5 ms·

You haven't seen the shit I throw in my dishwasher every few nights. Seriously. It is jam-fucking-packed to the gills with the nastiest, filthiest, greasiest cr

You haven't seen the shit I throw in my dishwasher every few nights. Seriously. It is jam-fucking-packed to the gills with the nastiest, filthiest, greasiest crap you can imagine. That it uses only a few litres of water to clean it is a miracle in itself, not to mention the countless hours it's saved me from scrubbing. In my house, the dishwasher is orders of magnitudes more efficient than hand-washing.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
Yeah, you honestly don't even need worry about anything besides the labor efficiency, because that alone is already a big deal. I guess some people just forget that labor saving devices were invented to save labor. Maybe they re-use the same dish over and over, don't bake, and don't cook with any fats or something.
paulcole 3y ago
Interesting. In my house handwashing is orders of magnitude more efficient than using a dishwasher. I guess on average neither is more efficient.
- chongli 3y ago
  Either your dishwasher isn't very good or you aren't using it properly. You should be using powder in both boxes so the prewash cycle and the main cycle can work [1]. Pods? Waste of money! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
  - sitharus 3y ago
    I actually checked this, on the regular (2 hour) cycle my dishwasher just opens the main detergent dispenser immediately. I have no idea why. The one hour cycle actually does a prewash.
- selcuka 3y ago
  Again, what do you mean by "efficient"? I value my time over anything else, so for me handwashing is not efficient at all, unless it takes shorter than loading and unloading the machine.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  The average person uses 4X as much hot water hand washing a full load of dishes compared to a dishwasher. A modern dishwasher uses 3-5 gallons of water per load. Do you use less than a quarter sink worth of water to wash a full dishwasher load of dishes, including rinsing? It's possible, but not easy.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    The major concern with water is hot water use, as that adds a tremendously greater amount of energy to the equation. A typical sink or tub holds ~2--5 gallons filled to the brim, which is rare when dishwashing (1/2 to 3/4 fill is more typical, particularly accounting for displacement by dishes. Rinsing is done with cold water. Options are to fill a second tub (or refill the washing tub after the suds-based wash), passing items under the tap, or using a sprayer hose (the most effective and efficient option in my experience). Total water use is typically less than that used for washing itself. With dishwashers, it's rare that I don't have to further rinse or clean items, so the nominal usage is understating actual usage.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      > With dishwashers, it's rare that I don't have to further rinse or clean items Even when they do, I just leave them for the next cycle. Unless the next cycle was already going to be at capacity, the added water/energy use for re-washing is minimal.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        For me, normally if something didn't get cleaned well it is because the dish either wasn't loaded quite right or it moved in the wash cycle. That improper positioning then preventing the sprayers from really hitting the dirty spots very well.
        dredmorbius 3y ago
        When hand-washing, it's possible to examine the dish or utensil, and scrub harder, let soak, or give a special treatment such as baking soda (tea and coffee stains), ammonia (heavy baked-on grease), oxalic acid ("Barkeeper's Friend") to polish copper or remove some forms of burn, scouring pads (typically plastic, copper or steel wool, may include soap or other chemicals for treating hard-to-remove foods, such as S.O.S or Brillo pads). Dishwashing machine detergent is another option (a little goes a long way, though as the detergent itself dissolves poorly, it's necessary to spread and/or circulate it over dishes where used). Vinegar + baking soda paste is useful for baked-on grease. Chlorine bleach may be used to remove some organic stains or disinfect where needed (this last is rare in my experience), though it should not be combined with ammonia-based products. Knowing what cleaning treatments work and when they're appropriate is another bit of practical knowledge often lost. There's also knowledge of what chemicals not to use together It's also possible to pre-soak specific items, either in the sink or by filling them (e.g., pots and pans) and letting them sit on the sink. Many people self-sabotage cleaning by failing to give the cleaning solution time to work, which can be a few seconds for light soiling to hours for chemical stains or baked-on stains. The automatic dishwasher is also hard on the actual dishes and utensils, in my experience, and tends to pit or damage ceramics, glassware, and stainless-steel or aluminium utensils and pots. And when washing a large number of items, ironically, filled basins to soap and rinse may use less water than multiple dishwasher loads. Though again, when the difference is measured in single-digit gallons (or up to around 20--40 litres), the overall efficiency savings largely pale against other household water usage (bathing, handwashing, laundry, other food prep, etc.). Again, I see no reasonable basis for shaming those who prefer hand-washing. Cycle time and efficacy can be markedly better, total water and energy efficiency are comparable. Machine-washing is more consistent over larger populations (given equivalent equipment), though might degrade with age of the machine. It's mostly a ... wash.
- throw0101b 3y ago
  > In my house handwashing is orders of magnitude more efficient than using a dishwasher. Thank you for your n=1 study/survey. I've seen more than one household run the kitchen faucet at 100% (1-2.2gpm/4-8Lpm) when washing dishes. EnergyStar mandates <20L for a normal cycle.
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  How have you calculated the efficiency?

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago

Yeah, you honestly don't even need worry about anything besides the labor efficiency, because that alone is already a big deal. I guess some people just forget that labor saving devices were invented to save labor. Maybe they re-use the same dish over and over, don't bake, and don't cook with any fats or something.

paulcole 3y ago

Interesting. In my house handwashing is orders of magnitude more efficient than using a dishwasher. I guess on average neither is more efficient.

chongli 3y ago
Either your dishwasher isn't very good or you aren't using it properly. You should be using powder in both boxes so the prewash cycle and the main cycle can work [1]. Pods? Waste of money! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
- sitharus 3y ago
  I actually checked this, on the regular (2 hour) cycle my dishwasher just opens the main detergent dispenser immediately. I have no idea why. The one hour cycle actually does a prewash.
selcuka 3y ago
Again, what do you mean by "efficient"? I value my time over anything else, so for me handwashing is not efficient at all, unless it takes shorter than loading and unloading the machine.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
The average person uses 4X as much hot water hand washing a full load of dishes compared to a dishwasher. A modern dishwasher uses 3-5 gallons of water per load. Do you use less than a quarter sink worth of water to wash a full dishwasher load of dishes, including rinsing? It's possible, but not easy.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  The major concern with water is hot water use, as that adds a tremendously greater amount of energy to the equation. A typical sink or tub holds ~2--5 gallons filled to the brim, which is rare when dishwashing (1/2 to 3/4 fill is more typical, particularly accounting for displacement by dishes. Rinsing is done with cold water. Options are to fill a second tub (or refill the washing tub after the suds-based wash), passing items under the tap, or using a sprayer hose (the most effective and efficient option in my experience). Total water use is typically less than that used for washing itself. With dishwashers, it's rare that I don't have to further rinse or clean items, so the nominal usage is understating actual usage.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    > With dishwashers, it's rare that I don't have to further rinse or clean items Even when they do, I just leave them for the next cycle. Unless the next cycle was already going to be at capacity, the added water/energy use for re-washing is minimal.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      For me, normally if something didn't get cleaned well it is because the dish either wasn't loaded quite right or it moved in the wash cycle. That improper positioning then preventing the sprayers from really hitting the dirty spots very well.
      - dredmorbius 3y ago
        When hand-washing, it's possible to examine the dish or utensil, and scrub harder, let soak, or give a special treatment such as baking soda (tea and coffee stains), ammonia (heavy baked-on grease), oxalic acid ("Barkeeper's Friend") to polish copper or remove some forms of burn, scouring pads (typically plastic, copper or steel wool, may include soap or other chemicals for treating hard-to-remove foods, such as S.O.S or Brillo pads). Dishwashing machine detergent is another option (a little goes a long way, though as the detergent itself dissolves poorly, it's necessary to spread and/or circulate it over dishes where used). Vinegar + baking soda paste is useful for baked-on grease. Chlorine bleach may be used to remove some organic stains or disinfect where needed (this last is rare in my experience), though it should not be combined with ammonia-based products. Knowing what cleaning treatments work and when they're appropriate is another bit of practical knowledge often lost. There's also knowledge of what chemicals not to use together It's also possible to pre-soak specific items, either in the sink or by filling them (e.g., pots and pans) and letting them sit on the sink. Many people self-sabotage cleaning by failing to give the cleaning solution time to work, which can be a few seconds for light soiling to hours for chemical stains or baked-on stains. The automatic dishwasher is also hard on the actual dishes and utensils, in my experience, and tends to pit or damage ceramics, glassware, and stainless-steel or aluminium utensils and pots. And when washing a large number of items, ironically, filled basins to soap and rinse may use less water than multiple dishwasher loads. Though again, when the difference is measured in single-digit gallons (or up to around 20--40 litres), the overall efficiency savings largely pale against other household water usage (bathing, handwashing, laundry, other food prep, etc.). Again, I see no reasonable basis for shaming those who prefer hand-washing. Cycle time and efficacy can be markedly better, total water and energy efficiency are comparable. Machine-washing is more consistent over larger populations (given equivalent equipment), though might degrade with age of the machine. It's mostly a ... wash.
throw0101b 3y ago
> In my house handwashing is orders of magnitude more efficient than using a dishwasher. Thank you for your n=1 study/survey. I've seen more than one household run the kitchen faucet at 100% (1-2.2gpm/4-8Lpm) when washing dishes. EnergyStar mandates <20L for a normal cycle.
pbhjpbhj 3y ago
How have you calculated the efficiency?