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France prepares to ban vegetarian products from using meaty language
- boringg 3y agoPoliticians doing important work.
- chrisjj 3y ago> The French government has said it is preparing a new decree against meaty terms like “steak”, “grill” and “spare ribs” being used to describe plant-based products. I wonder what is the approved alternative for grilled vegetables.
- a1o 3y agoThis is weird, the grill is the tool!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Sander_Marechal 3y agoNot in French
- phito 3y agoI'm not sure which French word they translated to "grill" tho. Maybe barbecue? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmMCbTAmFI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmMCbTAmFI8
- ww520 3y agoBBQ. Shudder.
- graindcafe 3y agoI think it's "grillade" and it's indeed designating grilled meat
- HerculePoirot 3y agoNo it doesn't: GRILLADE, noun, feminine A. The act of grilling. "One also had to endure the smell of the kitchen, the heavy scent of wine in the sauces, the nauseating grilling of onions in the frying pan" (HUYSMANS, Marthe, 1876, p. 62). http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/visusel.exe?12;s=2974701480;r=1;nat=;sol=1; http://stella.atilf.fr/Dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/visusel.exe?12...
- Rels 3y agoYes it does, as shown by your own link. You translated the "A" part, which is the general definition. There is a "B" part dedicated to the definitions in the cooking domain, "CUISINE" is even spelled out in uppercase letters. The definitions there all refer to meat or fish. Also anecdotally as a French native, grillade = meat for me.
- HerculePoirot 3y agoIndeed ! But as pointed by the sample I provided, you can use that word to refer to the act of grilling vegetables, so there is no point in being overly particular about the use of the word grillade. If a word was already reserved for the designation of grilled vegetables, on the model of bus/car or train/tramway (ie /within a city/ vs /between cities/), I'd accept your argument. However what's discussed here is a case of legislators deciding what shape language should take, not usage !
- marmakoide 3y ago"grill" in France is used as an anglicism, ie. words imported straight from English, with the meaning sometime distorted beyond recognition. Here, it's used to imply that something have a flavor somewhat related to barbecue meat, say potatoes chips with "grill flavor".
- hk__2 3y ago> "grill" in France is used as an anglicism, ie. words imported straight from English, with the meaning sometime distorted beyond recognition That’s not that simple. The English word "grill" comes from the French "gril", a word that has been in used for more than a millenary. Only the orthography "grill" with two "l"s comes from English, but the rest is plain old French. It also makes sense: "gril" comes from "grille", which also gave "griller".
- makapuf 3y ago- Grilled => adjective = grillé - Grill => noun => Grillade
- curiousgal 3y agoWhat's next? Rename Beefsteak tomatoes?
- Findecanor 3y agoThe French name for "beefsteak tomato" is indeed "Beef tomate" or "Bif tomate" but the French word for "beef" is "bœuf", so there's really no conflict there.
- nemo 3y agoThe ban is specific to the various processed artificial meat-like products, it does not apply to produce or other foods.
- dekken_ 3y agoGrilling isn't a meat thing tho, it's an operator. Arbitrary nonsense serves no one except those paid to put it in place.
- ben_w 3y agoYeah, but that's also true for "filleting", and yet: https://www.quorn.us/products/quorn-vegan-meatless-chicken-fillets https://www.quorn.us/products/quorn-vegan-meatless-chicken-f...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ben_w 3y agoRemember: it's only a "hamburger" if it's from the Hamburg region, otherwise it's just a sparkling fried patty. Joking aside, I need to see if I can make spicy bean burgers at home — they were a thing back in the UK that I can't seem to find since moving.
- KronisLV 3y ago> I need to see if I can make spicy bean burgers at home — they were a thing back in the UK that I can't seem to find since moving. I wouldn't call myself a vegetarian per se, but I've explored more foods without meat in the past years, and it's been quite pleasant! Actually, even when I was a student, this burger chain that we have here had what they call VEKE burgers, which were also somehow cheaper than burgers with meat, and also tasty: https://www.hesburger.com/products/hamburgers/veke---cheese-veggie-burger https://www.hesburger.com/products/hamburgers/veke---cheese-... I actually tried making some bean burgers myself recently - which went pretty okay for an experiment. You do need something that adds a bit of a crunch in the recipe though, like some bread crumbs on the outside, and things can be a bit dry depending on how you make them, so adding onion, tomato, cucumbers etc. to the burger itself in ample amounts is also a good idea! Can't really talk about France or the naming idea in the article, but exploring all sorts of foods is nice! Even the plant based "milk" varieties are interesting, especially since regular lactose free milk isn't something you always find over here, at least not in all stores.
- helsinkiandrew 3y agoAnd “meat” comes from the old English “mete” which meant any food. Ahh I too have fond memories of Wimpy/Burger King Spicy Bean Burgers
- romanshrompsky 3y agothis is going overboard. France has already made a national decree [1] stating that terminology specific to sectors traditionally associated with meat and fish to designate products not belonging to the animal kingdom. I'm not sure what this adds to the applicable law already. But then again, we love creating new laws. [1] (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000045978360 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000045978360)
- gustavus 3y agoIt's interesting because I saw an article just yesterday where someone was taking corporations to task for misleading or fudged information on packaging. Yet it seems many people are opposed to this. Curious
- mcpackieh 3y agoVegans motivated by ethical arguments think that tricking consumers is a lesser evil than eating meat, therefore the ends justify the means. This explains their apparent hypocrisy.
- harimau777 3y agoExcept that people aren't tricking consumers. Vegan meats are clearly labeled; usually in their own section of the grocery store. The only instance where manufacturers try to trick consumers are hamburgers that are part meat and part soy; and those aren't vegan or vegetarian to being with.
- mcpackieh 3y ago> Vegan meats are clearly labeled; usually in their own section of the grocery store. Not so at many stores and with many brands. Trader joes has tricked me two or three times, now I know to read all product packages carefully. [This is the point where you insult me for shopping while groggy and not paying close enough attention!] If these food producers aren't being deceptive, then the law won't effect them or their bottom line. But of course they are, so it will.
- mrguyorama 3y agoLol non of the fake meat companies are in it for "ethics", what are you on about? I'm not convinced this is entirely meritless either. The packages of meat-replacements are usually right next to the ground beef in my store, and it's not trivial to pick them out from the just "Artisanal" ground beef products, unless you pick up and carefully read each and every package. Maybe they need a protected word they can use to clearly self label as a meatless product.
- mrits 3y agoThe next enlightenment has begun
- shortrounddev2 3y agoFrance is a bizarre country to me. In the US, they are often the archetypal left-wing country in terms of economic policy and the size of the state, but culturally and socially they seem very conservative. Somehow a country which has its own English-language Wikipedia article for threesomes is also a country that aligns with Texas on its opinions toward meat
- hk__2 3y agoDon’t judge a country from a single governement decree.
- shortrounddev2 3y agoFrance has democracy do they not? They voted for the government. This also isn't a new thing; France has been legislating what people are allowed to wear in what contexts for a while. Ironically, in many contexts you are required to wear less clothes, such as at the beach or in a swimming pool. It's a kind of "liberalism, or else" type policy
- hk__2 3y ago> France has democracy do they not? Democracy is not a binary thing, that’s here or not here. It’s a spectrum. Yes, last time the French people had to vote and had the choice between someone they really didn’t want and someone they didn’t really want but had no choice they voted for the later. Does that make every governement decree an expression of the French people as a whole? Of course not. Decrees like this tell you more about the political power of the meat industry than anything about the culture of the country. > Ironically, in many contexts you are required to wear less clothes, such as at the beach or in a swimming pool. Citation needed. There isn’t any law requiring you to wear less clothes on the beach; it would be ridicule and contrary to the Constitution.
- shortrounddev2 3y agoturns out you are correct about beaches, the french beach burkini ban was a local ordinance which was thrown out. However, swimming pools still require less clothing: Burkini ban: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/france-court-rules-burkini-swimwear-religious-reasons-rcna34833 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/france-court-rules-burkin... And in that article, on swimming pools: > Clothing rules in public pools in France are strict, for what authorities say are reasons of hygiene: caps are required, and baggy swim trunks or other voluminous clothing is generally banned. Wetsuits are not allowed in many pools too, as are some sun-protection suits. Officially this is a matter of public health, but it's a pseudo-scientific law that likely has more to do with French culture and national identity as a more libertine place (or else)
- gwbas1c 3y agoI married a vegan. We really hate "plant meats." The issue is that my wife hates the flavor and texture of meat; and the "plant meat" industry is really trying to shove traditional vegan proteins out of the way. It's a familiar refrain for us to show up at a restaurant that used to have a tasty veggie burger, only to have the staff complain that it's been replaced with a "plant meat" that, to my wife who doesn't like meat, is just gross. IMO: I think "plant meat" is an idea that's ready to die. I'd rather eat real vegetarian food when I eat plants, and cultivated animal tissue as sustainable meat.
- shortrounddev2 3y agoMy wife and I are both vegan and we eat all the plant meats. I'm the opposite from you: If I go to a restaurant with a veggie burger and it literally tastes like vegetables I'll probably never go there again. I tried the veggie burger at shake shack, and it's definitely not for me. I go there for the fries only now, until they get a beyond or impossible burger
- anonzzzies 3y agoI like both, but on different days. Sometimes I feel like lentil /mushroom burgers (I am good at making them nicely, but they just don’t have the same texture or taste as meat which is fine; I often like them better than the meat ones) and sometimes I want beyond or impossible or vegetarische slager.
- chubot 3y agoThat’s funny, I’m not vegetarian but I like veggie burgers, and the shake shack one is the one I like I think they have both plant meat and real veggie burgers at different shake shacks, and I always look for the real one
- prmoustache 3y agoI am not sure why you are vegan in the first place if you are looking for meaty stuff?
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- mcpackieh 3y agoNice to see a crackdown on deceptive advertising. These rules won't be a problem for anybody except those trying to trick consumers.
- hk__2 3y ago> These rules won't be a problem for anybody except those trying to trick consumers. But companies selling "vegan sausages" or "vegetable steak" aren’t trying to trick anyone, they just sell an alternative to a common meat-based product and so call it that way. It would be like forbidding e-cigarettes to be called "cigarettes" just because they’re not the same thing. Edit: according to this comment they do try to trick consumers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37392099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37392099
- danielbln 3y agoWe have the same idiotic legislation in Germany, forbidding "confusing" language like calling oat milk "milk", because clearly only liquid squeezed from an utter constitutes milk (don't mind coconut milk..) and so producers have to call it oat drink, even though every single consumer just calls it oat milk anyway. Some other regulations exist for meat-like products, clearly put in place by protectionism of the dairy and meat industry under the guise of "not confusing consumers". Oh well.
- qwertox 3y agoI see no problem in "oat drink" vs. "oat milk". To me there's a difference in it, even if we have words like "Scheuermilch" (scouring milk) and milk also has a definition as "milky white opaque substances" which an oat drink is.
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- shawabawa3 3y agoyou seem to be arguing backwards > I see no problem in "oat drink" vs "oat milk" Sounds like you think it's ok they forced the name change to "oat drink" > milk also has a definition as "milky white opaque substances" which an oat drink is Sounds like you think the name should have stayed as "oat milk"
- qwertox 3y agoNo, I'm being fair towards those who are in favor of "oat milk". But I have zero issues with it being forced to be named "oat drink" and I prefer it this way. In my case because they taste completely different. An oat drink requires added sugar for it to even be tasty to me.
- treis 3y agoOat milk companies aren't trying to trick consumers. We drink Coconut milk and the box has two big coconuts in the middle. The only mention of milk is relatively small text towards the bottom of the box. The vegetarian sausage/patties and similar sorts of products do the reverse. They mimick meat products as closely as they can and relegate the vegetarian part to the small text. It's a basic truth in advertising/fraud thing. Obviously not a mind reader but sure looks like these companies are at some level trying to trick people into buying their product.
- xdennis 3y agoMakes sense. Twice I bought vegan products thinking they weren't fake. They need to be clearly labeled. To people who think otherwise, how would you like it if I sold real sausages as "vegan sausages"? If you can call plants "bacon", you should be able to call meat "vegan", right?
- wink 3y agoThen it's probably a case for a complaint to your local consumer protection org. It's not about calling it "sausage" without a qualifier. To most people sausage only describes the shape and you need to read the ingredients anyway, but of course if it's "beef sausage" it shouldn't have pork and "vegan sausage" should indicate no animal products. I don't see how common sense should not prevail here?
- NickM 3y agoI'm not a vegetarian but I like to eat fake meat burgers and stuff like that, and it's really weird to me how sensitive some people get about this. I have friends who get genuinely mad that they call fake meat products "meat" because "it's not meat and they should call it something else". Nobody seems to actually be confused into thinking these products came from an animal, though, and the labeling does not seem to be designed to fool anyone. If the taste is designed to mimic a cow burger, then calling it a burger is genuinely descriptive. When I point this out though, people just switch gears and start making up other arguments instead. The emotional response seems to be coming from somewhere else, but I haven't figured out where.
- ghusto 3y ago> Nobody seems to actually be confused into thinking these products came from an animal, though, and the labeling does not seem to be designed to fool anyone. Multiple people here have, presumably because it is
- danielbln 3y agoOften the root cause ia cognitive dissonance. A large portion of the populace doesn't want to be reminded where their meat actually comes from, and prefers to not think about it. Confronting them with the notion of non-animal "meat" forces them to face that dissonance.
- taylodl 3y agoMy family has even introduced new words for some of these meatless products such as facon for the plant-based bacon, soysage for the plant-based sausage, and not dogs for the plant-based hot dogs. We've been eating these products for decades, along with the "traditional" vegetarian proteins. Meanwhile, hamburgers aren't burgers made from ham, and milk is a word used to describe a liquid available from several animal and plant sources. People are losing their minds over trivial nonsense. It's the phenomenon of our time.
- ravenstine 3y agoMany people don't question why we have words for things, and speak as if there's some word-particle or word-god that determined what all words mean, as opposed to words having uses that grow and evolve as humans grow and evolve. There will always be that form of concrete thinking, but I think the sort of rote-style learning in American schools is in part responsible for otherwise intelligent individuals believing that American cheese is a lie because "it's not cultured therefor it's not cheese!" Perhaps I don't care enough either way. Even if the metaphysics of language different such that words could only ever have one very specific immutable meaning, I can't imaging caring enough that I would object to something being referred to as "oat milk."
- lopis 3y agoI agree. The poor, poor consumers are confused and we need to help them. We should ban all euphemisms and metaphors in food. Sausage? No, leftover-meat-and-cartilage-stuffed-pork-intestines. On a serious note, an obvious solution to prevent consumers from being confused in their tiny little precious heads is a EU-wide standard vegan/vegetarian label and make it mandatory in any vegetarian analogues. But of course this isn't about consumers at all, no one ever bought a vegan patty thinking they were buying beef.
- anonzzzies 3y ago> no one ever bought a vegan patty thinking they were buying beef. I know people who did, but this is a crime? You cannot read and think properly, maybe you should not be allowed out?
- xdennis 3y ago> But of course this isn't about consumers at all, no one ever bought a vegan patty thinking they were buying beef. I bought vegan sausages thinking they were real. They were placed next to real sausages and I thought I should try something new. I'm sure geniuses like you always read the full packaging before buying but poor untermenschen like me need protection from capitalists who sell us vegan poison. But of course you would oppose that, because if consumers made informed choices hardly anyone would buy vegan stuff. It's the reason people sell shoes labeled Niko or Abibas.
- lopis 3y agoThat's why I said vegan food should be clearly labeled. Everyone benefits. Vegans love the labels and people that don't read what they are buying can avoid being mislead by their own negligence.
- xigoi 3y agoBut also, vegan food that tries to imitate meat should be distinguished from vegan food that doesn't try to imitate meat.
- montenegrohugo 3y agoThis doesn't feel like legislation meant to protect the consumer, at all.
- kshahkshah 3y agoI read this as a cultural protection. France has a very strong food culture and they've decided that names matter.
- Shrezzing 3y ago> French farmers and meat companies have long complained that customers are unjustly confused by the notion of vegetarian “meat”. I'd be really interested in meeting someone who was legitimately confused by the notion vegetarian meat. How poor would someone's lateral thinking skills need to be that they can't manage to square "vegetarian meat" on the fly?
- Aromasin 3y agoIt's simple Doublespeak. This has nothing to do with protecting consumers. It has everything to do with vegan products eating into the animal-agri industries bottom line, and them using every cheap political trick in the book to slow that. They'll be demanding that they take a separate section in the back of the supermarket next. Then, lobbying to make sure that a certain percentage of plants grown must go to animal agriculture for "tradition and heritage" or some such shite. I'm sure banning plant-based meat alternatives is somewhere on the wish list too.
- nathanaldensr 3y agoDo you have evidence they are eating into the bottom line? It's my impression that these two classifications of food sell to very different markets. I myself would never buy any vegan "meat" product.
- myshpa 3y agohttps://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/auf-wiedersehen-schnitzel-meat-consumption-hits-record-low-in-germany https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/28/auf-wiedersehen-schnitze... Auf Wiedersehen Schnitzel: Meat consumption hits record low in Germany More and more Germans are swapping meat products for plant-based proteins, according to Germany's Ministry for Agriculture, but not everyone is ready to give them up. Today 10 per cent of Germans opt for plant-based foods compared to six per cent in 2018. https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(23)00347-0 https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(23)00347-... Public policies and vested interests preserve the animal farming status quo at the expense of animal product analogs
- mabbo 3y agoI'm still hopeful about the promise of plant-based meat products. The rainforest is burning (or rather it's being burned) so that the world can have more and more beef. We cannot sustain the entire world having a Western diet of way too much animal protein. And I say that as a guy who loves a good steak. We need to cut back, and we'd be healthier if we did. I truly want to see a world where plant-based is cheaper and tastes even better than real meat. Why oh why does France want to fight this? No one is being 'fooled'. It's just a meat industry lobbying law to fight competition.
- ravenstine 3y agoI certainly don't want rainforests to be destroyed, but what's the evidence that the the world can't sustain eating a diet of "way too much" protein? > We need to cut back, and we'd be healthier if we did. Why do you think that meat is the problem when it comes to health? > I truly want to see a world where plant-based is cheaper and tastes even better than real meat. I would not object to this, so long as the meat substitute is also as nutritious as real meat, or at least less nutritionally-offensive than current meat substitutes. Current generation plant-based meat are not only less nutritious than real meat but contain ingredients that people have no business consuming if they can avoid it.
- jinpa_zangpo 3y agoWhy is soy milk any more confusing than peanut butter?
- ben_w 3y agoI know this isn't quite what you meant, but I know a dog by the name Chorizo, and every time I see a soy chorizo in a supermarket, I can't help but imagine him in a sombrero introducing himself in Spanish. I agree with the actual point you're making — though I can imagine a DnD-style alignment chart with one axis for substance purity and the other for functional equivalence, such a chart has both soy milk and peanut butter in the "functional purity, ingredient rebel" corner.
- danielbln 3y agoFun fact: it's not allowed to call peanut butter "butter" for the same reason.
- ghusto 3y agoFunny you should ask, because peanut butter is called peanut cheese in the Netherlands. Becaaaaaause: https://www.tastingtable.com/893109/the-unique-history-behind-the-dutch-word-for-peanut-butter/ https://www.tastingtable.com/893109/the-unique-history-behin...
- matthewfelgate 3y ago̶l̶i̶b̶e̶r̶t̶y̶, equality, fraternity
- Aromasin 3y agoThis quote puts it quite succinctly: “Do people confuse motor oil, olive oil and jojoba oil? I think not. No more than they confuse vegan steak from beef steak.” The same thing as in France has happened in the UK. Social media was inundated with tweed-wearing, flat-cap touting, Jeremy Clarkson idolizers who seemed utterly outraged at the idea of someone using "sausage" to describe something shaped and tasting like a sausage. Some so frothing berserk over the idea, that you'd think that plant-based food producers were planning to take these people's children in the night and make sausages out of them. Utterly unhinged. It's Orwellian newspeak in a new form; just driven by lobbyists and think-tanks from the animal agriculture industry, rather than the Party. The language came organically and is being clamped down artificially. It's pathetic, and I despise the fact our supposedly "liberal" governments are backing into this pressure. People should be able to call their food whatever they want provided the ingredients are included on the package. No one needs "protecting" from this, and the value-add to society is less than the cost of ink that went into signing the policy; probably less that the computing power required to type this comment.
- gus_massa 3y agoPeople get confused. I once bought "I can't believe it's not <huge><bold>Butter</bold></huge>" https://www.google.com/search?q=i+can%27t+believe+it%27s+not+butter&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=i+can%27t+believe+it%27s+not... and I was unhappy when I realized the trick.
- harimau777 3y agoI think that it makes the most sense to use existing truth in advertising laws to decide on a case by case basis. If a product's branding is setup to create confusion like that, then I think it's reasonable to sanction the company. A similar gray area I've seen is a vegan chicken product called something like "chikn"; overall I doubt it confused people much, but I wouldn't be opposed to the government telling them to name it something else. However, I don't think this sort of law that tries to proscribe for every situation is needed. The majority of vegan meats that I've seen have been obvious.
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- kshahkshah 3y agoA lot of commenters here don't seem to get it. France has a strong culture, and a strong food culture in particular. They've determined as a society that they wish to protect it and therefore names of things, matter.
- wink 3y agoSame discussion in Germany and I wouldn't say we have a strong (food) culture, surely not to the same level as France. This is simply protectionism by the food lobby, I know zero people who take offense at calling oat milk oat milk.
- sixstringtheory 3y agoAs an outsider I would say Germany has just as recognizable of a food culture, and nearly as much of an alcohol culture.
- ghusto 3y agoThis is a bit racist, but you'll likely find that those who don't get it are Americans. And it's not so much that they don't get it, but rather that _every goddamn thing is a fight with these guys_. You can't just have an opposing opinion that can be thought about, you have to be wrong, and then beaten.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago…this is an article about France
- ralferoo 3y agoI understand why vegans want meat-free foods, and I support them in that. As a meat-lover, I'm happy to admit that there are some amazing vegetable-only dishes. I've absolutely no idea why they do their very best to pass their stuff off as meat. I've seen things in the sandwich fridge in supermarkets with massive high-contrast letters saying CHICKEN and then in a tiny, barely legible yellow on light background "plant-based" above it. This kind of nonsense doesn't help vegetarians find the non-meat options available to them, and it just annoys people who want an actual chicken sandwich and they bite into it and find something else. Some people love the idea of plant-based food, others don't. Let them make an informed decision, don't let companies rely on trickery to sell stuff. Of course, there's the aspect to this that it's a lot cheaper to make something out of chickpeas than meat, so they're probably relying on people buying it in error and paying what they think is a fair price for a meat sandwich rather than realising it's an over-inflated price for what the food actually is.
- ravenstine 3y agoI don't find it confusing. Plenty of vegans are vegan because of ethics but still miss the taste of meat, so substitutes make perfect sense. It also makes sense from a recruiting standpoint. There's a cultish aspect to veganism, which is why vegans are notorious for announcing that they are vegan, and they need new members to join their religion in order to maintain their sense of superiority. Their thought is that if meat eaters can be satisfied by fake plant-based meat that they might give up eating meat and become vegan.
- dirtyid 3y agoThey want to convert more meat eaters, or at least get larger addressable markets to to try. Which is fine by me. Instead of meat industry bitching and legistlating vegetarian products co-opting meaty language, IMO meat products should just slap on MEAT BASED in big letters.
- version_five 3y agoEuropeans generally take food and branding seriously. There was an article recently about how some Miller High life beer, a low end beer, was not allowed into Belgium because their slogan is "The Champagne of Beers" https://www.npr.org/2023/04/22/1171460421/miller-beer-champagne-cans-destroyed https://www.npr.org/2023/04/22/1171460421/miller-beer-champa... It's a cultural difference but seems like a fine one that just emphasizes food quality. People are just upset because they think vegetarians should have some special status and don't like anything that opposes such an agenda.
- wink 3y agoNot sure this is a good example because those "fancy words reserved for thing from specific origin" has nothing to do what most people want.
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoNot gonna get excited that the French are particular about language to the point of foolishness. Old news.
- foul 3y ago"Cordon blur", appreciated the wordplay
- ghusto 3y agoUnpopular take, but; good. If you're going to go vegan/vegetarian, just _go_ for it. Stop pining for things you can't have. No, nothing that is not steak will taste like steak — and there's nothing wrong with that! A vegetarian diet can be delicious and good for you. Own it. I get that it should be obvious, but I've more than once picked up a "steak" with heavy double quotes.
- lopis 3y agoOr maybe I should just eat whatever I want? Why do you get to dictate what people that don't eat meat should eat, specially for ethical reasons? Logs of vegans still like meat. We weren't born vegan, and didn't become vegan out of hate of the food.
- karmakaze 3y agoI approve, as I also like the distinction of "tisane" being only an infusion vs "thé" which is one made from the tea plant. We'll likely need more distinctions as we also have lab-grown as well as plant-based containing heme so is like meat in composition not source. For someone avoiding red meats for health reasons may also want to avoid these.