14 ms·
Oh, we've already arrived at Slaughterbots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU
by i_am_jl 3y ago
Oh, we've already arrived at Slaughterbots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU
- RealityVoid 3y agoEverytime I see the Slaughterbots video posted, I roll my eyes. There are currently many weapons capable of VAST destruction, and suddenly _this_ is where we should start drawing the line? If military drones were to become real and as capable as in the video, they would be hard to aquire, maintain, operate and keep hidden. Besides that, yes, I do tend to believe that autonomous flying drones will play a large role in future conflicts. This dude I follow on Reddit thinks this based on what he is seeing going on in Ukraine[1]. I got sold on it as a possibility. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CredibleDefense/comments/15uimh0/credibledefense_daily_megathread_august_18_2023/jws1zm6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CredibleDefense/comments/15uimh0/cr...
- asah 3y agoToday's news: https://globalpulsenews.com/putins-colonel-killed-in-drone-strike-while-mowing-lawn-at-his-russian-residence/ https://globalpulsenews.com/putins-colonel-killed-in-drone-s...
- networkchad 3y ago[dead]
- Teever 3y ago> they would be hard to aquire, maintain, operate and keep hidden. How exactly? Are you expecting some sort of DRM in all commercial EDA and CAD software? Will opensource CAD and EDA software become illegal? Will customs search all packages from Chinese PCB manufacturers for illicit drone designs? Of course a nuclear weapon can kill more people than a drone swarm, but that's besides the point. What exactly does non-proliferation look like for drone swarms? What happens when the cost of a drone swarm drops to $10?
- bhhaskin 3y agoYou don't need to worry about the drones themselves. The drones are useless without the explosive munitions. Good luck acquiring that without raising any flags. Not to mention somehow acquiring all the training data and ML modals to actually make them useful. Then there is the compute power that would be needed and coms infrastructure. it puts it firmly out of reach for anyone that isn't state sponsored. Not saying autonomous weapons won't/couldn't be an issue. just pointing out that drone swarms won't be.
- yreg 3y agoWhat makes you sure that the ML models to actually make them useful won't be available on huggingface?
- Teever 3y agoImprovised explosives are trivial to make, motivated people will find a way. If they can make meth, marijuana, or moonshine they can make explosives. The rest of the issues are mere technical speedbumps that industrious open source people will cruise over.
- toss1 3y ago>>explosive munitions. Good luck acquiring that without raising any flags Not if you were a bit precocious in HC chemistry; I know my friends and I were not even close to alone in knowing all kinds of interesting fireworks recipes, all of which were well tested, and could be configured for anything from a small 'pop' to far more power than a slaughterbot. All from basic chemicals that can be easily be acquired without raising an eyebrow (could alternatively just repurpose a bullet/ shotgun shell, very easily obtained). The ability to put it right on target means that very little is needed. >>acquiring all the training data and ML modals to actually make them useful. Sure, if you are looking for fully ai-controlled and integrated with a city-wide CCTV system, that's a big task. But drone control and swarming is already out of the bag. Even a basic open-source Pixhawk does obstacle avoidance, and so can likely be reprogrammed for obstacle-targeting. Multiple off-the-shelf drones have done "follow-me" for years. I'd be astonished if a competent team with five-figure funding couldn't make a working system that could be deployed near a target, ID, it and home in. We're way past needing state funding. The fact that it is not here suggests that while the scenario is scary, it is not actually that useful? Perhaps that's hoping too much.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago[Nah] Being afraid of automated, weaponized drones [!!!] Being afraid of social media enabling something like automated, weaponized drones This boogieman from the future is kind of overshadowing the fact that social media is already weaponized and used to harm people, and can be used in increasingly effective ways without the need for shaped charges or even physical objects.
- trevor-e 3y agoIt's the precision and nimbleness that's scary to me compared to weapons capable of vast destruction.
- soligern 3y agoVast destruction is almost never used because of the consequences and collateral damage. Surgical, cheap attacks would be used on an everyday basis. This is what makes it terrifying. It doesn’t even have to be murder, even surveillance would be the end of a way of life.
- PeterStuer 3y agoThere is a vast difference between the 'surgical' precision footage pushed through regime media such as CNN, and the reality of undiscriminate carnage in the actual warzone.
- jiggawatts 3y agoYou should watch more combat footage on Reddit. Artillery is woefully ineffective against even lightly protected troops. It takes about a dozen expensive 155mm shells to get one kill against troops out in the open. It still takes about two of the much more expensive cluster munitions to get one kill. The submunitions in those things are about as expensive as a “murder bot” would be. An actual person-seeking drone might have a failure rate lower than 50%. A single shell with 20 mini drones could take out a dozen troops, even if they’re in a trench, or spread out, or lying on the ground to avoid shrapnel. It would be the end of infantry warfare, forever. Squishy meat troops can’t evade tiny bots with 1000 fps cameras and inhuman reaction times.
- dredmorbius 3y agoSquishy meat troops can so long as they're outside of battery range. That said, within battery range looks pretty grim.
- SubiculumCode 3y agoSo you are saying we should stop researching solar panel tech? ;)
- dredmorbius 3y agoSince you mention it: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37287190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37287190> Though that does raise some interesting relationships between insolation and combat situations. Night-time, winter (short daylight cycles and low solar angle), and overcast / stormy weather might favour infantry over solar-powered / assisted drones.
- asah 3y agoDrone range can be extended, either with battery resupply drones or by landing recharging (e.g. solar) Water is not a deterrent - Ukraine has already deployed drone watercraft.
- 3y ago
- zizee 3y agoThe entire premise of the video is not what is possible right now, but what could be possible in the not to distant future. I.e. that these drones do become available to anyone. Easy to acquire, maintain, operate and keep hidden. It's also not about warring states, but instead very targeted assassinations, where the perpetrators doesn't have to be anywhere near the target, allowing very little risk of punishment, retaliation, or even identification.
- coderenegade 3y agoAren't assassinations targeted by definition? And surely this kind of thing is already doable if you're motivated enough, e.g. every smart phone is both an identity mechanism and a signal (thanks to all of the tracking/location systems) that could probably be used to guide a weapon system to an intended target. Hell, there was a kiwi engineer who built a cruise missile in his garage almost 20 years ago. I don't know that a killbot system offers much of an improvement over existing methods for the difficulty of execution, with the probable exception of, say, air superiority where the capability of autonomous systems will far surpass human ability. But even there we're probably two generations away from fully autonomous systems; the next generation seems to be robotic wingmen. What really stops the average person from building these systems isn't necessarily the difficulty of the system itself, but rather the impossibility of getting the components. The drone is just a delivery mechanism for the ordinance, and good luck getting your hands on that. Also, for said killbots to be anything other than a trivial threat (just jam the signal) they would need pretty decent onboard AI to function independently, which I guess is the point they're trying to make. But there are almost certainly far easier and more cost effective ways to get the same effect that don't rely on currently non-existent technology.
- zizee 3y ago> Aren't assassinations targeted by definition? Sure. I should have said assassinations and targetted attacks. The video shows the ability to target specific races/genders/demographics. > The drone is just a delivery mechanism for the ordinance, and good luck getting your hands on that. I don't know why a shotgun cartridge could not be used in place of a shaped charge. Just pop down to your local Walmart. You seem to be arguing that this work speculative fiction isn't interesting because we already have a huge number of ways to kill people, and that it's not currently possible. The point of this sort of fiction is to get us to imagine a world where these things are possible, where it is achievable.
- kypro 3y ago> If military drones were to become real and as capable as in the video, they would be hard to aquire, maintain, operate and keep hidden. Couldn't a terrorist load an explosive on a drone and drove it into a music festival or some other open-air large gathering? This is what concerns me personally. Although long-term (~10 years) I wouldn't bet on more capable weaponised drones being hard to aquire, maintain, or operate.
- i_am_jl 3y agoSomeone tried to assassinate Nicolas Maduro with drones carrying explosives back in 2018. Protections against this sort of thing usually exist in the form of radio jammers; disrupting the control transmission from the pilot or the video transmission from the drone. If the control system is onboard the drone it's a lot harder to disrupt. As far as I know the systems designed to counter this sort of threat look like shipping container sized microwave emitters that interfere with the electronics of the UAV.
- badideathrway1 3y ago[dead]
- chasd00 3y agoAt ACL (Austin city limits), a music festival in TX, as soon as the sun goes down you see drone leds overhead everywhere. It wouldn’t be that hard.
- jillesvangurp 3y agoAny of the drones used in the Ukraine right now would be able to do a lot of damage. And those things are relatively low tech. The reason these horror scenarios aren't so common is that most people simply are not suicidal murderers. It's always been easy to target crowds of people. But it's not that common for people to actually do that. When it does happen, there usually isn't a happy end for anyone involved with the attack. Any determined idiot armed with a knife, baseball bat, truck, improvised explosives, etc. would be able to do quite a bit of damage. And in the US you can of course add all the light military gear that lots of people there buy for fun (assault rifles, etc.). That sometimes goes horribly wrong of course but you don't need drones to do a lot of damage.
- flangola7 3y ago>If military drones were to become real and as capable as in the video, they would be hard to aquire, maintain, operate and keep hidden. Really? Because as of right now everyone in HN and other tech communities thinks government regulation of AI is "market capture" and should be blocked entirely. Many will not be convinced until the horse is already long gone. The parts to make an 8 inch kill drone (except the explosive, but you could use a blade or other simple weapon) from scratch are sold at microcenter. The only missing piece is the software.
- dralley 3y ago"I can only imagine what would happen for example if the US still had a relatively large contingent in Afghan, and the militants got a supply of even few hundred high precision aerial IEDs per month." Not much need to imagine. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12fl7lq/ukrainian_fpv_drone_is_pursuing_russian_infantry/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/12fl7lq/ukra...
- progrus 3y agoSQL is more dangerous.
- 01100011 3y agoStill need to solve the power problem. When drones can fly for 8+ hours straight or charge themselves using the electrical infrastructure then I'll worry about "Stabby the Robot". AI isn't really the limiting factor as far as I can tell. We have good enough pattern recognition and flight software already.
- bunabhucan 3y agoStabby could be sent to wait on the ground until the microphone detects footsteps.
- _ea1k 3y agoIn a warzone, AI is a big factor. GPS and control signal jamming have proven to be somewhat effective countermeasures. But what happens when the drone is navigating with a camera and selecting its own target based upon training?
- 01100011 3y agoI'm not worried about battlefields in the "stabby the robot" scenario. I'm worried about unprepared civilians being exsanguinated en masse by a fleet of drones. The scary scenario as far as I'm concerned, is mass genocide based on some characteristic. 10k drones wiping out 100k civilians who are identifiable based on location, skin color, clothing or some other measure. It's a scenario that has seemed vaguely plausible to me for several years now. I refer to it as "stabby the robot" because drones wielding blades or other means of exsanguination do not run out of ammo and have little limitations on how much they can achieve their goals(other than powering themselves).
- IshKebab 3y agoNo no, didn't you read the article? > Real-world applications include environmental monitoring or disaster response. Disaster response. There's absolutely no way this would be used for any form of military application ok?
- jameshart 3y agoIt’s made by a team from Zürich. If the Swiss army get hold of this technology then the applications will cover everything from whittling wooden sticks, to removing screws, to opening wine bottles. Advanced models might even have a toothpick or a pair of nail scissors.
- morkalork 3y agoThe only thing they missed on is that POV footage from the drones would get published online and people would makes memes out of it.
- bhouston 3y agoYou know that drones are killing front line soldiers in the Ukraine-Russia war every day on both sides. The videos are all over Twitter. Warning this is NSFL: https://twitter.com/search?q=ukraine%20drone%20russians&src=typed_query&f=top https://twitter.com/search?q=ukraine%20drone%20russians&src=...
- EGreg 3y agoPeople don’t understand what SWARMS of bots can do. Online reputational attacks overnight. Astroturfing a revolution on any topic. Disinformation at massive scale. Amassing karma points and deploying sleeper accounts with morals totally off. Destroying forums and overwhelming every human fitting a filter. Getting people into trouble easily in 800 different ways (think Trump lawsuits) And this is before we ever get to the physical world. People are still stuck wondering how a poker bot will do at a table with 9 humans. The issue is what will humans do when surrounded by self-organizing swarms of 10000 bots for every human?
- olabyne 3y agoSlaughterbots is already doable for years. Buy a DJI Tello, a 100$mini drone with a python sdk. Recover video stream and target whatever you want.