4 ms·
Despite its potential flaws, modern capitalism is still a thousand times more preferable than any kind of communism.
by waihtis 3y ago
Despite its potential flaws, modern capitalism is still a thousand times more preferable than any kind of communism.
- celtoid 3y agoEinstein never mentions communism. The essay's topic is socialism.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y agoWhich is just as much a pipe dream
- wernercd 3y agopotato, patato. The only difference is methodology and extremity. otherwise the results are largely the same.
- celtoid 3y agoSocialism and communism are two different things. It's sloppy thinking to conflate them.
- waihtis 3y agoThey're the exact same except socialism is a more "watered down" version. Definitions: > Socialism is a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership. > Communism is a political and economic ideology that positions itself in opposition to liberal democracy and capitalism, advocating instead for a classless system in which the means of production are owned communally and private property is nonexistent or severely curtailed.
- consilient 3y agoIn practice "Communism" means Leninism and its descendants, or occasionally revolutionary Marxism in general. No one reasonable would ever use it to refer to the likes of Olof Palme.
- waihtis 3y agoOlof Palme would've been a communist had the Overton window been in a suitable place during his reign
- wernercd 3y ago"different" only in the definitions. not in effective results. two sides of the same failed coin and both full of the same failed promises (promises made with different reasons but still the same promises). Sloppy thinking is supporting either after 100+ years of proof that they fail on every level.
- soperj 3y agoModern capitalism has a lot of socialism in it. Socialized fire dept, sewage, roads, police, in most cases socialized healthcare, in the US they socialize bank & auto corporation losses whenever there's a recession, etc etc.
- wernercd 3y agoFire departments, police and roads aren't "socialism". They are not the means of production and are not industry in any sense other than a desire to lay claim to successes that socialism itself doesn't possess.
- soperj 3y agoSo, anything that isn't producing goods in a capitalist system should be publicly owned? Very good case for public health care then in the US.
- waihtis 3y agoHealthcare is most definitely producing goods. People will consume it much over their needs if it is free. A fire department or police are not, people will not call the fire department for the fun of it, only if there is fire. That said, healthcare is definitely a troubling one because its interests do not align particularly well with a profit-driven model. It should probably have some kind of halfway model to discourage overt usage while ensuring people get healthcare in the scope they need it even if they have a bad financial situation. I don't have a good answer for it.
- beepbooptheory 3y agoThe impulse to quantify like this is always fascinating to me in positions like this, as if the only thing a person can muster for a rebuttal is an appeal to some kind of vulgar, assumed utilitarianism. Where are the true believers anymore? Can the ultimately existential nature of humanity really only be of the form "worse-than/better-than"? People treat the whole world as if they are choosing the right laptop!
- waihtis 3y agoRest assured I truly believe communism is one of the most idiotic ideas in existence.
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoOK, here's a non-utilitarian answer: People really like owning and controlling their own stuff. (I suppose you could make that a utilitarian statement, by saying that "really like" means "valuing", but I think it's much deeper than that. It's pretty deep in human nature, from what we observe in almost all societies. So one could say that communism is literally contrary to human nature. You might be able to make it work, but you need different humans than the ones you have.)
- Natsu 3y agoThis is what I always go back to, if it's so good for people, just do it voluntarily. Organizational problems only get worse at scale. And if people can't be convinced to take part in doing it voluntarily, rather than forcing others to take part, then how is it even going to work out anyway?