9 ms·

Mother is arrested in Bangladesh after son in US criticizes government online

229 points by belltaco 3y ago

SanderNL 3y ago
[flagged]
29athrowaway 3y ago
Now everyone is going to read the post, and Bangladesh through their actions admitted guilt of everything that's in the post.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Yet it is a harbinger of total information awareness by any and all authorities in the world. Governments obviously at the national level, but also regional powers, or even local governments (as the saying goes all politics is local) will be able to filter and discriminate against people based on their views. And then, there are the multinational corporations, the ultra elite, leaders like Putin and MBS that will kill someone out of whim, etc. As political institutions degrade, as in they become tools of the rich and influential rather than enforce human and constitutional rights and the fundamental rule of law, the world will become dangerous. Man, I really shouldn't be writing this I guess.
alephnerd 3y ago
Not surprised. Bangladeshi politics still has the scars of their Independence War and the subsequent coups as the families leading both the Awami Party (the ruling party) and the Nationalist Party (the current opposition but formerly in power) have been in a violent struggle with each other since the 80s (eg. The current president Sheikh Hasina literally saw her father shot by the General who's wife is leading the BNP). This rivalry has been further inflamed by the power struggle between China and India, as the BNP leans closer to China+Pakistan and the BAP leans closer to India. This has incentivized toxic political behavior - check out Nepal for another buffer zone seeing similarly dysfunctional politics. Over the past few years, BNP multiple activists have been shot and arrested, and the party was essentially banned a couple years ago, and the US has starting placing limited sanctions against the BAP, though I doubt they would have much impact as UAE+KSA+India+Thailand+Singapore haven't enforced sanctions. Also, from an ideology standpoint (though ideology doesn't really matter in Asian politics), BAP was traditionally center-left and Secular leaning while BNP was traditionally center-right and also Islamist leaning because the pro-Pakistan Islamist party Jamaat-e-Islami was banned in 2013 and it's activists joined the BNP. The politics of violence was really inflamed from the early 2010s when the founders of the JeI was executed after being found guilty of murders, rapes, and torture of Bangladeshi nationalists and Hindus during the Bangladeshi War of Independence, which then hardened the ideological battle lines. This lead to massive riots in retaliation, which had a direct impact on governance in Bangladesh and even India, as the same ethnicities live across the border. On top of that, the Rohingya refugee crisis has destabilized Eastern Bangladesh as there aren't enough jobs or ability to provide aid, causing some Rohingya to turn to the Drug Trade as Myanmar is a major Opium and Meth (ever heard of Yaba in Thailand?) manufacturing region.
- rayiner 3y ago
  This analysis is accurate, but as someone whose family left the country under General Ershad, I think it misses the forest for the trees. Sheikh Hasina's government, while repressive, is also extremely popular. Her tack to neoliberalism has been enormously successful for the country, and most Bangladeshis do not want to change course. Her approval rating in multiple polls is 70-80%: https://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/322206/why-sheikh-hasina’s-approval-rating-remains-high https://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/322206/why-sheikh.... She has the popular mandate. But in a country with the kind of history Bangladesh has had, minority movements can destabilize the government and overrule the will of the majority. It's hard to have free-wheeling political discourse in a country where people don't have a long history of democracy and aren't above using bombs and assassinations in the political process. (Last time I left the country, I did so under armed guard during a hartal.) Every fledgling democracy in Asia has gone through an authoritarian stage while the country developed and solidified its institutions. Good take from Charlie Munger on this: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8YND31g/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8YND31g/. I don't think it's even limited to Asia. The U.S. Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1798. The most important thing, I think, is that America should leave Bangladesh the fuck alone, which it has not been doing: https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/08/03/washington-bangladesh-democracy-elections-hasina/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/08/03/washington-bangladesh-d.... The United States clearly has no idea how to build democracy in the developing world. I'm scared to see this article in the New York Times, and what it might mean for what the neocons have in store for the country.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Thanks for adding this! I didn't want to talk about Sheikh Hasina's popularity because I'm not Bangla. > I'm scared to see this article in the New York Times, and what it might mean for what the neocons have in store for the country In all honestly, they can't really do much. Bangladesh is pretty insulated because most critical services are provided by Chinese and Indian companies working closely with Bangladeshi companies. Exports aren't drastically impacted either as anything Bangladeshi could be re-exported via the UAE, Singapore, or India, should worst come to worst. And most critically, the US is a bit player in the region. They have no bases, local allies, or power projection in that region.
rayiner 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- catlover76 3y ago
  I don't think the Pakistan Army needs "help" getting prime ministers out of office.
  - oa335 3y ago
    It's not that they need "help", it's that the Americans dangled incentives for them. Read the intercept article.
    - archgoon 3y ago
      [dead]
  - rayiner 3y ago
    They don’t, but they also have no reason to depose a popular guy who doesn’t step out of his lane—unless the US tells them to.
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      From your article: 'Lu then bluntly raises the issue of a no-confidence vote: “I think if the no-confidence vote against the Prime Minister succeeds, all will be forgiven in Washington because the Russia visit is being looked at as a decision by the Prime Minister,” Lu said, according to the document. “Otherwise,” he continued, “I think it will be tough going ahead.” Lu warned that if the situation wasn’t resolved, Pakistan would be marginalized by its Western allies. “I cannot tell how this will be seen by Europe but I suspect their reaction will be similar,” Lu said, adding that Khan could face “isolation” by Europe and the U.S. should he remain in office. Asked about quotes from Lu in the Pakistani cable, State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said, “Nothing in these purported comments shows the United States taking a position on who the leader of Pakistan should be.” Miller said he would not comment on private diplomatic discussions.' Yes, I think it's wholly justified for the American people and their politicians to go "Wow, you guys want to support Russia in this blatantly murderous invasion? Well our people don't look too kindly on that and our relations are going to deteriorate. We do understand this is because of Khan, so if Khan isn't leading the country, it's more acceptable." It's not regime-change for me to tell another country that their leadership concerns me, I do not support that leadership, and that I would like to trade and make less deals with you. We treat terrible governments like Putin's Russia or The Third Reich the same.
xbmcuser 3y ago
This is highlighted in the west depending on where the ruling goverment is with or against the west. Relatives of people abroad and out of reach are targeted. Currently 100s of people in Pakistan are in jail or custody as ransom for their outspoken relatives abroad.
- zogrodea 3y ago
  Here is a reference. The Intercept brought to light US pressure to remove Imran Khan as democratically elected Prime Minister recently, and the way the ruling class has responded is unnerving. https://theintercept.com/2023/08/26/pakistan-us-citizens-imprisoned-imran-khan/ https://theintercept.com/2023/08/26/pakistan-us-citizens-imp...
- l3mure 3y ago
  South Korea and the KCIA is a great example of this, where the KCIA was doing all kinds of wild stuff to maintain a West-approved military dictatorship. And of course the KCIA was created by and modeled after the US CIA. [1] > In July 1973 Kim Dae Jung spoke at [the University of Washington], in a classroom with no more than fifteen people present. A month later he was kidnapped in Tokyo by KCIA agents and nearly murdered. Seven years later when he was indicted for "treason," his criticism of the Park government at the University of Washington was included in the indictment, drawn from a tape of his remarks that one of the fifteen people had given to the KCIA. [2] > In mid-1973, amidst charges of KCIA harassment of Lee Jai-hyun, a Korean Embassy officer who refused to be reassigned to Korea, I took the initiative to meet with the FBI and called for an investigation of the KCIA in the U.S. After exploratory meetings, such an investigation began, but for reasons I have never quite understood, it did not get off the ground. When it finally petered out several months later, it had produced little more than mere confirmation of the basic information I had submitted initially. I concluded that the FBI, or those higher in authority, had no inclination to follow through on an investigation that could wind up embarrassing an ally. [1] - Korea's Place in the Sun, p. 372 [2] - The Korean CIA in the USA, https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/worldview/article/abs/korean-cia-in-the-usa/8950937336F9173A11C852CD1F8ED4F3 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/worldview/article/ab...
  - 3y ago
LikelyABurner 3y ago
[flagged]
tomohelix 3y ago
This is why I prefer anonymity for my online activities. You never know when or how your online posts will be used against you. Maybe everything I do now is appropriate and "moral" but in 20 years they would not and some nobody would grab those and slander me. You can never be sure. Back to the article, I guess one good thing coming out of this is that the guy can apply for political asylum green card now...
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > This is why I prefer anonymity for my online activities. Thats funny because this is why I think I’m starting to prefer using my real identity. When you use your real identity you behave in a way that you will stand behind. Anonymity goads you into acting in a way that you might feel embarrassed about or regret. And given that you are a real person posting online, there is always a chance you lose anonymity. It’s complicated though. Anonymity to bypass authoritarianism is obviously good. More ideally speeking, we just have stronger free speech values across society so people don’t feel like they need to hide and discourse, think, etc in secrecy.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ctoth 3y ago
    Amused to find this posted from a pseudonymous account with a blank profile.
    - 40yearoldman 3y ago
      I think we need places of both. There should be places that are facilities anonymous interactions. And others that require a real identity. This allows for more extreme and less politically favorable ideas to be explored in anonymity while providing a public place that moves slower and takes longer for ideas that are less favorable to become more favorable. We should start with congress. All votes yes or no must be attached to a name. No more of this yay or nay bs.
arrozconcosas 3y ago
[flagged]
- ffhhttt 3y ago
  You have to say/do something extremely egregious for your parents to be affected in the same way.
  - pc86 3y ago
    Unless your parents are doing the same thing it just won't happen in the US, officially or unofficially.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > Unless your parents are doing the same thing it just won’t happen in the US, officially or unofficially. While it probably won’t extend to firing, people experience significant social consequence for behavior of family members in the US (the exception seems to be “not if you aren’t also doing the same thing your family member is targeted for” but “not if you fully join in the imposition of social consequences on your family member”.)
      - pc86 3y ago
        Do you have any examples of parents bearing burdensome official or unofficial consequences of something their child did where they weren't doing the same thing themselves?
- robswc 3y ago
  True. It's a balancing act but often times goes way too far and hurts innocent people. One of the most memorable examples: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove... I don't think companies have to employ (or keep people employed) that harbor abhorrent views... problem is the "witch hunt" types that will make it their mission to get you fired over nothing.
shmde 3y ago
The guy he is in support for is a convicted war criminal[1] who raped hindu women and converted Hindus to Islam during Bangladesh Liberation war. Edit: Added link [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delwar_Hossain_Sayeedi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delwar_Hossain_Sayeedi
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  So it's good to be arrested for an opinion? Is it good that someone else is arrested for his opinion? If an opinion is a crime, would it be possible to ask for extradition? I don't see the value of your post, what are you trying to say?
  - shmde 3y ago
    I am pointing to the fact that why the persons mother was arrested. It was because he wrote a post in favour of a convicted war criminal. I have said nothing out of the subject being discussed here.
    - computerfriend 3y ago
      The point is that someone should never be arrested for what their child says.
  - bluescrn 3y ago
    If people were actually arrested for 'wrongthink', they could at least be given due process and subject to clearly defined penalties. That might be a step up from the mob justice currently doled out to people with bad opinions? It's clear that society no longer values freedom of speech, so maybe we should consider formalising the punishment for expressing wrongthink, so at least there's rules that can be applied fairly and consistently?
    - namaria 3y ago
      "The mobs are rowdy, let's dispense with democratic ideals then"
someguy7250 3y ago
Many people living in these countries, know what's going on. They silently support the violent levels of censorship because they think our government is just as bad and often hypocritical (even though the US is objectively better in most reasonable cases) IMO, the disagreement between the two political parties doesn't just cause domestic polarization, it also delays foreign progress towards democracy. People get jaded internationally from it. I'm hoping we can either have more parties or just help the two parties make up.
- ziftface 3y ago
  To add to this, funding autocratic governments in these countries with billions in "aid" also delays foreign progress towards democracy.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Democracy follows economic development, of the other way around. America and European countries all became more democratic after they became rich. Some autocratic governments can hinder economic development. Others, like in China and now Bangladesh, can be pretty competent about it.
    - blackoil 3y ago
      Yep, we all can see how democratic Saudi has become.
      - dirtyid 3y ago
        Democracy _may_ follow economic development. Economic development (as in move past developing country phase) has essentially never followed early democratic development. Poor autocrats has a chance of becoming rich autocratic or rich democratic societies. Poor democratic societies largely stays poor, with historic consistency bordering on certainty. Best thing developing countries can wish for is competent autocrat and favourable geopolitical conditions.
    - 3y ago
yumraj 3y ago
> In his Facebook post, Rahman, 30, questioned the 2013 trial and sentencing of Islamic leader Delwar Hossain Sayedee and the disappearance of a key witness for his defense. Sayedee was charged with rape, murder and the persecution of Hindus during the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971. I’m NOT justifying anything, but the story seems an opinion piece, or rather one side, purely based on the guys version. We don’t know why the mom was arrested. Son seems like an Islamist or at least someone who sympathizes with them (see above). So, it is possible that his mother was involved in the protests or at least was arrested for reasons other than simply the son’s post.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  That seems like a massive leap and the timing unlikely. I am sympathizing with this poster, does that make it likely that my mother is involved in something that should get her arrested in Bangladesh? I have noticed a distinct Hindutva streak on HN.
  - yumraj 3y ago
    We’re all giving someone a benefit of doubt. Many posters, including perhaps yourself, are giving the son & mother a benefit of the doubt. My comment above was about giving the other party an equal benefit of the doubt. In end, no one except the involved parties know the truth. I certainly don’t. Not sure why you’re bringing in hindutva to the discussion.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Many posters, including perhaps yourself, are giving the son & mother a benefit of the doubt This is the basis of fair criminal trials. Also, Bangladesh seems to have a terrible human rights record [1]. So the presumption of innocence for the mother is strengthened absent evidence of a crime (which, in a competent court system, should be public record). [1] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/bangladesh https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/bangl...
  - haltingproblem 3y ago
Animats 3y ago
Huh? Article says he criticized the Bangladeshi government.
shihab 3y ago
As a Bangladeshi who came to know this son after coming here in US, perhaps I can provide some context. The original post was about a witness, a Hindu witness, who refused to testify against the Islamist guy (saydee) government is after. His testimony was critical, Sayedee was charged with murdering his brother, but he kept refusing. You know how persuasive our govt can be- he even had to flee to India. But he never changed his position that in this particular case, Sayedee wasn't involved. It's an interesting post, but not enough to change the negative view an average Bangladeshi liberal have about Sayede. What outraged us was what happened afterwards. The govt was a quite a bit tensed after Sayedee's death recently. There was lots of people coming out to praise this guy. Awami league had to sack hundreds of its own party members, particularly from its student wing, for their sympathetic posts. Rahman was unfortunate in that his post became perhaps the most viral one among so many. Many members of the ruling party have been pretty open about the fact that they needed to make an example of out of him. Particularly egregious is the timing of her arrest, and the lazy excuse they came up with- this 60 yr old flail woman was a islamic terrorist planning to overthrow the government. It's a charge we've heard so many times over the years- the exactly same words. Actually it's a genius charge. They know it's going to silence lots of potential western criticism by tying it to Islamic terrorism. And by being so transparently bogus to us, it sends the message govt intended to send all along- shut up or you'll be next.
- flerovium 3y ago
  That sounds like totalitarianism. > ruling party Are there fair elections in Bangladesh? Why does this not hurt their election chances? Why would a people tolerate this of their government?
  - shihab 3y ago
    > Are there fair elections in Bangladesh? No. I think that answers your other questions too.
outcoldman 3y ago
As person who was born with Russian passport and US Citizen, I am in the similar situation. Two of my relatives were questioned about my position about the war in Ukraine, because of my statements on Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter. It did not go as bad, as my relatives got detained. But unfortunately everything you say online, the government can read and use against you or your family.

229 points by belltaco 3y ago

[flagged]

Now everyone is going to read the post, and Bangladesh through their actions admitted guilt of everything that's in the post.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Yet it is a harbinger of total information awareness by any and all authorities in the world. Governments obviously at the national level, but also regional powers, or even local governments (as the saying goes all politics is local) will be able to filter and discriminate against people based on their views. And then, there are the multinational corporations, the ultra elite, leaders like Putin and MBS that will kill someone out of whim, etc. As political institutions degrade, as in they become tools of the rich and influential rather than enforce human and constitutional rights and the fundamental rule of law, the world will become dangerous. Man, I really shouldn't be writing this I guess.

alephnerd 3y ago

Not surprised. Bangladeshi politics still has the scars of their Independence War and the subsequent coups as the families leading both the Awami Party (the ruling party) and the Nationalist Party (the current opposition but formerly in power) have been in a violent struggle with each other since the 80s (eg. The current president Sheikh Hasina literally saw her father shot by the General who's wife is leading the BNP). This rivalry has been further inflamed by the power struggle between China and India, as the BNP leans closer to China+Pakistan and the BAP leans closer to India. This has incentivized toxic political behavior - check out Nepal for another buffer zone seeing similarly dysfunctional politics. Over the past few years, BNP multiple activists have been shot and arrested, and the party was essentially banned a couple years ago, and the US has starting placing limited sanctions against the BAP, though I doubt they would have much impact as UAE+KSA+India+Thailand+Singapore haven't enforced sanctions. Also, from an ideology standpoint (though ideology doesn't really matter in Asian politics), BAP was traditionally center-left and Secular leaning while BNP was traditionally center-right and also Islamist leaning because the pro-Pakistan Islamist party Jamaat-e-Islami was banned in 2013 and it's activists joined the BNP. The politics of violence was really inflamed from the early 2010s when the founders of the JeI was executed after being found guilty of murders, rapes, and torture of Bangladeshi nationalists and Hindus during the Bangladeshi War of Independence, which then hardened the ideological battle lines. This lead to massive riots in retaliation, which had a direct impact on governance in Bangladesh and even India, as the same ethnicities live across the border. On top of that, the Rohingya refugee crisis has destabilized Eastern Bangladesh as there aren't enough jobs or ability to provide aid, causing some Rohingya to turn to the Drug Trade as Myanmar is a major Opium and Meth (ever heard of Yaba in Thailand?) manufacturing region.

rayiner 3y ago
This analysis is accurate, but as someone whose family left the country under General Ershad, I think it misses the forest for the trees. Sheikh Hasina's government, while repressive, is also extremely popular. Her tack to neoliberalism has been enormously successful for the country, and most Bangladeshis do not want to change course. Her approval rating in multiple polls is 70-80%: https://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/322206/why-sheikh-hasina’s-approval-rating-remains-high https://www.dhakatribune.com/opinion/op-ed/322206/why-sheikh.... She has the popular mandate. But in a country with the kind of history Bangladesh has had, minority movements can destabilize the government and overrule the will of the majority. It's hard to have free-wheeling political discourse in a country where people don't have a long history of democracy and aren't above using bombs and assassinations in the political process. (Last time I left the country, I did so under armed guard during a hartal.) Every fledgling democracy in Asia has gone through an authoritarian stage while the country developed and solidified its institutions. Good take from Charlie Munger on this: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8YND31g/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8YND31g/. I don't think it's even limited to Asia. The U.S. Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1798. The most important thing, I think, is that America should leave Bangladesh the fuck alone, which it has not been doing: https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/08/03/washington-bangladesh-democracy-elections-hasina/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/08/03/washington-bangladesh-d.... The United States clearly has no idea how to build democracy in the developing world. I'm scared to see this article in the New York Times, and what it might mean for what the neocons have in store for the country.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Thanks for adding this! I didn't want to talk about Sheikh Hasina's popularity because I'm not Bangla. > I'm scared to see this article in the New York Times, and what it might mean for what the neocons have in store for the country In all honestly, they can't really do much. Bangladesh is pretty insulated because most critical services are provided by Chinese and Indian companies working closely with Bangladeshi companies. Exports aren't drastically impacted either as anything Bangladeshi could be re-exported via the UAE, Singapore, or India, should worst come to worst. And most critically, the US is a bit player in the region. They have no bases, local allies, or power projection in that region.

rayiner 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
catlover76 3y ago
I don't think the Pakistan Army needs "help" getting prime ministers out of office.
- oa335 3y ago
  It's not that they need "help", it's that the Americans dangled incentives for them. Read the intercept article.
  - archgoon 3y ago
    [dead]
- rayiner 3y ago
  They don’t, but they also have no reason to depose a popular guy who doesn’t step out of his lane—unless the US tells them to.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    From your article: 'Lu then bluntly raises the issue of a no-confidence vote: “I think if the no-confidence vote against the Prime Minister succeeds, all will be forgiven in Washington because the Russia visit is being looked at as a decision by the Prime Minister,” Lu said, according to the document. “Otherwise,” he continued, “I think it will be tough going ahead.” Lu warned that if the situation wasn’t resolved, Pakistan would be marginalized by its Western allies. “I cannot tell how this will be seen by Europe but I suspect their reaction will be similar,” Lu said, adding that Khan could face “isolation” by Europe and the U.S. should he remain in office. Asked about quotes from Lu in the Pakistani cable, State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said, “Nothing in these purported comments shows the United States taking a position on who the leader of Pakistan should be.” Miller said he would not comment on private diplomatic discussions.' Yes, I think it's wholly justified for the American people and their politicians to go "Wow, you guys want to support Russia in this blatantly murderous invasion? Well our people don't look too kindly on that and our relations are going to deteriorate. We do understand this is because of Khan, so if Khan isn't leading the country, it's more acceptable." It's not regime-change for me to tell another country that their leadership concerns me, I do not support that leadership, and that I would like to trade and make less deals with you. We treat terrible governments like Putin's Russia or The Third Reich the same.

xbmcuser 3y ago

This is highlighted in the west depending on where the ruling goverment is with or against the west. Relatives of people abroad and out of reach are targeted. Currently 100s of people in Pakistan are in jail or custody as ransom for their outspoken relatives abroad.

zogrodea 3y ago
Here is a reference. The Intercept brought to light US pressure to remove Imran Khan as democratically elected Prime Minister recently, and the way the ruling class has responded is unnerving. https://theintercept.com/2023/08/26/pakistan-us-citizens-imprisoned-imran-khan/ https://theintercept.com/2023/08/26/pakistan-us-citizens-imp...
l3mure 3y ago
South Korea and the KCIA is a great example of this, where the KCIA was doing all kinds of wild stuff to maintain a West-approved military dictatorship. And of course the KCIA was created by and modeled after the US CIA. [1] > In July 1973 Kim Dae Jung spoke at [the University of Washington], in a classroom with no more than fifteen people present. A month later he was kidnapped in Tokyo by KCIA agents and nearly murdered. Seven years later when he was indicted for "treason," his criticism of the Park government at the University of Washington was included in the indictment, drawn from a tape of his remarks that one of the fifteen people had given to the KCIA. [2] > In mid-1973, amidst charges of KCIA harassment of Lee Jai-hyun, a Korean Embassy officer who refused to be reassigned to Korea, I took the initiative to meet with the FBI and called for an investigation of the KCIA in the U.S. After exploratory meetings, such an investigation began, but for reasons I have never quite understood, it did not get off the ground. When it finally petered out several months later, it had produced little more than mere confirmation of the basic information I had submitted initially. I concluded that the FBI, or those higher in authority, had no inclination to follow through on an investigation that could wind up embarrassing an ally. [1] - Korea's Place in the Sun, p. 372 [2] - The Korean CIA in the USA, https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/worldview/article/abs/korean-cia-in-the-usa/8950937336F9173A11C852CD1F8ED4F3 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/worldview/article/ab...
- 3y ago

LikelyABurner 3y ago

[flagged]

tomohelix 3y ago

This is why I prefer anonymity for my online activities. You never know when or how your online posts will be used against you. Maybe everything I do now is appropriate and "moral" but in 20 years they would not and some nobody would grab those and slander me. You can never be sure. Back to the article, I guess one good thing coming out of this is that the guy can apply for political asylum green card now...

nonethewiser 3y ago
> This is why I prefer anonymity for my online activities. Thats funny because this is why I think I’m starting to prefer using my real identity. When you use your real identity you behave in a way that you will stand behind. Anonymity goads you into acting in a way that you might feel embarrassed about or regret. And given that you are a real person posting online, there is always a chance you lose anonymity. It’s complicated though. Anonymity to bypass authoritarianism is obviously good. More ideally speeking, we just have stronger free speech values across society so people don’t feel like they need to hide and discourse, think, etc in secrecy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ctoth 3y ago
  Amused to find this posted from a pseudonymous account with a blank profile.
  - 40yearoldman 3y ago
    I think we need places of both. There should be places that are facilities anonymous interactions. And others that require a real identity. This allows for more extreme and less politically favorable ideas to be explored in anonymity while providing a public place that moves slower and takes longer for ideas that are less favorable to become more favorable. We should start with congress. All votes yes or no must be attached to a name. No more of this yay or nay bs.

arrozconcosas 3y ago

[flagged]

ffhhttt 3y ago
You have to say/do something extremely egregious for your parents to be affected in the same way.
- pc86 3y ago
  Unless your parents are doing the same thing it just won't happen in the US, officially or unofficially.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Unless your parents are doing the same thing it just won’t happen in the US, officially or unofficially. While it probably won’t extend to firing, people experience significant social consequence for behavior of family members in the US (the exception seems to be “not if you aren’t also doing the same thing your family member is targeted for” but “not if you fully join in the imposition of social consequences on your family member”.)
    - pc86 3y ago
      Do you have any examples of parents bearing burdensome official or unofficial consequences of something their child did where they weren't doing the same thing themselves?
robswc 3y ago
True. It's a balancing act but often times goes way too far and hurts innocent people. One of the most memorable examples: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove... I don't think companies have to employ (or keep people employed) that harbor abhorrent views... problem is the "witch hunt" types that will make it their mission to get you fired over nothing.

shmde 3y ago

The guy he is in support for is a convicted war criminal[1] who raped hindu women and converted Hindus to Islam during Bangladesh Liberation war. Edit: Added link [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delwar_Hossain_Sayeedi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delwar_Hossain_Sayeedi

lnxg33k1 3y ago
So it's good to be arrested for an opinion? Is it good that someone else is arrested for his opinion? If an opinion is a crime, would it be possible to ask for extradition? I don't see the value of your post, what are you trying to say?
- shmde 3y ago
  I am pointing to the fact that why the persons mother was arrested. It was because he wrote a post in favour of a convicted war criminal. I have said nothing out of the subject being discussed here.
  - computerfriend 3y ago
    The point is that someone should never be arrested for what their child says.
- bluescrn 3y ago
  If people were actually arrested for 'wrongthink', they could at least be given due process and subject to clearly defined penalties. That might be a step up from the mob justice currently doled out to people with bad opinions? It's clear that society no longer values freedom of speech, so maybe we should consider formalising the punishment for expressing wrongthink, so at least there's rules that can be applied fairly and consistently?
  - namaria 3y ago
    "The mobs are rowdy, let's dispense with democratic ideals then"

someguy7250 3y ago

Many people living in these countries, know what's going on. They silently support the violent levels of censorship because they think our government is just as bad and often hypocritical (even though the US is objectively better in most reasonable cases) IMO, the disagreement between the two political parties doesn't just cause domestic polarization, it also delays foreign progress towards democracy. People get jaded internationally from it. I'm hoping we can either have more parties or just help the two parties make up.

ziftface 3y ago
To add to this, funding autocratic governments in these countries with billions in "aid" also delays foreign progress towards democracy.
- rayiner 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Democracy follows economic development, of the other way around. America and European countries all became more democratic after they became rich. Some autocratic governments can hinder economic development. Others, like in China and now Bangladesh, can be pretty competent about it.
  - blackoil 3y ago
    Yep, we all can see how democratic Saudi has become.
    - dirtyid 3y ago
      Democracy _may_ follow economic development. Economic development (as in move past developing country phase) has essentially never followed early democratic development. Poor autocrats has a chance of becoming rich autocratic or rich democratic societies. Poor democratic societies largely stays poor, with historic consistency bordering on certainty. Best thing developing countries can wish for is competent autocrat and favourable geopolitical conditions.
  - 3y ago

yumraj 3y ago

> In his Facebook post, Rahman, 30, questioned the 2013 trial and sentencing of Islamic leader Delwar Hossain Sayedee and the disappearance of a key witness for his defense. Sayedee was charged with rape, murder and the persecution of Hindus during the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971. I’m NOT justifying anything, but the story seems an opinion piece, or rather one side, purely based on the guys version. We don’t know why the mom was arrested. Son seems like an Islamist or at least someone who sympathizes with them (see above). So, it is possible that his mother was involved in the protests or at least was arrested for reasons other than simply the son’s post.

whimsicalism 3y ago
That seems like a massive leap and the timing unlikely. I am sympathizing with this poster, does that make it likely that my mother is involved in something that should get her arrested in Bangladesh? I have noticed a distinct Hindutva streak on HN.
- yumraj 3y ago
  We’re all giving someone a benefit of doubt. Many posters, including perhaps yourself, are giving the son & mother a benefit of the doubt. My comment above was about giving the other party an equal benefit of the doubt. In end, no one except the involved parties know the truth. I certainly don’t. Not sure why you’re bringing in hindutva to the discussion.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Many posters, including perhaps yourself, are giving the son & mother a benefit of the doubt This is the basis of fair criminal trials. Also, Bangladesh seems to have a terrible human rights record [1]. So the presumption of innocence for the mother is strengthened absent evidence of a crime (which, in a competent court system, should be public record). [1] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/bangladesh https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/bangl...
- haltingproblem 3y ago

Animats 3y ago

Huh? Article says he criticized the Bangladeshi government.

shihab 3y ago

As a Bangladeshi who came to know this son after coming here in US, perhaps I can provide some context. The original post was about a witness, a Hindu witness, who refused to testify against the Islamist guy (saydee) government is after. His testimony was critical, Sayedee was charged with murdering his brother, but he kept refusing. You know how persuasive our govt can be- he even had to flee to India. But he never changed his position that in this particular case, Sayedee wasn't involved. It's an interesting post, but not enough to change the negative view an average Bangladeshi liberal have about Sayede. What outraged us was what happened afterwards. The govt was a quite a bit tensed after Sayedee's death recently. There was lots of people coming out to praise this guy. Awami league had to sack hundreds of its own party members, particularly from its student wing, for their sympathetic posts. Rahman was unfortunate in that his post became perhaps the most viral one among so many. Many members of the ruling party have been pretty open about the fact that they needed to make an example of out of him. Particularly egregious is the timing of her arrest, and the lazy excuse they came up with- this 60 yr old flail woman was a islamic terrorist planning to overthrow the government. It's a charge we've heard so many times over the years- the exactly same words. Actually it's a genius charge. They know it's going to silence lots of potential western criticism by tying it to Islamic terrorism. And by being so transparently bogus to us, it sends the message govt intended to send all along- shut up or you'll be next.

flerovium 3y ago
That sounds like totalitarianism. > ruling party Are there fair elections in Bangladesh? Why does this not hurt their election chances? Why would a people tolerate this of their government?
- shihab 3y ago
  > Are there fair elections in Bangladesh? No. I think that answers your other questions too.

outcoldman 3y ago

As person who was born with Russian passport and US Citizen, I am in the similar situation. Two of my relatives were questioned about my position about the war in Ukraine, because of my statements on Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter. It did not go as bad, as my relatives got detained. But unfortunately everything you say online, the government can read and use against you or your family.