5 ms·

For H1B don't they have to show that they are paying at least market rate? And isn't it a factor in awarding the visa?

by ftyers 3y ago

gabereiser 3y ago
Market rate is +/- 50%.
prng2021 3y ago
I've personally noticed that H1B tech workers get paid significantly lower than others. It's a shameful business practice and obviously also really hurts the competitiveness of non-visa workers. My guess is that there's no clear market rate for any position. Companies can always say there's a wide range between lowest and highest paid for any given role.
- rrryougi 3y ago
  A PERM (permanent labor certificate) actually requires prevailing wage for a specific job position at a specific area. Just go check this website: https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages
- iteria 3y ago
  Market rate is based on the national median. So yeah... they do get paid more than the median, but far less than a developer where they work. It's why H1 workers tend to get hired in high paying areas. That's when it's worth it. If they can swing remote, it might be worth it. I've had a California company "lowball" me and I cackled at my amazing raise internally.
  - rrryougi 3y ago
    That is not true. Prevailing wage also depends on the where you work. https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages
    - imwillofficial 3y ago
      It is true. You posting that link over and over doesn’t obviate the fact that we look around collectively and see H1Bs getting paid at the bottom of the band.
- ftyers 3y ago
  I wonder if it's different in the public sector? I'm at a university and (pay transparency) earn pretty much equivalent to equivalently experienced colleagues. (Edit: in the Midwest)
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    It is not. Visa holder wages are publicly available. People in this thread are making stuff up to support their views.
- hejalajsbsb 3y ago
  It depends on the company and I would bet my life’s savings that if a discrepancy exists at Google, it is not intentional. I have many American friends, friends on TN visas, and friends on H1Bs and we are transparent about our pay (to protect each other from poor business practices). Being involved in the process there are so many legal barriers and red tape and people take it all seriously. H1B holders will get paid less over time due to not being able to leave companies at the drop of a hat. A similar but less significant effect holds for TN visas. I have not once seen any significant pay discrepancy for two comparable software engineers at the same company based on visa status.
  - porkbeer 3y ago
    I'll take that bet.
    - nostrebored 3y ago
      Why? OP mentioned a number of reasons why they don’t believe it to be true
  - oceanplexian 3y ago
    I worked at FAANG and knew more than one Indian on H1B. They weren't getting paid "the same but slightly less". They were getting like 50k TC on a team where the rest of the team was making 200+.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      > They were getting like 50k TC on a team where the rest of the team was making 200+. I don't believe this for a second. Were they outsourced?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - hejalajsbsb 3y ago
      To my knowledge that is unambiguously illegal and I hope they band together to get justice. Were they aware of others in shared circumstances?
mdorazio 3y ago
Here's how it works in practice: You create a job posting that's buried on your careers page and has so many very specific requirements for an underleveled role (because it's custom-made for the H1B person you want to hire) that no local worker can possibly meet them all. Then you half-heartedly phone screen a few people to check the box before throwing up your hands and saying, "We tried and weren't able to find any local workers; we have no choice but to hire an H1B!" This could all be fixed by making H1B visas an auction system, but all the H1B legislation changes I've seen have been half-hearted at best.
- delfinom 3y ago
  Because both political parties have donors that benefit from H1Bs and it's beyond just tech companies. Even the angry orange man has his hotels applying for H1B visas. Fucking hotels.
  - Consultant32452 3y ago
    The public's lack of understanding of the real motivations of political/business leaders with regards to immigration policy is like a masterclass on propaganda and brainwashing.
  - oceanplexian 3y ago
    Trump actually tried to end H1B, and suspended the H1B program with an executive order. One of his policy decisions I support. Actually the entire platform was centered around immigration. As soon as it happened though, there were news stories left and right about how "Immigration is our strength" and "The US is a country founded by immigrants". All these sob stories about why we need cheap, exploitable labor to undercut American workers.
    - manuelabeledo 3y ago
      Trump didn't try to "end" the program. His administration straight up wanted to close the borders to interns, skilled workers, and their relatives. That goes far beyond H-1B visas. > All these sob stories about why we need cheap, exploitable labor to undercut American workers. This is not how the H-1B program works. Also, they didn't try to stop agricultural workers from entering the US. If you really want to focus on "cheap labor", you may want to start there.
Retric 3y ago
In theory yes, but not in practice. Job roles are often downplayed. The basic mechanism where titles, roles, and pay are kept in sync because people will jump to new jobs breaks down in the H1B system.
delfinom 3y ago
Yea the market rate definitely has shenanigans. And I almost wonder if the "response" to a made up ad with low ball number is used to declare it's a valid market rate. Case in point, when I graduated 15 years ago. There was a big H1B software farm (Accenture maybe?) That randomly emailed. 2 year contract job, $30k/year out of NYC. Yea....not a reasonable salary even 15 years ago lmao
- gabereiser 3y ago
  15 years ago I interviewed at Electronic Arts. They did this same thing. I wasn’t a recent college grad. I had a family to support. They offered me the job but at 60% of what I asked for. They were shocked when I told them to go eat dirt.

For H1B don't they have to show that they are paying at least market rate? And isn't it a factor in awarding the visa?

by ftyers 3y ago

For H1B don't they have to show that they are paying at least market rate? And isn't it a factor in awarding the visa?

gabereiser 3y ago

Market rate is +/- 50%.

prng2021 3y ago

I've personally noticed that H1B tech workers get paid significantly lower than others. It's a shameful business practice and obviously also really hurts the competitiveness of non-visa workers. My guess is that there's no clear market rate for any position. Companies can always say there's a wide range between lowest and highest paid for any given role.

rrryougi 3y ago
A PERM (permanent labor certificate) actually requires prevailing wage for a specific job position at a specific area. Just go check this website: https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages
iteria 3y ago
Market rate is based on the national median. So yeah... they do get paid more than the median, but far less than a developer where they work. It's why H1 workers tend to get hired in high paying areas. That's when it's worth it. If they can swing remote, it might be worth it. I've had a California company "lowball" me and I cackled at my amazing raise internally.
- rrryougi 3y ago
  That is not true. Prevailing wage also depends on the where you work. https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages https://flag.dol.gov/programs/prevailingwages
  - imwillofficial 3y ago
    It is true. You posting that link over and over doesn’t obviate the fact that we look around collectively and see H1Bs getting paid at the bottom of the band.
ftyers 3y ago
I wonder if it's different in the public sector? I'm at a university and (pay transparency) earn pretty much equivalent to equivalently experienced colleagues. (Edit: in the Midwest)
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  It is not. Visa holder wages are publicly available. People in this thread are making stuff up to support their views.
hejalajsbsb 3y ago
It depends on the company and I would bet my life’s savings that if a discrepancy exists at Google, it is not intentional. I have many American friends, friends on TN visas, and friends on H1Bs and we are transparent about our pay (to protect each other from poor business practices). Being involved in the process there are so many legal barriers and red tape and people take it all seriously. H1B holders will get paid less over time due to not being able to leave companies at the drop of a hat. A similar but less significant effect holds for TN visas. I have not once seen any significant pay discrepancy for two comparable software engineers at the same company based on visa status.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  I'll take that bet.
  - nostrebored 3y ago
    Why? OP mentioned a number of reasons why they don’t believe it to be true
- oceanplexian 3y ago
  I worked at FAANG and knew more than one Indian on H1B. They weren't getting paid "the same but slightly less". They were getting like 50k TC on a team where the rest of the team was making 200+.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    > They were getting like 50k TC on a team where the rest of the team was making 200+. I don't believe this for a second. Were they outsourced?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hejalajsbsb 3y ago
    To my knowledge that is unambiguously illegal and I hope they band together to get justice. Were they aware of others in shared circumstances?

mdorazio 3y ago

Here's how it works in practice: You create a job posting that's buried on your careers page and has so many very specific requirements for an underleveled role (because it's custom-made for the H1B person you want to hire) that no local worker can possibly meet them all. Then you half-heartedly phone screen a few people to check the box before throwing up your hands and saying, "We tried and weren't able to find any local workers; we have no choice but to hire an H1B!" This could all be fixed by making H1B visas an auction system, but all the H1B legislation changes I've seen have been half-hearted at best.

delfinom 3y ago
Because both political parties have donors that benefit from H1Bs and it's beyond just tech companies. Even the angry orange man has his hotels applying for H1B visas. Fucking hotels.
- Consultant32452 3y ago
  The public's lack of understanding of the real motivations of political/business leaders with regards to immigration policy is like a masterclass on propaganda and brainwashing.
- oceanplexian 3y ago
  Trump actually tried to end H1B, and suspended the H1B program with an executive order. One of his policy decisions I support. Actually the entire platform was centered around immigration. As soon as it happened though, there were news stories left and right about how "Immigration is our strength" and "The US is a country founded by immigrants". All these sob stories about why we need cheap, exploitable labor to undercut American workers.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    Trump didn't try to "end" the program. His administration straight up wanted to close the borders to interns, skilled workers, and their relatives. That goes far beyond H-1B visas. > All these sob stories about why we need cheap, exploitable labor to undercut American workers. This is not how the H-1B program works. Also, they didn't try to stop agricultural workers from entering the US. If you really want to focus on "cheap labor", you may want to start there.

Retric 3y ago

In theory yes, but not in practice. Job roles are often downplayed. The basic mechanism where titles, roles, and pay are kept in sync because people will jump to new jobs breaks down in the H1B system.

delfinom 3y ago

Yea the market rate definitely has shenanigans. And I almost wonder if the "response" to a made up ad with low ball number is used to declare it's a valid market rate. Case in point, when I graduated 15 years ago. There was a big H1B software farm (Accenture maybe?) That randomly emailed. 2 year contract job, $30k/year out of NYC. Yea....not a reasonable salary even 15 years ago lmao

gabereiser 3y ago
15 years ago I interviewed at Electronic Arts. They did this same thing. I wasn’t a recent college grad. I had a family to support. They offered me the job but at 60% of what I asked for. They were shocked when I told them to go eat dirt.