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What I wonder is this: these North Koreans clearly have unrestricted internet access (sort of have to to find 0-days) and they also clearly at least understand
by jedberg 3y ago
What I wonder is this: these North Koreans clearly have unrestricted internet access (sort of have to to find 0-days) and they also clearly at least understand English.
How have they not accidentally stumbled across media that shows them all the things their state media doesn't?
- CP3f6kMA 3y agoThey probably see the crazy shit the western propaganda machine pumps out about them and are reassured. That is not to say NK is absolved of wrongdoing, however.
- eastbound 3y agoMaybe we went a tad too far with Ukraine propaganda. Five Eyes, if you hear me, maybe turn that down a notch for a while, you’re getting as credible as Colin Powell’s words at the UN Security Council, and kids will remember.
- nonethewiser 3y agoHonestly true. They are probably patriotic, far from the larger problems, have cognitive dissonance (“im not living in a dystopian shithole because that would be hopeless “, etc. All it takes is one glaring mischaracterization by western media and their beliefs that they are misunderstood by the West are confirmed. They probably even know of many of the bad things that happen but are able to rationalize it.
- rl3 3y agoOn the contrary, DPRK has a long history of threatening people's families to keep them in line. The simplest explanation here is also the most cruel: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37425542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37425542 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoeryong_concentration_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoeryong_concentration_camp
- varjag 3y agoYou have people living in the free world believing everything around them is a lie. Finding yourself an interpretational perspective as an observer that would spare you from reconsidering core values comes relatively easy.
- ctenb 3y agoThey probably do, but I don't think there is much they can do if they care about their family's well being
- jszymborski 3y agoI don't think there are many options here: - They can't get to X freer country as that's just difficult for all North Koreans - They likely can't just stop hacking for carrot and/or stick reasons. They are likely closely monitored. - Maybe some people drink the kool-aid. I'm sure these people are very well compensated.
- CameronNemo 3y agoThey are likely closely monitored Imagine getting a week of solitary confinement for trying to read a Korea Times article. https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=358723 https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=358723
- CameronNemo 3y agoAlso pay the writers, I need another season of severance :'(
- altacc 3y agoI think it's mostly the control from the first 2 points you mention. They are often working from China, where the authorities will not help them. "Well compensated" in North Korea terms means not starving and your family has not yet been sent to a forced labor camp. Escaping means your family suffers terribly.
- n4r9 3y agoThe state tightly controls who gets internet access. The agents would be thoroughly vetted, and/or given a life they could not otherwise have and an implicit threat to their family's well being if they were to misbehave. They probably do have some idea of what life is like outside their country, but are either conditioned to look down on it or terrified of trying to escape.
- the_gipsy 3y agoTo give you some perspective, there exists a Spaniard who joined NK: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Cao_de_Ben%C3%B3s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Cao_de_Ben%C3%B3s
- gnfargbl 3y agoSolzhenitsyn wrote an autobiographical novel about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_First_Circle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_First_Circle
- NelsonMinar 3y agoThe excellent BBC podcast The Lazarus Heist talks some about the lives of North Korean hackers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads They're closely monitored where they work and often have threats against their family.
- dragonwriter 3y agoYou think the North Korean intelligence community is not aware of the content of Western media? They probably are aware. There are other means of keeping them in line, both carrot (privileges within DPRK) and stick (consequences for them and their loved ones if they step out of line.)
- lucubratory 3y ago"All of our secret agents are loyal patriots, while all of theirs are brainwashed hostages!" The reality is that like every other country's intelligence services, they would obviously recruit for patriotism. This question is like asking why US intelligence agents who have access to information about the DPRK beyond the propaganda don't defect to the DPRK's superior healthcare coverage, zero school shootings, and better litter management. They don't value those aspects of DPRK society which seem better, and probably don't necessarily trust that they actually are better in X specific circumstance (pretty valid!). I don't see why it would be any different for DPRK intelligence.
- ARandomerDude 3y agoYeah — other than the famines, forced labor, summary executions, and mandatory dictator cult it’s probably a great place.
- lelandbatey 3y agoIt's not that it's a great place, it's that an individual who is deep into the indoctrination (from a lifetime of exposure) might not be as aware of the realities of their world vs the outside world, even with Internet access.
- plaguuuuuu 3y agoIf you're a member of an elite cyber-intelligence military branch who knows, it might not be as bad. The USA is also great if you earn 200k/y as a software developer. If you're a teacher, not so much.
- daliusd 3y agoYeah, teachers in USA are forced to be teachers and don't have food on regular basis /s
- JuanPosadas 3y ago> defect to the DPRK's superior healthcare coverage, zero school shootings, and better litter management. I can't believe you're glorifying the DPRK without mentioning that they celebrate Tax Abolition Day since eliminating it in 1974.
- bouncycastle 3y agoLife is probably not bad in North Korea, than the propaganda lead you to believe. Especially if you remain loyal and are a valuable asset.
- pirate787 3y agoYou're joking right? North Koreans are literally starving to death. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/03/asia/north-korea-hunger-famine-food-shortages-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/03/asia/north-korea-hunger-famin...
- fomine3 3y agoThat's not applied for such hackers
- midoridensha 3y agoThose people probably aren't "valuable assets".
- calgarymicro 3y ago> Life is probably not bad in North Korea, than the propaganda lead you to believe. If this were the case then it would not be necessary for them to shoot people trying to leave.
- golem14 3y agoThe East Germans did that, too
- retrac 3y agoThey do. But what would they do with that information? People in the late USSR were in a similar situation. Even without necessarily knowing all the details, the average person, and certainly the intelligentsia and people working in the intelligence services, had a growing awareness of the absurdity of it all, how different the rest of the non-Communist world was, and so on. Something similar is true in China, today. A person in China who wishes to inform themselves about China's history or recent offences against human rights, can at this point, do so, and fairly easily. But... then what? Can't talk about it. With whom would it be safe? Can't tell others what you've learned. Can't discuss your perspective. In my view it was not the truth that destroyed e.g. the USSR. It was allowing people to organize independently of state control. That, plus truth, was fatal. Both the Chinese and North Korean ruling parties have learned that lesson. It doesn't actually matter if a significant proportion of the public knows the truth. They can know the truth, alone, in isolation, unable to act on it.
- 0xDEF 3y agoNorth Americans and Western Europeans are incredibly naive about how authoritarian states work. All authoritarian states will end up having a caste sysem hierarchy. The upper caste have it just as good a people in the West and in modern times they will have unfiltered access to the Internet. They have zero reason to revolt because they have everything then need.
- varjag 3y agoThey rarely have it just as good as in the West. But being on the top in your society can make you gloss over a lot.
- altacc 3y agoYep, even a lot of Western political demagoguery is telling people they have it good compared to some unfortunate others, so that the politicians can avoid having to actually make things better.
- adamrezich 3y agohow much of what you think you know about North Korea is verifiably true? how much of what we think we know about our own governments is verifiably true?
- carbibfan 3y ago[flagged]