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Ask HN: What is your policy regarding smartphones for your children?

• egberts1 3y ago
  Always wireguard children’s phone to your gateway coupled with firewall, IPS, ICAP, transparent HTTP. Whitelist all the things.
• gwnywg 3y ago
  I haven't bought smartphones for my kids. Some of their friends have smartphones and this sometimes leads to complaints and longer conversations, for now they accept my list of reasons, I'm yet to see what will future bring. As for computer access, I gave my kids access to my old PC running arch linux with some open source games, like minetest or supertuxkart. There are complaints that games are not as slick as they have seen when visiting other kids, but similarly to smartphones- they tend to accept my reasoning. I don't let my kids to watch youtube unattended, I'm not happy with youtube recommendation system and more importantly with ads they serve. Luckily I got to the point where each time my kids see something weird on the internet they are either turning off or switching with some funny comment about the content.
  • pixelatedindex 3y ago
    Could you share the reasoning that you provide your kid? This is a concern of mine as a future parent and would love to know what effective reasoning looks like.
    • gwnywg 3y ago
      I talk with my kids about addictive effect of different things, one of them are smartphones- they currently are interested in games but I already talk with them about other products that bring same addictive effect. We talk about mechanisms that lead to addiction, and why is it bad for them to be addicted to anything.. As for youtube ads I think many are inappriopriate for kids, when I see them I chat with my kids about things that should not be shown to them and why. I sometimes relate to my experiences, as I was heavily addicted to games, social media and to tech in general (in unproductive way), I see how this addiction changed my personality and I don't want my kids to go and make same mistakes. But even when they do at least they will be aware..
  • l33t7332273 3y ago
    >I gave my kids access to my old PC running arch linux with some open source games, like minetest or supertuxkart I do wonder why you aren’t okay with mainstream games like Minecraft.
    • mksybr 3y ago
      Minetest is both free and fairly comparable to Minecraft, if you use (Minetest) mods.
    • gwnywg 3y ago
      I am fine with the concept and minetest is available through pacman on arch. I sometimes play with them on local server
• max_ 3y ago
  I think this is something that has not been well integrated into smartphone devices & computers Here is what I would want. - Access to my child's browsing history - Access to my child's YouTube watch history - Require my (remote approval) before a child wants to install an application - Give me the remote ability to turn off acess to certain applicationsy child use for a certain period - The ability for me to block certain sites from my child browser like shock sites
  • eimrine 3y ago
    You know what's really funny? The government of the United States has a complete list of everything you have listed. As a topikstarter, I want to tell you that you missed the point of the question asked. Not to mention that you want to re-test what is already being checked by competent people, instead of wanting to positively influence learning.
    • l33t7332273 3y ago
      >The government of the United States has a complete list of everything you have listed Is this a logical conclusion/hunch/feeling, or is this documented somewhere?
      • eimrine 3y ago
        Hasn't Snowden documented enough of it?
  • NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    I believe there's plenty of apps which will give you most of that, but generally they are termed "stalkerware", and the app stores will remove them based on their utility to abusive domestic partners and the like.
    • max_ 3y ago
      I don't want to install 3rd party software. I want these features to come with Firefox, Chrome, MacOS, Windows & Linux
• quietthrow 3y ago
  I keep talking to my older kid (pre teen) about the harmful effects of phones and screens. Kid seems to get it(for now) But the real test is yet to come - middle and high school where most kids have a phone. I am hoping that my kids will be ok being mavericks. I realize that hope is not a plan but the reality is that my environment is against me so there isnt a sure fire way to protect children unless you are ok with sheltering them to a point where it eventually becomes debilitating for them to operate in the real world. To the OP: people typically have a herd mentality. HN is no different in that way. All you can do is try to instill trust between you and your kids and hope they will listen to you. You should also be super transparent with them about why you take the position you take. Give examples of people’s addiction to their screen/social media and how it’s distorts their view of reality to only make them feel bad about their existence. I am sure you can find a few in your own extended family or surroundings. Generally speaking , going against the grain takes a high degree of belief in something. Overcoming one’s minds transient desires requires strong intellect. That can be developed but it’s not an overnight thing and it’s certainly extremely hard when most People barely have any time to themselves or their kids - at least in USA (where real wages have been stagnant for 30+ years but cost of living has not[1]. The US deserves the birth rate decline it’s facing. It’s going to be a while before free markets and capitalism can evolve to solve this one) [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...
• brudgers 3y ago
  [Random parenting advice from the internet] My child is grown but grew up during the iPhone era. Anyway, I had a policy. It lasted until middle school. Then we had a conversation. And worked things out together. That's my recommendation because in the long run, conversation and negotiation are the only tools you really have. Good luck. ---- Appendix: 1. FOSS is your value. Your child is not you. If your child thinks FOSS is cool, it's cool. If they think it is lame, you are being lame. 2. Parental controls are only as good as someone else's parents. Your child can look at naked people on someone else's phone. 3. Around middle school, your child's peers begin to have massive importance. It is not that you cease to be important. But you are going to have to share influence. Even if you try to forbid such sharing. 4. It is better if parents grow as their children grow. Growing is on you because you are the adult.
  • eitally 3y ago
    This cannot be upvoted enough - thanks for posting it!
  • zamalek 3y ago
    > Your child is not you. If your child thinks FOSS is cool, it's cool. If they think it is lame, you are being lame. Yup, don't turn them into a pariah due to the color of chat bubbles (not having iPhone-colored bubbles was recently a major social problem for American teenagers). The color of a bubble might seem stupid to someone dealing with the issues of the adult world, but social issues is basically/hopefully the extent of problems that kids face. That being said, parents have been successfully imparting values to their children for millennia. If you believe that using FOSS is important (I happen to agree) then you should have no issues convincing your child the same. Maybe they'll end up using Linux on their laptop, while prioritizing the color of chat bubbles on their phones. You can only give them the tools and knowledge to make the right choices, you can't make choices for them.
    • jamilton 3y ago
      I don't know if I would say it's a "major social problem", more like a mild negative. Some teenagers primarily use Snapchat, Instagram, or Facebook Messenger. And outside of the US Whatsapp is very common. All these get around the chat bubble color issue.
• santah 3y ago
  9 and 12 boys. They carry dumb phones for calls only (we gave them one when they started going on multi day trips from school or outside of it at age like 6/7). They both have laptops and can game on and communicate with friends and classmates. They have old iPhones they sometimes use at home (with no sim cards). Those don't leave the house and are very rarely used (mostly to chat in friends groups). They don't watch youtube (except for music sometimes). They know what TikTok is (because all their friends watch it), but they don't (currently) have interest in it (mainly because we've had long talks about how terrible doom scrolling social sites and short videos is). If at some point we give them smart phones with sim cards, we'll heavily restrict social media sites and apps, but I plan on keeping the dumb phones in use for as long as possible (hopefully until 15-16).
  • eimrine 3y ago
    Thank you for sharing! Music is a pesky topic because all the really good music is always on torrents. There are no good music on yt because of at least lack of organization of tracks/albums/discography, lack of lossless and of course lack of a decent search. But as we perfectly know, there is no way in exposing the child to the torrents but not to a porn.
    • guilherme-puida 3y ago
      > There are no good music on yt because of at least lack of organization of tracks/albums/discography, lack of lossless and of course lack of a decent search. I don't think children care too much about any of those problems, though. I used to listen to music on a cheap radio player with an usb stick and I thought it was the greatest thing ever.
• benjaminwootton 3y ago
  Children 10 and 7. We are very anti screentime as it always seemed to send ours kids crazy and create behavioural issues. We started loosening it for the 10 year old, but within 6 months of that we had a few incidences of early online bullying so we are pushing back again. I personally hate to see kids and young people zombified looking at phones and want to delay, delay, delay.
  • baz00 3y ago
    They only do that if there's sod all else to do that's interesting. Mine get bored with the phone after 30 minutes. The youngest is currently making a necklace, the middle one is reading a book and the eldest is getting drunk with her boyfriend.
    • tasuki 3y ago
      Not sure why downvoted, your comment made me smile. I wish to be as chilled parent as you are!
• stevekemp 3y ago
  I live in Finland, and have a child who will soon turn seven. Finnish children start school "proper" around this age, and this is the first time they're able to make their own way to/from school. (Some children walk, some cycle, and others take the regular busses and trams, depending on the distance involved. In our case the child has to walk a few hundred meters, and not cross any roads at all, so it's an easy walk for him.) Because school finishes around 2pm we've just recently given him a phone so he can say "I'm going to play outside", "I'm coming [to the empty] home", or "I'm going to friend XXX for a couple of hours". It isn't a proper smartphone, but it does allow more than an old-school Nokia. We've generally allowed 30 minutes of "screen time" a day, sometimes that has been watching selected youtube videos, sometimes playing Super Mario Bros on the nintendo, and sometimes it has been watching TV. I expect the dynamic will change a little more now, but not hugely. Parental controls will be setup to allow more access between 1pm and 6pm, but I expect that we'll not allow access in the mornings or "late" at night, just to ensure there's not too much obsessive use. When/If the child can route around the parental controls I think we'll "reward" that creativity with more access. Need to encourage the hacker-mindset :)
  • rendall 3y ago
    What does your child do when he is not on the screen? I'm kind of struggling with this with my child (also Finland) (similar age).
    • bcrosby95 3y ago
      Our kids are ages 5-8, and we limit them to 1 hour per day of screen. When not on a screen, our kids play with toys, draw pictures, draw/write stories, read books, make stuff out of garbage (cardboard, cans, bottles, etc), make mud pies in the backyard, and so on.
    • stevekemp 3y ago
      It varies, to be honest. When he's left to his own devices he reads a lot of Aku Ankka, plays with lego, pokemon cards, and toy cars. He's quite interested in designing simple board-games, and role-playing character sheets. I think he gets that from his mother, and also from Minecraft. He'll show me a sheet of paper with a bunch of weapons (bows, swords, guns, etc) with "points" associated with them, and then tell me stories. He goes to play with kids in the garden, the park, or at their houses often, and every weekend I take him swimming, then to sauna. Or sometimes just sauna. We're doing a bit more "adult" stuff these days, now he's a bit older and has an attention span. For example in the past few months I've taken him to a 90 minute-long circus show, Linanmäki, his first metal gig (hevisaurus), and to the cinema to watch the Mario film. I expect it is only a matter of time until I take him to watch a hockey match, but I don't think he'll be so interested so I've held off for the moment. I guess other recurring things include going to the allotment (palsta) to weed, harvest berries, and random walks in the forest. He's been really interested in that this year, especially.
• dnndev 3y ago
  If any of the kids are like the way I was they have two phones, a fake phone for the parents to see and control, and then a real phone I keep to myself
  • yieldcrv 3y ago
    useful skillset on its own as long as you dont really expect to have any control, lower your expectations and act surprised
• iancmceachern 3y ago
  Our policy is we don't have children
• hash07e 3y ago
  Not until 15
• eli 3y ago
  > Recently, there are more and more studies that smartphones harm learning and not a single study with the opposite results. 1) It's much more nuanced than you're making it out to be. There are a lot of studies that show overuse of phones ("phone addiction") is bad for academic performance. Going beyond that runs into some serious correlation/causation problems. For example, children in lower income families spend significantly more time in front of a screen than middle-class families. 2) Is "learning" the sole issue you're concerned about? There are studies that show cell phone bans are harmful in other ways: reducing social interaction, student happiness, and feelings of safety. If you look at the above two points together I think you can draw a conclusion that smartphones, like most other things, are fine in moderation and potentially problematic at the extremes. Here are the AAP recommendations about screen time: https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/social-media-and-youth-mental-health-q-and-a-portal/middle-childhood/middle-childhood-questions/screen-time-guidelines/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente... AAP has a reputation for being conservative and evidence-based in what they recommend. EDIT: I found a high-quality study from just last year that should no association between the age a child acquires a phone and depression, grades, or sleep quality. https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cdev.13851 https://srcd.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cdev.13851
  • robertlagrant 3y ago
    Presumably safety could be addressed with a dumbphone; I don't think that's an argument for smartphones.
    • bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Another option in the same vein is a watch with cellular. One advantage is that it's harder to lose.
    • eli 3y ago
      Sure, though I'd note that feeling safe is potentially about more than just having the means to make a phone call.
• xivzgrev 3y ago
  good info here: https://www.waituntil8th.org/ https://www.waituntil8th.org/
• dicriseg 3y ago
  My child is 11 and starting middle school next year (US). They walk to and from school. They have an iPad and a PC at home, with a lot of freedom, but I also have pretty solid DNS filtering for ads, malware, and some other junk. Social media isn’t allowed, and their email account is forwarded to us. iMessage is allowed contacts only but it’s just a matter of asking us. We want some oversight. But no phone - the iPad stays home, and they have an Apple Watch that lets us keep in contact, know where they are, but has no real distraction apps and no camera. We don’t really know when we’ll allow a smartphone but not soon.
• jraby3 3y ago
  11,9,5 year olds. The 11 year old is addicted to his phone/switch. But he constantly plays with friends so when we block it he ends up being somewhat isolated. Seems like a can’t win situation but he is also pretty active with sports and does great in school. 9 year old doesn’t have restrictions but seems to get sick of it after an hour most days (more on weekends). She only games with her brother usually watches YouTube. 5 year old gets 1-2 hours of tv time a day. Usually because she wakes up first and turns the tv on herself, and then right after daycare while one od us is preparing food. It’s really challenging. The younger ones get jealous of the older one if he gets more screen time. The older one is very social and suffers when he’s isolated from his friends when we turn off his screens.
  • l33t7332273 3y ago
    >The 11 year old is addicted to his phone/switch. But he constantly plays with friends so when we block it he ends up being somewhat isolated. Seems like a can’t win situation but he is also pretty active with sports and does great in school Just looking around the room I’m in, I see 3/5 of the people with laptops/iPads but also on their phones. I think phone addiction is common, but maybe addiction isn’t quite the right word if it’s not negatively impacting their life as you mention with school and sports.
• EvanAnderson 3y ago
  10 y/o - No phone, tablet, computer of any type. (Combination of Reggio Emilia and Montessori schooling, so almost no technology at school either.) We're right on the cusp of giving her a laptop w/ some flavor of desktop Linux and LibreOffice. She has expressed interest in typing versus hand-writing schoolwork. I'm also considering giving her an offline copy of Wikipedia, and perhaps a typing drill app. Edit: No network access, though. Strictly an offline machine. She has sent text messages to me with her mother's phone a few times and had a lot of fun. I wish she had a phone for emergency calls and perhaps text messages only with specified contacts. (There are times I find myself wishing I could email or text her... >smile<) Her mother and I are Apple phone users, albeit w/o iCloud accounts and minimal interaction w/ the Apple "mothership". I wish their parental controls didn't require using iCloud. Edit: Her mother and I already had a "no phones in restaurants" policy before we had the child. Having her around has helped reinforce that since we didn't want to be rude and effectively ignore her at restaurants. (Although once she learned to read she'd just read her book and ignore us. >smile<)
  • jackson1442 3y ago
    > I wish their parental controls didn't require using iCloud. I don’t believe they do unless you want to be able to configure them from your own phone. It actually seems to be more reliable[0] if you do an entirely offline screen time setup. You can also use Apple Configurator to create configuration profiles that definitely do not require Apple IDs to use (though installing Configurator on your laptop does require an Apple ID since it’s distributed though the App Store). [0]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2023/08/05/apple-ios-16-ipados-16-iphone-ipad-bug-screentime-bug-new-iphone-problem/?sh=2182776f30f4 https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2023/08/05/apple-io...
    • EvanAnderson 3y ago
      Thanks for the note. I haven't used the configurator in years. I didn't even think about it. I'll take a look.
• wiradikusuma 3y ago
  I use Android, and it has Family Link. Basically parents can (remote) control their kids' phone. No 3rd party app required. You can set very granular things, like which apps they can open, for how long, and what permissions are allowed. For app installs, the parents can remote-approve it, or allow kids to download only free apps (not good idea). You can see adjust the restrictions on the fly, like oh you've done your homework, I'll give you extra hour. You can see usage report. My kids are still using it to watch youtube. So I'm not successful yet.
• prepend 3y ago
  I did no devices at all until kindergarten. I have a tv connected to Plex via appletv in my living area and would watch a few shows with them. Gave unlimited books and magazines. Elementary school- bought an iPad with screen time and “no devices upstairs” (all bedrooms were upstairs). 30 minutes on school days, 60 minutes on weekend. Wi-Fi rules to shut off at night. Pihole to block porn and YouTube. Middle school got laptops with same controls. And a gaming pc in the living room. No instagram until 13. This was hard because all other kids got at 10 or earlier. Am trying to push this to 16 with later children. High school- same laptop, little more screen time and later Wi-Fi turnoffs. Phones with data when they have jobs and can afford to pay directly. Hard to tell if this “works.” Have done some tests of how much screen time and apps and behavior was very different for the worse with more screen time. Things like more arguments. Less time creating art or playing in person with friends with more screen time.
  • l33t7332273 3y ago
    I think by middle school it’s probably okay to not turn off the router. Maybe I’ve got brain worms because I had more or less unrestricted internet access since the time I was able to use a computer, but it feels like it wasn’t overly harmful. I spent far more than an hour behind a screen and I think I’m better off for that time. I spent a lot of time learning to program, learning mathematics, and consuming general knowledge content via things like vsauce, scishow, minute physics, cgp grey, crash course, etc. However, I also spent a lot of time on reddit which I’m certain wasn’t ideal for my social development. I understand this case may not be typical and maybe not even reproducible given the addictive content machines like tik tok, reels, and shorts, but I think having the freedom I had was a net positive.
    • dgunay 3y ago
      I had unrestricted access to the internet too from maybe age 10 or so, but it was a different time in the late 90s/early 2000s. Massive social networks, YouTube, etc were not much of a thing until I was in my mid teens. No smartphones, and PCs were clunkier to use than today. Playing videogames, hanging out on forums and reading news & Wikipedia were about the most engaging things I could do at the time. I saw plenty of violence and sex earlier than I should have, but like you said I feel the internet is a different beast these days. At the time, it was merely an unrefined double-edged sword of time wasting and free information. Now it is more addictive, filled with experiences designed by morally degenerate PhDs to prey upon our basest psychological weaknesses to make money for megacorps.
• baz00 3y ago
  Got three kids. They all got a smartphone at 11. But a locked down iOS device initially. As trust and responsibility is built they get given more capability. I am 100% against completely banning them from using it as it excludes them from important social situations and an anti-technology policy hurts them in the long run. They're here to stay: be a responsible parent and help them use them safely. Reward what they do well, don't punish them up front. Edit: my eldest is 2nd year at university now. Without the technology focused upbringing she would have the burden of learning that on top of the education. Now she zooms around on her iPad Pro / Apple Pencil as an extension of herself. No technology is a barrier to her.
  • WoodenChair 3y ago
    > Without the technology focused upbringing she would have the burden of learning that on top of the education. I don’t see it as a big burden. Do you think it took 18 year olds in 2010 who got an iPad when they first came out a long time to learn how to use them?
    • mixmastamyk 3y ago
      Toddlers are great with ipads, even if ipads are bad with them. Kinda silly that it takes a long time learn how to use one.
• javier_e06 3y ago
  No phones until 13 or 14. Yet, I don't have the courage to make a peep when I see friends handing their phones to their kids so they'll let us talk at the restaurant. In my day (back then) they'll send me to buy cigarettes or some other errand.
  • lvspiff 3y ago
    the good ol days when the pizza hut had pac man, guantlet, and a cigarette vending machine right next to each other.
• bluepod4 3y ago
  There have been a couple similar posts recently. But in those similar posts and this one, the OPs never mention how they were raised. I think it’d be interesting to know. Even if it’s not a smartphone. It could be a Nokia trac phone or whatever. It could be video games. It could be their own personal laptop or pc or their own AOL kids or teen account. It’s hard to provide advice when we don’t know the baseline.
• rbultje 3y ago
  I have 2 boys, 10 & 12. The 12YO has an Apple Watch which is useful to keep track of where he is and being able to reach each him (or him reach us). No social media or games, which is what most people are worried about at that age. So it seems like a decent trade-off. You can set it up to not allow phone calls or messages from unknown numbers, which means no scam calls/messages.
• strangattractor 3y ago
  After having raised a child to maturity with no policy I would recommend no devices at all for as long as you can maintain sanity. Eventually you will have to break down simply because they do provide a certain utility but until the utility to distraction ratio exceeds 1 don't do it.
• Lerc 3y ago
  As a slightly different perspective. I live in Christchurch on my child's 7th birthday we had a 7.2 earthquake in the middle of the night. A few months later a 6.8 hit much harder in the daytime. More than a hundred died. Kids were at school. After that event people prioritised empowering their children with communication tools. More recently when much of the inner city was in lockdown, those tools proved invaluable. Even if it were just for kids communicating to other kids in lockdown in the room next door.
• iteria 3y ago
  As someone who spent _a lot_ of time playing video games in elementary and then every waking moment on computers/the internet when I was in middle school, but still had friends, got good grades, and have a fine career, I have mixed feelings about electronics. I'm old enough to see that clearly some children are addicted to their tablets/phones/videogames to the detriment of everything, but I also see what impact having no exposure can do and it's not great either but in a different way. I think a middle grade and understanding your child is called for. My daughter is only 4, but she's had access to a tablet since 1. She's far less addicted than any of her cousins. She will give it up in a heartbeat to do anything else. Sometimes just cartwheels down the hallway. Her tablet is wall garden locked to amazon, so no access to youtube which was honestly a good move looking at some of her classmates. I've some apps outside of Amazon's garden like Disney Plus. All her stuff has parental controls and her tablet operates at my pleasure and before bedtime. I think that some this is just parenting. I saw a study that stated that screen time only correlated with bad outcomes if your kid would have been doing something else. So if your kid could have been interacting with you, but instead was play games or watching streaming then that's where it's bad. If they would have just been home doing nothing, then the tablet doesn't hurt and can sometimes help. I've taken this to heart and from a young age I've tried to just do stuff with my kid and have her so stuff and make sure she understood that while riding in the car with her tablet was okay, using it at the park was not okay. Replace park with literally anything. I think this is why now, her tablet is more of a boredom thing for her and she's doesn't need it every moment of every day. She'd rather run outside. I'm just a sample of one and I know I'm more strict the more addicted the child seems to be (I have many niblings). I do think that screens are dangerous, but so is sugar and I think like sugar you a balance is best. You don't want a kid sneaking sodas because you never let them have one, but allowing soda every day is probably bad idea. That's my stance about screens. If you feel more attached to your phone, etc beyond it being a tool, you probably need a longer break from one is my thinking.
  • yieldcrv 3y ago
    > I think that some this is just parenting and probably predisposition which is being selected against in real time as in, yes, its an additional distraction that undermines a group of human’s productivity for the next few generations, but not all
• MarcScott 3y ago
  My child (now sixteen) has had unfettered access to technology and the internet since he was about four years old. He's had old tablets and laptops, and a mobile phone (since about the age of nine). I don't monitor his use, or use parental controls. He's familiar with macOS, Windows and Linux, and can build his own PC. I fail to see any negative effects with my attitude towards his use of tech.
  • K0balt 3y ago
    It really depends on what actually happens. I raised my kids on a sailboat. Literal death was just a matter of standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, or falling off when no one would notice for 5 minutes. They all survived. They survived because they had a deep understanding of the dangers involved and how to avoid them, not because raising 6 towards old children on a sailboat is perfectly safe. Was it worth it? Sure. They are all amazing people with a global culture, strong risk taking and management skills, and a broad range of skills. If one of them had died, my answer would probably be no, not worth it. With screens at a young age, There is a risk of dopamine-short loops and damage to attention mechanisms in brain development. If they don’t do the thing’s that are damaging, they won’t be damaged. To be perfectly clear, I am not criticizing your choice. Sounds to me like it was the right one. But it’s definitely a YMMV situation, like sailing the ocean with young children.
    • type0 3y ago
      > Literal death was just a matter of standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, or falling off when no one would notice for 5 minutes. Danger can be a good thing if it's visible and apprehensible https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/24/why-germany-is-building-risk-into-its-playgrounds https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/24/why-germany-is...
  • cvhashim04 3y ago
    Open and unfettered access to the internet since age 4 has probably given him a warped sense of reality.
    • 3y ago
• Slava_Propanei 3y ago
  [dead]
• loudmax 3y ago
  I think FOSS vs proprietary software is sort of orthogonal to what kind restrictions you should probably impose as a parent. It might be more useful to think about what kind of online environments your kids are engaging in. Anything monetized by ads is sketchy. Unfortunately, that's most of the internet. My two sons were born in the early 2000's. When they were in elementary school, they had access to a desktop computer in our living room (running Gentoo Linux). In early elementary school, they had whitelist of web sites they could access, with Wikipedia as the home page. They each had about an hour a day, under parental supervision. In middle school, they had tablets, which we made them turn in before bed time. I installed Minecraft on the desktop. Battle For Wesnoth is pretty good too. In high school, we got them cell phones, and the school handed them laptops. We made them turn electronics in before bedtime, but we relaxed this as they got older. I absolutely recommend setting boundaries. Properly instilling discipline in children takes a lot of self-discipline as a parent, and maintaining these boundaries can be a lot harder than it sounds. Be prepared for arguments. For better and worse, their cell phones are their connection to their peers, much of it mediated by Instagram and Snapchat. It depends a lot on the kid too. Turning in the cell phone before bedtime became a major point of contention with my older son. We never had those problems with the younger one. I don't think we treated them that that differently, it's just how their personalities are. I think the kids turned out okay in the end. The older one is now serving in the US Marine Corps and the younger one just left for college a few weeks ago. Love your kids, and stay involved with them. Then slowly let go.
  • jackson1442 3y ago
    I think this is one of the best comments on the thread. Most are about setting restrictions that, at best, will lead to the kids finding a way around them. If you set restrictions, your kids will almost certainly find ways around them. Maybe they figure out how to do it on their own device, but they almost certainly have a friend with unrestricted internet access anyways. If you reason with your kids and set boundaries (at an appropriate age), they learn _why_ restrictions might be set. This means that after you would have stopped directly applying restrictions, they use self control to moderate themselves. Obviously it depends on the kid. My parents went both routes and _every single time_ they set a hard restriction I found a way around it. When they blocked websites with online games, I learned how to set up a proxy to a computer on the network without restrictions. When they added parental controls on an iOS device, I found out that factory resetting from Find My wipes the restrictions (factory reset on the device is blocked when parental controls are enabled). When a more stringent network block was applied, I learned about DNS and how to bypass DNS-based internet restrictions. But they reasoned with my about social media and generally nurtured my curiosity, so I just don’t find myself interested in any traditional social apps. I’m definitely not immune to digital addiction, but I’d rather be addicted to interesting link aggregators than Instagram. Also- consider setting different limits for different kinds of content. I think video games are probably a better use of time than TV since they’re engaging and typically require thought, but a good documentary is educational and should be considered as such (a strict passive-consumption limit may encourage a kid to watch more “junk food” content while eschewing content that’s actually educational). Maybe defined limits aren’t the way to go, or maybe exceptions should just be the norm. One thing I’d add is that you should apply similar standards to yourself when setting boundaries. Even if I wasn’t feeling obstinate about a particular restriction, seeing my parents flagrantly violate that themselves just made me want to bypass it—and I did! tl;dr at a certain point kids are people and can reason for themselves—to a degree; consider this when setting limits, restrictions, or boundaries.
• dariusm5 3y ago
  We have a 2 year old and we don't use our phones or devices when she's around unless it's a video call from family or an important phone call. We're happy with the results so far since she's turned out to be a very patient, intelligent, and attentive child. She finds enjoyment in books, puzzles, drawing, cooking, gardening, cleaning, unloading/loading the dishwasher, laundry, and all sorts of activities her overstimulated peers would find boring nowadays.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• javajosh 3y ago
  I have a "minimal screens" policy. What screens they do get are creative. For example, KidPix. I don't allow games or video watching. This puts the screen squarely in the "arts and crafts" space, where it belongs, and I don't need to put limits on it because they limit themselves. They won't have smartphones or tablets of their own until high school. And even then it will be for creative things, comms with friends. No social media. I will allow them to play some online games, like Fortnite and Rocket League, with the chat/mic turned off. My daughter loves Astro's Playroom (great game BTW) so she's gonna be a gamer. Game consoles aren't the problem. The always on pocket screen that's constantly beeping with promises of a dopamine hit is a HUGE problem. It may seem like a fine distinction, but it's crystal clear to me (and to them). I make a point to show them what screens have done to groups in the world, when you see people all looking at their phones instead of each other at dinner. We laugh at them and pity them, and this is correct.
• irrational 3y ago
  They can have one when they get a job and can afford to purchase it (and a data plan) on their own. So far that has happened around 17+ years old. At home we use Circle. If they want their phone to be on our wifi, it has to have the circle vpn installed. I assumed they would just want to use their own data, but so far all of them have voluntarily chosen to have the circle vpn installed.
• yumraj 3y ago
  Smartphone in high school, not before. No social media apps on the phone. Parental control (iOS) so need Parent permission before installing apps At home most/almost every non-professional social media is blocked via pi-hole I’m not on FB, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok etc. I think this is very very important for the above since kids see that parents are also not on social media. Most people, IMHO, run into trouble when they use it but want to restrict kids. This mostly worked for a kid who just went to college. Will see if it works for the other. Edit: have Switch and PS5, but multiplayer internet games are not allowed. Offline games only. Edit2: I occasionally remote login into computers to tell the kids that I can do that. I think/hope it reduces temptation.
  • jiofj 3y ago
    [flagged]
  • djtango 3y ago
    What don't you like about online gaming?
    • yumraj 3y ago
      I made a rule. Bought most games I was asked for, was never pushed back for online gaming. So it worked. If there had been much push back for a game, I would have dug deeper. At the very least, conversations can be rather profanity laden and so can be the user names.
    • Hayvok 3y ago
      Behavior from fellow players can range from day-brightening to absolutely appalling. Not taking the risk. Even in multiplayer games without chat/audio, the other players will find creative ways to exhibit behaviors I find intolerable for my kids.
    • balaji1 3y ago
      might be obvious - online games much more tempting than offline single player games. I have not played single player games in decade+ but have played several days the latest multiplayer games. Does it mean online games are more addictive for kids or affect them worse than offline games? probably not. But I have observed (many) kids who can power thru single player games tend to be more unyielding on other tasks.
• omnicognate 3y ago
  I have a whitelisting proxy for my kids at home (squid based). Later I will change it to blacklisting, then just logging before eventually giving them uncontrolled access. I don't have a timetable for it and will change it whenever it feels appropriate. I also use Wireguard to route my own mobile phone traffic through my home network. When the time comes to give the kids smartphones (which I'm in no hurry to do) I will initially give them managed devices with always-on wireguard to the home network, so traffic goes through the same proxy. The set of available apps will also be restricted. We talk a lot about the complexities, opportunities and dangers of the internet and the kids are accepting of the restrictions. The technology exists to manage this. It's the same stuff companies use for byod. It's just that nobody makes it easy for parents to do it.
  • barapa 3y ago
    Can you share any resources on how you set this up exactly?
    • bomewish 3y ago
      +1 here. Would love to see how to set this up.
  • BackBlast 3y ago
    I built a very similar setup for my kids. Mine operates per-system, some are white listed with individual settings, and my oldest are on a blacklist only for problem sites. Thanks for sharing.
• mfgs 3y ago
  The kids in my family attend a school where the parents have all verbally agreed to not get their kids a smart phone until 16. This removes the peer pressure element of owning a phone/instagram/etc. When that’s removed there is little downside and huge upsides to the kids not having phones.
  • jasonfarnon 3y ago
    Can I ask what type of school, and do you know if this is commonly done? The main difficulty I have with restricting phone use is that these days it can entirely isolate the kid socially. If the kid had a good number of friends who knew how to interact without in person I'd be a lot more comfortable.
  • dryrun 3y ago
    How big is the school, if you don't mind me asking? And was it something pushed by the parents or the school itself? Would you mind sharing the papers/mails regarding justification & such?
• garrickvanburen 3y ago
  WiFi tablet / Chromebook before then say 5th or 6th grade. I’ve 4 kids, so you can imagine that once it’s on the house, it’s in the house and anyone can access the device. Phone with a SIM card in 8th grade. If they create a social media account (including chess.com and TikTok) they have to “friend” us - their parents. This is working well for us, especially on the family logistics side: shared calendaring, family iMessage thread, shared shopping lists. I’ve also enjoyed seeing how each kid uses the device differently.
• ryandrake 3y ago
  Regardless of what rules we choose, one thing I don't see here in the comments much is the practice of setting a good example for your kids. Kids can easily identify hypocrisy. A parent can't tell their child to not get addicted to a smartphone if the parent himself is addicted to a smartphone. So as parents we set ground rules for our own conduct before even thinking about policy for the child: We should not sit there mindlessly scrolling, especially in front of the child. If we need to use the phone for some task, take it out, do the task, and show the child that you're using the smartphone as a tool to accomplish something, not for passive consumption. If you limit your kid's screen time to some arbitrary amount that you yourself cannot even achieve, you're transparently sending the message that you're full of shit and kids know when you're full of shit.
  • jonny_eh 3y ago
    On top of that, if kids think you're a hypocrite, or even judgmental, they won't be transparent with you. They'll go behind your back and you'll lose the majority of your influence on them.
  • apsurd 3y ago
    +1. "because I said so" and "when you're an adult..." are short-sighted non-fixes. I'm an uncle to a 5 and 7 year old. They call you on your bullshit all the time! And even as a non-parent I get that it's hard to always have to debate a 5 year old, but they DO recognize and intake consistency, even if they don't have the capacity to understand logic and rationality. yet. You gotta set a consistent and reputable example. Or else you're just making a human that understands power.
    • gotoeleven 3y ago
      How about "I'm already a mindless consumer drone addicted to tweet dopamine but it's not too late for you" ?
      • steve_adams_86 3y ago
        The honesty might have some value but ultimately I think it might not suffice
• kelseyfrog 3y ago
  I'm making him read the Linux kernel line by line (he shouldn't run any software he can't audit). So far it's not working out very well, but I have hope.
  • MiguelX413 3y ago
    Rare sighting of humor on HN.
    • koolba 3y ago
      I find it funnier that I didn’t read it as a joke.
      • matt123456789 3y ago
        My parents did this for me, and it worked like a charm.
        • anonym29 3y ago
          My parents put login time restrictions on our home Windows computer. That's how I learned to live boot Linux. Then they started changing the wireless network password. That's how I learned to set a wireless card into monitor mode, capture a bunch of packets, and crack WEP keys. Then they started locking the router in a closet, and plugging it into a "timer" outlet (that itself plugged into a regular outlet) and just stopped letting electricity pass through at certain times. That's how I learned to pick locks. Now I work on a red team. Thanks for the free training, mom and dad!
          • smeej 3y ago
            Given the thread context, I can't tell if you're serious, but I'm totally stealing this as a training strategy. They'll never be in trouble for circumventing my restrictions. I'll just have to up my game! I've gotten in big arguments about a similar idea with my brother. I've told him I intend to monitor all internet traffic and phone activity in my house because I want my kids to grow up understanding that anything they aren't extremely careful to encrypt and protect can and will be read by the people they least want to see it. He thinks I'm evil and children deserve privacy. I think he's neglecting a duty to teach his the hard truth that you are responsible for your own privacy.
• shmde 3y ago
  Thread is depressing af. I wonder how many people here had unrestricted access to computers and internet growing up ( I did ) and I am thankful for that. If a kid wanted to do what they wanted to, no amount of restrictions are gonna help.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • TillE 3y ago
    I think the only reasonable point is maybe don't let your young kids have social media accounts on global platforms. That makes sense. Otherwise there's so little difference between now and ~20 years ago, which I assume is when a lot of us grew up. Like, 99% of the porn out there is boring mainstream hardcore stuff which was readily available as soon as internet video became a thing. The only important thing to instill in your kids here is that porn is not normal sex, which is something I figured out pretty quickly.
  • clnq 3y ago
    One might argue that developing proper filters for garbage content is much more beneficial than being sheltered from it. Of course, you can’t just throw everything at a kid and expect them to figure it out. But kids are smarter than most people on this thread seem to think. With a little guidance, they can develop a sense of what’s what in technology and use it well.
• petercooper 3y ago
  Quite little except lots of education/dialogue, app approval/setup, and parental oversight on demand (i.e. we can ask to look at their devices up to a certain age). We have had zero problems of overuse, misuse, attitude, or the like. They do have lots of extracurricular activities and clubs to keep them busy/social though with little spare time (something I don't wholeheartedly agree with - being "bored" made me quite inventive as a kid - but my wife's methods seem to result in good kids so I'm going with it!)
• ipnon 3y ago
  The "family computer" of long ago ages seemed to attenuate the kinds of addiction we see today. It also made computing more social since the only resource was shared.
  • nuclearnice3 3y ago
    Likewise the old home phone provided some monitoring of phone use. We've gained and lost so much.
• rootusrootus 3y ago
  10 & 12, both have iPads with restrictions - 2 hours/day with certain apps excepted, e.g. drawing, coding, other educational apps. No smartphones yet, but both have cellular Apple watches. Texting only with contacts, I manage the contacts. We've consistently drawn the line at 9th grade for their first smartphone, which is fairly late compared to our contemporaries. They have lots of other things to do, too, of course. We have a Switch, Xbox, trampoline, swimming pool, hot tub, and a neighborhood full of other kids their age. They would probably spend more time on YouTube than I'd prefer if I didn't put a cap on it, but it's been basically fine so far. We do have a rule against iPads in bedrooms with closed doors, though that is starting to relax a bit with the 12 year old. Kids grow, you kinda have to roll with it and adjust to fit the situation. You can't keep them innocent forever, and if you try, you will not get the well adjusted adult you're aiming for. We have some family who are hard core home schoolers (for religious reasons) and it turns out a disaster more often than not. They're so worried about public school indoctrination but are then surprised to find their own kids refuse to be indoctrinated at home.
  • gnicholas 3y ago
    I've thought about cellular apple watches, as a way to know where the kid is, and so the kid can call in an emergency. Seems better than a phone, which encourages scrolling. But my kids' school doesn't allow kids to wear smartwatches (and I can imagine why — distractions, possible cheating, etc.). Have you dealt with restrictions like these?
    • rootusrootus 3y ago
      We have only had one incident with the smartwatches. My daughter texted us during class, which got it taken away. Probably she wouldn't have gotten caught aside from the fact that she was using voice recognition to dictate the message. We had a chat with her teacher and the principal, and they agreed to give her a second chance provided she agreed not to text during class. This was in 5th grade, at her elementary school. My son still goes there. The middle school has a no smartphone, no headphone policy, but they don't single out smartwatches. From their discussion points on why they have the rules they do, I imagine it won't be a problem as long as my daughter continues to abide by the 'do not text during class' rule. They're not trying to lock down the school, just eliminate distractions during class.
• MKais 3y ago
  I have two 13-years-old kids. No mobile phones. Most friends have phones. Pressure is high. Kids can use their mother's phone to answer some class group messages. Kids still surviving and thriving. Parents still resisting. Good luck everyone.
• camhart 3y ago
  The mental health issues our youth are facing have significant roots in smartphones/social media. The longer you can delay it without having your child be ostracized from their peers the better. Each child will likely need a different approach, but I'd encourage heavy involvement and oversight by parents. The bad far outweighs the good, but if monitored you can hopefully mitigate the bad.
• mocmoc 3y ago
  The issue is not the phone the issue is how you use it. The problem are not books the problem is what you read. The issue is not tv te issue is what choose to watch. The issue is not sugar the issue is what choose to eat
• eitally 3y ago
  We got our kids smartphones when they started middle school -- for our convenience, not their entertainment. I control what they install and I set time limits on when they can use them. They are not allowed to have social media accounts, and thus far my only bugbear is the fact that I have to allow browser access but that then allows unfettered access to Youtube. I generally trust my kids and they're pretty responsible, but there's a lot of stuff out there they could inadvertently wander into, and while they probably aren't at elevated risk, I don't want it to happen sooner than necessary. They have Android phones, btw, and are practically the only ones in the school who do. The result has been that they use Messages + Telegram for chat. They barely acknowledge the fact that their Google accounts mean they have email accounts, and even if anyone sends them anything they don't read it. App-based push notifications are a requirement if you want tweens'/teens' attention. We bought them phones as a safety precaution because they 1) ride their bikes to school, and 2) we're all over the place in the evenings with sports practices, some of which don't end until 9:15pm. We appreciate them being accessible -- by us -- and giving them the ability to communicate with us and their friends, too. Phones are not allowed in bedrooms or bathrooms in our house, either, for adults or kids. :)
  • ryanwaggoner 3y ago
    Can Android not block specific websites with parental controls? I know that’s possible in iOS, with Screen Time at least.
• jcpst 3y ago
  High school. We were able to keep our oldest from having a smartphone until then. She’s in college now. The external pressures are nuts. It got to where she was just staring at the screens of her friends phones. My next oldest starts middle school next year. She has a smartwatch set to “family mode” for when she wants to walk to her friends or the park without an adult. She has access to the internet on a home computer. I think that better because she just ends up researching her curiosities over “engaging” with some mobile app. I get a report of her search history to make sure there’s nothing that is a code red.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• ip26 3y ago
  No parent has ever told me they wished they had given their kid a phone sooner. My mind turns to milestones. Maybe puberty is the key, when social groups get more complex. Maybe it’s when they get a driver's license, and can travel a city away at the drop of a hat. Maybe it’s when they start attending parties, and you want them to be able to get out or home the moment they feel unsafe. It probably depends on the kid and their peers, but all those are around 13-15. Screens aren’t themselves bad; my kid has great fun playing crosswords and code deciphering games, and it’s practically no different from the paper versions.
• tootie 3y ago
  Kids are 11 and 15. Both have phones, laptops and share a switch and Quest. No limits. They watch and play as much as they want so long as they do homework, maintain hygiene and get some physical and social activity. They're both healthy and well-adjusted. My oldest is at an elite STEM school, younger one is doing well enough. The STEM kid in particular, they literally use their phones in class. Teachers tell them to look things up, use calculators, text classmates for group projects, find links on Google Classroom or watch lectures on YouTube. The war on phones is over and phones have won. There are, in fact, studies showing that smart phone usage isn't bad: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/technology/kids-smartphones-depression.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/technology/kids-smartphon...
• turtlebits 3y ago
  As long as I see that my kid understands and can demonstrate responsible limits, apps are fine. The only thing I require is that device usage has a purpose (ie write what you are going to do down) and is not just a distraction. I don't have a policy for a personal device, but if most of time spent is with parents or or at school, they don't need one. I'm probably thinking middle or high school at least.
• mattbee 3y ago
  As a child brought up by screens, I've never believed that screen time is a problem, so much as what's on the screens. I wish I could find the clever comment from the parent who talked about "playing defence" with smart phones, which this thread is about, vs "playing offence", finding competing interests and distractions! I try to "play offence" and do trips and social things. But our capitalist hellscape makes it hard for other parents to get that time. So we look for total control or total abstinence, right? I am just optimistic about technology and want my kids to be masters of it. So my 10yo has had mostly free rein of a laptop & phone since he was about 5, maybe a bit of TV and kids Youtube channels before then. He was reading before 24 months and is a bit of a sponge (& parrot) for whatever he finds interesting. We have lots of weird and interesting conversations about internet culture. I wish he was more interested in long-form things, but he gets great reports from school, so I have no concerns about his ability to learn. I see his various internet histories, and I've quietly poked on some parental controls: YouTube time limits on long days, or blocking obnoxious bro channels. He likes to draw, spend time with his family, organise play with his friends, but he's published Roblox games too. I spent a lot of time helping him understand addiction, loot crates, pay-to-win and algorithmic horrors (particularly during the pandemic). It took a few months but he's worked out how to deal with all of that - I guess that's a "better under my roof" policy. My 4yo has a tablet, no particular restrictions but she can kindof forget about it for days in a way that my 10yo wouldn't. She's learning about boring games that suck until you pay for a subscription, and has learned why flicking between new games every single day isn't actually fun. She is just as capable of changing content on YT Kids but sticks with videos. Unlike the 10yo she likes watching long movies, particularly musicals where she will rewind and learn songs. Again I block the odd obnoxious channels: product placement, gender stereotypes, whiny voices or just general artistic bankruptcy. So (on this thread anyway) it looks like I'm in a minority in being laissez-faire, a little reactive maybe. There are potential harms but I think I'm active and knowledgeable enough to keep them at bay.
  • positr0n 3y ago
    What do you use to block obnoxious YouTube channels?
    • 3y ago
• Zelphyr 3y ago
  My oldest was born two weeks after the first iPhone was announced. When she was 7 I let her buy an iPod (the one that looked like a thin iPhone) after she saved half the money. My son is about 18 months younger and I did the same for an iPad Mini when he saved up for it. They've been very responsible with their devices and we have talked about the potential dangers. Still, if I were to do it all over again, they wouldn't have touched those devices until they were 14. To this day I question how badly even I need one.
• JakeAl 3y ago
  There was a book written a few years ago and I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was about the effect of devices on children. The takeaway is they don't learn to read people's expressions and get easily offended, they don't develop healthy skills for in-person relationships, and they don't develop passive learning skills. I fear remote work has the same effect.
• psyclobe 3y ago
  iOS only, strict controls on screen time
• dools 3y ago
  My kids (11 and 13) both have iPads and laptops but neither has a SIM. My eldest daughter has an Apple Watch SE which had cellular connection and a Nokia 4G phone. She can have a real phone when she is 15. We have apple family set up with screen time password requests for all apps. There are some struggles but by and large they are pretty good.
• Projectiboga 3y ago
  I'm in midtown Manhattan, in a very small apartment, so the kid has been under our noses until now. He's 14.5, Iphone XR and his own self assembled gaming rig, almost no restrictions. He's a nearly straight A student, he chose to avoid the big magnet schools and is going to a cool collaborative public High School that Steve Wozniack funded thirty some years ago. I was born in 68 the Mrs in 65, so I understand what he's doing she doesn't almost at all, it's like we are from different generations. I spent lots of time watching him use tech, including watching what he watches on Youtube and what games he plays. I only placed soft limits on like I didn't want him playing war games and the like, that has softened a little as he and his crew go on GTA missions sometimes. We actually know his peer group from scouts, school, and a few get togethers, and one freind of a friend has famous parents so no contact with those parents other than a few text msg when that dad took his kid and my son to Great Adventure on a Vip thing, which is an incredible value, we've met the rest of the parents. I even got his Discord ID and have his Mom on there too, so we all have both ways to be in contact. We did severely limit TV his first few years. Funniest moment was during some live thing he asked to forward through the commercials. We gave him a button phone in maybe 2nd or 3rd grade when he started having a button phone for contacting us. He started with a LeapSomething with the buttons. maybe a couple of grades later he started using a laptop independently. Funniest moment was in Kindergarten he was in the side room with the computer and asked "how do you spell gold & silver", he was searching for a specific chess set he'd seen at school. Grades later I guided him on a research project, in 5th grade all the kids in the state do Native Americans. I guided him to research the Lenapie as they were the local group, including where I grew up, so he was able to do something different than most of the kids. He did the work I just guided the information search. He's been using the library his whole life and is aware of it's use as far a serendipity of being around things you aren't actually looking and the reference sections go. Mom covered the basic safety like no stranger will reasonably need your help or have anything good to offer you. She pushed the independence thing, where she left him a Union Square NYC playground while she shopped the green market. We had him take the bus to elementary school and signed the waver to let him off at like 8 years old, the bus driver had never seen the waver even once. the stop was around the corner from us no streets to cross, and he'd hang with a friend and nanny at first but by 3rd grade he was walking to the stop in the AM and always coming home solo or going over a neighbor friend's. As to booze and such, I emphasize it's best to wait, as it can get him in trouble while underage, etc. I also explained that the ones who start with the drugs in Middle School and High School first are likely to include the ones going Skitzo and that it would be hard to go through watching a friend go down that spiral, he knows grass isn't some scary thing but he has an idea it will be best to wait. I suggest that he should focus on dating before he drinks and smokes as that is something he can't get a do over on, where he can start with those later in college or beyond. Mom is pushing the notion that street powders can be laced.
• jpm_sd 3y ago
  Got Chromebooks during the pandemic cuz they were needed for remote school. Still in heavy use for school but closely supervised. Oldest daughter received a phone for her birthday shortly before starting 8th grade. We have Android locked down with Family Link so it only does voice, text, Spotify and email. It's working pretty well but there are still battles over excessive screen time.
• bilsbie 3y ago
  Whatever age you decide I recommend coming up with a contract you both sign. Start with it being too strict and you can always remove rules later.
  • maccard 3y ago
    I grew up in the pre smartphone era, but please don't do this. You are forcing the kid to sign something in a power imbalance. When I was 13-14, I signed a "contract" with my dad that I would write a song for him if he bought me the guitar I wanted. I'm in my 30s and it still haunts me that I never came through on my half of the deal, but playing the guitar is a huge part of my life, probably because of that arrangement.
• conductr 3y ago
  My kid is 5 and we don’t do small screens at all. Plenty of age appropriate tv programming so certainly not screenless. But it’s limited to home and only in 2 rooms. We teach him to be bored but also try to carry a backpack of books and toys. It’s work but if you commit to it, it’s really not too hard. We’ve caved in and let him play on phone a couple times while traveling, etc. he’s addicted instantly and we have to say no for a few days after but we shut it down.
• hedora 3y ago
  1) I put manjaro on a desktop. Our first and second grader haven’t found the web browser yet (I need to figure out how to ban their accounts from accessing the network; currently, I unplug the network cable because minecraft is a festering pit of privacy violations). They did find the games menu, which is full of OSS educational stuff. 2) Dosbox: The 1990’s were the golden age of educational software. Abandonware sites are your friends. 3) The parents at school recently held a bit of an intervention for the parents of the 2nd grade kid with a tablet, cell plan and youtube. 4) The switch is a surprisingly good product. Game builder garage is well done. 5) iPad’s guided access mode lets you lock it into a single app (eg; Kahn Academy Kids, PBS kids, etc). If that’s too spendy, Alcatel (of all companies!) makes landfill-grade android tablets with extremely good parental controls. (Google’s built in parental controls include mandatory account sign in and tracking, so screw that). This model is good enough (It’s $100 for a renewed one on Amazon). https://us.alcatelmobile.com/alcatel-joy-tab-2/ https://us.alcatelmobile.com/alcatel-joy-tab-2/
• plutoh28 3y ago
  I was given unrestricted access to an iPad as a 6yo. My dad would always be too busy to do anything so he’d give me his iPad (2) or his iPhone (3gs) whenever I’d ask with almost no hesitation. In retrospect, I do wish he was at least a little more strict. I could sit on a screen for 18 hours in a day with no intervention from my parents… but I wouldn’t. (my parents love me by the way and didn’t neglect me…I think) I mostly mindlessly watched Minecraft youtube videos, lets play videos, and would occasionally play some mobile game. Pros: - Developed my vocabulary by listening to adult conversation (commentators) - Became adept with technology by getting familiarity with navigating the internet and jailbreaking the devices - Became a fast typer - Was able to easily make friends who watched similar YouTubers Cons: - Difficulty focusing - Became impulsive as having instant access to technology is a form of instant gratification that was drilled into me - Learned every swear at 6 years old - Discovered porn at 7 years old Regardless, I do think I turned out fine. I was a straight-A student throughout my entire K-12 education, made plenty friends, and have maintained an ambitious outlook on my career.
  • gfodor 3y ago
    Wow, I feel old that someone can actually post this, but damn, is that illuminating.
    • 01100011 3y ago
      I'm almost 50 and could say the same except instead of phones and tablets it was console video games and a personal computer with internet access. Kids definitely have a different(extreme.. worse..) experience today, I'm not going to argue with that. But I think I was 5 when I started going long stretches of the day with no parental involvement and large amounts of device time. When I was 12 I got a modem, and was suddenly exposed to porn, online socializing and trolling, underground culture, pirated games, etc. For large stretches of time it was basically all I did outside of poorly performing at school.
      • exodust 3y ago
        "Almost 50" and "got a modem at 12yo" doesn't add up... 48yo today means you were 20yo in 1995, so already an adult by the time porn and pirated games were a thing? Not trying to gotcha, but I'm left with the only possible conclusion: you spent your university years exposed to porn, trolling and pirated games! :-)
• colinmegill 3y ago
  Gizmo watch has worked well
• protoman3000 3y ago
  You can only learn through play. Play involves accessibility, low stakes (cost of fault is little), freedom and some sense of excitement and arousal. Maybe a sense of community should be added as well to this list. Early video games from the SNES era, the early internet, Linux, programming etc. all have that. Smartphones can have that as well, but they give access to all the things that don’t have that, and it is questionable whether parental limits are creating authentic spontaneity that is necessary to safety also necessary to be able to learn how to handle with these things.
• fnordpiglet 3y ago
  My daughter has a heavily locked down iPad mini. She will get a smartphone when she turns 45.
• bestcoder69 3y ago
  My kids are too young, tech will advance too much to know. I'll report back in about a decade about my policy around how much they're allowed to meld with F̵̡͇͈̬͍͈͉͛͗͌̓̂̊̅̓̀͆͝Ṟ̵̣̳͎̽̈́͘İ̴̛̞̹͉̲͎̿̌̇̋͑͗̒̅̚͜͝͝Ȩ̷̻͖͓͍̙̲̮̰̹̖̥͙̤̺̏͒̃N̸̛̛͈͎̖̩̲͔̫̫̗̲̆̍̌̀̾̽͐́̈́̓̚͘D̵̡̡̯͙̦̎̈́͝.
• badcarbine 3y ago
  I’d say smartphone privilege should be awarded upon graduating elementary school. Unless the parents really need them to have it beforehand for some odd reason.
• meristem 3y ago
  We are delaying as long as possible. Right now it is ‘let’s evaluate when you are 13’. Many peers have a locked down apple watch.
• dudul 3y ago
  I have an 8 and a 6 year old. They obviously don't have phones. They've never used a tablet. To them a phone is for mom and dad to call people and a computer is where dad does his work. We are very anti screens. And we try to set the example. My wife and I never check our phones in front of them. I dont know how long we'll wait until getting them a phone. They go to a private school that tries to push the "wait until the 8th (grade)" rule and we're OK with that.
• nfriedly 3y ago
  My oldest is 9. He has a used iPhone that my wife and I manage. It's is wifi only and has a limited selection of apps. He primarily uses it to listen to audiobooks, and occasionally makes video calls with family members. No web browser and no social media.
• praving5 3y ago
  I have 12 YO. I have given him both laptop and phone with restrictions. YouTube = 30 min a day Roblox = 30 min on weekends General browsing = Enforced by Kaspersky Safe Kids with all adult content blocked Total device time = 1.5 hour per day Anything that takes more time, like scratch programming, school projects, research on topics, etc. is done on my laptop under my casual supervision (I reading a book and he using my laptop and filling his word doc with what he wants to write or doing Scratch programming for example). Family link for Android works great. Kaspersky Safe Kids works great for Windows Laptop. I can enforce device use time, content, app time limits, etc. Has been working like a charm since Covid days.
• yafbum 3y ago
  My policy is no phone until middle school (11). Even then I intend it to be strictly for family comms while away from home, no social media or texting with friends. Re. FOSS the problem isn't the software, it's what they can access through it. Instagram, tiktok etc are horrible for self esteem, education, emotional growth. Even with something as simple as a Kindle (which we don't restrict as much) I've had to drop Kindle unlimited because my kid was reading age inappropriate material on it. Children have very very poor impulse control and all that the online stuff does is basically exploiting that. We show example by putting cell phones away at 8pm when at home and not using phones while eating.
• BackBlast 3y ago
  Children don't get their own phones till they are ~16 and have more independence. They need them at some point, but too early is like giving a child crack. We have a family flip phone that I can give out as needed when a child is going somewhere and we want to be able to contact them and vice versa. Gabb wireless is also a good option.
• aeyes 3y ago
  I'm honestly shocked by the amount of restrictions some parents in this thread enforce. I had unlimited access to a PC since I was about 10 (no Internet until I was 16). 3 years later I knew the operating system inside out because of course back in the day of DOS and Windows 95 stuff broke easily and I'd try to fix it. I'd just tinker with it endlessly, started to read books about computers and tried to find out how it all worked. I started coding when I was 14, just learned it on my own by having a book and with curiosity. I never would have made it in this industry if it wasn't for spending endless hours with my computer for years before I had less and less time when I got older. A few years ago my parents told me that the best thing they ever did for me is to buy me a computer. I agree. I'm no genius by any means but every once in a while young hackers with incredible skills appear out of nowhere. I'm sure that all of them have a similar story to tell you. I can get behind the idea of limiting social media and video time. But screen time in general - not so much.
  • basch 3y ago
    You might not had made it if you spent all your time watching YouTube videos about things you can do with Prime TM.
    • aeyes 3y ago
      And I agree with that, I get very little out of videos. I have to try on my own to learn. Books are much better resources.
  • alex_lav 3y ago
    > I never would have made it in this industry if it wasn't for spending endless hours with my computer for years before I had less and less time when I got older. The amount of people that had the same upbringing but just became addicted to the internet/gaming instead of becoming a programmer is staggering though. edit I'll add, I don't think blanket rules do much good either. The amount of "I won't let my kid do ____", where ____ is a pretty normal and mostly harmless thing, in this thread, is pretty wild. You have to teach kids to be reflective and thoughtful people, not just afraid of everything and/or unable to assess when something's good and when it's bad.
• sjhatfield 3y ago
  Would love to have a rule like no phones until 15 but our son has type 1 diabetes so he has had to have a phone since he was 2 and a half. I anticipate him texting us about his treatment as soon as he can write, especially during school so we are going to have to navigate appropriate use early. This is also going to make it tricky having any rule for our younger daughter.
• LVB 3y ago
  My son just started middle school, and quickly we were hit with a new salvo of requests for a smartphone. Rather than immediately provide reasons why not, we've decided to turn it around and have him explain what he wants a smartphone for (he already has access to a flip phone he can take to school). Most things were met with "Can't you use your Chromebook or iPad for that?" Very soon he was sort of sheepishly left with "playing games at lunch" and "because my friends have one," which even he admits aren't great reasons. It's not a fun conversation and he isn't happy, but I feel like this time around it was a bit more productive and less of the vibe that we're just saying no to be mean.
  • spoonjim 3y ago
    “Because my friends have one” is one of the absolute best reasons for a middle schooler. It just doesn’t sound like a good reason to an adult. If the other kids are all playing a game the one without a phone is left out.
    • beefield 3y ago
      It's a bit funny that at the same time it doesn't sound good reason to an adult, it is one of the main reasons adults buy all kind of stuff themselves. Keeping up with Joneses...
      • rajamaka 3y ago
        Nothing like finishing a conversation with your child about the lack of need for a smartphone then jumping into your financed 2023 BMW SUV when a 1987 Toyota would fulfil the requirements.
        • ibizaman 3y ago
          Because it’s not about the price. And you’re the adult, you earn the money, you’re not required to share a fixed percentage of income with your children.
    • thetoon 3y ago
• TheBigSalad 3y ago
  Find me a study saying TV was good for us back in the day. But did it really "rot the brain"? No. Old people just fear technology.
• riwsky 3y ago
  I, for one, would never buy a child for my smartphone. Kids cause reading problems for smartphones with even as little as one year of exposure, with cracked screens and chewed-to-death pixels. And how well do you think FaceID works with a sticker over the front camera? No thanks.
  • wkat4242 3y ago
    I have no kids but this is why I read the comments :')
• kingrazor 3y ago
  I don't have kids, but I do want kids some day, and I think about this kind of thing a lot. I didn't have a phone of any kind until I was 18, and I didn't have a smartphone until I was 23. I had restricted internet access up until I was 16. Personally, I want to wait as long as possible before giving my kids smart devices. I see little kids with smart phones and it just rubs me the wrong way. But I'm totally willing to admit I might be in the one in the wrong here, and maybe I'm being too cautious. I don't know. The internet is a very different place than when I was a kid.
  • mixmastamyk 3y ago
    I didn't use the internet until I was about 25 or so and took to it like a duck to water. Stayed "surfing" late at work and realized how addictive it was quickly as well. When people say things like "kids need it so they don't get left behind," I laugh inside. It's not hard to learn how to use the internet these days, in fact toddlers are being pacified on tablets at this very moment. The idea that you need ten years to learn it is silly. Sure, have kids take an online safety class, since they apparently cancelled drivers Ed. I'm glad I got to face it when already mature, not sorry.
• pavelstoev 3y ago
  I have a 12 year old and a 9 year old. They pretty much grew up during the smartphone age. We teach them to understand smartphone is not a toy but a gateway to information, knowledge and communication. When we use our personal smartphones around the kids - it is primarily for work purposes and that is the explanation. iOS implementation of screentime, when properly configured is great. It is like a real information firewall.
• iamnotsure 3y ago
  You read too much.
• forgetfreeman 3y ago
  IDGAF what other humans do or don't have the intestinal fortitude to do or not do. Smartphones are provably damaging to children and mine does not and will not have one.
• askiiart 3y ago
  From a high schooler: Beyond elementary school, I'd recommend staying relaxed about what's allowed. In middle school, sure, block some stuff. Maybe no CoD, to be honest I'm not really too sure about what to do at this stage. I had no parental controls at all, and I didn't do anything that parental controls would've blocked. But at high school, there's a good chance your kid will be hearing the n word on a weekly basis, at least, and the f bomb multiple times per day. And if not, it'll just be variations to avoid punishment at school. They know plenty of swears by that point, there's no point trying to censor it. And if you block tons of stuff, they can and WILL find a way around it. For example, a neighboring school district blocks very little, besides what is specifically intended for circumventing blocks, while my school blocks quite a bit (thanks, in part, to me using dozens of GBs in a day, and other adventures) and I'd bet $100 that they have way less students trying to circumvent their blocks. People will accept some restrictions, up until a certain point, and after that, there's no censorship, no blocks, and no control. There's tons of proxies, and they likely have access to much less limited computers at school. So at most, I'd recommend limiting social media to, say, an hour a day, and leave everything else unblocked. *They know plenty, and can circumvent, whatever you put in place, so just make your terms acceptable.* And as for games, I don't really have a problem with vetting your kid's games, just don't pay attention to the ESRB ratings, look stuff up yourself. And don't let be a cheapskate and let your kid get sucked into addictive f2p games designed to exploit them, get them some decent games that'll last them a while. Sorry for this being so long, I'll take another look at it in the morning and try to shorten it down a bit. But for now, good night HN.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• Johnny555 3y ago
  My 9 year old nephew has a phone, but without cell service (so it's more like a wifi-only tablet) and he doesn't have access to it all day -- I can't remember what the schedule is, but he gets like a hour a day of use on school nights and more time on weekends. He mostly plays video games and watches video game walkthroughs on youtube with the phone. For schoolwork he uses the family computer in the livingroom. There's some kind of content filter on it to help keep him from the worst of the internet.
• tjpnz 3y ago
  My kids are two years old and find them fascinating. Not sure when they'll be getting phones if their own. About the only thing I've decided is that I'll be blocking access to the Meta and CCP apps when they do.
• Farbklex 3y ago
  My child is still too young but my policy is that it should learn to use a real PC first before switching to tablets and smartphones. The core concepts of how to use a mouse and keyboard, what are files and folders, how to use actual desktop software gets lost on smartphones. I will also start with harsh restrictions and parental controls first and then allow more and more. It is easier to limit access right away than applying restrictions afterwards.
• dash2 3y ago
  Some things to think about: * Commenters here are a highly selected sample. Many people are saying "I got lots of screen time as a kid, and all I did was learn computer programming." Well, sure, they're on HN! But your kid may not be like that. * This is equally true for any parenting strategy. "My parents did X and I turned out great" is not necessarily informative because most people who are reading HN probably turned out OK. * People's own parenting strategies are also non-typical ("I set up squid and created a whitelist..." is beyond most people). But maybe that's ok because you the reader are from the same atypical sample.
  • vGPU 3y ago
    Indeed. We learned computer skills because we had to. Computers were a buggy mess. I still remember how big of an upgrade windows 98 felt like. That is no longer the case. We now have devices, apps, and services meant for the specific purpose of effort-free consumption. I didn’t get my first smartphone until I got a job, but I really wish that my parents had never let me have a personal computer, in hindsight. It caused significantly more harm than it did good.
• carlotte 3y ago
  [dead]
• kchoudhu 3y ago
  None.
• 1B05H1N 3y ago
  It's better to talk about boundaries and why they exist rather than set up arbitrary ones for seemingly no reason (imo).
• Tade0 3y ago
  My daughter is two, so we just have a daily, timeboxed ritual for looking at screens and that's it - modern equivalent of watching TV if you will[0]. I think the important part is to never, ever let this be a substitute for parental attention. My plan for the future is to: -Start with a quiz on online safety/dark patterns and grant privileges based on the knowledge she acquires and internalizes. -Give data allowance. It so happens that the most addictive online behaviours are the most data-hungry. You can browse Wikipedia or even text with your friends on 32kbps. On the flipside, you can blow through gigabytes in one evening with TikTok. [0] Regarding that I found that it's difficult for me to figure out where to put boundaries because I wasn't given any, since both of my parents were addicted to screens - just their 90s equivalent - television. My dad would get home from work, turn on the thing and watch it until past my bedtime. I settled for boundaries that I'm familiar with, so timeboxing, allowance and competence tests similar to e.g. a driving license.
• brzl 3y ago
  In this fight, you loose. Entertainment machina is 24 hours there, millions of other adults engage to keep your child staring at the screen. What you can d is being an example. Show your child you're not addicted to it. Show that it's not so important. Your child will get the phone someday and it will take you child's attention. But there inside your child will have the feeling, the understanding that it's not really important. Because you were a good example.
• consoomer 3y ago
  My daughters are too young to have a phone, but old enough to play games. Our general rule for gaming is simple. We only do it on the weekends, and we do it together. We make it a family thing.
• pSYoniK 3y ago
  I think the survivorship bias is strong in this thread. This is a normal flow though when we consider where we are. Because of this, my suggestion is not to let the opinions of people online (whoever well-read and educated they might be) to act as a guide on defining a smartphone policy that suits you and your children. I also would advise that what I see here are a lot of straw man arguments - "discovered porn online? we had magazines and we turned out fine thus porn is fine". This is also a great example of where the two meet and create a very dangerous and incorrect (in my opinion) argument. The porn someone used to watch in a magazine would be limited to just that - a magazine. Static content that wouldn't change, that wouldn't gather information about you and at the end, you would be stuck with it for the foreseeable future until you would get your hands on another magazine. Online porn on the other hand watches what you watch, it creates recommendations and reinforces whatever behaviours you show to it in order to keep you engaged. It also has the nasty superpower of being there all the time, at any hour in any day and creating a self reinforcing cesspool that cannot and is not good for your development [1]. We're very quick to brush off that children just watch a few videos online and that those videos seem to only yield positive things, but the simple act of being always connected has negative downsides that have been studied. I feel like we're dealing with climate change discussions where we're still doing studies to figure out if it's really there. It is. It's really there. And so is the damage this always online society is doing to children, from their sleep [2], to their learning abilities and retention [3] as well as damage to self and body image [4]. These were all found in a quick search but the literature on this discussion in particular, the effects of technology and screens on younger people speaks for itself. It is damaging and just because we have 50-100 people who were fine, doesn't mean that the rest will be. They might be! Nothing might happen but that does not mean that the result is guaranteed and we should be so cavalier about dismissing any possible negative discussion around the topic. It's also crucial to remember that in the end you cannot control what kids do. You can't. Just think of all the things you hid from your parents successfully. Now imagine that the thing they need to hide is just a browser tab. [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual... [2] - https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-11640-9 https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s... (there are other studies on this, this is just a review of existing studies) [3] - https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/pen-and-paper-beats-computers-retaining-knowledge https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/pen-and-paper-beat... [4] - https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2023/02/social-media-body-image https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2023/02/social-media...
• JohnFen 3y ago
  My kids are grown now, but my policy was that they could have a phone if they could buy it and cover the ongoing bill with their own money.
• BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  I have two older teenagers. They got a phone when they were 14-ish, fist year of French collège (mid school). We had conversations and whatnot and there were times when they were giving the phones to us so that they are not distracted when working. These times are long gone and their phones grew into their palms it seems. The older one is 19 and when he has lots of work he manages to disconnect. I think that between 15 and 19 yo the battle is lost and I gave up. I preferred to keep a close link and contact with them rather than fight all the time. There are probably better parents though, more strict and systematic. I am not without fault as I use my phone all the time as well.
• cx42net 3y ago
  Funny, this post appears now, we should receive the sim card for our daughter today. And before that, we had a long discussion with my wife, and here's our decision, rules, and approach. Our daughter has still no idea she will get one. She will be 12 in 2+ months. The first thing we laid down was the various possibilities : - no phone yet - a very basic phone (no smartphone) - a smartphone, but with no internet (except Wifi) - smartphone with internet (4G/5G/etc) We quickly decided that a smartphone with internet was out of the picture, but we also decided it was time to have a phone. The main reason for that was regarding the organization. Last year, she had to use her friend's phone to ask us what she could do based on calendar changes, like a sick teacher. When I was her age, I used a phone booth to do the same, but they all have been removed today. That mean she needed to rely upon others to contact us (or ask the school). This gave an argument to have a phone. The second reason was that she had a great year last year ("6ieme", in France), great results and she is serious, honest and reliable. We can trust her with a phone. So we had to choose between a basic phone and a smartphone with only wifi. We had an old smartphone that was still working fine, and she likes to do video montages with our tablet, so we thought going the smartphone road was a good option. Plus, I gotta admit, if I'm being honest, a bit of peer pressure. (Many people we discussed it with told us it was a low blow to give her a basic phone where all her friends would have a smartphone. It's not about the material for me, but mostly about not being on specific apps (Telegram/Signal, etc.)). But having a phone is just the beginning. There will be rules that come along, and a lot of them. First, we have a rule at the house for all our kids; they can not watch "screen" anytime they want. We are broad with the term screen as it means what it means : any screen: TV, Computer, Tablet, and now phone. They can only have screen time at 11:30 and 18:30. The idea is to have around 2 hours per screen - at most - per day. Of course, this varies based on when we eat (we tend to eat later on Saturday evening, for instance), and we allow for more screen time on Sunday and the occasional Movie night. So it will be the same for her phone. But also, phones will be absolutely prohibited when at the table and in her bedroom. That was the second argument for the Wi-Fi; she will have to use it in the common space, where we can see a bit over the shoulder. Installing apps will be reviewed by us; some are already on the no-list, like Snapchat. She could definitely install apps without asking us, or waking up at 3 a.m. to search her phone downstair. But as I've said, she is honest, and I'm confident that's not something she will do. Finally, and this might be the most important part. While handling the phone to her, there will be a talk. A long talk. We'll explain to her the risk, the pressure, the temptations, and all we can think of to help her understand this is not something to be taken lightly, but we will also insist a lot on the fact that we are always here if she has any problem (this applies more broadly of course). So here's our approach: Clear rules, a well-defined environment that doesn't restrict her much, but with the knowledge that she can always rely on us if anything happens. Bonus tip I learned via a friend this weekend: We'll tell her that if something difficult she can't share with us, there is always her godmother she can talk to, who will take the appropriate action. We are her parent, not her prison guard. Now, we'll see how this evolves in a few months/years...
• Aerbil313 3y ago
  Complete restriction of iPhone until the age of 18. Every app that is gonna be installed needs to be allowed by me. Accessible domains are whitelisted. There are time limits on everything.
• fbomb 3y ago
  My policy has always been to not have children.
• nrlucas 3y ago
  It depends on your child. That's it. My kids are 9 and 6 and the older is impulsive/adhd, so I am very careful with her. She used to want to watch kids playing with toys / unboxing videos when they were in vogue years ago and I shut that down quickly. I want her to play with those things, not watch someone else. We allow a <2hours of screentime a day; TV or Chromebook. But it's mostly the former. I have adguard at home where I sheepishly block things when they find sites I don't like and they use their schools Chromebooks at home which already is pretty restrictive. Only Roblox on the tablet. Their friends have smart phones, which I find abhorrent. Although her friends are breaking them and parents are just not replacing them, so at this point it's moot. The unrestrictive iPad time I hear from her that other kids get is annoying and won't happen here.
• dqjackso 3y ago
  Your thread focuses on harm to learning, and you say there is not a single study with the opposite results. Naturally, most of the replies have been drawn to debating screen time, probably influenced by the CDC and NIH recommending screen time limits in the very early 2000s in the post Y2K panic fallout. This article dives deep into screen time, citing research that indicates that there is no causal proof between the quantity of time children spend online/on social media and any specific outcome. https://www.lucieslist.com/guides/screen-time-kids-research/ https://www.lucieslist.com/guides/screen-time-kids-research/ To me, it seems we might be echoing the technology panic cycle that has existed with penny novels, the cinema, the radio, comic books, role-play games like DnD, the internet, video games, and now smartphones and social media.