8 ms·

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really

by ori_b 3y ago

> If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” I don't want to work with people that communicate this way.

anon84873628 3y ago
Are you saying you don't want to work with the people who use praise w/ direction? That is my assumption about what you meant given that it seems like the contrary opinion and thus the reason for replying. If that's the case, care to elaborate why you don't like that style?
- camhart 3y ago
  Because its confusing. Don't say that you like something when you don't. It's a failure to communicate.
- function_seven 3y ago
  I'll share my reason. It's phony as hell. If someone is legitimately angry or disappointed with my performance, just say it. Don't construct a "compliment sandwich" and patronize me with that.
  - jasonlotito 3y ago
    Considering this is about how you communicate with others, you are saying people should consider the way you want to be communicated with, but you should be able to ignore how others want to be communicated with? That just makes you a disappointing, inefficient hypocrite.
    - function_seven 3y ago
      No, I didn't say any of that. I would like people to be straight with me. I try to be straight with them. Golden Rule and all of that, right?
      - gretch 3y ago
        > I would like people to be straight with me But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Perhaps that person is trying to not throw the baby out with the bath water. “Hey I’m glad you patched the bug, but can you give the SREs a heads up next time? They p0’ed on an expected traffic spike” The person is actually happy with you for fixing a bug. They don’t want to you take away that in the future, to not take initiative and fix bugs.
        qwytw 3y ago
        "Hey I’m glad you patched the bug, but.." To me that just sounds passive aggressive and sort of like "you should mind your own business". I'd feel better you if someone just told me: "I saw you patched a bug, could you do X" or even just "can you give the SREs a heads up next time?" alone. Then again I'm used to a culture where any praise is ussually implicit and criticism tends to be quite explicit so it's easy to interpret words like "glad" etc. as insincere by default without even wanting too..
        anon84873628 3y ago
        Because the example is oversimplified for the sake of HN commentary. In the real world it goes more like this: "Hey, I saw you patched that bug that was causing traffics spikes. That's awesome work and I appreciate your proactivity! The Ops team thought we had to work late tonight to implement mitigations for the problem. In fact, it looks like we had a communication breakdown and they didn't realize you had fixed the issue until 6 hours later. In the future do you think you could let them know when this sort of problem is fixed, just to make sure we're all on the same page? We'll have to look at a solution for automated alerts too -- maybe an integration with the ticket system or build system. Do you have any ideas for that so we don't have to rely on manual communication? We're moving so fast that it's hard for everyone to keep up! Thanks again for the great work."
        function_seven 3y ago
        > But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Yeah, I do. And when I get genuine compliments, I like them! But it's obvious when someone consistently prefaces their statements with "softening" compliments. When they're "deploying" a "communications strategy." Talk to me like a real person, please. It will make it easier for those compliments to land when recipients know they're real. But if you're the type to always lead with one, then they're all worthless. You're just a happy-talker. Your praise is empty.
- skrebbel 3y ago
  Im not the GP but it hides all clarity wrt how important the colleague thinks the “directions” that the praise came along with are. If I accept the praise but dismiss the directions, am I being an asshole? Or am I being subordinate? Am I ignoring a direct order? The boss was in the room and they didn’t object to the directions! What does it all mean? All this is a level of 4D interpersonal chess that you’re forcing me to play that could simply be avoided if you said that you think its worth changing it like so and so because such and such.
  - anon84873628 3y ago
    Fair point. I think it comes down to knowing your audience, which is always the most fundamental and important part. Coworkers with lots of rapport can be very direct with each other. Or a neurodivergent person who struggles with social/verbal cues may be much better served with succinct direct feedback (and likewise not feel the sting and demotivation that the initial strategy is intended to avoid)
- edgarvaldes 3y ago
  >I really liked how you tackled this Because you open the communication with a lie.
  - koliber 3y ago
    Such communication style can work well, but only if it is genuine. When people do mess up, there is often something good in the mix. It’s possible to lead with a compliment to point out what was done well, and follow up with constructive criticism. It’s about style. When done well, you don’t notice it and you like it. If done awkwardly or stiffly, it feels fake, patronizing, and disingenuous.
    - qwytw 3y ago
      The shit sandwich approach... But yeah if you're a person who's only capable of complaining and criticizing others (assuming it's perfectly legitimate/reasonable) you might struggle communicating with most people who don't know you really well/are used to different culture.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - gretch 3y ago
    Well, only if it is a lie. The example is a hypothetical story so we can read into it whatever we want. There are ways to like someone’s work, even if you don’t think it’s complete or optimal. For example, I think a huge part of getting a job done is just having someone take initiative and at least try, as opposed to waiting for someone else to start them off. The line might mean “I’m glad you started us down this road…”
graypegg 3y ago
I kind of agree, I don’t want to work with a HR robot. I know someone that talks like this to non-coworker friends and it’s honestly just… offputting. I’m more into “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road”. And that opens up a two ended respectful conversation. Someone telling that to me, I’m not going to think they’re being an asshole. I’ve learned a lot from people stopping me from firing a footgun directly into my… foot.
- neilv 3y ago
  > “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road” If the context is that someone is speaking about something they think they know, and which would be acted upon, what about phrasing the concern as a question, like "How does that approach handle {problem}?"? (Not that I always practice this, because I don't. But probably it's generally best if I don't assume I'm right. Risks include people who misinterpret question-asking.)
  - breakfastduck 3y ago
    thats even more patronizing imo.
    - neilv 3y ago
      Are you assuming that you're right?
      - graypegg 3y ago
        I think it's about tone; it feels patronizing to me as well. "How does this approach handle {problem}?" is very socratic. You're asking a question meant to make them reconsider their idea in a very round about way. I think that actually comes off as assuming you're right in this conversation. I would imagine the person asking me that is being a snobby asshole showing off how intelligent they are. It's on the other person to try and piece together your wisdom you've delivered in cryptic socratic whataboutisms. If two doctors are having a conversation about a treatment, do you think they have these roundabout conversations or do they just say "No, his liver is shot, he can't take that." We're professionals too. We should have enough mutual respect for each other to be upfront.
esafak 3y ago
That's a cultural and personal thing. Consider the recipient's preferences. If you would like to learn about these cultural preferences, read Erin Meyer's The Culture Map. https://erinmeyer.com/books/the-culture-map/ https://erinmeyer.com/books/the-culture-map/
- conception 3y ago
  This is why the Golden Rule is wrong. Not “Do unto others as you would have them to do to you.” but instead “Do unto others how they uhh want to be done unto.” Different folks, different strokes.
  - esafak 3y ago
    Some call that the Platinum Rule.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Problem is that you don't know what others want and it takes time to establish that. Even then they may not necessarily know what they want. People change their minds. It's a rule of thumb regardless. not an ironclad rule. generally, people want to be treated respectfully, so treat them respectfully and course correct if cultural/social lines demand it.
- ori_b 3y ago
  Yes. If you like that kind of culture, feel free to seek it out. I would not enjoy that kind of workplace, and if I accidentally join a place that leaned very heavily on that communication style, I would likely leave quickly.
  - bumby 3y ago
    There's something to be said to adapting to the environment rather than expecting the environment to fit your whims. Sometimes you should change your approach in the vein of being more effective at your job. Most reasonably sized organizations are going to have a mixed of people with different preferences; jumping ship every time the culture doesn't meet your ideal seems like you may end up switching jobs often enough to not have much of an impact. (I know job-hopping is a discussion all its own)
jasonlotito 3y ago
> I don't want to work with people that communicate this way. "I don't want to work with people efficiently, and would rather cling to inefficient ways."
- stcroixx 3y ago
  It’s not efficient to send 3 messages when only one is needed.
- loco5niner 3y ago
  I think you have the efficiency backwards.
borroka 3y ago
It is the HR-motivated eternal infantilization of the people. In fact, to the person who went through mental and physical developments with no blockages or traumas, it comes across as a quite paternalistic way of communicating, but it is a style liked and embraced by corporate coaches, HR, and the informal CYA policies.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  I don’t think it has to be that deep. The world is a big place, full of many cultures that operate - especially with giving criticism - very differently. You don’t need to master the tone of every culture, but it’s important to at least be cognisant that even these difference exist.
  - borroka 3y ago
    I don't see my comment as particularly profound. I have lived for a few decades at this point and have noticed, like anyone else I imagine, a desire in (some, but a nontrivial percentage of) people to maintain lifelong ways of thinking and behaving that have been historically associated with early life. For example, a desire to be praised and not challenged, to dress like a teenager even as one nears retirement, to show a degree of enthusiasm for pedestrian events that was once reserved for major accomplishments.
    - pbourke 3y ago
      > to dress like a teenager even as one nears retirement For some of us this is a KPI of our life/job satisfaction. I can tell you that if I was in some job that did not allow me to schlep around in hoodies and cargo pants I would be much, much less happy than I am today.
      - borroka 3y ago
        I don't like to judge the appearance of others and prefer just to maintain high standards for myself. My comment was descriptive and not normative. I like working out and being in shape, but if others prefer to do some side project at night instead of hitting weights, it is fine with me. I enjoy reading and thinking, but if others prefer to watch reality tv, who am I to judge them? Admittedly, seeing some of my middle-aged colleagues who are complete slobs, from their worn-out clothes to their prominent bellies to their unkempt hair and beards and some fun smell coming out of them, is a stress-test for the fortitude of my beliefs.
stcroixx 3y ago
Me either. Prefer honest direct communication in a business setting.
eweise 3y ago
I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising your coworkers is a an issue.
- jahsome 3y ago
  I personally prefer earnest over disingenuous. There are fewer opportunities to misunderstand. A question by it's nature isn't aggressive. The words "should" and "we" are the real cancers IMO, as in "we should have done..." I think your example of have you thought about, vs. Why did you is potentially better but I personally don't have an issue answering either question or feel attacked in either case. I would on the other hand be concerned about working with someone immature enough to read in so far to perfectly innocuous curiosity.
  - jcuenod 3y ago
    There are intelligent people who are great at ingenuous praise. I'm not one of them, but often in striving for the former, I fail at the latter. Smart people are able to find things that are praiseworthy, which gives greater credibility to questions and critique.
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  That's different though. I don't think your parent meant the "have you tried this approach" part but the very very fake and passive aggressive praise that then is turned into "actually I don't think you did great, please try this other approach". That's so fake and irritating.
  - eweise 3y ago
    Yeah I agree that comes across as fake, especially if done constantly. But its still good to recognize your peers effort even if sometimes it results in the wrong outcome.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
f1shy 3y ago
>> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” So, basically lie in the face. How could that be good advice?! If I do not like it, I would just say it. One thing is being polite, other completely different to be a liar.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  How is that praise?
mavelikara 3y ago
I really like how direct you have been in stating your preference, but have you thought about an approach where tailoring your message to the audience to produce the best reception?
dahwolf 3y ago
Me neither. I would reply with: "Thanks that you liked it, I'm always happy with positive feedback so will share it widely within the team and towards my manager. When I get home I'll also tell my wife and put it in the family's group chat. Grandma's FB post should be up soon". Don't lie to my face. I'm not a moron nor a child. You didn't like how I tackled it at all. You can just say that and point to tangible things where I went wrong. Any working professional should be able to handle that. And not just that, embrace it, it's a learning experience.
playing_colours 3y ago
I think it is a matter of culture. I personally would prefer a straightforward approach, and I think many of my German colleagues, but I think my British colleagues would prefer that indirect way of communications.
wkjagt 3y ago
I also hate this. When someone tells me they really like how I did something, when they clearly don't and only say so to package their criticism, I find it hard to take their criticism seriously because at that point I no longer know which parts are honest anymore. But it seems to be a cultural thing. I've noticed when I moved from The Netherlands to North America, that people here are often less direct, and actually appreciate the packaging. People seem to be more easily shocked when things are said in a more direct way. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but going from one culture to another it can cause unpleasant situations, on both sides.
rectang 3y ago
I've found that people who prefer to receive "direct" critiques don't object to genuine praise accompanying suggestions, and so there's no need to adapt communication styles to omit praise. But I personally can't adapt to the subset of people who spin a preference for receiving "direct" critiques into a penchant for giving critiques with no consideration whatever for preserving the face of the recipient. My worst experiences have been with people who make a big deal about being "direct" but are actually quite psychologically astute and who find ways to smuggle maximum cruelty within their "direct" critiques, yet without going over the line where a sanction would be justified.
pickingdinner 3y ago
It's tough to argue against better communication and kinder words, but having to care about someone's feelings (ego) when just trying to solve a problem is a problem in itself, and if you're a competent engineer, then it's the much harder problem. I'd rather work with someone who says, "fuck, why did I do it this way," first. To that I'd say, "it's not the end of the world, let's get on this."

by ori_b 3y ago

anon84873628 3y ago

Are you saying you don't want to work with the people who use praise w/ direction? That is my assumption about what you meant given that it seems like the contrary opinion and thus the reason for replying. If that's the case, care to elaborate why you don't like that style?

camhart 3y ago
Because its confusing. Don't say that you like something when you don't. It's a failure to communicate.
function_seven 3y ago
I'll share my reason. It's phony as hell. If someone is legitimately angry or disappointed with my performance, just say it. Don't construct a "compliment sandwich" and patronize me with that.
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  Considering this is about how you communicate with others, you are saying people should consider the way you want to be communicated with, but you should be able to ignore how others want to be communicated with? That just makes you a disappointing, inefficient hypocrite.
  - function_seven 3y ago
    No, I didn't say any of that. I would like people to be straight with me. I try to be straight with them. Golden Rule and all of that, right?
    - gretch 3y ago
      > I would like people to be straight with me But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Perhaps that person is trying to not throw the baby out with the bath water. “Hey I’m glad you patched the bug, but can you give the SREs a heads up next time? They p0’ed on an expected traffic spike” The person is actually happy with you for fixing a bug. They don’t want to you take away that in the future, to not take initiative and fix bugs.
      - qwytw 3y ago
        "Hey I’m glad you patched the bug, but.." To me that just sounds passive aggressive and sort of like "you should mind your own business". I'd feel better you if someone just told me: "I saw you patched a bug, could you do X" or even just "can you give the SREs a heads up next time?" alone. Then again I'm used to a culture where any praise is ussually implicit and criticism tends to be quite explicit so it's easy to interpret words like "glad" etc. as insincere by default without even wanting too..
        anon84873628 3y ago
        Because the example is oversimplified for the sake of HN commentary. In the real world it goes more like this: "Hey, I saw you patched that bug that was causing traffics spikes. That's awesome work and I appreciate your proactivity! The Ops team thought we had to work late tonight to implement mitigations for the problem. In fact, it looks like we had a communication breakdown and they didn't realize you had fixed the issue until 6 hours later. In the future do you think you could let them know when this sort of problem is fixed, just to make sure we're all on the same page? We'll have to look at a solution for automated alerts too -- maybe an integration with the ticket system or build system. Do you have any ideas for that so we don't have to rely on manual communication? We're moving so fast that it's hard for everyone to keep up! Thanks again for the great work."
      - function_seven 3y ago
        > But you understand that people can genuinely like you right? Yeah, I do. And when I get genuine compliments, I like them! But it's obvious when someone consistently prefaces their statements with "softening" compliments. When they're "deploying" a "communications strategy." Talk to me like a real person, please. It will make it easier for those compliments to land when recipients know they're real. But if you're the type to always lead with one, then they're all worthless. You're just a happy-talker. Your praise is empty.
skrebbel 3y ago
Im not the GP but it hides all clarity wrt how important the colleague thinks the “directions” that the praise came along with are. If I accept the praise but dismiss the directions, am I being an asshole? Or am I being subordinate? Am I ignoring a direct order? The boss was in the room and they didn’t object to the directions! What does it all mean? All this is a level of 4D interpersonal chess that you’re forcing me to play that could simply be avoided if you said that you think its worth changing it like so and so because such and such.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Fair point. I think it comes down to knowing your audience, which is always the most fundamental and important part. Coworkers with lots of rapport can be very direct with each other. Or a neurodivergent person who struggles with social/verbal cues may be much better served with succinct direct feedback (and likewise not feel the sting and demotivation that the initial strategy is intended to avoid)
edgarvaldes 3y ago
>I really liked how you tackled this Because you open the communication with a lie.
- koliber 3y ago
  Such communication style can work well, but only if it is genuine. When people do mess up, there is often something good in the mix. It’s possible to lead with a compliment to point out what was done well, and follow up with constructive criticism. It’s about style. When done well, you don’t notice it and you like it. If done awkwardly or stiffly, it feels fake, patronizing, and disingenuous.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    The shit sandwich approach... But yeah if you're a person who's only capable of complaining and criticizing others (assuming it's perfectly legitimate/reasonable) you might struggle communicating with most people who don't know you really well/are used to different culture.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- gretch 3y ago
  Well, only if it is a lie. The example is a hypothetical story so we can read into it whatever we want. There are ways to like someone’s work, even if you don’t think it’s complete or optimal. For example, I think a huge part of getting a job done is just having someone take initiative and at least try, as opposed to waiting for someone else to start them off. The line might mean “I’m glad you started us down this road…”

graypegg 3y ago

I kind of agree, I don’t want to work with a HR robot. I know someone that talks like this to non-coworker friends and it’s honestly just… offputting. I’m more into “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road”. And that opens up a two ended respectful conversation. Someone telling that to me, I’m not going to think they’re being an asshole. I’ve learned a lot from people stopping me from firing a footgun directly into my… foot.

neilv 3y ago
> “ehhh honestly not how I would do it. The {problem} will cause issues down the road” If the context is that someone is speaking about something they think they know, and which would be acted upon, what about phrasing the concern as a question, like "How does that approach handle {problem}?"? (Not that I always practice this, because I don't. But probably it's generally best if I don't assume I'm right. Risks include people who misinterpret question-asking.)
- breakfastduck 3y ago
  thats even more patronizing imo.
  - neilv 3y ago
    Are you assuming that you're right?
    - graypegg 3y ago
      I think it's about tone; it feels patronizing to me as well. "How does this approach handle {problem}?" is very socratic. You're asking a question meant to make them reconsider their idea in a very round about way. I think that actually comes off as assuming you're right in this conversation. I would imagine the person asking me that is being a snobby asshole showing off how intelligent they are. It's on the other person to try and piece together your wisdom you've delivered in cryptic socratic whataboutisms. If two doctors are having a conversation about a treatment, do you think they have these roundabout conversations or do they just say "No, his liver is shot, he can't take that." We're professionals too. We should have enough mutual respect for each other to be upfront.

esafak 3y ago

That's a cultural and personal thing. Consider the recipient's preferences. If you would like to learn about these cultural preferences, read Erin Meyer's The Culture Map. https://erinmeyer.com/books/the-culture-map/ https://erinmeyer.com/books/the-culture-map/

conception 3y ago
This is why the Golden Rule is wrong. Not “Do unto others as you would have them to do to you.” but instead “Do unto others how they uhh want to be done unto.” Different folks, different strokes.
- esafak 3y ago
  Some call that the Platinum Rule.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Problem is that you don't know what others want and it takes time to establish that. Even then they may not necessarily know what they want. People change their minds. It's a rule of thumb regardless. not an ironclad rule. generally, people want to be treated respectfully, so treat them respectfully and course correct if cultural/social lines demand it.
ori_b 3y ago
Yes. If you like that kind of culture, feel free to seek it out. I would not enjoy that kind of workplace, and if I accidentally join a place that leaned very heavily on that communication style, I would likely leave quickly.
- bumby 3y ago
  There's something to be said to adapting to the environment rather than expecting the environment to fit your whims. Sometimes you should change your approach in the vein of being more effective at your job. Most reasonably sized organizations are going to have a mixed of people with different preferences; jumping ship every time the culture doesn't meet your ideal seems like you may end up switching jobs often enough to not have much of an impact. (I know job-hopping is a discussion all its own)

jasonlotito 3y ago

> I don't want to work with people that communicate this way. "I don't want to work with people efficiently, and would rather cling to inefficient ways."

stcroixx 3y ago
It’s not efficient to send 3 messages when only one is needed.
loco5niner 3y ago
I think you have the efficiency backwards.

borroka 3y ago

It is the HR-motivated eternal infantilization of the people. In fact, to the person who went through mental and physical developments with no blockages or traumas, it comes across as a quite paternalistic way of communicating, but it is a style liked and embraced by corporate coaches, HR, and the informal CYA policies.

madeofpalk 3y ago
I don’t think it has to be that deep. The world is a big place, full of many cultures that operate - especially with giving criticism - very differently. You don’t need to master the tone of every culture, but it’s important to at least be cognisant that even these difference exist.
- borroka 3y ago
  I don't see my comment as particularly profound. I have lived for a few decades at this point and have noticed, like anyone else I imagine, a desire in (some, but a nontrivial percentage of) people to maintain lifelong ways of thinking and behaving that have been historically associated with early life. For example, a desire to be praised and not challenged, to dress like a teenager even as one nears retirement, to show a degree of enthusiasm for pedestrian events that was once reserved for major accomplishments.
  - pbourke 3y ago
    > to dress like a teenager even as one nears retirement For some of us this is a KPI of our life/job satisfaction. I can tell you that if I was in some job that did not allow me to schlep around in hoodies and cargo pants I would be much, much less happy than I am today.
    - borroka 3y ago
      I don't like to judge the appearance of others and prefer just to maintain high standards for myself. My comment was descriptive and not normative. I like working out and being in shape, but if others prefer to do some side project at night instead of hitting weights, it is fine with me. I enjoy reading and thinking, but if others prefer to watch reality tv, who am I to judge them? Admittedly, seeing some of my middle-aged colleagues who are complete slobs, from their worn-out clothes to their prominent bellies to their unkempt hair and beards and some fun smell coming out of them, is a stress-test for the fortitude of my beliefs.

stcroixx 3y ago

Me either. Prefer honest direct communication in a business setting.

eweise 3y ago

I do. Having worked with so many engineers with almost no social skills, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their communication style. "Why didn't you do it this way?" is aggressive and critical. "have you thought about this approach?" makes them feel like you have their back and are trying to help. I agree there's not a huge need to the "I really liked how you tackled this" part but even never praising your coworkers is a an issue.

jahsome 3y ago
I personally prefer earnest over disingenuous. There are fewer opportunities to misunderstand. A question by it's nature isn't aggressive. The words "should" and "we" are the real cancers IMO, as in "we should have done..." I think your example of have you thought about, vs. Why did you is potentially better but I personally don't have an issue answering either question or feel attacked in either case. I would on the other hand be concerned about working with someone immature enough to read in so far to perfectly innocuous curiosity.
- jcuenod 3y ago
  There are intelligent people who are great at ingenuous praise. I'm not one of them, but often in striving for the former, I fail at the latter. Smart people are able to find things that are praiseworthy, which gives greater credibility to questions and critique.
tharkun__ 3y ago
That's different though. I don't think your parent meant the "have you tried this approach" part but the very very fake and passive aggressive praise that then is turned into "actually I don't think you did great, please try this other approach". That's so fake and irritating.
- eweise 3y ago
  Yeah I agree that comes across as fake, especially if done constantly. But its still good to recognize your peers effort even if sometimes it results in the wrong outcome.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

f1shy 3y ago

>> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” So, basically lie in the face. How could that be good advice?! If I do not like it, I would just say it. One thing is being polite, other completely different to be a liar.

gabereiser 3y ago
How is that praise?

mavelikara 3y ago

I really like how direct you have been in stating your preference, but have you thought about an approach where tailoring your message to the audience to produce the best reception?

dahwolf 3y ago

Me neither. I would reply with: "Thanks that you liked it, I'm always happy with positive feedback so will share it widely within the team and towards my manager. When I get home I'll also tell my wife and put it in the family's group chat. Grandma's FB post should be up soon". Don't lie to my face. I'm not a moron nor a child. You didn't like how I tackled it at all. You can just say that and point to tangible things where I went wrong. Any working professional should be able to handle that. And not just that, embrace it, it's a learning experience.

playing_colours 3y ago

I think it is a matter of culture. I personally would prefer a straightforward approach, and I think many of my German colleagues, but I think my British colleagues would prefer that indirect way of communications.

wkjagt 3y ago

I also hate this. When someone tells me they really like how I did something, when they clearly don't and only say so to package their criticism, I find it hard to take their criticism seriously because at that point I no longer know which parts are honest anymore. But it seems to be a cultural thing. I've noticed when I moved from The Netherlands to North America, that people here are often less direct, and actually appreciate the packaging. People seem to be more easily shocked when things are said in a more direct way. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but going from one culture to another it can cause unpleasant situations, on both sides.

rectang 3y ago

I've found that people who prefer to receive "direct" critiques don't object to genuine praise accompanying suggestions, and so there's no need to adapt communication styles to omit praise. But I personally can't adapt to the subset of people who spin a preference for receiving "direct" critiques into a penchant for giving critiques with no consideration whatever for preserving the face of the recipient. My worst experiences have been with people who make a big deal about being "direct" but are actually quite psychologically astute and who find ways to smuggle maximum cruelty within their "direct" critiques, yet without going over the line where a sanction would be justified.

pickingdinner 3y ago

It's tough to argue against better communication and kinder words, but having to care about someone's feelings (ego) when just trying to solve a problem is a problem in itself, and if you're a competent engineer, then it's the much harder problem. I'd rather work with someone who says, "fuck, why did I do it this way," first. To that I'd say, "it's not the end of the world, let's get on this."