but a C port won't.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

oynqr 3y ago

Every compliant charging cable is a data cable.

knodi123 3y ago
where "compliant" is circularly defined as "supports charging and data"?
- mort96 3y ago
  Where "compliant" is defined to mean "does the minimum required by the USB spec and thus is legally allowed to carry the USB logo and call itself a USB cable".
- crote 3y ago
  No, "compliant" means "follows the specification as published by the USB-IF and has been certified to do so".
  - bick_nyers 3y ago
    Is there a way I can check if a particular cable or company on say Amazon or AliExpress is certified? Obviously those that aren't certified will say they are certified, so if there's like a database of USB-C certifications somewhere that would be super helpful (particularly if it includes all the misc. stuff about USB-C that fall through the cracks like data rate, PD, supported voltages, etc.).
    - notatoad 3y ago
      read the reviews? if a cable doesn't work, it'll get flagged pretty damn quickly. i've bought plenty of dirt cheap USB-C cables off amazon and they've all worked fine. you might get a charge-only cable bundled with some sketchy usb-c accessory. if you do, throw it out. but any standalone cable sold as a cable will do data transfer. the USB-C cables that only carry power and not data is an imaginary problem.
      - bick_nyers 3y ago
        Didn't mean to give the impression that I'm worried about USB-C cables that are power only, that is indeed an imaginary problem. It's moreso things like PD, is it 480Mbits or is it 5Gbit or is it 10 or 20 or 40. What's the voltages, does it support PD 2.0 oh wait is it 3.0 or 3.1? To be fair, it's been a number of years since I've tried to purchase cables, so perhaps just grabbing the Anker result at the top will net you most of these features. I just remember having to dig and not getting clear answers one way or another which is the spirit of my question.
        notatoad 3y ago
        i don't have any devices that require 40Gbit, so i can't speak to that. but in my experience, buying the cheapest cable off amazon will reliably give me 20gbit, and will charge all my devices at full speed (i don't know if it's PD2 or 3.0 or 3.1, but i do know that devices pull more power from my 100W charger than my 60W charger) in practice, in my daily life, all USB C cables work the same. a couple years ago i got one bundled with a device that didn't support some feature, and so i put it in the garbage. problem solved. since then, all my cables work all the time in whatever device i plug them into.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Simple solution, don't shop at low tier vendors that will list knockoff products.
    - nrp 3y ago
      Yes: https://www.usb.org/products https://www.usb.org/products
Bud 3y ago
[dead]

odensc 3y ago

It's not an issue specific to USB-C. There are also plenty of USB-A/Micro-USB cables that don't have the data pins connected. Typically this is only an issue with super cheap electronics that only use USB-C as a connector for power and don't really follow the spec. I haven't heard of a phone coming with a charge-only cable. Especially because that cable is usually used for syncing to a computer (iOS)/transferring data from an old phone (Android).

dwaite 3y ago
USB-C to C cables to spec need the data pins for USB 2 and to support 30W. Beyond that it is cable-specific. Unless an included cable came with a hard disk, monitor or eGPU, you can be reasonably sure it is USB 2 speeds. If it didn’t ship with a computer either, it is probably 30W max.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  60 watts. The baseline is 20 volts at 3 amps.
  - dwaite 3y ago
    Ahh you are right!
riskable 3y ago
Even "power" USB C cables can do data transfer. They just do so at USB 2.0 speeds (like a lightning connector would). Finding a truly power-only USB C cable is difficult but not impossible. It's a special order.
- Telemakhos 3y ago
  I'd love one for the airport, so I didn't have to trust that the public charging points weren't hacking my machines on behalf of the local government or criminal syndicate or whatever.

vel0city 3y ago

This has always been possible with USB, its not anything specific to the USB-C spec. I have several power-only USB cables, in fact I even have a few USB-A to barrel cables.

astrange 3y ago
And it's considered a good thing for security, that's why there are "USB condoms" for untrusted charging ports.

crote 3y ago

No, it is not. According to the spec, all C-C cables transfer data, even if only at USB 2.0 speeds. It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies.

_jal 3y ago
> It is not the spec's fault that some cheap knockoff brands violate the spec to save a few pennies Yes it is. The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. That is exactly what standards exist to do. Even if we pretend spec writers wouldn't ever have predicted the proliferation of crappy cables before publishing it, this is not a new problem with USB. It is absolutely a choice made by the USB Implementers Forum.
- fomine3 3y ago
  They just ignore spec
- CrazyStat 3y ago
  > The spec could have been written such that different capabilities were reflected with different physical characteristics. And the cheap knockoff brands would have just violated the spec written that way like they violate the current spec.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    I suppose hypothetically you could have data capability built in to the power negotiation pairs, so that it wasn't possible to offer charging without also some amount of data... but quite some complexity to add as a trade-off, not an obvious choice.
    - chipsa 3y ago
      Conveniently, that's actually the case. A USB-C port should provide no power if there's nothing plugged in, and that's sensed by the data connection pairs. However, to support A-C adapters, you can fake it through the normal connection there. This is why some things that have a C port won't charge on a C-C cable, but will on a A-C cable, because they don't actually talk to say they need power, but the A port will provide some power regardless, but a C port won't.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]