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Business Insider[0] and WSJ[1][2] have reported on this over the years. I also do not think its fair to discount away people who live in "highly desirable" urb

Business Insider[0] and WSJ[1][2] have reported on this over the years. I also do not think its fair to discount away people who live in "highly desirable" urban environments. Beyond a simple dislike of that idea, most of the jobs that do pay over 100K existed near them for decades, and with RTO in full swing, it seems most of them are going back to those cities one way or another. WFH does not appear to be a permanent boon for employees at large. Given this reality, the metrics around those cities are important to consider as well. [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-to-buy-house-six-figure-salary-not-enough-2021-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-to-buy-house-six-fi... [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-million-u-s-households-making-over-150-000-are-still-renting-48bd48e4 https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-million-u-s-households-ma... [2]: Tried getting an archive link for WSJ but it kept failing. I know its paywalled, will comment if I get a working link

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
The Journal article profiles people choosing not to buy. I did the same in New York—I couldn’t make the rent v. buy math work. > do not think its fair to discount away people who live in "highly desirable" urban environments I’m not if they’re reasonable. I am if they want three bedrooms and a yard and amenities in the hottest neighbourhood that means they make zero compromises for urban living. You can buy a solid one-bedroom co-op in Manhattan for less than $750k, in some places less than $500k.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  I know we can all think of people being unreasonable, but I don't trust that its the norm, given my own experiences in trying to get out of the rent cycle and others I've talked to. We aren't all trying to get 3 bed w/ a yard and amenities in the ultra desirable neighborhoods. I'd take a 2 bedroom in a safe neighborhood that maybe even doesn't have a yard (or has a really small one) and I can't even come at that reasonably EDIT: I work and live in a Tier 2 city where home prices are a median of 500K. This isn't SF, Manhattan or Seattle etc.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > a 2 bedroom in a safe neighborhood that maybe even doesn't have a yard (or has a really small one) This is a lot in a tier 1 city! Consider the de-densification that would be required to bring New York to that level of space for everyone.
    - no_wizard 3y ago
      Not sure if you saw the edit, but I live in what is traditionally considered a Tier 2 city (Portland area) by most (all?) accounts. I face prices that are more appropriate for a Tier 1 city, and constraints more appropriate for a Tier 1 city, without the adjustments to wages of a Tier 1 city. This isn't wholly unique to Portland either. Some of this is policy, some of this is locality, some of it is state quirks, but generally speaking, policy does not reflect reality no matter where you look
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Portland actually has the tech jobs and salaries to stoke its housing prices, or no one could afford them. But I get the feeling that lower end wages must be less than Seattle given how much more affordable the restaurants are, that non tech jobs aren’t keeping up.
      - kasey_junk 3y ago
        Portland is considered a highly desirable city! Oklahoma City is similarly sized and has a median home price half of Portland.
        no_wizard 3y ago
        It’s a Tier 2 city by Amy definition of that term I’ve ever read
        kasey_junk 3y ago
        Not by the definition real estate investors use: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/real-estate-tier-classifications-tier-1-tier-2-and-tier-3.asp#:~:text=These%20cities%20have%20the%20most,developing%20their%20real%20estate%20markets https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/real-estate-tier-classi....
archo 3y ago
[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-million-u-s-households-ma https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-million-u-s-households-ma... [2]: Tried getting an archive link for WSJ but it kept failing. I know its paywalled, will comment if I get a working link https://archive.is/vnM52 https://archive.is/vnM52 : Three Million U.S. Households Making Over $150,000 Are Still Renters

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

The Journal article profiles people choosing not to buy. I did the same in New York—I couldn’t make the rent v. buy math work. > do not think its fair to discount away people who live in "highly desirable" urban environments I’m not if they’re reasonable. I am if they want three bedrooms and a yard and amenities in the hottest neighbourhood that means they make zero compromises for urban living. You can buy a solid one-bedroom co-op in Manhattan for less than $750k, in some places less than $500k.

no_wizard 3y ago
I know we can all think of people being unreasonable, but I don't trust that its the norm, given my own experiences in trying to get out of the rent cycle and others I've talked to. We aren't all trying to get 3 bed w/ a yard and amenities in the ultra desirable neighborhoods. I'd take a 2 bedroom in a safe neighborhood that maybe even doesn't have a yard (or has a really small one) and I can't even come at that reasonably EDIT: I work and live in a Tier 2 city where home prices are a median of 500K. This isn't SF, Manhattan or Seattle etc.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > a 2 bedroom in a safe neighborhood that maybe even doesn't have a yard (or has a really small one) This is a lot in a tier 1 city! Consider the de-densification that would be required to bring New York to that level of space for everyone.
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    Not sure if you saw the edit, but I live in what is traditionally considered a Tier 2 city (Portland area) by most (all?) accounts. I face prices that are more appropriate for a Tier 1 city, and constraints more appropriate for a Tier 1 city, without the adjustments to wages of a Tier 1 city. This isn't wholly unique to Portland either. Some of this is policy, some of this is locality, some of it is state quirks, but generally speaking, policy does not reflect reality no matter where you look
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Portland actually has the tech jobs and salaries to stoke its housing prices, or no one could afford them. But I get the feeling that lower end wages must be less than Seattle given how much more affordable the restaurants are, that non tech jobs aren’t keeping up.
    - kasey_junk 3y ago
      Portland is considered a highly desirable city! Oklahoma City is similarly sized and has a median home price half of Portland.
      - no_wizard 3y ago
        It’s a Tier 2 city by Amy definition of that term I’ve ever read
        kasey_junk 3y ago
        Not by the definition real estate investors use: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/real-estate-tier-classifications-tier-1-tier-2-and-tier-3.asp#:~:text=These%20cities%20have%20the%20most,developing%20their%20real%20estate%20markets https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/real-estate-tier-classi....

archo 3y ago

[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-million-u-s-households-ma https://www.wsj.com/articles/three-million-u-s-households-ma... [2]: Tried getting an archive link for WSJ but it kept failing. I know its paywalled, will comment if I get a working link https://archive.is/vnM52 https://archive.is/vnM52 : Three Million U.S. Households Making Over $150,000 Are Still Renters