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Musk shut off Starlink to prevent Ukraine attack on Russian ships

30 points by bergie 3y ago

throwawaysleep 3y ago
Never thought that Republicans would be all in with Russia. Strange world.
- labrador 3y ago
  I know right? I'm an older person so I remember Reagan's "Evil Empire". It's gobsmacking.
  - linksnapzz 3y ago
    TIL people can't tell the difference between Soviet communists, and Russians.
    - dekhn 3y ago
      I mean, we covered this in my Russian Politics class in detail. Even during soviet times, every non-russian soviet state had russian politicians working behind the scenes. And many of the leaders/powerful people in Russia today are the inheritors of the power structure of the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the soviet union. I suspect many people you think are ignorant are actually quite aware of the subtle relationship between the two.
      - linksnapzz 3y ago
        “Inheritors of the power structure”; i.e. they had inherited authority in what was effectively a new state in economic & demographic collapse. Do you think that all of them believe, now as then, that the situation they found themselves in in 1992 was entirely exogenous to the Soviet system?
    - wmf 3y ago
      If Putin can barely tell the difference why should we?
      - linksnapzz 3y ago
        I've never heard Putin say much in favor of either Bolshevism or Soviet command economics; other than how the collapse of the former resulted in a terrible situation for the post-soviet Russian economy.
    - throwawaysleep 3y ago
      Different flag. A little less land. Fewer people occupied. Same people in charge. Soviet government officials are now Russian government officials.
      - linksnapzz 3y ago
        Those same people would have to have been hired (at the latest) in 1991. Most ex-Soviets have retired or passed on by now.
        sanderjd 3y ago
        This whole thread is very off topic for HN so I shouldn't even engage, but this comment just seems so bizarre that I feel weird not responding: The current leader of Russia is Vladimir Putin, who certainly can be described as an ex-Soviet, having begun his career working for the Soviet intelligence service. His inner circle mostly share that same background. Am I missing your point?
        linksnapzz 3y ago
        Yes. He worked for a Communist state, he was not personally invested in the ideology beyond what was necessary to succeed in his organization. This describes many, many Russians.
        sanderjd 3y ago
        I think "you can't call people who were in the KGB ex-soviets because they did not have strong attachment to communist ideology" is an indefensible assertion. If these people were a farmers or factory workers or something, sure. But these were people who worked and fought for the soviet state, not just workaday citizens. If the current government of the US collapses, and whatever government we end up with afterward is eventually run by a cadre of career CIA agents, it will be very fair to call them whatever the equivalent of "ex-soviet" will be, even if they don't ever talk about their ideological attachment to constitutional republics.
    - labrador 3y ago
      The imperial mindset of Russians who think lands outside their borders belong to them gives me the same "look and feel" as Soviet communists
      - linksnapzz 3y ago
        There is certainly much truth to that observation; but there is a difference in principle.
- simonblack 3y ago
  A CEO trying to prevent harm to his company and also to increase returns to his (mainly American) shareholders is considered 'all in with Russia'. Strange world. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He probably cares more about his shareholders' opinion of him than your opinion of him.
legitster 3y ago
> The NYT report provides a slightly different description of the incident near Crimea than the one in the CNN report based on Isaacson's book. While the book reportedly says Musk ordered SpaceX engineers to preemptively disable Starlink's network in the area, the NYT report said that Musk "refused Ukraine's request last year to provide Starlink access near Crimea, the Russian-controlled peninsula, so it could send an explosive-filled maritime drone into Russian ships docked in the Black Sea." While markedly less dramatic, the NYT version of events seems much more realistic and defensible. I'm very pro-Ukraine and anti-Musk, but I do think it's interesting the difference in coverage this is getting compared to the Googlers walking out over the DOD contracts
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Yeah agreed with this. There is a version of this where SpaceX, through a standard process, refused service for military purposes, as described in their ToS. And there is another version where a single individual unilaterally took a reactive action. I think these are two very different stories and it's honestly not clear to me from the current reporting which is closer to the reality.
notmypenguin 3y ago
Stop feeding Starlink rich government contracts. This shouldn’t be handled by a private contractor at all
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  The issue was the lack of a rich government contract
KingLancelot 3y ago
[dead]
simonblack 3y ago
As a CEO, Musk is obliged to look out for the best interests of Starlink and Starlink's shareholders (mostly Americans), and not allow somebody to paint a target on Starlink's back. The Russians are very capable of blasting those Starlink satellites out of orbit.
victortan83 3y ago
Starlink terms of service explicitly prohibits military use. https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1020-91087-64 https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1020-91087-64

30 points by bergie 3y ago

throwawaysleep 3y ago

Never thought that Republicans would be all in with Russia. Strange world.

labrador 3y ago
I know right? I'm an older person so I remember Reagan's "Evil Empire". It's gobsmacking.
- linksnapzz 3y ago
  TIL people can't tell the difference between Soviet communists, and Russians.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I mean, we covered this in my Russian Politics class in detail. Even during soviet times, every non-russian soviet state had russian politicians working behind the scenes. And many of the leaders/powerful people in Russia today are the inheritors of the power structure of the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the soviet union. I suspect many people you think are ignorant are actually quite aware of the subtle relationship between the two.
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      “Inheritors of the power structure”; i.e. they had inherited authority in what was effectively a new state in economic & demographic collapse. Do you think that all of them believe, now as then, that the situation they found themselves in in 1992 was entirely exogenous to the Soviet system?
  - wmf 3y ago
    If Putin can barely tell the difference why should we?
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      I've never heard Putin say much in favor of either Bolshevism or Soviet command economics; other than how the collapse of the former resulted in a terrible situation for the post-soviet Russian economy.
  - throwawaysleep 3y ago
    Different flag. A little less land. Fewer people occupied. Same people in charge. Soviet government officials are now Russian government officials.
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      Those same people would have to have been hired (at the latest) in 1991. Most ex-Soviets have retired or passed on by now.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        This whole thread is very off topic for HN so I shouldn't even engage, but this comment just seems so bizarre that I feel weird not responding: The current leader of Russia is Vladimir Putin, who certainly can be described as an ex-Soviet, having begun his career working for the Soviet intelligence service. His inner circle mostly share that same background. Am I missing your point?
        linksnapzz 3y ago
        Yes. He worked for a Communist state, he was not personally invested in the ideology beyond what was necessary to succeed in his organization. This describes many, many Russians.
        sanderjd 3y ago
        I think "you can't call people who were in the KGB ex-soviets because they did not have strong attachment to communist ideology" is an indefensible assertion. If these people were a farmers or factory workers or something, sure. But these were people who worked and fought for the soviet state, not just workaday citizens. If the current government of the US collapses, and whatever government we end up with afterward is eventually run by a cadre of career CIA agents, it will be very fair to call them whatever the equivalent of "ex-soviet" will be, even if they don't ever talk about their ideological attachment to constitutional republics.
  - labrador 3y ago
    The imperial mindset of Russians who think lands outside their borders belong to them gives me the same "look and feel" as Soviet communists
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      There is certainly much truth to that observation; but there is a difference in principle.
simonblack 3y ago
A CEO trying to prevent harm to his company and also to increase returns to his (mainly American) shareholders is considered 'all in with Russia'. Strange world. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He probably cares more about his shareholders' opinion of him than your opinion of him.

legitster 3y ago

> The NYT report provides a slightly different description of the incident near Crimea than the one in the CNN report based on Isaacson's book. While the book reportedly says Musk ordered SpaceX engineers to preemptively disable Starlink's network in the area, the NYT report said that Musk "refused Ukraine's request last year to provide Starlink access near Crimea, the Russian-controlled peninsula, so it could send an explosive-filled maritime drone into Russian ships docked in the Black Sea." While markedly less dramatic, the NYT version of events seems much more realistic and defensible. I'm very pro-Ukraine and anti-Musk, but I do think it's interesting the difference in coverage this is getting compared to the Googlers walking out over the DOD contracts

sanderjd 3y ago
Yeah agreed with this. There is a version of this where SpaceX, through a standard process, refused service for military purposes, as described in their ToS. And there is another version where a single individual unilaterally took a reactive action. I think these are two very different stories and it's honestly not clear to me from the current reporting which is closer to the reality.

notmypenguin 3y ago

Stop feeding Starlink rich government contracts. This shouldn’t be handled by a private contractor at all

inemesitaffia 3y ago
The issue was the lack of a rich government contract

KingLancelot 3y ago

[dead]

simonblack 3y ago

As a CEO, Musk is obliged to look out for the best interests of Starlink and Starlink's shareholders (mostly Americans), and not allow somebody to paint a target on Starlink's back. The Russians are very capable of blasting those Starlink satellites out of orbit.

victortan83 3y ago

Starlink terms of service explicitly prohibits military use. https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1020-91087-64 https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1020-91087-64