5 ms·

Tour of an ASML machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfU20SAR21A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfU20SAR21A

by rwmj 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Correction, that's a tour of the Cymer EUV light source facility, the secret sauce that makes ASML machines the hot shit. That light source gets integrated into the ASML stepper machines.
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  The things I'd do to pick the brains of these people.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Would you know what to pick though? My problem with access to very smart people is usually to be able to ask the right questions not that they couldn't answer.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - hindsightbias 3y ago
      Maybe makes a dent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmgkV83OhHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmgkV83OhHA https://www.youtube.com/@Asianometry/videos https://www.youtube.com/@Asianometry/videos
      - iancmceachern 3y ago
        I love Asianometry!
        minorannoyance2 3y ago
        Cannot recommend it enough, fair warning though, I have realized I watched a few videos too many on more than one occasion, Asianometry becomes a dangerous time sink way too easily.
        PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        It’s 100% worth it though.
- echelon 3y ago
  Is this giving away the keys to the kingdom? Is the blur on the videos enough to keep the proprietary components concealed? Seems like a state actor could easily reverse this filter and learn the underlying shapes. How much isn't revealed by this tour? This seems like it's giving away quite a lot of the EUV process. Or has all of the content of the video been publicly known (or stolen previously)? I get that this might excite young people into entering the field, but if the US is trying to gatekeep advanced processors, this feels like showing off a lot of the secret sauce. How long do we think it'll take a foreign actor to replicate EUV, and how far along do we think we'll be into the next process by then?
  - tw04 3y ago
    I doubt images alone are enough. China has had access to Russian jet engines for half a century and still struggles to produce their own.
    - geodel 3y ago
      Seems they are skimping on 3-D printers from AliExpress. :-)
    - skhr0680 3y ago
      If you give professional chef an elaborate dish and the recipe for it, will they be able to make exactly the same thing?
      - numbsafari 3y ago
        Probably not, in isolation. But can the original chef that wrote the recipe produce the same thing several million or billion times a year?
      - iancmceachern 3y ago
        We can't even replicate the F1 engine, or make new nukes anymore, and we have the recipe book and the chefs.
Tempest1981 3y ago
Thanks. The book Chip War has a good chapter on this, but the video provides some nice (albeit quick) visualizations.
away271828 3y ago
I was in a meeting with ASML a few months back and people were pretty much slack-jawed as they were taking us through some video and slides of their technology. It was definitely one of those "this is just science fiction" things.

Tour of an ASML machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfU20SAR21A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfU20SAR21A

by rwmj 3y ago

Tour of an ASML machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfU20SAR21A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfU20SAR21A

Correction, that's a tour of the Cymer EUV light source facility, the secret sauce that makes ASML machines the hot shit. That light source gets integrated into the ASML stepper machines.

PartiallyTyped 3y ago
The things I'd do to pick the brains of these people.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Would you know what to pick though? My problem with access to very smart people is usually to be able to ask the right questions not that they couldn't answer.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hindsightbias 3y ago
    Maybe makes a dent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmgkV83OhHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmgkV83OhHA https://www.youtube.com/@Asianometry/videos https://www.youtube.com/@Asianometry/videos
    - iancmceachern 3y ago
      I love Asianometry!
      - minorannoyance2 3y ago
        Cannot recommend it enough, fair warning though, I have realized I watched a few videos too many on more than one occasion, Asianometry becomes a dangerous time sink way too easily.
        PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        It’s 100% worth it though.
echelon 3y ago
Is this giving away the keys to the kingdom? Is the blur on the videos enough to keep the proprietary components concealed? Seems like a state actor could easily reverse this filter and learn the underlying shapes. How much isn't revealed by this tour? This seems like it's giving away quite a lot of the EUV process. Or has all of the content of the video been publicly known (or stolen previously)? I get that this might excite young people into entering the field, but if the US is trying to gatekeep advanced processors, this feels like showing off a lot of the secret sauce. How long do we think it'll take a foreign actor to replicate EUV, and how far along do we think we'll be into the next process by then?
- tw04 3y ago
  I doubt images alone are enough. China has had access to Russian jet engines for half a century and still struggles to produce their own.
  - geodel 3y ago
    Seems they are skimping on 3-D printers from AliExpress. :-)
  - skhr0680 3y ago
    If you give professional chef an elaborate dish and the recipe for it, will they be able to make exactly the same thing?
    - numbsafari 3y ago
      Probably not, in isolation. But can the original chef that wrote the recipe produce the same thing several million or billion times a year?
    - iancmceachern 3y ago
      We can't even replicate the F1 engine, or make new nukes anymore, and we have the recipe book and the chefs.

Tempest1981 3y ago

Thanks. The book Chip War has a good chapter on this, but the video provides some nice (albeit quick) visualizations.

away271828 3y ago

I was in a meeting with ASML a few months back and people were pretty much slack-jawed as they were taking us through some video and slides of their technology. It was definitely one of those "this is just science fiction" things.