8 ms·

The curious case of hybrids in watchmaking

126 points by archagon 3y ago

submeta 3y ago
> Autonomy isn’t the only thing that matters when comparing mechanical to quartz. says the caption beneath a photograph of a „A. Lange & Söhne with a 31-day power reserve“ So there’s the notion that —-in case your air plaine crashes and you land on a desert island—- a quartz watch‘s battery will drain in 5 years and you’re left without a watch, but the thing is: A mechanical watch needs to be serviced every five years (taken apart, lubricated). But I agree: A mechanical watch is infinitely more appealing than a quartz. Considering how minuscule the parts are, what a Meisterleistung it is to produce something that works for decades. I also find the idea very appealing to have objects that can outlive their owners: Furniture, writing instruments, mechanical watches.
- vesinisa 3y ago
  There exist specialized quartz watches with battery lifes in the 15 years range - I am sure if there was any real demand it would be possible to build a digital watch that can survive a century without any service. While I appreciate the craft, let us not pretend the demand for mechanical watches in the modern day is nothing but a luxury vanity driven buy wealthy people with way too much money to spare.
- rdl 3y ago
  For this “desert island” use case, a solar powered quartz watch seems like it would work the longest, of COTS options today (although a mechanical watch might be fine without servicing). Of course, my favorite watch in this case would be something like the Breitling Emergency (https://www.breitling.com/us-en/emergency/ https://www.breitling.com/us-en/emergency/) which could call for rescue. Looking forward to a satellite connectivity version in the future — iPhones are able to do this now, so something like the Apple Watch Ultra 2 may be able to.
  - trillic 3y ago
    I’ve got a 20 year old G-shock with solar that’s never been serviced that’s been worn for thousands of miles of offshore sailing. It gets the time every day at 3am from some 60kHZ radio signal in Colorado and as long as I wear it a few times a year all day in the sun, it never dies. Its time has been within ~500ms of GPS time continuously since 2004. I leave it on a small metal rack near a south facing window with the antenna touching the rack for increased reception of the nightly time calibration, and a bit of solar in the morning. One day it will die, or some of the rubber on it will rip and I will replace it with the same model from Casio. It’s still only ~$100 and looks identical just with a new battery and more modern antenna/electronics. Hoping for an EPIRB on my wrist or maybe even just a 162 MHz emergency AIS transmitter that fits on the wrist sometime in the next 5 years.
- throw0101a 3y ago
  > So there’s the notion that —-in case your air plaine crashes and you land on a desert island—- a quartz watch‘s battery will drain in 5 years and you’re left without a watch, but the thing is: A mechanical watch needs to be serviced every five years (taken apart, lubricated). Except if you get a watch with Citizen's Eco-Drive, which is where the power comes from ambient light and not a battery: * https://www.citizenwatch.com/ca/en/technology-eco-drive.html https://www.citizenwatch.com/ca/en/technology-eco-drive.html
  - akavel 3y ago
    I own a Casio solar (brand name "Tough Solar") watch, which is generally the same technology IIUC. I believe they indeed have long life, but there is actually still something of a "battery" inside (specifically, I think a kind of a capacitor, though not 100% sure), which still has some life expectancy and a number of cycles it can survive. Not to mention that even this kind of a watch has a number of potential other failure modes as well... just recently I stumbled and dropped it, and the back-plate sprung away. Surprisingly, even a watchmaker took a while to put it back in, and was similarly mildly amused that what looked like a trivial job proved to not be exactly so. That said, it was more of a suit watch, totally not a G-Shock.
    - stateofinquiry 3y ago
      Some data: I had a "Tough Solar" G shock for field work- it was very long lasting. I got it in 2002 (if memory serves) and it lasted about a dozen years. By that point the capacitor could not hold a charge very long at all, and it became unusable. I set it aside and a few year later the rubber bits fell apart including stuff around the case. I'd say by 15y it was totally toast. Not bad considering I never did a single bit of service on it, but definitely a reminder that time always wins in the end. Even when it comes to your timepiece!
    - Animats 3y ago
      G-Shock basically solved the what-time-is-it problem when they got ruggedness, solar power, and remote time signal update into a cheap package. Expensive watches that don't have those features are jewelry.
- mchanson 3y ago
  If you were stranded on the desert island, what would you need to watch for?
  - Dr_Birdbrain 3y ago
    Watches can be used to find fresh water sources. (Joking, of course you are completely correct)
  - submeta 3y ago
    Well, you can navigate with the help of the sun. And keep sane having some sort of structure (when to wake up, when to go to bed, when to eat), monitor tidal changes. There is lots of value in knowing the time, even on a desert island.
    - hirundo 3y ago
      > And keep sane having some sort of structure (when to wake up, when to go to bed, when to eat) Without other people to coordinate with, the signals from the environment and your body are a more sound structure for these. The time of day is at best a good proxy.
    - jlg23 3y ago
      > And keep sane having some sort of structure (when to wake up, when to go to bed, when to eat), monitor tidal changes. Though you could just stick a piece of wood into the sand, mark shadows thrown at sunrise sunset and divide the circle's span however you want for your time system..
      - akdor1154 3y ago
        My desert island will be a metric time paradise.
  - bazzargh 3y ago
    timing cooking hardboiled seagull eggs as an approximate compass, if it has an hour hand (bisect the angle between the hour hand and noon, that's north or south, depending on your latitude, unless you're in the tropics where this doesn't work) as a heliograph to flash signals to passing ships if there's a date magnifier, you can use it to light fires the engraving on the back may help identify your sun-bleached bones ("So, this poor devil was named WATER RESISTANT")
- hollander 3y ago
  I have a Seiko watch with capacitor charged by movement that worked for 18 years and it was't finished completely but it depleted in one or two days. It's a pity they stopped with this technique.
- Dr_Birdbrain 3y ago
  My father has a mechanical watch that he bought in the 70s and he has never serviced it. A Jaeger LeCoultre Memovox, a thing of beauty.
- cainxinth 3y ago
  > but the thing is: A mechanical watch needs to be serviced every five years (taken apart, lubricated). A mechanical watch should be serviced about every five years. That doesn’t mean they magically stop working if you don’t. I have an inherited Omega from the 60s that hasn’t been serviced in decades and it still runs and keeps good time.
  - tadzik_ 3y ago
    Yep. I recently serviced a Tissot from the late 1930s – it was running fine, it was just a reasonable thing to do after all these years to prolong its lifespan. You wouldn't be able to tell that it needs a service without looking at timegrapher readings.
  - WillAdams 3y ago
    Yes, but as a counterpoint, I have a vintage Seiko of my father which missed one too many servicings and now has a broken date wheel (but otherwise works perfectly). If I could find someone to fix it, I'd wear it special occasions (my day-to-day is a Solar Seiko) often enough to keep it wound and _would_ get it serviced every 5 years.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jacquesm 3y ago
  If I land on a desert island the very last thing I need is a watch. A watch is there to be able to synchronize with outside events, and those are in short supply on a desert island. If there are no other people that you need to meet, trains whose time tables matter or ships that need conning you don't need a watch. I'd trade you my watch for a book of matches or some canned food.
  - nordsieck 3y ago
    > If I land on a desert island the very last thing I need is a watch. A watch is there to be able to synchronize with outside events, and those are in short supply on a desert island. If there are no other people that you need to meet, trains whose time tables matter or ships that need conning you don't need a watch. A watch lets you calculate longitude, which could be very valuable indeed. There's a reason why accurate time keeping was one of the holy grails during the age of sail.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Why would it be useful to you to be able to calculate longitude on a desert island?
      - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
        I suppose you could use it to work out where you need to go as you attempt to sail across the Pacific in your improvised raft?
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Good luck :) I just hope I brought enough books or a musical instrument with me. I'll be fine. And if not, oh well, there are much worse places to be than a desert island, with or without a watch. The thing you don't want to find out is that what you thought was a desert island is in fact inhabited by some tribe that thinks you might be tasty.
      - WillAdams 3y ago
- mhb 3y ago
  objects that can outlive their owners parrots, tortoises
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  I honestly find mechanical watches quite ugly, irrespective of cost, brand, or notoriety. To my eyes there's something inescapably crude about mechanical design with moving metal parts. It's still present when there are tiny components with even tinier tolerances.
criddell 3y ago
> The 700P was accurate to +/- 1 second per day, way beyond the reach of any mechanical calibre without electronic assistance. That’s true, except for Zenith Defy Lab. It is purely mechanical and has a +/- 0.3s per day.
- ooterness 3y ago
  I'm still waiting for a watch with a chip-scale atomic clock. Typical accuracy on current-generation systems is ~0.1 msec/day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip-scale_atomic_clock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip-scale_atomic_clock
  - maratc 3y ago
    If being exact to the extreme is your thing, you may look into either high-frequency quartz (these are exact to within seconds a year), or any bluetooth-adjusted Casio (these will quietly sync with your phone several times a day, and your phone is synced to an atomic clock).
speakspokespok 3y ago
the battery is there to minimize drift not act as a power supplement?
gerikson 3y ago
Seiko used to have a series of watches called Kinetic, where an oscillating weight charged a capacitor or battery. Weird that it's not mentioned in the article, as it seems to be just what's under discussion. The issue is essentially solved for quartz, even Casio's electro-mechanic models can be powered by ambient light. Edited, Seiko, not Citizen.
- inhumantsar 3y ago
  The article is about hybrid electronic and mechanical timekeeping though, not energy source. While it has an analog display and a mechanical power source, the Kinetic's timekeeping is purely quartz. The Spring Drive has mechanical timekeeping which is automatically regulated by quartz.
gorbypark 3y ago
I've recently become enamoured with the Seiko Spring Drive. I'm currently dreaming up (probably unrealistic) plans to try and DIY a Spring Drive type mechanism. I doubt I'd be able to actually make it fit in a real watch, but the goal is to have it at least working on a desk. More or less the plan is to rip out the balance wheel/escape wheel and pallet fork from an existing movement and try and rig up a permanent magnet on a wheel, then a small electro magnet connected to something like an Arduino and see if I can even get something like that to regulate the speed of the watch.
dadoge 3y ago
One of the more fascinating aspects of these is how smooth the second hand movement is. Second hands on Quartz jump once / second. This is to lengthen the battery life. On mechanical watches, they are smoother than Quartz since the escapement releases power multiple times / sec. But still ever so slightly jumpy since power is still released in discrete increments. Spring Drive is outta this world smooth…it can do this since battery life is not an issue since it’s mechanically generated power that can be rewound…for practical purposes, it is releasing power continuously, see for yourself here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcHA5rBQxQc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcHA5rBQxQc
- adrian_b 3y ago
  While most quartz watches use cheaper stepping motors, there are also quartz watches which use synchronous motors, so the hands have a perfectly uniform and noiseless rotation movement. I had some big wall clocks of this kind, and my father had such wrist watches. The energy consumption of synchronous motors is lower, because they only have to overcome the friction forces, without having to also accelerate the mass of the hands.
  - dadoge 3y ago
    I have a clock that is smooth. Bigger batteries help with that, compared to a small wristwatch battery. A quartz wristwatch with a smooth seconds hand? How long does the battery last?
    - adrian_b 3y ago
      I am not sure, because that was some years ago, when my father, who used the watch, was still alive, but in any case the battery lasted at least a year.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    Yeah, not that I perceive it to be an assumption that is entirely illogical, but why is smooth movement supposed to consume more power? I can understand that jumping less often conserves power but the power hierarchy should be more ticks > less ticks > no ticks, if we ignore potential increased frictions at lower angular velocity as well as challenges of resisting disturbances.
mkoryak 3y ago
For those of you with expensive watches (5000usd+): Do you wear it every day? Does it impact your plans ie "I shouldn't wear it today because I might be targeted for a robbery"? What is the reason you bought an expensive watch when there are plenty not expensive watches that are good at "time"? Would you consider yourself "well off?" Thanks :)
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Expensive is relative to where you live.
  - criddell 3y ago
    If you bought a Submariner in 2013, you could sell it today for more than you paid. From some perspectives, that Rolex is less expensive than a similar Timex or Casio.
- sschueller 3y ago
  In Switzerland I don't think there is any such thought. I see crazy expensive time pieces on people's wrists and no one give as hoot other than watch enthusiasts. I don't currently own a watch over 5k but if I where to purchase such a piece it would be for the craftsmanship and the beauty of the mechanics. However you would never find me wearing a Rolex which is a mass produced status symbol IMO.
- ohpls 3y ago
  I currently don't own a >=5k but I have previously, my currently daily is 3.5k (GBP). > Do you wear it every day? > Does it impact my plans? I do wear it almost daily but it does vary, if I'm doing anything manual (gardening, working on my bike, painting/decorating) then I'll either not wear it or take it off during those activities where I'm likely bound to bash my wrist against something. I'll often swap it out for one of my other cheaper ones sometimes. > Why? I've liked watches for God knows how long and I was fortunate to work at a luxury watch shop where I got some great discounts. I've always said my collection is my funeral fund for once I go! > Do I consider myself "well off"? Personally, no. I just make very bad financial decisions.
CraigJPerry 3y ago
Hybrid watches are pretty appealing, i can imagine they unlock a market of people that just can’t get past mechanical watches are a bit crap at their primary function. High end watches are somewhat appealing - the craftsmanship & precision engineering appeal (although today even most high end stuff is machine assembled i think?). Still there’s that huge sting in the tail… they’re just not great timepieces[1]. Your (network connected) phone is going to be more accurate. I can’t help feel like an absolute plum if i were to part with 5k+ for a watch with less accuracy than an £8 Casio. The article talks about spring drive and that i can get behind, the constant smooth movement is mesmerising, the accuracy is entirely respectable and it charges itself just by wearing so you still get the benefits of an automatic. Then, depending on the model you choose, you get a hand-finished casing that uses a polishing technique that takes a craftsman years to qualify in. To top it all off, these GS spring drives are some of the cheapest “high horology” options out there. I’m sold… [1] one exception, i’ll never be able to own one, but the H. Moser & Cie “Swiss Alp Watch” which i think i like mostly for the complete absurdity of everything about it
- bayindirh 3y ago
  As Teddy Baldassare puts it "Mechanical Watches are expensive toys". And as an owner of a couple of mechanical watches which I use daily, I'm pretty aware of it. However, wearing a mechanical watch makes me happy. It's a fascinating thing to keep time completely mechanically, and creates a nice counterbalance in my life filled with electronics. Another similar item is fountain pens.
  - bradrn 3y ago
    > Another similar item is fountain pens. Can’t say anything about mechanical watches, but I’ll disagree with this: in my experience, fountain pens aren’t just toys. I was given a fountain pen a few years ago, and I immediately found it made my hand hurt less when writing, because I didn’t need to press nearly as hard. Since then I’ve found a few models of gel pens which are similar in this regard, but when it comes to handwriting, I still find fountain pens to be by far the most comfortable for me.
bitcurious 3y ago
Great article! I think missing a bit of framing. When I got really into watches, this is how I came to think of it. Fundamentally, a watch has three parts, and you can play with all three, which results in fun combinations and unique/dead end lineages. 1. a power supply - the most common are either a mainspring (mechanical) or a battery (electronic). You can play around with how you power both - mainsprings can be manually wound, self-winding through wear (a weight moves around and winds it). Outside of the wristwatch world there are other cool winding mechanisms, such as air pressure variation. With electronic ones the basic options are replaceable, self-charging through motion, self charging through sunlight, or directly rechargeable. 2. an oscillator - the most common are a quartz crystal (electronic) or a hairspring (mechanical), but there are some other oddball ones out there. Most of the innovation here is around making the performance temperature/humidity/position agnostic, but at the high end there is a lot of play with new materials and architectures. 3. an interface - the most common is the 12 hour clock face (mechanical) or the LED digital interface (electronic). Although both can immediate the other, for example a jump-hour mechanical interface can resemble a digital clock. Here I think the fun stuff is mostly on the mechanical side - there are many, many cool "complications" which through some series of gears can allow a watch to also keep track of the day, month, moon cycle, day of week, year, leap year, tide (set locally), an alarm, or a a chime every hour. Of course you can do all of that digitally but I guess it feels less special What's really fun, which this article is focused on, are the combo watches. My three favorite lineages: Seiko Spring Drive watches are in the article - mechanical power supply, electronic oscillator. Bulova Acutron - electronic power supply, mechanical oscillator. This one is pretty special as the oscillator was a magnet-driven tuning fork. It was far ahead of its time in terms of accuracy, but of course a dead end as far as practicality goes. It has a cool but annoying property of audibly humming. Citizen Cosmotron - an electric power supply, mechanical oscillator. This is a more tradition hybrid, where the oscillator is a balance spring. This lineage has some neat engineering for setting the date+day of week - the orientation of the watch actually controls which complication you are working with, using the same button. Also this has a time-sync feature where you can snap the second hand to 12:00 with a press of the button and the watch pauses until you let go of said button. New mechanical oscillators: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-silicon-powered-speed-of-the-frederique-constant-slimline-monolithic-manufacture-40hz https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-silicon-powered-speed-... https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-lab-oscillator-introducing https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-lab-oscillator...
nickdothutton 3y ago
Was a bit disappointed not to see my Accutron in the post. Tuning fork, driven by electromagnets, feeding timing to traditional Swiss style mechanism. Eats batteries though.
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  Exactly! or the quartz controlled timex oscillators: https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-balance/ https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control... or the quartz tuningfork: https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-tuning-fork/ https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control... or indeed the new generation of accutrons with the electrostatic drive
amelius 3y ago
I wonder at what point in our societal evolution it will become accepted that men wear jewelry other than watches, just like women.
- isametry 3y ago
  And this is relevant to the article how?
- thih9 3y ago
  I recall seeing men with rings, piercings, bracelets, etc. Also, while somewhat bland in comparison, the men's section at tiffany's does exist [1]. [1]: https://www.tiffany.com/jewelry/shop/mens-jewelry/ https://www.tiffany.com/jewelry/shop/mens-jewelry/
  - amelius 3y ago
    Yeah, but it's not as widely accepted. Wearing such things can easily cost you points in a job interview, for example.
    - thih9 3y ago
      True, this happens. On the other hand, this is often the case for positions where you aren't allowed to wear jewellery or wouldn't want to wear jewellery anyway. I.e. wearing a nose ring for a dev interview in a corporation with a strict dress code - likely a bad idea. But in a casual agency - you might get bonus points, if anything.
      - jgalt212 3y ago
        agreed. until you're the boss, and probably even then, it never hurts (economically speaking) to dress the part.
mads 3y ago
I have one of those Ulysses Nardin phones in a drawer somewhere as I was working on the software part of it back in the days. The mechanical charging mechanism on the phone was basically a gimmick. You would probably have to shake it around for a few days to get the phone to even start again, if your oligarch plane crashed in the desert and your phone ran out of power.
KaiserPro 3y ago
The Spring drive is majestic, and generally wonderful. Get one if you can, they make smashing dress watches. The tool watch side is a bit lacking for my taste (either too thick, or have massive pushers for the chronograph.) However If you like "funky" movements, then I urge you all to check out this website here: https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/ https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/ (look at the drop down under movement types) There are watches you can buy for less than $300 that are controlled by a tuning fork. A no fooling humming tuning fork. Not only that, they are pretty accurate and easy to look after even by modern standards. They have wheels that have teeth that are 0.037mm apart. Your hair is 0.060mm wide. Then there are battery powered watches with moving balances. Then there are both styles with quartz regulators as well. Now if you want something a bit more modern, and less electric, there are silicon balances https://frederiqueconstant.com/monolithic/ https://frederiqueconstant.com/monolithic/ which are pretty wild. and finally plugging my own stuff: https://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/projects/electromechanical-clock/ https://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/projects/electromechanical-c... Which is a tuning fork controlled table clock using only discreet 7400 logic(more or less )
dusted 3y ago
I worked on the Ulysse Nardin Chairman phone, AMA. (I'll only answer things that won't get me into legal trouble)

126 points by archagon 3y ago

> Autonomy isn’t the only thing that matters when comparing mechanical to quartz. says the caption beneath a photograph of a „A. Lange & Söhne with a 31-day power reserve“ So there’s the notion that —-in case your air plaine crashes and you land on a desert island—- a quartz watch‘s battery will drain in 5 years and you’re left without a watch, but the thing is: A mechanical watch needs to be serviced every five years (taken apart, lubricated). But I agree: A mechanical watch is infinitely more appealing than a quartz. Considering how minuscule the parts are, what a Meisterleistung it is to produce something that works for decades. I also find the idea very appealing to have objects that can outlive their owners: Furniture, writing instruments, mechanical watches.

vesinisa 3y ago
There exist specialized quartz watches with battery lifes in the 15 years range - I am sure if there was any real demand it would be possible to build a digital watch that can survive a century without any service. While I appreciate the craft, let us not pretend the demand for mechanical watches in the modern day is nothing but a luxury vanity driven buy wealthy people with way too much money to spare.
rdl 3y ago
For this “desert island” use case, a solar powered quartz watch seems like it would work the longest, of COTS options today (although a mechanical watch might be fine without servicing). Of course, my favorite watch in this case would be something like the Breitling Emergency (https://www.breitling.com/us-en/emergency/ https://www.breitling.com/us-en/emergency/) which could call for rescue. Looking forward to a satellite connectivity version in the future — iPhones are able to do this now, so something like the Apple Watch Ultra 2 may be able to.
- trillic 3y ago
  I’ve got a 20 year old G-shock with solar that’s never been serviced that’s been worn for thousands of miles of offshore sailing. It gets the time every day at 3am from some 60kHZ radio signal in Colorado and as long as I wear it a few times a year all day in the sun, it never dies. Its time has been within ~500ms of GPS time continuously since 2004. I leave it on a small metal rack near a south facing window with the antenna touching the rack for increased reception of the nightly time calibration, and a bit of solar in the morning. One day it will die, or some of the rubber on it will rip and I will replace it with the same model from Casio. It’s still only ~$100 and looks identical just with a new battery and more modern antenna/electronics. Hoping for an EPIRB on my wrist or maybe even just a 162 MHz emergency AIS transmitter that fits on the wrist sometime in the next 5 years.
throw0101a 3y ago
> So there’s the notion that —-in case your air plaine crashes and you land on a desert island—- a quartz watch‘s battery will drain in 5 years and you’re left without a watch, but the thing is: A mechanical watch needs to be serviced every five years (taken apart, lubricated). Except if you get a watch with Citizen's Eco-Drive, which is where the power comes from ambient light and not a battery: * https://www.citizenwatch.com/ca/en/technology-eco-drive.html https://www.citizenwatch.com/ca/en/technology-eco-drive.html
- akavel 3y ago
  I own a Casio solar (brand name "Tough Solar") watch, which is generally the same technology IIUC. I believe they indeed have long life, but there is actually still something of a "battery" inside (specifically, I think a kind of a capacitor, though not 100% sure), which still has some life expectancy and a number of cycles it can survive. Not to mention that even this kind of a watch has a number of potential other failure modes as well... just recently I stumbled and dropped it, and the back-plate sprung away. Surprisingly, even a watchmaker took a while to put it back in, and was similarly mildly amused that what looked like a trivial job proved to not be exactly so. That said, it was more of a suit watch, totally not a G-Shock.
  - stateofinquiry 3y ago
    Some data: I had a "Tough Solar" G shock for field work- it was very long lasting. I got it in 2002 (if memory serves) and it lasted about a dozen years. By that point the capacitor could not hold a charge very long at all, and it became unusable. I set it aside and a few year later the rubber bits fell apart including stuff around the case. I'd say by 15y it was totally toast. Not bad considering I never did a single bit of service on it, but definitely a reminder that time always wins in the end. Even when it comes to your timepiece!
  - Animats 3y ago
    G-Shock basically solved the what-time-is-it problem when they got ruggedness, solar power, and remote time signal update into a cheap package. Expensive watches that don't have those features are jewelry.
mchanson 3y ago
If you were stranded on the desert island, what would you need to watch for?
- Dr_Birdbrain 3y ago
  Watches can be used to find fresh water sources. (Joking, of course you are completely correct)
- submeta 3y ago
  Well, you can navigate with the help of the sun. And keep sane having some sort of structure (when to wake up, when to go to bed, when to eat), monitor tidal changes. There is lots of value in knowing the time, even on a desert island.
  - hirundo 3y ago
    > And keep sane having some sort of structure (when to wake up, when to go to bed, when to eat) Without other people to coordinate with, the signals from the environment and your body are a more sound structure for these. The time of day is at best a good proxy.
  - jlg23 3y ago
    > And keep sane having some sort of structure (when to wake up, when to go to bed, when to eat), monitor tidal changes. Though you could just stick a piece of wood into the sand, mark shadows thrown at sunrise sunset and divide the circle's span however you want for your time system..
    - akdor1154 3y ago
      My desert island will be a metric time paradise.
- bazzargh 3y ago
  timing cooking hardboiled seagull eggs as an approximate compass, if it has an hour hand (bisect the angle between the hour hand and noon, that's north or south, depending on your latitude, unless you're in the tropics where this doesn't work) as a heliograph to flash signals to passing ships if there's a date magnifier, you can use it to light fires the engraving on the back may help identify your sun-bleached bones ("So, this poor devil was named WATER RESISTANT")
hollander 3y ago
I have a Seiko watch with capacitor charged by movement that worked for 18 years and it was't finished completely but it depleted in one or two days. It's a pity they stopped with this technique.
Dr_Birdbrain 3y ago
My father has a mechanical watch that he bought in the 70s and he has never serviced it. A Jaeger LeCoultre Memovox, a thing of beauty.
cainxinth 3y ago
> but the thing is: A mechanical watch needs to be serviced every five years (taken apart, lubricated). A mechanical watch should be serviced about every five years. That doesn’t mean they magically stop working if you don’t. I have an inherited Omega from the 60s that hasn’t been serviced in decades and it still runs and keeps good time.
- tadzik_ 3y ago
  Yep. I recently serviced a Tissot from the late 1930s – it was running fine, it was just a reasonable thing to do after all these years to prolong its lifespan. You wouldn't be able to tell that it needs a service without looking at timegrapher readings.
- WillAdams 3y ago
  Yes, but as a counterpoint, I have a vintage Seiko of my father which missed one too many servicings and now has a broken date wheel (but otherwise works perfectly). If I could find someone to fix it, I'd wear it special occasions (my day-to-day is a Solar Seiko) often enough to keep it wound and _would_ get it serviced every 5 years.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 3y ago
If I land on a desert island the very last thing I need is a watch. A watch is there to be able to synchronize with outside events, and those are in short supply on a desert island. If there are no other people that you need to meet, trains whose time tables matter or ships that need conning you don't need a watch. I'd trade you my watch for a book of matches or some canned food.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  > If I land on a desert island the very last thing I need is a watch. A watch is there to be able to synchronize with outside events, and those are in short supply on a desert island. If there are no other people that you need to meet, trains whose time tables matter or ships that need conning you don't need a watch. A watch lets you calculate longitude, which could be very valuable indeed. There's a reason why accurate time keeping was one of the holy grails during the age of sail.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Why would it be useful to you to be able to calculate longitude on a desert island?
    - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
      I suppose you could use it to work out where you need to go as you attempt to sail across the Pacific in your improvised raft?
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Good luck :) I just hope I brought enough books or a musical instrument with me. I'll be fine. And if not, oh well, there are much worse places to be than a desert island, with or without a watch. The thing you don't want to find out is that what you thought was a desert island is in fact inhabited by some tribe that thinks you might be tasty.
    - WillAdams 3y ago
mhb 3y ago
objects that can outlive their owners parrots, tortoises
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
I honestly find mechanical watches quite ugly, irrespective of cost, brand, or notoriety. To my eyes there's something inescapably crude about mechanical design with moving metal parts. It's still present when there are tiny components with even tinier tolerances.

criddell 3y ago

> The 700P was accurate to +/- 1 second per day, way beyond the reach of any mechanical calibre without electronic assistance. That’s true, except for Zenith Defy Lab. It is purely mechanical and has a +/- 0.3s per day.

ooterness 3y ago
I'm still waiting for a watch with a chip-scale atomic clock. Typical accuracy on current-generation systems is ~0.1 msec/day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip-scale_atomic_clock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip-scale_atomic_clock
- maratc 3y ago
  If being exact to the extreme is your thing, you may look into either high-frequency quartz (these are exact to within seconds a year), or any bluetooth-adjusted Casio (these will quietly sync with your phone several times a day, and your phone is synced to an atomic clock).

speakspokespok 3y ago

the battery is there to minimize drift not act as a power supplement?

gerikson 3y ago

Seiko used to have a series of watches called Kinetic, where an oscillating weight charged a capacitor or battery. Weird that it's not mentioned in the article, as it seems to be just what's under discussion. The issue is essentially solved for quartz, even Casio's electro-mechanic models can be powered by ambient light. Edited, Seiko, not Citizen.

inhumantsar 3y ago
The article is about hybrid electronic and mechanical timekeeping though, not energy source. While it has an analog display and a mechanical power source, the Kinetic's timekeeping is purely quartz. The Spring Drive has mechanical timekeeping which is automatically regulated by quartz.

gorbypark 3y ago

I've recently become enamoured with the Seiko Spring Drive. I'm currently dreaming up (probably unrealistic) plans to try and DIY a Spring Drive type mechanism. I doubt I'd be able to actually make it fit in a real watch, but the goal is to have it at least working on a desk. More or less the plan is to rip out the balance wheel/escape wheel and pallet fork from an existing movement and try and rig up a permanent magnet on a wheel, then a small electro magnet connected to something like an Arduino and see if I can even get something like that to regulate the speed of the watch.

dadoge 3y ago

One of the more fascinating aspects of these is how smooth the second hand movement is. Second hands on Quartz jump once / second. This is to lengthen the battery life. On mechanical watches, they are smoother than Quartz since the escapement releases power multiple times / sec. But still ever so slightly jumpy since power is still released in discrete increments. Spring Drive is outta this world smooth…it can do this since battery life is not an issue since it’s mechanically generated power that can be rewound…for practical purposes, it is releasing power continuously, see for yourself here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcHA5rBQxQc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcHA5rBQxQc

adrian_b 3y ago
While most quartz watches use cheaper stepping motors, there are also quartz watches which use synchronous motors, so the hands have a perfectly uniform and noiseless rotation movement. I had some big wall clocks of this kind, and my father had such wrist watches. The energy consumption of synchronous motors is lower, because they only have to overcome the friction forces, without having to also accelerate the mass of the hands.
- dadoge 3y ago
  I have a clock that is smooth. Bigger batteries help with that, compared to a small wristwatch battery. A quartz wristwatch with a smooth seconds hand? How long does the battery last?
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    I am not sure, because that was some years ago, when my father, who used the watch, was still alive, but in any case the battery lasted at least a year.
- numpad0 3y ago
  Yeah, not that I perceive it to be an assumption that is entirely illogical, but why is smooth movement supposed to consume more power? I can understand that jumping less often conserves power but the power hierarchy should be more ticks > less ticks > no ticks, if we ignore potential increased frictions at lower angular velocity as well as challenges of resisting disturbances.

mkoryak 3y ago

For those of you with expensive watches (5000usd+): Do you wear it every day? Does it impact your plans ie "I shouldn't wear it today because I might be targeted for a robbery"? What is the reason you bought an expensive watch when there are plenty not expensive watches that are good at "time"? Would you consider yourself "well off?" Thanks :)

jacquesm 3y ago
Expensive is relative to where you live.
- criddell 3y ago
  If you bought a Submariner in 2013, you could sell it today for more than you paid. From some perspectives, that Rolex is less expensive than a similar Timex or Casio.
sschueller 3y ago
In Switzerland I don't think there is any such thought. I see crazy expensive time pieces on people's wrists and no one give as hoot other than watch enthusiasts. I don't currently own a watch over 5k but if I where to purchase such a piece it would be for the craftsmanship and the beauty of the mechanics. However you would never find me wearing a Rolex which is a mass produced status symbol IMO.
ohpls 3y ago
I currently don't own a >=5k but I have previously, my currently daily is 3.5k (GBP). > Do you wear it every day? > Does it impact my plans? I do wear it almost daily but it does vary, if I'm doing anything manual (gardening, working on my bike, painting/decorating) then I'll either not wear it or take it off during those activities where I'm likely bound to bash my wrist against something. I'll often swap it out for one of my other cheaper ones sometimes. > Why? I've liked watches for God knows how long and I was fortunate to work at a luxury watch shop where I got some great discounts. I've always said my collection is my funeral fund for once I go! > Do I consider myself "well off"? Personally, no. I just make very bad financial decisions.

CraigJPerry 3y ago

Hybrid watches are pretty appealing, i can imagine they unlock a market of people that just can’t get past mechanical watches are a bit crap at their primary function. High end watches are somewhat appealing - the craftsmanship & precision engineering appeal (although today even most high end stuff is machine assembled i think?). Still there’s that huge sting in the tail… they’re just not great timepieces[1]. Your (network connected) phone is going to be more accurate. I can’t help feel like an absolute plum if i were to part with 5k+ for a watch with less accuracy than an £8 Casio. The article talks about spring drive and that i can get behind, the constant smooth movement is mesmerising, the accuracy is entirely respectable and it charges itself just by wearing so you still get the benefits of an automatic. Then, depending on the model you choose, you get a hand-finished casing that uses a polishing technique that takes a craftsman years to qualify in. To top it all off, these GS spring drives are some of the cheapest “high horology” options out there. I’m sold… [1] one exception, i’ll never be able to own one, but the H. Moser & Cie “Swiss Alp Watch” which i think i like mostly for the complete absurdity of everything about it

bayindirh 3y ago
As Teddy Baldassare puts it "Mechanical Watches are expensive toys". And as an owner of a couple of mechanical watches which I use daily, I'm pretty aware of it. However, wearing a mechanical watch makes me happy. It's a fascinating thing to keep time completely mechanically, and creates a nice counterbalance in my life filled with electronics. Another similar item is fountain pens.
- bradrn 3y ago
  > Another similar item is fountain pens. Can’t say anything about mechanical watches, but I’ll disagree with this: in my experience, fountain pens aren’t just toys. I was given a fountain pen a few years ago, and I immediately found it made my hand hurt less when writing, because I didn’t need to press nearly as hard. Since then I’ve found a few models of gel pens which are similar in this regard, but when it comes to handwriting, I still find fountain pens to be by far the most comfortable for me.

bitcurious 3y ago

Great article! I think missing a bit of framing. When I got really into watches, this is how I came to think of it. Fundamentally, a watch has three parts, and you can play with all three, which results in fun combinations and unique/dead end lineages. 1. a power supply - the most common are either a mainspring (mechanical) or a battery (electronic). You can play around with how you power both - mainsprings can be manually wound, self-winding through wear (a weight moves around and winds it). Outside of the wristwatch world there are other cool winding mechanisms, such as air pressure variation. With electronic ones the basic options are replaceable, self-charging through motion, self charging through sunlight, or directly rechargeable. 2. an oscillator - the most common are a quartz crystal (electronic) or a hairspring (mechanical), but there are some other oddball ones out there. Most of the innovation here is around making the performance temperature/humidity/position agnostic, but at the high end there is a lot of play with new materials and architectures. 3. an interface - the most common is the 12 hour clock face (mechanical) or the LED digital interface (electronic). Although both can immediate the other, for example a jump-hour mechanical interface can resemble a digital clock. Here I think the fun stuff is mostly on the mechanical side - there are many, many cool "complications" which through some series of gears can allow a watch to also keep track of the day, month, moon cycle, day of week, year, leap year, tide (set locally), an alarm, or a a chime every hour. Of course you can do all of that digitally but I guess it feels less special What's really fun, which this article is focused on, are the combo watches. My three favorite lineages: Seiko Spring Drive watches are in the article - mechanical power supply, electronic oscillator. Bulova Acutron - electronic power supply, mechanical oscillator. This one is pretty special as the oscillator was a magnet-driven tuning fork. It was far ahead of its time in terms of accuracy, but of course a dead end as far as practicality goes. It has a cool but annoying property of audibly humming. Citizen Cosmotron - an electric power supply, mechanical oscillator. This is a more tradition hybrid, where the oscillator is a balance spring. This lineage has some neat engineering for setting the date+day of week - the orientation of the watch actually controls which complication you are working with, using the same button. Also this has a time-sync feature where you can snap the second hand to 12:00 with a press of the button and the watch pauses until you let go of said button. New mechanical oscillators: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-silicon-powered-speed-of-the-frederique-constant-slimline-monolithic-manufacture-40hz https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-silicon-powered-speed-... https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-lab-oscillator-introducing https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-lab-oscillator...

nickdothutton 3y ago

Was a bit disappointed not to see my Accutron in the post. Tuning fork, driven by electromagnets, feeding timing to traditional Swiss style mechanism. Eats batteries though.

KaiserPro 3y ago
Exactly! or the quartz controlled timex oscillators: https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-balance/ https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control... or the quartz tuningfork: https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-tuning-fork/ https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control... or indeed the new generation of accutrons with the electrostatic drive

amelius 3y ago

I wonder at what point in our societal evolution it will become accepted that men wear jewelry other than watches, just like women.

isametry 3y ago
And this is relevant to the article how?
thih9 3y ago
I recall seeing men with rings, piercings, bracelets, etc. Also, while somewhat bland in comparison, the men's section at tiffany's does exist [1]. [1]: https://www.tiffany.com/jewelry/shop/mens-jewelry/ https://www.tiffany.com/jewelry/shop/mens-jewelry/
- amelius 3y ago
  Yeah, but it's not as widely accepted. Wearing such things can easily cost you points in a job interview, for example.
  - thih9 3y ago
    True, this happens. On the other hand, this is often the case for positions where you aren't allowed to wear jewellery or wouldn't want to wear jewellery anyway. I.e. wearing a nose ring for a dev interview in a corporation with a strict dress code - likely a bad idea. But in a casual agency - you might get bonus points, if anything.
    - jgalt212 3y ago
      agreed. until you're the boss, and probably even then, it never hurts (economically speaking) to dress the part.

mads 3y ago

I have one of those Ulysses Nardin phones in a drawer somewhere as I was working on the software part of it back in the days. The mechanical charging mechanism on the phone was basically a gimmick. You would probably have to shake it around for a few days to get the phone to even start again, if your oligarch plane crashed in the desert and your phone ran out of power.

KaiserPro 3y ago

The Spring drive is majestic, and generally wonderful. Get one if you can, they make smashing dress watches. The tool watch side is a bit lacking for my taste (either too thick, or have massive pushers for the chronograph.) However If you like "funky" movements, then I urge you all to check out this website here: https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/ https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/ (look at the drop down under movement types) There are watches you can buy for less than $300 that are controlled by a tuning fork. A no fooling humming tuning fork. Not only that, they are pretty accurate and easy to look after even by modern standards. They have wheels that have teeth that are 0.037mm apart. Your hair is 0.060mm wide. Then there are battery powered watches with moving balances. Then there are both styles with quartz regulators as well. Now if you want something a bit more modern, and less electric, there are silicon balances https://frederiqueconstant.com/monolithic/ https://frederiqueconstant.com/monolithic/ which are pretty wild. and finally plugging my own stuff: https://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/projects/electromechanical-clock/ https://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/projects/electromechanical-c... Which is a tuning fork controlled table clock using only discreet 7400 logic(more or less )

dusted 3y ago

I worked on the Ulysse Nardin Chairman phone, AMA. (I'll only answer things that won't get me into legal trouble)