8 ms·
"residential explosions" sounds like it was gas leaks or some other accidents, but in fact it was "gang bombings" according to the text of the article
by tomp 3y ago
"residential explosions" sounds like it was gas leaks or some other accidents, but in fact it was "gang bombings" according to the text of the article
- tokai 3y agoNothing confirmed yet, but its usually hand grenades.
- imartin2k 3y agoAlso often home-built thermos bombs are being used. Those might actually be the more common form nowadays.
- pclmulqdq 3y agoWait, "usually"? This is a usual occurrence in Sweden?
- DrFlipper 3y ago[flagged]
- hef19898 3y agoSince immigrants in Germany are not throwing grenades, it is an unnecessary generalozation. It is also an over simplification of the situation in Sweden. And premature, as nothing seems to be known for certain yet. And it is a tiny bit racist, ypur comment I mean.
- ipaddr 3y agoThere have been problems with rape and other crimes in Germany. Not sure it's working well either.
- tyingq 3y agoThere are some differences. Sweden, for various reasons, seems to cluster immigrants into fewer places with more of them all together. And the clustering creates service shortages for police, social services, jobs, etc. This makes for more kids that should be in school to not be in school, and also higher unemployment than there would be if they were more spread out. That heavy clustering also creates fewer opportunities to integrate with the locals, so the immigrant communities are more insular. All of that makes it easier for extremists to recruit, intimidate, organize, etc.
- horseRad 3y agoDo you have any references that Sweden clusters more immigrants to fewer places than anyone else? Housing doesn't just pop out of thin air. We have 3 cities with over 200k in population. Otherwise top 10 is 100k+. Just last year we took in 100k. Do you expect us to just pop up houses uniformly? One here, one there? Of course clusters build with the magnitudes we take in.
- tyingq 3y agoYour Prime Minister talked about it: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/sweden-s-prime-minister-calls-for-end-to-ethnic-enclaves/2668032 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/sweden-s-prime-minister-call... But, that thing you're citing about a limited number of cities that could handle immigration is a good example of why it might be different for Sweden vs Germany.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- DrFlipper 3y agoIt's hard to imagine that if a huge number of Swedes were dumped in close proximity in Somalia, that they would sit around collecting benefits, forming gangs to beat, rape, and rob the native people, and blame it all on the Somalis and their government for not giving them enough handouts and advantages to succeed. There's some other cause (which can't be said aloud).
- dist-epoch 3y agoPolice in Germany is a bit more strict about grenades than the one in Sweden. In bigger German train stations you regularly see machine-gun armed police.
- hef19898 3y agoSub-machine guns, I have yet to see police carrying MG3s... And that has nothing to do with illegal hand grenades...
- fluoridation 3y agoIf the distinction is irrelevant, "machine gun" is an appropriate term to refer to any fully automatic firearm.
- adammarples 3y agoMachine guns fire rifle cartridges
- Pungsnigel 3y agoNot sure how it's racist. It's exclusively done by immigrants in Sweden? Surely that's a factor that is relevant to the discussion?
- lynx23 3y agoYou are right, refugees in germany seem to prefer stabbing minor girls with knives. Watch out for ghetto streets, there might be grenades coming soon.
- hef19898 3y agoAnd there I was, believing our immigrant were all rapists. At last that's what our far right wants us to believe... Isn't stabbing the UK-based immigrant problem?
- Gareth321 3y agoMigrants in Sweden are far over-represented in crime. Especially violent crime. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338563093_Migrants_and_Crime_in_Sweden_in_the_Twenty-First_Century https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338563093_Migrants_... All of the bombings are gang related, and gang members in Sweden have a disproportionately foreign background. There is nothing to gain here by pretending this isn't happening. People are literally dying. No one mentioned any races, and conflating "immigrant" with any particular race is misleading at best.
- hef19898 3y agoNot disputing the nbers, why would I? But painting it as problem purely caused by migration, and I highly doubt we talk about people from Germany, Denmark or Norway, has some xenophobic undertones, doesn't it?
- Gareth321 3y agoThe gang crime is, almost entirely, driven by 1st or 2nd generation migrants. https://www.gulf-insider.com/almost-all-gang-members-in-sweden-are-either-1st-or-2nd-generation-migrants/ https://www.gulf-insider.com/almost-all-gang-members-in-swed... There is no use in splitting hairs on this one. The issue is clear.
- colpabar 3y agoYour sources aren't worth reading because I don't like the conclusions they support. /s
- slily 3y agoGiven the very loose definition of racism and xenophobia these days, you may be right, but in the same sense that you can call a woman sexist for not wanting to be followed by a man when walking alone at night. Calling her a sexist repeatedly does not make her behavior unfounded or unreasonable.
- marginalia_nu 3y agoAs far as I understand, it's a relatively global operation. Swedish gangs essentially franchise the business model from the Mexican cartels. Swedish immigrants are susceptible to this because Sweden did a spectacularly poor job at integrating these people. The idea was to liberally accept immigrants to solve the demographic crisis and the pension system, but along the way most of the immigrants who moved to the country were let down and given fairly shitty life prospects. Turns out these people aren't filled with grateful joy over having undignified dead end jobs and living in dinky apartments in segregated communities in derelict apartment buildings from the '70s. Quelle surprise.
- shrimp_emoji 3y agoThese are not American-style (overseas) immigrants, with relative wealth and degrees. These are poor refugees who might never have wanted to live in the West anyway. Integrating them in an advanced European monoculture sounds like an impossible social engineering task, no?
- marginalia_nu 3y agoYeah, I think the project was pretty naive. I think there has been a somewhat conceited attitude among the Swedish political class to assume that Swedish values and ideals are an inevitable logical conclusion from enlightenment, and if someone doesn't share these values, it's because the poor souls haven't been informed of the correct way to think yet, and when encountering superior Swedish values, they willingly abandon their unenlightened opinions and assume the enlightened values of Sweden in their place. Well as it turns out these values are a logical conclusion only if you've been indoctrinated in them since you were a toddler.
- eesmith 3y agoSurely "monoculture" is an exaggeration. The Swedish population includes a large number of Finns, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden says even 50 years ago 10% of the population was born to foreign born mothers. If Sweden isn't a monoculture then your argument suggests integration should be possible, yes? That doesn't mean it would be easy to integrate refugees. Just look at how hard it was for Miami to integrate Cuban refugees. Anti-Castro extremists, for example, set off car bombs in the 1970s and 1980s. http://cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0073.html http://cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0073.html Knowing this, yes, other European countries should have done more, to helped share the effort needed. To make sure I understand the topic, I researched more about Sweden's multicultural history. https://www.informationsverige.se/en/om-sverige/individens-rattigheter-och-skyldigheter/rattigheter-for-nationella-minoriteter-och-urfolk.html https://www.informationsverige.se/en/om-sverige/individens-r... says "There are five recognised historical national minorities in Sweden: Jews, Roma people, Sami people, Sweden Finns, and Tornedalians" and historically they were deliberately oppressed by monocultural policies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornedalians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornedalians gives one example: > Tornedalians were the targets of extensive so-called "racial biology" and swedification policies. In the early-to-mid 1900s Herman Lundborg and others from the State Institute for Racial Biology performed skull measurements on Tornedalians, with Lundborg performing the first measurements in 1913. At the same time speaking Finnish in schools was banned in parts of the country, including the Torne Valley. This ban was only revoked by the Riksdag in 1957. How does that fit into your concept of "monoculture" in Sweden?
- lucasRW 3y agoSo if it's "racist" you are implying that you identified a certain "race" while the comment was mentioning immigrants, which could well be white but apparently you have other non-white immigrants in mind and therefore came yourself to a "racist" conclusion ?
- lucasRW 3y ago[flagged]
- hef19898 3y agoTaking this comment thread into account, I'll just add submissions about gang violance in Sweden to the list of submissions I routinely flag. Along with discussions about the homeless and crime in SF. None of the comment under those submissions are worthy of what HN is supposed to be.
- DrFlipper 3y ago[flagged]
- codr7 3y agoMy brief experience of living in Germany says that they're doing a better job of integrating immigrants. In Sweden they're basically dumped in a suburb and ignored, until they start blowing things up that is.
- the_third_wave 3y ago> they're basically dumped in a suburb They are not "dumped in a suburb" by the authorities but actively choose to move there. This is made possible by a law - EBO or "eget boende" (own accommodations) - which gives asylum seekers and their relatives the right to choose their own domicile. The current government wants to abolish this law [1] since it makes it harder to integrate/assimilate people who end up living in ethnically segregated areas. [1] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/regeringen-vill-avveckla-ebo-lagen-forsvarat-integrationen https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/regeringen-vill-avveckla-...
- codr7 3y agoIt's not like they have much of a choice, though. I'm pretty sure many would have preferred a nice house by the water. My point is that no one gives a shit about making them part of society.
- the_third_wave 3y ago> My point is that no one gives a shit about making them part of society. Those who want to become part of society are carried on hands and portrayed proudly in the media as examples of the success story of Swedish migration policies - unless they dare to criticise those same policies of course. The problem is that people are not encouraged to integrate or assimilate into Swedish culture as that goes against the multicultural ideals written into the Swedish 'constitution' (Sweden is actually governed under a collection of law instead of a single constitution but these serve the same purpose). Encouraging newcomers to... - learn Swedish as soon as possible... - try celebrating midsommar (the midsummer festival) and jul (Christmas) in some way to show they are interested in the customs and culture of the country which took them in instead of segregating themselves into their own cultural traditions.... - make eye contact with 'strangers' - the person at the cash register, the conductor on the train, etc - instead of looking away as is common for women in many middle eastern cultures, telling men from those same cultures than a woman who looks them in the eyes is not 'interested' in them but simply follows western-European customs where it is considered proper and polite to look others (of both sexes) in the eyes. - keep check on their children when they are out in the streets. Swedish children are raised by their parents, not by the neighbourhood. Sending your children out on the streets without supervision will and does lead to problems since Swedish adults will not tell of misbehaving children other than their own. - etc. ...is frowned upon since it goes against the aforementioned multicultural ideals.
- ArnoVW 3y agois there reason to believe it is an immigration-related attack? in the Netherlands we are seeing an uptick of grenade-attacks, and they are generally related to criminal organisations.
- krona 3y agoA distinction without a difference.
- ArnoVW 3y agoorganized crime is not restricted to immigrants. For example: Hell's Angels were famously declared an illegal organisation in the Netherlands. Not sure they have a lot of turkish or maroccan immigrants. Have a look at the wiki page on organized crime in the Netherlands, and check the family names of the most recent cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_the_Netherl...
- madspindel 3y agoYes, huge problem here. I don't even care anymore when I hear about it.
- ngc248 3y agoThere is a wiki page too --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...
- sva_ 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- semi-extrinsic 3y agoYes. Fascinatingly enough it's not been as bad in neghbouring countries, leading to the term "we don't want Swedish conditions over here". It probably is because Sweden has taken on much more immigrants, to the point where the percentage of Swedish residents born outside Sweden is 3x higher than in Norway and Denmark. This has probably overloaded the capacity of the social security system, and has lead to a greater extent of neighbourhoods where almost every older adult is a poor first-generation immigrant.
- the_third_wave 3y agoNo, it is not related to an overloading of the social security system in that way. Yes, the system is overloaded by having a large new contingent of non-contributing individuals partaking of the payouts but this has not led to a decrease in those payouts, far from it. A family with 5 children can get enough money from the state - in 2016 the amount was 32.800 kr according to a calculation published by Riksdagen (the Swedish parliament) which comes down to a lower middle class income - for a reasonably comfortable life without ever having to seek employment. The problem is cultural, not economical. The Swedish state has, following a decision pushed by Olof Palme on Sweden having to become 'a multicultural state like the United States of America where Swedish culture is no longer the single dominant one' followed a policy to not only allow but encourage migrants to not integrate or assimilate into Swedish culture but to keep and strengthen their own, paid for largely by the Swedish state through subsidies for ethnically segregated cultural organisations. This has led to the establishment of ethnically segregated areas in many of the larger cities with names like 'lilla Mogadishu' (little Mogadishu), 'lilla Kabul', 'lilla Bagdad' and more. It has led to objectively unexplainable situations where a regime-supporting Eritrean cultural festival is organised in Stockholm by "refugees" from the same regime which then attracts opponents to the regime from all over Europe who come there to make war on those same regime-supporting "refugees" [1]. It has led to parts of Göteborg - the second largest city in Sweden - being under the virtual control of the Ali Khan clan [2] with members erecting road blocks to keep out authorities, somewhat comparable to the way road blocks were erected in Portland OR but far more established than those temporary eruptions of anarchy. Sweden is now a cauldron bubbling with different factions - Afghans, Somalians, Moroccans, Iraqi, Syrians, Turks, Lebanese, Ugandans, Eritreans and more - striving for dominance in different types of organised crime. The multicultural 'experiment' has failed spectacularly and disastrously as was foreseen by many but which was not to be spoken of in fear of being labelled a 'racist' or 'nazi'. This labelling still continues and the denial still prevails but the subject has become more approachable due to the fact that the results of this failure are clearly and undeniably visible for anyone to see. What remains is to find a solution for the problems caused by the near half century of mismanagement and misdirection which keeps those aspects of Swedish culture and society which made it successful and worthy of emulation but does away with the ideologically driven mistakes. Given that the political party most (but certainly not solely) responsible for these failures - Socialdemokraterna or "the social democrats" - is and has for a long time being the largest and most dominant party combined with the fact that political parties in general and this party in particular are not known for admitting to past mistakes it remains to be seen whether and if so to what extent this will happen. [1] https://www.tv4.se/artikel/3qmMWIhaUax7HuAl2mQxOF/kaos-vid-jaervafaeltet-en-skadad-i-oroligheterna https://www.tv4.se/artikel/3qmMWIhaUax7HuAl2mQxOF/kaos-vid-j... an [2] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khan-klanen https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khan-klanen
- marginalia_nu 3y agoIt's been happening a lot lately. Last decade or so we've began to have a real gang problem. It wasn't helped by the fact that hand grenades were classed as illegal fireworks up until like 2017, and fairly risk free to smuggle into the country.
- nonethewiser 3y agoBut its gotten worse since 2017 and wasn’t a problem until ~10 years ago. Clearly hand grenade laws are not the root cause.
- marginalia_nu 3y agoAt that point Sweden was already flush with hand grenades and various other arms. They were closing the barn doors after the horse had bolted.
- nonethewiser 3y agoAt what point? 2005 when it wasnt a problem?
- marginalia_nu 3y agoHand grenades are weapons of war with no civilian applications, and should never have been classified as anything else.
- nonethewiser 3y agoHand grenades are clearly not the primary cause since they were legal for a long time before this became a problem. Its also not clear that they account for more recent bombings. Whether or not you think they should be legal is completely beside that point of them being the primary cause, which you pivoted away from. Likely because its hard to support.
- lucasRW 3y agoSimple, import the 3rd world, become the 3rd world, what baffles me is that it really takes 10,20, 30 years of live experience for some people to start understanding (much too late) this very simple fact.
- mberning 3y agoEvery other word is a euphemism. 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
- krisoft 3y ago> Every other word is a euphemism. What do you want the news to say when it is not yet known who did it and what exactly exploded? Do you want them to lie? Or do you want them to push through the police cordon and do their own investigation faster and better than the police does?
- dathinab 3y agothe reason it uses that term is that "gang bombings" in international press paints a very different, AFIK incorrect, picture The thing is Sweden has problems with people blowing up stuff with bombs since years, BUT it's also since years that this acts in most cases _only target property_, e.g. a police booth, but not people. I.e. no injured people is more the norm then it is a lucky confidence. on the other hand unrelated people dying because of gang violence is kinda common in the many counties. So when youn read "gang bombings" it's much more likely to be associated with an act with the intention or willingness to kill people then an act with the intention to cause property damage
- tapland 3y agoImport of hand grenades was legal leading up to the series of explosions a few years ago. It has quieted down a lot since, until very recently.
- marginalia_nu 3y agoThis isn't the IRA. There are no warning calls to the police to get people to evacuate. These are the same people who gun down their targets on crowded streets in broad daylight. The fact that relatively few people have gotten killed is entirely due to luck and the relatively low yield of the explosions (usually hand-me-down hand grenades from the Balkans wars).
- dathinab 3y agoI never said they are not bad people. I said that it's misleading if put in the title in international because people only read the title and put it into context with their expectation. And in many counties the implicit reading would be "gang tires to kill people with bomb" which makes it look like Sweaden is falling apart both of which just isn't the case so I'm the title speaking about residental explosions and then in the body exploding properly what that means makes a lot of sense
- marginalia_nu 3y agoIt is a problem though. We shouldn't become desensitized to daily headlines of explosions and assassinations in broad daylight because only a few hundred people are killed each year. That shit will never be normal.