9 ms·

How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews with companies that have no intention of paying you what you expect without disclosing some form of salary r

How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews with companies that have no intention of paying you what you expect without disclosing some form of salary range upfront? I've generally taken what I want to make in the role and added 20% to it as a starting point. While this might limit me, it also keeps me from doing 100 onsite interviews only to discover their max is 2/3 of my expected comp.

VirusNewbie 3y ago
for big companies a lot of salary/comp data is out there. I didn't discuss comp at all for the last 4 companies I interviewed at, since I knew they'd all beat my current comp by quite a lot.
joezydeco 3y ago
Precisely. The article misses a third bullet point: 3) Many recruiters will say yes to everything and anything to get you into the interview seat And if you're juggling multiple FAANG offers in the same week, you probably don't need salary negotiation tips.
- treprinum 3y ago
  > And if you're juggling multiple FAANG offers in the same week, you probably don't need salary negotiation tips. If they are remote jobs, you just accept them all, buy as many computers as the offers you accepted and multitask for n x the pay.
  - rmujica 3y ago
    r/overemployed is leaking
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    I thought the next step was hire N people in india to do the work, collect the difference between your salary and theirs, and apply for more jobs.
- jnwatson 3y ago
  I had 3 FAANG offers. There are so many ways to screw this up. IMHO, the article’s advice is spot-on.
- folmar 3y ago
  FAANGs can be _really accomodating_ money-wise if they badly want you. The initial offer is normally final except when it is not.
RandallBrown 3y ago
The article just avoids that problem. > very few companies pay so much below market that it would be a nonstarter I don't really agree with that statement as my experiences have been different.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  Because the marker is relative. What’s crap pay to you is a golden opportunity to others. Experience is relative as well. They may not have the experience and the company doesn’t care about that, only to fill the seat. Don’t take it personally.
  - pc86 3y ago
    Whether I am thrilled to take a $60k TC job or my absolute minimum is $400k that doesn't change the market in that 60k is insultingly low and 400k is well above the median (cue all the folks who think FAANG is the market chiming in about $450k TC juniors).
    - gabereiser 3y ago
      $60k is a lot of money in other parts of the world
      - pc86 3y ago
        Yeah, in different markets.
    - jrockway 3y ago
      Wait, which FAANG hires junior engineers for $450k?
      - Manuel_D 3y ago
        Perhaps people who joined shortly before a stock rally. I was pulling ~$270k TC at 2 YoE, but it was really ~$175k TC at the time I actually joined the company. Equity is so variable, that's why it's better to compare TC at time of offer. Of course, when I negotiate I always cite the highest stock value in the last several months.
ntac 3y ago
I ask the recruiter what the salary range is. If they refuse to say, I tell them to get back to me when they know what the range is. I'm not going to waste my time if they want to play games like being secretive about the pay.
- wuliwong 3y ago
  I do think being proactive like you suggest is a good approach. It is pretty easy to couch it in a relaxed way that you are attempting to save everyone's time and it makes them show their hand first. That way you aren't reducing the possibility of making a higher than expected salary and you can hopefully short circuit positions with companies that are below your desired range or as you said, being secretive or weird about it.
- pc86 3y ago
  I have never had issues with this approach. Yeah you'll get a few people who think they're being cute about wanting to schedule a call or whatever, but when it comes down to it "I don't move forward without knowing the budgeted range for a position" gets me a number probably 19 out of 20 times, almost always the first time too.
  - t0mas88 3y ago
    It makes no sense at all for the company or recruiter to hide the range for you. Because they would be wasting their timing doing all kinds of meetings if your expected number is far above that range.
    - pc86 3y ago
      I don't think the company with the $120-150k range is trying to hide it from the person who wants $200k, I think they're trying to hide it from the person who wants $110k. If you tell them $200k they just stop talking to you. If you tell them $110k they write it down and carry along with the process and a little green $110k next to your name.
      - 3y ago
cratermoon 3y ago
> How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews Simple. Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. When your interest in the company is sufficient, you'll be motivated to tell them that their offer is "a good starting point for discussion" and then make a counter-offer or ask for additional vacation, bonuses, or whatever you value. Conversely, if interviewing for unattractive positions that pay well is motivated by non-negotiable financial considerations (mortgage, kids in college), then by all means, be up front about it.
- operatingthetan 3y ago
  >Simple. Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. When your interest in the company is sufficient, you'll be motivated to tell them that their offer is "a good starting point for discussion" and then make a counter-offer or ask for additional vacation, bonuses, or whatever you value. This would only work in a hot market, for a desirable candidate. Not everyone has the luxury of interviewing places they really want to work at any cost.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    > This would only work in a hot market, for a desirable candidate. Not everyone has the luxury of interviewing places they really want to work at any cost. Yes, that would be an example of "non-negotiable financial considerations". I'm going of the statement of the original comment, implying they had the luxury of choosing only those positions that meet their compensation criteria.
- photonerd 3y ago
  > Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. So… literally no-where then? Because anywhere that would offer 2/3rds is not a company I’d want to work for.
  - 3y ago
HellDunkel 3y ago
I recently found out that i did not know the maximum. Only multiple offers and taking some risks allowed me to find out and it was well beyond what i had assumed.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  You're spot on, and I don't know why people complain about "wasting their time interviewing" so much. Interviewing is both a valuable skill and a good information discovery process - as you mentioned. If you are doing a lot of interviews and not getting jobs - then you need more practice doing them. If you're getting so many offers its boring, look for a way to interview for more demanding positions.
  - HellDunkel 3y ago
    The thing is, as an employee you tend to look for a new job only if you start to feel unhappy. This puts you in a slightly needy position and does set the tone. I used to be self employed and learned to enjoy the negotiations. It is kind of crazy to have this binary situation of beeing either employee or contractor but i dont have a solution either.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >I don't know why people complain about "wasting their time interviewing" so much. Interviewing is both a valuable skill and a good information discovery process - as you mentioned. for me: - it's long, often 3 stages minimum, but more typically 5-6 rounds. do I really want to take 5-10 hours per job out of my month just to "figure out my worth?". As long as I can pay the bills and I'm not miserable at my job, I'm fine. - if you have a job, it is hard to schedule around all these rounds. In addition, it feels stressful since by most intents, a company does not react well to hearing you are shopping around - it generally makes use of skills that do not reflect my performance in a job. I am 6 years into industry, I don't and never needed to invert a binary tree on the spot. Meanwhile, actual skills like proper coding practices/architecture, code review feedback, test coverages/edge cases, and the ability navigate through the company to find the person you need are barely even mentioned. - it's a sterile, artificial environment that more or less makes you put on airs to show "your best self". "why do you want to work for this company" is asked in nearly every interview setting and we all know your real answer is the wrong one, as opposed to using the time to show off how much you researched the company. Even if you basically jut googled "X engineer" and applied because the salary range fit you. I can understand testing in juniors, because there is no license exam for an engineer, and maybe on the other side of the hump you can get to a point where the companies are trying to impress you. But that middle hump feels like the worst of both worlds. >If you're getting so many offers its boring, look for a way to interview for more demanding positions. if you're at that point, you're probably not going to find your answer on the internet. those sorts of jobs are word of mouth.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Only apply to businesses that advertise pay range, or at least a minimum pay, in their job listings. It is the law in CO/NYC/WA/CA, so all the highest paying businesses have to comply anyway, and any business that wants to compete with them will have to advertise pay range also. Thus if a business does not advertise pay ranges, you can assume it will not be on the high end, at least not competitive with pay in the above regions.
- photonerd 3y ago
  A lot of businesses post stupid ranges. Like, ok your range is $150-250k, fan-fucking-tastic, that’s completely unhelpful
  - leeny 3y ago
    Author here. These ranges are typically wide because your compensation depends on your interview performance and perceived seniority/value add to the company. There's no way to tease this out before you interview, except that if you're looking for compensation that's significantly above the top of the band, it might be hard to get. (A little above the top is possible, and sometimes a lot is possible too... that's where the negotiation comes in.)
    - noitpmeder 3y ago
      I feel like it's not a great look to say "I don't know enough about the role to give you my salary expectations at this point" while also asking "but what is the salary range for this position, given you don't know enough about me". Any thoughts on how to approach that?
      - nonethewiser 3y ago
        Their range is independent of you so just dont worry about it.
      - xyzelement 3y ago
        // Any thoughts on how to approach that? This may sound quaint but I find that being forthcoming and asking the question you have works. During the latest job search, I would just ask for a range and say myself that "obviously where I fall in the range depends on my candidacy, I won't hold you to it." If they tell you the range is something like $120K to $150K, it tells you what kind of seniority they are looking for - whether they know it or not - and how much they value people of that profile. If they tell you it's like $150K to $750K - then you know they are really wide open to range of experience and impact. Someone may say that a $600K wide range is meaningless but I don't think it is. If you're more junior you can count on being towards the left but still know they can afford to give you a bit more if they like you, and if you're very senior you can recognize that they have room for someone like you and have an appetite to pay. You'd be totally self-unaware to go into the process hoping for $750 and then landing at $150 but that's more on you. So I am fine asking for a broad range - it's way more meaningful than no range.
hydroid7 3y ago
You refuse to do any unpaid "interview project" jobs. I'm not doing any "test projects" that are longer than 4h.
- deprecative 3y ago
  If they want my labor they can pay for it as far as I'm concerned. We all know it won't have anything to do with day to day responsibilities anyway.
- ghaff 3y ago
  "Portfolios" in some form are often necessary. (In my space, writing samples.) If you have those ready to go, easier for everyone! But if you don't have a relevant portfolio, you'll need to either put something together or I'll pass. (I'm not really looking for a specific assignment but just something that's representative of the type of work.)
  - deckard1 3y ago
    why would a software dev have a portfolio? The comparison to design or writing doesn't make sense. A graphic designer can point to logos or marketing material that is publicly available. I'm not going to put proprietary code on a portfolio nor am I going to spend multiple years building some open source project when I already have a full time job. Software engineering must be the only profession where employment history means nothing. And yet... interviewers always want salary history to knock you down. If you don't care about the work I did in the past, then why do you care about how much I was given for that work?
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > why would a software dev have a portfolio? For the same reason artists do -- to show a potential employer what you're capable of and what your style is. Look at it from the employer's point of view -- they have very little to go on when judging ability. If you can provide examples of your work, then you're reducing their uncertainty and giving yourself an edge for the position. > I'm not going to put proprietary code on a portfolio nor am I going to spend multiple years building some open source project when I already have a full time job. You don't have to do either of those things. Your portfolio doesn't have to include large, complex projects. A collection of smaller ones will do nicely. Or, even easier, is what I do: I just bring in the code for the most recent hobby project that I've completed. > interviewers always want salary history to knock you down You don't need to provide that history. At least, I never do. When I'm asked, I respond with what my salary expectation is, not what my salary history is.
asynchronous 3y ago
This exactly. Had way too many companies waste my time before revealing a 20-30% increase from my current comp was too much.
- throitallaway 3y ago
  If I understand things correctly, current comp shouldn't be part of the equation or talks as far as your recruiter and company that you're interviewing with are concerned. The position will have a comp range. That is not related to what you may be currently earning.
  - RhodesianHunter 3y ago
    That's not the point. The point is that most people wouldn't leave their current role without a bump, so if they'd known that up front they wouldn't have bothered with the interview.
azemetre 3y ago
If it's a well known company, I've found sites like levels [1] to be very informative and accurate. Otherwise I always just ask in the initial calls, no reason to beat around the bush. If you know what you want, you can ask what the salary range is and decide if it's worth it from there. [1] https://levels.fyi/ https://levels.fyi/
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I ask in the initial calls even when I already know what the answer is. Sometimes, there's a discrepancy between the two that can be a clue that you should look more closely to see if the company is a straight-shooter or not.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
treprinum 3y ago
They will tell you what you want to hear and still low-ball you at the very end to try the sunk cost fallacy on you.
- lolinder 3y ago
  You'll still be glad you asked up front, because that kind of BS tells you something about the company. Sure you wasted your time in the interviews, but you now know not to push back on their initial offer because you don't want to work for a company that'd pull that on you.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  The sunk cost goes both ways. The company has likewise spent a lot of time and effort interviewing you and if they are extending you an offer and you say no, the process starts over for them. Especially if you have a job already, when they want to hire you is when you have the maximum leverage.
  - treprinum 3y ago
    That's only when most of the interviews aren't automated via codility and similar atrocities. If they built or contracted a process that is scalable, interviewing you will cost them like $5 and almost no time outside maybe the final call with your future boss whereas you'll waste a lot of time.
nonethewiser 3y ago
One way or another, you DO disclose some expectations in that scenario.
kqr 3y ago
I've had some success by saying a ridiculously high number, and then quickly adding that "This is what it would take for me to accept an offer on the spot. As I learn more about the role and team and how well this would fit me, I expect that number to go down significantly." Once they've responded to that I ask something along the lines of "By the way, what's the budgeted range for this role?" or "are you forbidden from sharing the range for this role" or something along those lines. For some reason, recruiters seem more willing to share the range after I've anchored high – perhaps because they get insecure about whether they've misjudged my qualifications.

VirusNewbie 3y ago

for big companies a lot of salary/comp data is out there. I didn't discuss comp at all for the last 4 companies I interviewed at, since I knew they'd all beat my current comp by quite a lot.

joezydeco 3y ago

Precisely. The article misses a third bullet point: 3) Many recruiters will say yes to everything and anything to get you into the interview seat And if you're juggling multiple FAANG offers in the same week, you probably don't need salary negotiation tips.

treprinum 3y ago
> And if you're juggling multiple FAANG offers in the same week, you probably don't need salary negotiation tips. If they are remote jobs, you just accept them all, buy as many computers as the offers you accepted and multitask for n x the pay.
- rmujica 3y ago
  r/overemployed is leaking
- HWR_14 3y ago
  I thought the next step was hire N people in india to do the work, collect the difference between your salary and theirs, and apply for more jobs.
jnwatson 3y ago
I had 3 FAANG offers. There are so many ways to screw this up. IMHO, the article’s advice is spot-on.
folmar 3y ago
FAANGs can be _really accomodating_ money-wise if they badly want you. The initial offer is normally final except when it is not.

RandallBrown 3y ago

The article just avoids that problem. > very few companies pay so much below market that it would be a nonstarter I don't really agree with that statement as my experiences have been different.

gabereiser 3y ago
Because the marker is relative. What’s crap pay to you is a golden opportunity to others. Experience is relative as well. They may not have the experience and the company doesn’t care about that, only to fill the seat. Don’t take it personally.
- pc86 3y ago
  Whether I am thrilled to take a $60k TC job or my absolute minimum is $400k that doesn't change the market in that 60k is insultingly low and 400k is well above the median (cue all the folks who think FAANG is the market chiming in about $450k TC juniors).
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    $60k is a lot of money in other parts of the world
    - pc86 3y ago
      Yeah, in different markets.
  - jrockway 3y ago
    Wait, which FAANG hires junior engineers for $450k?
    - Manuel_D 3y ago
      Perhaps people who joined shortly before a stock rally. I was pulling ~$270k TC at 2 YoE, but it was really ~$175k TC at the time I actually joined the company. Equity is so variable, that's why it's better to compare TC at time of offer. Of course, when I negotiate I always cite the highest stock value in the last several months.

ntac 3y ago

I ask the recruiter what the salary range is. If they refuse to say, I tell them to get back to me when they know what the range is. I'm not going to waste my time if they want to play games like being secretive about the pay.

wuliwong 3y ago
I do think being proactive like you suggest is a good approach. It is pretty easy to couch it in a relaxed way that you are attempting to save everyone's time and it makes them show their hand first. That way you aren't reducing the possibility of making a higher than expected salary and you can hopefully short circuit positions with companies that are below your desired range or as you said, being secretive or weird about it.
pc86 3y ago
I have never had issues with this approach. Yeah you'll get a few people who think they're being cute about wanting to schedule a call or whatever, but when it comes down to it "I don't move forward without knowing the budgeted range for a position" gets me a number probably 19 out of 20 times, almost always the first time too.
- t0mas88 3y ago
  It makes no sense at all for the company or recruiter to hide the range for you. Because they would be wasting their timing doing all kinds of meetings if your expected number is far above that range.
  - pc86 3y ago
    I don't think the company with the $120-150k range is trying to hide it from the person who wants $200k, I think they're trying to hide it from the person who wants $110k. If you tell them $200k they just stop talking to you. If you tell them $110k they write it down and carry along with the process and a little green $110k next to your name.
    - 3y ago

cratermoon 3y ago

> How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews Simple. Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. When your interest in the company is sufficient, you'll be motivated to tell them that their offer is "a good starting point for discussion" and then make a counter-offer or ask for additional vacation, bonuses, or whatever you value. Conversely, if interviewing for unattractive positions that pay well is motivated by non-negotiable financial considerations (mortgage, kids in college), then by all means, be up front about it.

operatingthetan 3y ago
>Simple. Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. When your interest in the company is sufficient, you'll be motivated to tell them that their offer is "a good starting point for discussion" and then make a counter-offer or ask for additional vacation, bonuses, or whatever you value. This would only work in a hot market, for a desirable candidate. Not everyone has the luxury of interviewing places they really want to work at any cost.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  > This would only work in a hot market, for a desirable candidate. Not everyone has the luxury of interviewing places they really want to work at any cost. Yes, that would be an example of "non-negotiable financial considerations". I'm going of the statement of the original comment, implying they had the luxury of choosing only those positions that meet their compensation criteria.
photonerd 3y ago
> Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. So… literally no-where then? Because anywhere that would offer 2/3rds is not a company I’d want to work for.
- 3y ago

HellDunkel 3y ago

I recently found out that i did not know the maximum. Only multiple offers and taking some risks allowed me to find out and it was well beyond what i had assumed.

xyzelement 3y ago
You're spot on, and I don't know why people complain about "wasting their time interviewing" so much. Interviewing is both a valuable skill and a good information discovery process - as you mentioned. If you are doing a lot of interviews and not getting jobs - then you need more practice doing them. If you're getting so many offers its boring, look for a way to interview for more demanding positions.
- HellDunkel 3y ago
  The thing is, as an employee you tend to look for a new job only if you start to feel unhappy. This puts you in a slightly needy position and does set the tone. I used to be self employed and learned to enjoy the negotiations. It is kind of crazy to have this binary situation of beeing either employee or contractor but i dont have a solution either.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >I don't know why people complain about "wasting their time interviewing" so much. Interviewing is both a valuable skill and a good information discovery process - as you mentioned. for me: - it's long, often 3 stages minimum, but more typically 5-6 rounds. do I really want to take 5-10 hours per job out of my month just to "figure out my worth?". As long as I can pay the bills and I'm not miserable at my job, I'm fine. - if you have a job, it is hard to schedule around all these rounds. In addition, it feels stressful since by most intents, a company does not react well to hearing you are shopping around - it generally makes use of skills that do not reflect my performance in a job. I am 6 years into industry, I don't and never needed to invert a binary tree on the spot. Meanwhile, actual skills like proper coding practices/architecture, code review feedback, test coverages/edge cases, and the ability navigate through the company to find the person you need are barely even mentioned. - it's a sterile, artificial environment that more or less makes you put on airs to show "your best self". "why do you want to work for this company" is asked in nearly every interview setting and we all know your real answer is the wrong one, as opposed to using the time to show off how much you researched the company. Even if you basically jut googled "X engineer" and applied because the salary range fit you. I can understand testing in juniors, because there is no license exam for an engineer, and maybe on the other side of the hump you can get to a point where the companies are trying to impress you. But that middle hump feels like the worst of both worlds. >If you're getting so many offers its boring, look for a way to interview for more demanding positions. if you're at that point, you're probably not going to find your answer on the internet. those sorts of jobs are word of mouth.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

Only apply to businesses that advertise pay range, or at least a minimum pay, in their job listings. It is the law in CO/NYC/WA/CA, so all the highest paying businesses have to comply anyway, and any business that wants to compete with them will have to advertise pay range also. Thus if a business does not advertise pay ranges, you can assume it will not be on the high end, at least not competitive with pay in the above regions.

photonerd 3y ago
A lot of businesses post stupid ranges. Like, ok your range is $150-250k, fan-fucking-tastic, that’s completely unhelpful
- leeny 3y ago
  Author here. These ranges are typically wide because your compensation depends on your interview performance and perceived seniority/value add to the company. There's no way to tease this out before you interview, except that if you're looking for compensation that's significantly above the top of the band, it might be hard to get. (A little above the top is possible, and sometimes a lot is possible too... that's where the negotiation comes in.)
  - noitpmeder 3y ago
    I feel like it's not a great look to say "I don't know enough about the role to give you my salary expectations at this point" while also asking "but what is the salary range for this position, given you don't know enough about me". Any thoughts on how to approach that?
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      Their range is independent of you so just dont worry about it.
    - xyzelement 3y ago
      // Any thoughts on how to approach that? This may sound quaint but I find that being forthcoming and asking the question you have works. During the latest job search, I would just ask for a range and say myself that "obviously where I fall in the range depends on my candidacy, I won't hold you to it." If they tell you the range is something like $120K to $150K, it tells you what kind of seniority they are looking for - whether they know it or not - and how much they value people of that profile. If they tell you it's like $150K to $750K - then you know they are really wide open to range of experience and impact. Someone may say that a $600K wide range is meaningless but I don't think it is. If you're more junior you can count on being towards the left but still know they can afford to give you a bit more if they like you, and if you're very senior you can recognize that they have room for someone like you and have an appetite to pay. You'd be totally self-unaware to go into the process hoping for $750 and then landing at $150 but that's more on you. So I am fine asking for a broad range - it's way more meaningful than no range.

hydroid7 3y ago

You refuse to do any unpaid "interview project" jobs. I'm not doing any "test projects" that are longer than 4h.

deprecative 3y ago
If they want my labor they can pay for it as far as I'm concerned. We all know it won't have anything to do with day to day responsibilities anyway.
ghaff 3y ago
"Portfolios" in some form are often necessary. (In my space, writing samples.) If you have those ready to go, easier for everyone! But if you don't have a relevant portfolio, you'll need to either put something together or I'll pass. (I'm not really looking for a specific assignment but just something that's representative of the type of work.)
- deckard1 3y ago
  why would a software dev have a portfolio? The comparison to design or writing doesn't make sense. A graphic designer can point to logos or marketing material that is publicly available. I'm not going to put proprietary code on a portfolio nor am I going to spend multiple years building some open source project when I already have a full time job. Software engineering must be the only profession where employment history means nothing. And yet... interviewers always want salary history to knock you down. If you don't care about the work I did in the past, then why do you care about how much I was given for that work?
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > why would a software dev have a portfolio? For the same reason artists do -- to show a potential employer what you're capable of and what your style is. Look at it from the employer's point of view -- they have very little to go on when judging ability. If you can provide examples of your work, then you're reducing their uncertainty and giving yourself an edge for the position. > I'm not going to put proprietary code on a portfolio nor am I going to spend multiple years building some open source project when I already have a full time job. You don't have to do either of those things. Your portfolio doesn't have to include large, complex projects. A collection of smaller ones will do nicely. Or, even easier, is what I do: I just bring in the code for the most recent hobby project that I've completed. > interviewers always want salary history to knock you down You don't need to provide that history. At least, I never do. When I'm asked, I respond with what my salary expectation is, not what my salary history is.

asynchronous 3y ago

This exactly. Had way too many companies waste my time before revealing a 20-30% increase from my current comp was too much.

throitallaway 3y ago
If I understand things correctly, current comp shouldn't be part of the equation or talks as far as your recruiter and company that you're interviewing with are concerned. The position will have a comp range. That is not related to what you may be currently earning.
- RhodesianHunter 3y ago
  That's not the point. The point is that most people wouldn't leave their current role without a bump, so if they'd known that up front they wouldn't have bothered with the interview.

azemetre 3y ago

If it's a well known company, I've found sites like levels [1] to be very informative and accurate. Otherwise I always just ask in the initial calls, no reason to beat around the bush. If you know what you want, you can ask what the salary range is and decide if it's worth it from there. [1] https://levels.fyi/ https://levels.fyi/

JohnFen 3y ago
I ask in the initial calls even when I already know what the answer is. Sometimes, there's a discrepancy between the two that can be a clue that you should look more closely to see if the company is a straight-shooter or not.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

treprinum 3y ago

They will tell you what you want to hear and still low-ball you at the very end to try the sunk cost fallacy on you.

lolinder 3y ago
You'll still be glad you asked up front, because that kind of BS tells you something about the company. Sure you wasted your time in the interviews, but you now know not to push back on their initial offer because you don't want to work for a company that'd pull that on you.
xyzelement 3y ago
The sunk cost goes both ways. The company has likewise spent a lot of time and effort interviewing you and if they are extending you an offer and you say no, the process starts over for them. Especially if you have a job already, when they want to hire you is when you have the maximum leverage.
- treprinum 3y ago
  That's only when most of the interviews aren't automated via codility and similar atrocities. If they built or contracted a process that is scalable, interviewing you will cost them like $5 and almost no time outside maybe the final call with your future boss whereas you'll waste a lot of time.

nonethewiser 3y ago

One way or another, you DO disclose some expectations in that scenario.

kqr 3y ago

I've had some success by saying a ridiculously high number, and then quickly adding that "This is what it would take for me to accept an offer on the spot. As I learn more about the role and team and how well this would fit me, I expect that number to go down significantly." Once they've responded to that I ask something along the lines of "By the way, what's the budgeted range for this role?" or "are you forbidden from sharing the range for this role" or something along those lines. For some reason, recruiters seem more willing to share the range after I've anchored high – perhaps because they get insecure about whether they've misjudged my qualifications.