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I refuse to call these people "environmentalists" until they provide a list of places they are ok with mining. What they are is just glorified NIMBYs who knee

I refuse to call these people "environmentalists" until they provide a list of places they are ok with mining. What they are is just glorified NIMBYs who knee jerk oppose everything.

midasuni 3y ago
NIMBYS say that things should be built/mined, just not near them.
- lazide 3y ago
  Pretty sure those protestors are driving there in vehicles using mined minerals, fueling them with energy refined and extracted using mined minerals (and likely burning fossil fuels too), etc. If that isn’t saying things should be mined, just not where they can see it, I don’t know what is.
mkoubaa 3y ago
Agree, nobody wants to know or see how the sausage is made, they just want the sausage.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Assumption that EVs are cleaner in a nutshell. To be clear I think EVs are cleaner, but you can’t conclude that from the fact that it doesnt emit while driving. EVs just squeeze the emission event further up the supply chain where a shocking amount of people don’t see it.
  - edude03 3y ago
    They’re more efficient than burning oil and we currently “mine” for oil so I don’t see how that’s not true
davidw 3y ago
Lithium is pretty important in terms of electrifying our economy, which is important for the global environment and climate change - and it's got to come from somewhere. It's also true that mines have a huge track record of getting in, digging stuff up, making money, and then leaving the mess for someone else to clean up. If you look at the satellite map of the area, you see the former Cordero mercury mine: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9221322,-117.8162339,7151m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9221322,-117.8162339,7151m/d... There's a whole report on it here: https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=7029 https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=7029 > The EPA Site Assessment program conducted a Site Inspection in 1988 which recommended no further action. Upon request from the Fort McDermitt Pauite Shoshone Tribe, EPA Emergency Response conducted an additional site visit in November 2009. At that time, EPA was notified of the possibility that mine waste had been used as fill at locations within the town of McDermitt and on the Fort McDermitt Paiute Shoshone Reservation. In other words, they tried to get out of doing any cleanup. Then they found that "well, actually..." there was some cleanup needed. So... it's probably still worth doing because of climate change, but it'd sure be nice to ensure it's done right, and they do right by the people who have always lived there. I imagine the local tribes are also pretty wary of getting screwed, because that is something that has been very much par for the course throughout US history.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  In that case environmentalists should be very much in favor of the mine. Mining in the US is much cleaner than in most other countries so mining it here is not only better for our economy, but for the environment as well. Your example actually is proof of this. It got cleaned up. It wouldn't in most countries.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Australia (where most lithium is being mined ATM) isn’t so far behind on the cleanup side. They are a liberal democracy after all. It isn’t clear to me if they are just getting off easy because they are shipping unrefined lithium ore to China, however.
- 3y ago
nonethewiser 3y ago
Its already holding up different lithum mines in Nevada https://apnews.com/article/business-nevada-plants-climate-and-environment-9df49213286bb886e15b87f81a82351f https://apnews.com/article/business-nevada-plants-climate-an...
- 0xDEF 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - reportingsjr 3y ago
    Maybe massively subsidizing cars that need insane amounts of resource extraction isn't the best solution here, and there are other ways to deal with this. Personally I'd prefer if we didn't pave over the whole world with roads and suburbs.
    - 0xDEF 3y ago
      Resource extraction for batteries and EV will at its worst casue localized pollution. That is preferable to a high CO2 future that will make most of the global south.
      - reportingsjr 3y ago
        This is not true, as subsidizing cars makes suburban and exurban locations cheaper. Significant land use change in this way absolutely contributes to high atmospheric CO2 as well as widespread environmental destruction.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
locallost 3y ago
They published a list, your home is on it. When can we start drilling?
- zo1 3y ago
  Not OP. But as soon as they transfer money in compensation that's fair and represents the value of the land. Or, I'm happy to take a 20% cut of all resources mined from my property. They can demolish it entirely and turn it into a giant hole for all I care.
  - davidw 3y ago
    > as they transfer money in compensation that's fair and represents the value of the land I mean, if I'm a native American, I am not going to have a whole lot of faith in that process...
- thehappypm 3y ago
  Buy my land at a premium, I’ll gladly retire early!
demondemidi 3y ago
Yes yes, those pesky native Americans are TOTAL NIMBY's. /s And there's such a prestine track record of resource extraction by trillion-dollar conglomerates. /s/s I think the knee jerking is yours.
aradox66 3y ago
Environmentalist is a very broad label. Some folks - likely those native Americans - don't want their (ancestral) lands permanently poisoned. Theyre not necessarily weighing in on a strategy for a global energy transition. Why should they have to? "NIMBY" might be accurate, but "knee-jerk" is unfair.

I refuse to call these people "environmentalists" until they provide a list of places they are ok with mining. What they are is just glorified NIMBYs who knee jerk oppose everything.

midasuni 3y ago

NIMBYS say that things should be built/mined, just not near them.

lazide 3y ago
Pretty sure those protestors are driving there in vehicles using mined minerals, fueling them with energy refined and extracted using mined minerals (and likely burning fossil fuels too), etc. If that isn’t saying things should be mined, just not where they can see it, I don’t know what is.

mkoubaa 3y ago

Agree, nobody wants to know or see how the sausage is made, they just want the sausage.

nonethewiser 3y ago
Assumption that EVs are cleaner in a nutshell. To be clear I think EVs are cleaner, but you can’t conclude that from the fact that it doesnt emit while driving. EVs just squeeze the emission event further up the supply chain where a shocking amount of people don’t see it.
- edude03 3y ago
  They’re more efficient than burning oil and we currently “mine” for oil so I don’t see how that’s not true

davidw 3y ago

Lithium is pretty important in terms of electrifying our economy, which is important for the global environment and climate change - and it's got to come from somewhere. It's also true that mines have a huge track record of getting in, digging stuff up, making money, and then leaving the mess for someone else to clean up. If you look at the satellite map of the area, you see the former Cordero mercury mine: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9221322,-117.8162339,7151m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9221322,-117.8162339,7151m/d... There's a whole report on it here: https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=7029 https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=7029 > The EPA Site Assessment program conducted a Site Inspection in 1988 which recommended no further action. Upon request from the Fort McDermitt Pauite Shoshone Tribe, EPA Emergency Response conducted an additional site visit in November 2009. At that time, EPA was notified of the possibility that mine waste had been used as fill at locations within the town of McDermitt and on the Fort McDermitt Paiute Shoshone Reservation. In other words, they tried to get out of doing any cleanup. Then they found that "well, actually..." there was some cleanup needed. So... it's probably still worth doing because of climate change, but it'd sure be nice to ensure it's done right, and they do right by the people who have always lived there. I imagine the local tribes are also pretty wary of getting screwed, because that is something that has been very much par for the course throughout US history.

fallingknife 3y ago
In that case environmentalists should be very much in favor of the mine. Mining in the US is much cleaner than in most other countries so mining it here is not only better for our economy, but for the environment as well. Your example actually is proof of this. It got cleaned up. It wouldn't in most countries.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Australia (where most lithium is being mined ATM) isn’t so far behind on the cleanup side. They are a liberal democracy after all. It isn’t clear to me if they are just getting off easy because they are shipping unrefined lithium ore to China, however.
3y ago

nonethewiser 3y ago

Its already holding up different lithum mines in Nevada https://apnews.com/article/business-nevada-plants-climate-and-environment-9df49213286bb886e15b87f81a82351f https://apnews.com/article/business-nevada-plants-climate-an...

0xDEF 3y ago
[flagged]
- reportingsjr 3y ago
  Maybe massively subsidizing cars that need insane amounts of resource extraction isn't the best solution here, and there are other ways to deal with this. Personally I'd prefer if we didn't pave over the whole world with roads and suburbs.
  - 0xDEF 3y ago
    Resource extraction for batteries and EV will at its worst casue localized pollution. That is preferable to a high CO2 future that will make most of the global south.
    - reportingsjr 3y ago
      This is not true, as subsidizing cars makes suburban and exurban locations cheaper. Significant land use change in this way absolutely contributes to high atmospheric CO2 as well as widespread environmental destruction.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

locallost 3y ago

They published a list, your home is on it. When can we start drilling?

zo1 3y ago
Not OP. But as soon as they transfer money in compensation that's fair and represents the value of the land. Or, I'm happy to take a 20% cut of all resources mined from my property. They can demolish it entirely and turn it into a giant hole for all I care.
- davidw 3y ago
  > as they transfer money in compensation that's fair and represents the value of the land I mean, if I'm a native American, I am not going to have a whole lot of faith in that process...
thehappypm 3y ago
Buy my land at a premium, I’ll gladly retire early!

demondemidi 3y ago

Yes yes, those pesky native Americans are TOTAL NIMBY's. /s And there's such a prestine track record of resource extraction by trillion-dollar conglomerates. /s/s I think the knee jerking is yours.

aradox66 3y ago

Environmentalist is a very broad label. Some folks - likely those native Americans - don't want their (ancestral) lands permanently poisoned. Theyre not necessarily weighing in on a strategy for a global energy transition. Why should they have to? "NIMBY" might be accurate, but "knee-jerk" is unfair.