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Past Covid infection protection against re-infection: a systematic meta-analysis
- PBnFlash 3y agoNow that covid is endemic it's just another flu.
- ericmcer 3y agoI've had covid 3 times. Would rather get it 3 more times than get the flu a single time. Other than paranoia about having it, the actual symptoms have been a mild to bad cold for all my family/friends.
- lockhouse 3y agoNot sure why you’re downvoted. It’s not significantly more lethal at this point than seasonal flu. The only difference to the population that I see is that vaccines for COVID have less efficacy than those for influenza.
- Clubber 3y agoMy concern is that there isn't going to be much research on a proper vaccine since the Pharma companies are making money hand over fist on this half-assed one currently available. It was good when it came out, but based on it's effectiveness, it seems more of a stop-gap than a proper vaccine.
- ghosty141 3y agoThe big concern with covid is long covid which affects around 5% of people who got covid. Thats what scares me. When I got covid it were only 2-3 bad days and the rest was like a normal flu but I noticed it took me roughly 3 more weeks to feel 100% like I did before, mostly fitness and stamina.
- MisterBastahrd 3y agoI've never recovered. I permanently lost the ability to taste certain things and can literally get 10 hours of sleep the night before and feel exhausted by noon. I look forward to people who pretend that it's the same as the flu catching it for themselves so that they can enjoy this "no big deal."
- Contusion3532 3y agoSorry that you're suffering this way. It's infuriating to me that people downplay Covid infections when the risk of suffering from long Covid effects is very real.
- amkkma 3y agoSorry. I have a brilliant, extremely driven friend who did undergrad at an ivy. After getting covid, She had to drop out of her grad school program and her new life is a shell compared to what it used to be like. 2 years later, and there's a tiny fraction of improvement which she attributes to extreme rest. I forward her literature about emerging LC treatments and mechanisms of which her physicians are laughably ignorant. It's a sad state of affairs.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago> The big concern with covid is long covid which affects around 5% of people who got covid. Where did you get 5%? Last I saw you have a 20% chance of long covid, but it seems that was with older variants. The thing that scares me is: > up to two years after infection, at an elevated risk for many long COVID-related conditions including diabetes, lung problems, fatigue, blood clots and disorders affecting the gastrointestinal and musculoskeletal systems. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/long-covid-still-worrisome-2-years-after-infection/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/long-covid-still-worrisome-2...
- fer 3y ago> The only difference to the population that I see is that vaccines for COVID have less efficacy than those for influenza. So far COVID vaccines seem to confer protection for longer than flu ones, and the initial protection is generally higher. Not sure if it's your case, but people often forget that every year there's a new flu shot per hemisphere, and its effectiveness generally hovers at around 40-60%.
- lockhouse 3y agoThe difference is that flu vaccines actually prevent infection in many cases, whereas COVID vaccines do not prevent them, but merely lessen the symptoms and risk of hospitalization.
- fer 3y ago> The difference is that flu vaccines actually prevent infection in many cases OK > whereas COVID vaccines do not prevent them, but merely lessen the symptoms and risk of hospitalization. Is this something I can read on a peer reviewed study, or is it yet another creative definition of what "infection", "vaccine" or "symptom" really means?
- lockhouse 3y agoHere you go… https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02138-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02138-x
- fer 3y agoAre you aware that this study doesn't really support any of what you said?
- lockhouse 3y ago> Irrespective of vaccination and/or prior natural infection, SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections and reinfections remained highly infectious and were responsible for 80% of transmission observed in the study population, which has high levels of both prior infection and vaccination. This observation underscores that vaccination and prevalent naturally acquired immunity alone will not eliminate risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, especially in higher-risk settings, such as prisons.
- throwawayfear 3y ago[flagged]
- datadeft 3y ago“There were 8996 hospitalizations (538 deaths [5.98%] within 30 days) for COVID-19 and 2403 hospitalizations (76 deaths [3.16%]) for seasonal influenza,” “Compared with hospitalization for influenza, hospitalization for COVID-19 was associated with a higher risk of death (hazard ratio, 1.61 [95% CI, 1.29-2.02]).” https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2803749 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2803749 What would be interesting is to compare the numbers when flu was first happening vs covid.
- nradov 3y agoIn terms of genetics and symptoms, SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) is more similar to other common cold coronaviruses such as HCoV-OC43. It has very little in common with influenza. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-022-30658-0 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-022-30658-0
- amkkma 3y agoDo you know the rate of long term sequalae for flu and how it compares to covid?
- francisofascii 3y agoFrom what I read, for both Covid and Influenza, a certain percentage have lingering symptoms, but you cant say they are similar because some symptoms are much more life altering that others. A nagging cough is not the same as brain fog, for example. The life altering symptoms "seem" to be much worse with Covid.
- amkkma 3y agoGood point
- paulmd 3y agoWhich was projected to be the trajectory from the start. Transmissible diseases usually mutate to be less deadly over time, because killing the host is a bad reproduction strategy. Spanish Flu is still here today, it's just not crazy deadly anymore. It's just not guaranteed to be monotonic (particular strains can bump lethality upwards), and it doesn't help the people who die early on to the stronger strains, especially with an overloaded medical system. Like, we don't have hospitals overflowing into makeshift tent farms outside with freezer trucks used to handle the overload of bodies until the crematoriums can get around to them anymore, either. It's definitely trended towards reduced lethality over time.
- soperj 3y agoAre you saying AIDS has gotten less deadly over time?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- datadeft 3y agoYes. The latest variants are less deadly. There is a pretty good reason for that. If the infected lives longer it has a higher chance of a successful transmission.
- soperj 3y agoWhat are you basing this on? Looks like deaths peaked in 2004, but more people in Africa are receiving treatment. Without treatment the avg life expectancy seems to be 11 years, and doesn't look like that's changed.
- datadeft 3y agoI think there are several factors in when the deaths peaked. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-30254697 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-30254697
- 3y ago
- croes 3y agoA corona virus can't give you an flu like a in-flu-enza virus
- johnchristopher 3y ago> Now that covid is endemic it's just another flu. But it's not. I'd rather get the flu than covid.
- laxd 3y agoI wouldn't. For me, covid was just a couple of days of fever with no other symptoms. Strange feeling to get fever isolated like that. But I'd take it multiple times over the typical knocked out for a week flu with multiple flavours of suffering. That said, I did have covid vaccine up front.
- FredPret 3y agoThat could be the vaccine doing some heavy lifting for you
- Ancapistani 3y agoI didn't take the vaccine (I decided it didn't make sense for me) and have had covid twice. Once was likely Beta, the other likely Omicron. The first time around sucked. It was basically a very bad flu for about five days. I caught it on a trip to southern Mississippi, and it didn't help that I had to drive >10 hours back home without stopping anywhere that I might spread it. I ordered medicine, food, and supplies for contactless delivery and drove it nonstop. The second time I only knew it was covid because I was testing every time I had an inkling that I might have gotten it. I had a very mild fever and a runny nose for two days and nothing else. I isolated myself in my home office and managed to keep anyone else in my family from getting it, too. Everything I've experienced, heard, or read strongly indicates that each round is significantly less bad than the last.
- CurrentBias 3y ago[dead]
- COGlory 3y agoDuh? Was this really not already well understood?
- throwawayfear 3y agoFor the open-minded people who were paying attention, yes, for a while now. But for the hall monitors in the back? Not really...or maybe they were just being willfully ignorant? I'm glad there's more evidence coming along so the hall monitors in the back hear it louder and clearer. The fact that this study was funded by the Gates Foundation makes it even sweeter. :)
- m3kw9 3y agoNothing too surprising, you either get a vaccine to get some immunity or get infected first risking more severe infection to get some immunity.
- lockhouse 3y agoNot even that, the vaccines don’t prevent infection, so at this point nearly everyone has some degree of natural immunity to COVID.
- taeric 3y agoCareful there, past infections also do not prevent infection. There is no sterilizing path for corona viruses, at the moment.
- lockhouse 3y agoMy point is that the vaccines abilities were oversold and underwhelmed people with their efficacy. This and several other policy missteps have severely undermined people’s trust regarding public health institutions.
- taeric 3y agoProbably true, though most things in life are oversold. Including how well a past infection will help you out. :D I don't want to demand that we listen to experts, but I do regret people seem to have expected experts to never be wrong. And the current culture has gotten to where admitting a mistake is literally the worst thing you can do for a political stance. :(
- lockhouse 3y agoThe problem is that some of these policy decisions weren’t “mistakes”, they were deliberate politically motivated decisions.
- waynecochran 3y agoInteresting that this was funded by Bill Gates. Not saying that as a positive or negative.
- justinator 3y agoBill Gates has been funding Covid research/Covid vaccination since basically the beginning of this whole mess. Various conspiracy theories are around as to why, if you're into that sort of thing.
- conception 3y agoThe Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation funds a lot of basic research. When Covid came out, they pivoted a lot of funds into it, obviously, as it's directly in line with their charter.
- jsbisviewtiful 3y agoThe B&M Gate Foundation devotes $1.6B to fighting disease annually. It's an everyday occurrence for the organization to publish data like this and only contrarians living outside of reality will say otherwise. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about
- waynecochran 3y agoI tend to get every cold and flu that comes around. I was really sick with what I thought was the flu in Feb 2020. I never got covid-19 (afaik) even though I never went to great lengths to avoid it. Only wore masks when asked, and hung around all different crowds of folks - maskers and non-maskers. Got early vaccine but no boosters. Perhaps I got the early alpha or beta version of the disease and that is what has kept me well. Thus article hints that could be the case.
- bdamm 3y agoMy wife at the time was in the same boat. A virus hit our household in Feb 2020, she got super sick with many of the expected symptoms for COVID and remained foggy for months. However, we were living in Oregon, near the vaccine research facility in Hillsboro, which also happens to be near the primate research facility. So my theory is that the authorities saw COVID was coming and released the closest COVID (Coronavirus family) analogue they had into the population in a hope that there would be some cross protection. Oregon had one of the lowest COVID infection rates the entire pandemic. Surely not due to anyone being particularly careful.
- selectodude 3y agoThat is one heck of a theory.
- reedjosh 3y agoAs an ex-Oregonian, this is particularly interesting. To most this must just sound like craziness, and the intentional release part may be, but for sure there's a primate research facility right in Hillsboro, OR. Apparently my grandfather helped design something with the cages, which is just weird for me.
- Gasp0de 3y agoThere's a primate research facility AND someone caught the flu? That can't be a coincidence!
- purpleblue 3y agoThis study is ridiculous. The way it's worded, it makes it sound like Omicron is immune to previous infection. What they didn't study specifically was immunity of Omicron to previous Omicron infection. We all know that Omicron defeated previous immunity, but once you get infected by Omicron, you're immune to Omicron variants. This is basic science, and the fact that some doctors were trying to convince previously-infected people to get vaccinated was anti-science.
- asynchronous 3y ago“Some” doctors? This was the entire medical establishment, top-down, including several government agencies. I won’t forget what a clown show the last few years were.
- throwawayfear 3y agoWe shouldn't forget. We should know who kept advocating for lockdowns, masking, and unnecessary covid vaccinations. They should be asked why, when the data was clear even a couple years ago.
- trog 3y ago[flagged]
- calvinmorrison 3y ago[flagged]
- logicalmonster 3y agoPutting aside many of the substantial problems with analyzing data in this field, along with not covering key issues in the overall risk-management decision such as weighing the known/unknown short/long term risks from the vaccines themselves balanced against Covid, I'd like to say that this section from the summary caught my eye. > The immunity conferred by past infection should be weighed alongside protection from vaccination when assessing future disease burden from COVID-19, providing guidance on when individuals should be vaccinated, and designing policies that mandate vaccination for workers or restrict access, on the basis of immune status, to settings where the risk of transmission is high, such as travel and high-occupancy indoor settings. Note that the summary posits "when individuals should be vaccinated" not "if", as a base assumption and leaves no room for individual choice and risk-management decisions. Ditto on "designing policies that mandate vaccination". To me, the way some of these things are worded displays a starting bias and lack of credibility.
- cempaka 3y agoA certain subset of the population which supported mandates, a now obviously failed and unjustifiable policy which caused immense harm, are going to soldier on as though that was always the right thing to do, rather than deal with the cognitive dissonance involved.
- RhodesianHunter 3y agoThis is easy to say in hindsight. You would be singing a far different tune had the initial numbers turned out to be worse, or had one of the mutations led to far more severe risk. When dealing with the unknown at "global pandemic" scale, it seems better to be safe than sorry, given that you're potentially juggling millions of lives.
- logicalmonster 3y ago> it seems better to be safe than sorry All other things being equal, it is better to be safe than sorry. But that's not the choice offered. One thing that you never needed the benefit of hindsight to understand is that there's a non-trivial risk to the vaccines as well. This always exists. For instance, it took science years to understand the full impact of Thalidomide. In the small chance that these injections end up having substantial long-term problems with something like cancer or fertility, a universally applied treatment could be the destruction of humanity. Trying to compel universal injections was always a foolish risk-management decision.
- LastCovidWave 3y agoStop getting infected. Stop choosing to prolong the pandemic. All you seflish, entitled people that haven't helped or have "moved on" while serious illness continues to pervade society and unknown risks of repeated infection remain, have really shown your colours. We know what you did last COVID wave(s).
- clemailacct1 3y agoHow does one stop getting infected? Your comment is so full of emotion and offers zero insight into how to actually achieve it - therefore, it’s pretty safe to say your advice isnt helpful here. Masks and vaccinations dont prevent infections in a meaningful way. This is backed by real data and anecdotal data.
- trog 3y agoHere's my anecdotal data: I'm sitting on a bus writing this wearing a respirator, as I have every bus trip for the lady few years. I've had several vaccinations. I've changed a few behaviours, but not many (e.g. I avoid packed indoor environments where possible). I am yet to get COVID. Saying "masks" without qualifiers is mostly pointless. Most people still associate masks with basically useless blue surgical masks. Maybe I'm just lucky but the science of respirators is compelling and I find it hard to believe we wouldn't see a dramatic reduction in infection rates if everyone wore them.
- LastCovidWave 3y agoIf anything and everything you're doing isn't stopping spread and encouraging/normalizing behaviours that promote it in any way, that's where to start. The pandemic never ended. Not even talking about vaccinations (we can't vax our way out of this, was always only part of it). Masking goes a long way but is also only part of it. Stop moving around. Stop gathering. Take precautions like distancing and avoiding indoor spaces. Stop the spread. COVID never ended and as it's airborne all spaces are unsafe.
- momirlan 3y agoLooking at who funded the study gives a clue as to what the result needs to be. We know Bill Gates is heavily invested in vaccines.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y agoAre the 45% (with HUGE error bars btw) protective effect for reinfection with BA.1 referring to the protective effect where the first infection is BA.1 and the second infection is BA.1, or where the first infection is any variant and the second infection is BA.1? It's not surprising that "old" variants don't result in protection against BA.1, but it would be a bit surprising to me if BA.1 didn't trigger protection against BA.1