15 ms·

Growing scientific interest in vagus nerve stimulation

274 points by acallaghan 3y ago

jmount 3y ago
I thought all the Hacker News "smarter than everyone else, self prescribers" were still endorsing Adderall, mild hallucinogens, and poop-swapping. But, by all means, shine on you crazy diamonds.
- InSteady 3y ago
  Is your comment intended to mock people who are interested in the vagus nerve, people who are interested in self-advocacy in the case of health problems, or just everyone on hacker news in general? Gotta specify, I'm not sure who I'm supposed to be looking down on here.
harvie 3y ago
So you are basicaly telling me than scientists found out that i can get some more alertness by slaping myself in the face?
caycep 3y ago
Vagus nerve shenanigans always remind me of that whole NSA hack of side loading their custom hackey OS into things like embedded USB controllers or other little things on laptops that we never think about. Yea, it's not as flashy as interfacing w/ the CPU/system RAM directly but it could be useful....
bjourne 3y ago
My dad has had deep brain stimulation (not the same as vagnus nerve stimulation, but in the same area) for over ten years. It helps a lot with his dystonia but he has developed severe paranoia which gets progressively worse. Of course you can't say that one caused the other, but I think it is reasonable to be cautious about devices that put electricity in your brain. Benefits are often instant side-effects may slowly accumulate over the years.
fruit2020 3y ago
Does anyone here suffer from vasovagal syncope and has researched the topic more in depth? My last blackout was around one minute during a flight, house doctor says I shouldn’t be concerned.
pedalpete 3y ago
Does anyone here have experience with any of the consumer stimulation devices like neuvana or sensate? Keen to hear your thoughts and if you actually use it?
c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
I was a diagnosed with gastritis earlier this year. In the days leading up to my endoscopy, I had horrific reflux which was triggering anxiety. Putting an icepack on my chest to cool down the vagus nerve really helped with the angst and heart palpitations.
progrus 3y ago
This place is such a shithole in 2023. Absolutely no interest in anything of import, because that reality banging down your doors is too scary. We’re in a revolution, nerds. Wake the fuck up.
- doktrin 3y ago
  You should consider the possibility that you're the one with a one-finger grasp on reality.
  - progrus 3y ago
    No U
mgarfias 3y ago
Mine is very angry. It has caused me to die a few times.
photochemsyn 3y ago
The article and comments don't mention it, but vagus stimulation by hot peppers (maybe wasabi too) has been studied and seems significant with respect to immune-nervous system interactions controlled by the vagus nerve, at least there's some interaction (wishful thinking perhaps, but as I like hot peppers this supports my view that they improve one's digestion and circulation): (2013) "Capsaicin-sensitive vagal afferent neurons contribute to the detection of pathogenic bacterial colonization in the gut" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4188534/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4188534/ > "We conclude that activation of the afferent arm of the parasympathetic neuroimmune reflex by pathogenic bacteria in the gut is dependent on capsaicin sensitive vagal afferent neurons and that the release of inflammatory mediators into intestinal tissue can be directly sensed by these neurons." More general current open-source review of the overall topic (2018): "Vagus Nerve as Modulator of the Brain–Gut Axis in Psychiatric and Inflammatory Disorders" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.00044/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.0004...
01100011 3y ago
I'm all for folks expounding on the ways in which "current AI" sucks, but I have little patience for people who think that what it is now is all it will ever be. Sure, it could be 6 months or 6 years before we see real improvements, but no one knows. No one knew that transformers were coming in the months before they arrived. One thing that I think is encouraging is how fast computing power is increasing, along with languages, frameworks and models which allow you to make use of that power. I think that alone, even without AI, will result in world-changing advancements across many fields. The power to simulate large systems is growing rapidly and will enable prediction and discovery to achieve great societal benefits.
tempaway43355 3y ago
One of my children has severe epilepsy and has a Vagus Nerve Stimulation device implanted - Sentiva 1000 https://www.livanova.com/epilepsy-vnstherapy/en-gb/hcp/products/sentiva https://www.livanova.com/epilepsy-vnstherapy/en-gb/hcp/produ... It has really helped although obviously it took surgery and then also nine months of slowly tweaking the settings. Before the VNS they could (for example) not go on a trampoline for more than a few minutes without having a seizure, but now they're fine all day. They did still have seizures at night after the VNS but we tackled those with a different treatment. The Sentiva 1000 sends regular soft pulses (for one minute every 3.5 minutes) and can also react to heart rate rising suddenly (which might mean a seizure) by automatically increasing its pulses. During a seizure if we want to manually activate the device we swipe over its location with a strong magnet and that activates it to send stronger pulses for a minute or so. Batteries last about eight years. A few times a year we go to check the battery, the nurses have an ipad and a wand-type thing that they hold over the implants location, it uses some sort of low power NFC to read data and diagnostics from the implant. When we do need to change the battery that will be an operation. But less complicated than the initial operation (and even that was in-and-out in one day) All pretty amazing.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Here's a silly question: does your child feel the nerve stimulation when it happens?
  - tempaway43355 3y ago
    Thats a good question not a silly one. They don't have the communication skills to tell me but they dont seem to be aware of it. Apparently some people experience it as a tingling sensation in throat or neck.
- adversaryIdiot 3y ago
  i wonder why the battery cant be charged wirelessly
  - tempaway43355 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
theshrike79 3y ago
I have acid reflux and possibly a mild hiatal hernia. When it triggers in Just The Right Way, I also get severe panic attack symptoms. When I started investigating it (my coping mechanism during panic attacks) I discovered that the vagus nerve travels next to the esophagus through the diaphragm. So my complete layman explanation was that the stomach pushes through the diaphragm during a hiatal hernia -> it rubs against the vagus nerve -> panic attack symptoms. I might need to add the study of vagus nerve to "why haven't we studied this about the human body more" -list along with gut bacteria composition.
- kyleyeats 3y ago
  I'm not a doctor or anything but you're describing gallstones and gallbladder attacks here. Regular panic attacks will reveal an emotional pattern. Gallbladder attacks usually happen after you eat a big, high-fat meal and won't have an associated emotional trigger. It'll feel like a Tai Chi master is doing the Two Finger Death Touch on the right side of your diaphragm, but aside from that feels just like a panic attack.
- albntomat0 3y ago
  I'm in a very similar situation as you with EoE, acid reflux, and a confirmed mild hiatal hernia. The anxiety seems to line up as well. Have you found any additional solutions, past the standard PPI and diet for acid reflux? Thanks!
  - blue_dragon 3y ago
    Hijacking your comment to share my story and ask for advice. I have diagnosed EoE, I've had it for my whole life. I'm currently on 80mg omeprazole daily and an elimination diet. This helps a lot but is not a cure. I've also experienced benign heart palpitations for my whole life (confirmed by a cardiologist). For a long time, I've had a hunch that the two were connected. On days when I have EoE flare-ups, I feel some pain and swelling in my esophagus, as though I have a bad chest cold. Food and liquids tend to linger in my esophagus for longer. Another unusual side effect is that, on days when my EoE flares up, I tend to experience frequent heart palpitations, most commonly right after consuming food or water. Since the vagus nerve travels through the chest, adjacent to both the heart and the esophagus, I think the mechanism of action is this: the inflammation in my esophagus stimulates the vagus nerve, making a palpitation more likely. This inflammation also causes food and liquid to travel through the esophagus more slowly, which stimulates the vagus nerve further. The combined stimulus from inflammation and food or liquid can irritate the vagus nerve enough to cause heart palpitations. Obviously I would like to cure both my EoE and palpitations, as they're currently the two biggest detriments to my quality of life. And inflammation due to an overactive immune system is the cause of EoE. So the possibility of reducing immune system inflammation just by stimulating the vagus nerve is very appealing to me. If anyone reading this has an experience, opinion, research, suggestion, or anything they'd like to share, I'd love to hear it. I'm going to experiment with baking soda and famotidine to reduce inflammation, since I read in the above threads that either of those could work. But if there's some simple hack I can employ to reduce my symptoms (meditation/breathing technique, physical exercise, a stimulation device I can buy, some additional OTC medication I can take, etc), I love to hear it.
jwestbury 3y ago
Nerve stimulation implants are really exciting. I have sleep apnea, and while I take to CPAP therapy pretty well, I hate having to travel with the device and I hate its limitations. When we travel, I have to ensure there's an outlet somewhere near my bed; I can't camp without a massive battery pack for my CPAP; I can't go backpacking; and even cuddling my wife at night is a challenge because of the hose hanging off my head. There's now a sleep apnea implant available, which also functions based on nerve stimulation, and is apparently quite effective. It's still a bit large, so not ideal for those of us who can deal with a CPAP, but in another 10 years maybe I can stop using my CPAP and just get a relatively straightforward surgical procedure every 5-10 years. I'd absolutely do it.
- Bloating 3y ago
  Check eBay for medistrom batteries. I can get 1 night for AirSense 10 (w/o humidity); 2 nights using resmed portable cpap & no issues backpacking with the portable cpap so long as I can get a periodic recharge.
- matthewpick 3y ago
  Depending on how severe your sleep apnea is, there are oral appliances that can help with mild to moderate cases of sleep apnea. Could be an alternative to a CPAP machine. It’s like wearing a bulky retainer at night. That said, you’ll want to go to a dentist who specializes in sleep apnea and is able to test / fit the oral appliance properly. (Source: father is dentist who specializes in TMJ pain and sleep apnea).
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    I've heard they're about $3,500USD and aren't covered by insurance. For something that I'm unsure would solve the problem, it seems a bit much. If it were 1/10th the price, I would just try it. Seems like the 3d scanning my kids had for their braces, plus 3D printing could make it less expensive, at least for a prototype device to just try. I should try that "tape over the mouth" thing to see if it helps, particularly as I'm super mild apnea, but I'm expecting it won't really work with my beard.
Jamesdorsey 3y ago
[flagged]
fidotron 3y ago
What made me start paying attention to the vagus nerve noise was this: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200806092437.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200806092437.h... This claims to improve language learning through selective non invasive stimulation. The great confusion with these things is given how the body has a tendency to recalibrate dynamically to new stable levels of stimulation the trick would be finding what sort of on/off routine is needed to create the desired effect.
voisin 3y ago
> Further research revealed that the brain communicates with the spleen – an organ that plays a critical role in the immune system – by sending electrical signals down the vagus nerve. These trigger the release of a chemical called acetylcholine that tells immune cells to switch off inflammation. Isn’t inflammation an important process for healing? Too much is obviously bad, but if we go turning it off, won’t that lead to longer term issues? Shouldn’t we be looking to solve what’s causing the inflammation in the first place?
- sterlingcooley 3y ago
  Great point, but VNS is not considered to be immuno-suppresant, it's immuno-modulatory. So Vagus Nerve signals going to spleen really allows the body to more properly regulate inflammation.
- mindsuck 3y ago
  I'm not a doctor so I won't pretend I understand how these treatments work but: > Tracey immediately recognised the therapeutic implications, having spent years trying to develop better treatments for inflammatory conditions such as sepsis, arthritis and Crohn’s disease. Existing drugs dampen inflammation, but carry a risk of serious side effects. Here was a technique with the potential to switch off inflammation without the need for drugs. I don't think anyone wants to switch off inflammation for everyone, all the time or as treatment for everything, but there's treatments where it's desired.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    sepsis isn't an "inflammatory condition". It's a death sentence if it isn't dealt with promptly. Lumping that in with arthritis renders this meaningless.
    - InSteady 3y ago
      Sepsis occurs when inflammations goes from being localized to being spread throughout your entire body. The bacterial infection is obviously the root of the problem, but it's the inflammation that actually kills. Being able to turn off that severe systemic inflammation might buy doctors precious hours or even days to successfully treat the infection before the patient's critical organ system shut down for good. As laypeople, should probably take a beat before saying statements made by experts and medical researchers are "meaningless." From google: >Sepsis is a highly inflammatory disorder with the presence of organ dysfunction in severe cases and mostly caused by bacterial infection (Bone et al., 1989).
yamrzou 3y ago
The vagus nerve can also be stimulated by diaphragmatic breathing exercises and longer exhalations, see [1] and [2]. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/201705/diaphragmatic-breathing-exercises-and-your-vagus-nerve https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/2... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/201905/longer-exhalations-are-easy-way-hack-your-vagus-nerve https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/2....
- jossclimb 3y ago
  I feel down this rabbit hole after reading Breath by James Nestor. Got serious about practising 5.5 second inhales / exhales and started forcing myself to adjust to nose breathing (even during exercise) It did a total number on my anxiety levels and pulled me out of the constant cortisol fuelled fight or flight mode I found myself as I slowly crashed and burned into the ground I wish someone had taught me as a child, it would have made a marked difference on my life, I am sure of it.
  - baby 3y ago
    Post the technique here so lazy people like me can read about it!
    - talldrinkofwhat 3y ago
      I think they're talking about box breathing:https://www.healthline.com/health/box-breathing https://www.healthline.com/health/box-breathing 4s:Full breath in 4s:Hold 4s:Full breath out 4s:Hold* *this one seems the least natural to me as you're just sitting there, at the bottom of an invisible pool, wasting away.
      - baby 3y ago
        Interestingly Huberman talks about double breath in, then long breath out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc
bgribble 3y ago
I have this dream scenario where they discover that the gentle swirling of a cotton swab in the ear canal stimulates the vagus nerve and has these tremendous health benefits, allowing the sanctimonious anti-cotton-swab-in-the-ear brigade to sit down and shut up for a minute.
- oidar 3y ago
  Arnold’s nerve cough reflex: evidence for chronic cough as a sensory vagal neuropathy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222929/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- obelos 3y ago
  Make those anti-eargasm prudes take a back seat for a while!
buescher 3y ago
Off and on, I've been seeing woo about the vagus nerve for a while. This article was refreshingly balanced. Now I know: "Tracey’s discovery also caught the attention of mind-body practitioners, including the Dutch motivational speaker and “Iceman” Wim Hof". Aha. Indeed. Where is the rest of this stuff coming from? Is there a deeper dive?
- hnbad 3y ago
  Any mention of Wim Hof deserves a mention of the fact that the "Wim Hof Method" has a perfect verification mechanism: Wim Hof has a twin brother who does not practice the method and performs similarly well on most of the tests supposed to demonstrate the method's efficacy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773331 In other words: there's likely a genetic factor at play much like no amount of training will give you the genetic advantage Phelps has in terms of wing span and lung capacity: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/olympic-gold-good-genes https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/olympic-g...
  - esperent 3y ago
    > similarly well on most of the tests From your link they checked exactly one thing: shivering response to cold following breathing exercises. Both twins did exactly as well on this one test. That's not "most tests". It's one test. And personally, being able to withstand cold is the least interesting claimed benefit of breathing techniques.
    - swader999 3y ago
      Yes! And it's so easy to just try it and see for yourself. Laughable that anyone wouldn't just take ten minutes to see if it does anything.
dghughes 3y ago
Years ago I read that breathing on your vagus nerve on your wrist can help calm you down. Each breath pulse would do something cause stimulation to calm you more like a feedback loop. I didn't know if it was bunk or not. I tried it but never felt any effect.
BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
[flagged]
- wruza 3y ago
  What a strange agitation in your comment. Melanin absorbtion spectrum is easy to search for and the data shows that its interaction with EM spectrum below UV and visible light (freq-wise) is basically zero. Radio frequencies at “home” energies don’t interact with us, so you can take the tinfoil hat off ;). Things change when you stand right in front of an industrial microwave antenna, but only there and that has nothing to do with pigments.
  - BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
    []
    - tempaway43355 3y ago
      Your question makes no sense in the context of epilepsy. I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about
    - RankingMember 3y ago
      You're getting downvoted because what you're saying doesn't make any logical sense, not because of any "taboos".
samjohnation111 3y ago
[flagged]
robg 3y ago
The automatic feedback loop between heart and lungs is really cool. The more you slow your breathing the more you slow your heart. You are choosing to breathe slower via your vagus nerve. The heart responds accordingly. By contrast the adrenal cortex, a little brain on top of the kidneys, automatically triggers fight or flight with threat detection. By the time you realize it your heart rate is already increasing. Breathing slowly, preferably through your nose, counteracts that physiological stress. See also the last 100 years of research on the autonomic nervous system.
thenerdhead 3y ago
You don't need to buy a $750 USD device to do this either. You can get away with a very cheap TENS device that has ear clips such as: https://www.tenspros.com/intensity-micro-combo-tens-microcurrent-di9698.html https://www.tenspros.com/intensity-micro-combo-tens-microcur... And then look at a study like https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199464/table/T2/?report=objectonly https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199464/table/T... to determine what settings to use for your condition.
- QuantumGood 3y ago
  Easier to read version of the study summaries: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ibnJr6MqhHfpkXXzsKODNiby7R5kmRjPcSIviaeDycY/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ibnJr6MqhHfpkXXzsKOD...
  - BizarroLand 3y ago
    Part of me is interested, part of me is horrified by the idea of DIY electroshock therapy.
    - thenerdhead 3y ago
      What exactly is DIY here? TENS devices are FDA approved and these are well known settings / protocols for different conditions.
      - BizarroLand 3y ago
        DIY is "Do It Yourself" as in, not having trained professionals do it for you, therefore, the whole thing is DIY. Sure, maybe less DIY than making a pickaxe out of stone and mining the raw metals to build a tens device from actual scratch, but doing it to yourself is doing it yourself.
        thenerdhead 3y ago
        Yes you should absolutely talk to your doctor or an expert before doing it. But that doesn't make it "DIY". I was just pointing out that you don't have to buy a startup's expensive device to get the same functionality.
jbandela1 3y ago
> One thing that makes the vagus nerves so attractive is surgical accessibility in the neck. “It is quite easy to implant some device that will try to stimulate them,” says Dr Benjamin Metcalfe at the University of Bath, who is studying how the body responds to electrical vagus nerve stimulation. Did these (with supervision) during residency. As far as neurosurgeries go, fairly simple. You just have to be careful when you expose the vagus nerve as it lies between the carotid artery and the jugular vein. This is in contrast to Deep Brain Stimulation which involves making a hole in the skull, exposing the brain, and inserting electrodes deep within the brain.
- Balgair 3y ago
  I did some work on DBS devices. Yeah, that's an intense surgery. The MD doing the implantation was a rockin' bitch-ass motherfucking stone cold killer. Sorry for all the curse words, but that's the best way to describe her. I've never been near someone so dead calm no matter what. Just ice in the veins. She was ~6'5" and wore 6" stilettos all the time. That surgeon had presence. I'd never want to meet her in a back alley late at night. We were developing a new technique to help out with implantation. One of the hard parts of DBS is knowing where to leave the stimulating end of the electrodes. You want to hit a specific region, but as everyone's brain is different, there's no way to stereotype the process. We had a little optical sensor that we were trying to use to guide the electrodes and see differences in the neuronal density. The place you leave the electrodes is in an area of relatively high density (S. Nigra). Bunch of Fourier analysis, machine learning, and machine vision went into it.
  - lr4444lr 3y ago
    ML for how to direct implantation, or the signals it produced?
    - Balgair 3y ago
      I was working on a guiding fiber optic cable, so the signals were live during implantation. The fiber is then pulled out once the electrodes are in the correct position. We used ML to help determine where the tip of the electrodes were in the brain. The received images needed a lot of processing (Fourier domain mostly), then ML against cadaver brains and other surgeries to help determine the position. Final say included a lot of test shocks to the patient and the surgeon's call.
jasonladuke0311 3y ago
Vagus nerve trauma is how liver shot KO's happen in striking arts. I always wondered how this worked. https://middleeasy.com/guides/dissecting-the-liver-shot/ https://middleeasy.com/guides/dissecting-the-liver-shot/
blueyes 3y ago
For me, the amazing thing about the Vagus nerve is that you can stimulate it with your breathing. And since the Vagus nerve affects the autonomic nervous system (involuntary, not consciously controlled) while breathing choices are conscious, this is one of the few ways that humans can directly impact important aspects of their psychology and physiology, like how calm they feel. Mindfulness + breath choices + vagus nerve => altered state. And that's why traditions including yoga and buddhism empathize breathing. Couple great books that touch on this are: Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art https://www.amazon.com/Breath-New-Science-Lost-Art/dp/0735213615/ref=asc_df_0735213615/ https://www.amazon.com/Breath-New-Science-Lost-Art/dp/073521... and Altered Traits: Science Reveals How Meditation Changes Your Brain https://www.amazon.com/Altered-Traits-Science-Reveals-Meditation-ebook/dp/B01N3BUE70/ https://www.amazon.com/Altered-Traits-Science-Reveals-Medita...
- buildsjets 3y ago
  A modern classic would be Holotropic Breathwork, developed by Stanislav Grof after the LSD based therapies he had been developing in the 1970s were made illegal. Yes, it sounds like hippie silliness. But it does have notable effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof https://www.amazon.com/Holotropic-Breathwork-Self-Exploration-Transpersonal-Humanistic/dp/1438433948 https://www.amazon.com/Holotropic-Breathwork-Self-Exploratio...
- adriand 3y ago
  This might go beyond how you feel and into direct biological impacts. I don’t listen to the Huberman Lab podcast much these days but I did listen to the episode with David Linden, which I found quite interesting. [1] At one point, they are discussing the mind/body axis and the latest scientific developments in exploring how mental states can affect the body. There is a fascinating although very untested - but, testable - hypothesis that meditation may be able to slow the growth of cancerous tumours. The mechanism here is via nerve endings that reach the tumour and their effect on immune responses at the site. Linden was emphatic about how science requires a mechanism of action, and that when people refer to this potential effect against cancer as due to “alignment of chakras” or whatever, it is “bullshit” to use his word. I get where he’s coming from, but on the flip side, the benefits of meditative practice were arrived at long before science took any note of them. In fact for many years, the scientific perspective on it was that it was entirely bullshit. Meanwhile the people who were (admittedly incorrectly) talking about chakras were delivering real benefits to their followers. As such it seems to me that more respect is warranted, and perhaps even more caution. What do you think? 1 https://hubermanlab.com/dr-david-linden-life-death-and-the-neuroscience-of-your-unique-experience/ https://hubermanlab.com/dr-david-linden-life-death-and-the-n...
dentalperson 3y ago
There is also 10+ years research for tinnitus using Vagus Nerve Stimulation to stop it [1]. Results seem mixed. Many other drugs/neuro-stimuli for T have gotten mixed results and passed clinical trials such as Leniere only to flop in actual usage. It's interesting that the community anecdotal evidence such as r/tinnitus and TinnitusTalk are so useful for these cases because they are more likely to report negative results at the post-approval stage. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7951891/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7951891/
- gizajob 3y ago
  I’ve got tinnitus and can’t really foresee any kind of solution. Not sure what the vagus nerve would do given the ears go straight in to the brain. Hopefully one day though, I’ve learned to live with it for the time being. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…
giantg2 3y ago
There are a whole bunch of vagus nerve manipulations in current medicine. Many are quite common to self treat for things like converting episodes of SVT. Although the effectiveness is mixed. If they could find a non-drug treatment for Afib, I bet that would be big money based on the potential population and the current drug cocktail side effects.
crtxcr 3y ago
>Further research revealed that the brain communicates with the spleen – an organ that plays a critical role in the immune system – by sending electrical signals down the vagus nerve. These trigger the release of a chemical called acetylcholine that tells immune cells to switch off inflammation. Electrically stimulating the vagus nerve with an implanted device achieved the same feat. One might also achieve comparable effects by drinking baking soda. >"We think the cholinergic (acetylcholine) signals that we know mediate this anti-inflammatory response aren't coming directly from the vagal nerve innervating the spleen, but from the mesothelial cells that form these connections to the spleen," O'Connor says. >While there is no known direct connection between the vagal nerve and the spleen -- and O'Connor and his team looked again for one -- the treatment also attenuates inflammation and disease severity in rheumatoid arthritis, researchers at the Feinstein Institute for Medical Research reported in 2016 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. O'Connor hopes drinking baking soda can one day produce similar results for people with autoimmune disease. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180425093745.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180425093745.h...
- miek 3y ago
  Wow the baking soda thing is really interesting! You should add as a submission on HN. Thanks for sharing :)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

274 points by acallaghan 3y ago

I thought all the Hacker News "smarter than everyone else, self prescribers" were still endorsing Adderall, mild hallucinogens, and poop-swapping. But, by all means, shine on you crazy diamonds.

InSteady 3y ago
Is your comment intended to mock people who are interested in the vagus nerve, people who are interested in self-advocacy in the case of health problems, or just everyone on hacker news in general? Gotta specify, I'm not sure who I'm supposed to be looking down on here.

harvie 3y ago

So you are basicaly telling me than scientists found out that i can get some more alertness by slaping myself in the face?

caycep 3y ago

Vagus nerve shenanigans always remind me of that whole NSA hack of side loading their custom hackey OS into things like embedded USB controllers or other little things on laptops that we never think about. Yea, it's not as flashy as interfacing w/ the CPU/system RAM directly but it could be useful....

bjourne 3y ago

My dad has had deep brain stimulation (not the same as vagnus nerve stimulation, but in the same area) for over ten years. It helps a lot with his dystonia but he has developed severe paranoia which gets progressively worse. Of course you can't say that one caused the other, but I think it is reasonable to be cautious about devices that put electricity in your brain. Benefits are often instant side-effects may slowly accumulate over the years.

fruit2020 3y ago

Does anyone here suffer from vasovagal syncope and has researched the topic more in depth? My last blackout was around one minute during a flight, house doctor says I shouldn’t be concerned.

pedalpete 3y ago

Does anyone here have experience with any of the consumer stimulation devices like neuvana or sensate? Keen to hear your thoughts and if you actually use it?

c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago

I was a diagnosed with gastritis earlier this year. In the days leading up to my endoscopy, I had horrific reflux which was triggering anxiety. Putting an icepack on my chest to cool down the vagus nerve really helped with the angst and heart palpitations.

progrus 3y ago

This place is such a shithole in 2023. Absolutely no interest in anything of import, because that reality banging down your doors is too scary. We’re in a revolution, nerds. Wake the fuck up.

doktrin 3y ago
You should consider the possibility that you're the one with a one-finger grasp on reality.
- progrus 3y ago
  No U

mgarfias 3y ago

Mine is very angry. It has caused me to die a few times.

photochemsyn 3y ago

The article and comments don't mention it, but vagus stimulation by hot peppers (maybe wasabi too) has been studied and seems significant with respect to immune-nervous system interactions controlled by the vagus nerve, at least there's some interaction (wishful thinking perhaps, but as I like hot peppers this supports my view that they improve one's digestion and circulation): (2013) "Capsaicin-sensitive vagal afferent neurons contribute to the detection of pathogenic bacterial colonization in the gut" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4188534/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4188534/ > "We conclude that activation of the afferent arm of the parasympathetic neuroimmune reflex by pathogenic bacteria in the gut is dependent on capsaicin sensitive vagal afferent neurons and that the release of inflammatory mediators into intestinal tissue can be directly sensed by these neurons." More general current open-source review of the overall topic (2018): "Vagus Nerve as Modulator of the Brain–Gut Axis in Psychiatric and Inflammatory Disorders" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.00044/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.0004...

01100011 3y ago

I'm all for folks expounding on the ways in which "current AI" sucks, but I have little patience for people who think that what it is now is all it will ever be. Sure, it could be 6 months or 6 years before we see real improvements, but no one knows. No one knew that transformers were coming in the months before they arrived. One thing that I think is encouraging is how fast computing power is increasing, along with languages, frameworks and models which allow you to make use of that power. I think that alone, even without AI, will result in world-changing advancements across many fields. The power to simulate large systems is growing rapidly and will enable prediction and discovery to achieve great societal benefits.

tempaway43355 3y ago

One of my children has severe epilepsy and has a Vagus Nerve Stimulation device implanted - Sentiva 1000 https://www.livanova.com/epilepsy-vnstherapy/en-gb/hcp/products/sentiva https://www.livanova.com/epilepsy-vnstherapy/en-gb/hcp/produ... It has really helped although obviously it took surgery and then also nine months of slowly tweaking the settings. Before the VNS they could (for example) not go on a trampoline for more than a few minutes without having a seizure, but now they're fine all day. They did still have seizures at night after the VNS but we tackled those with a different treatment. The Sentiva 1000 sends regular soft pulses (for one minute every 3.5 minutes) and can also react to heart rate rising suddenly (which might mean a seizure) by automatically increasing its pulses. During a seizure if we want to manually activate the device we swipe over its location with a strong magnet and that activates it to send stronger pulses for a minute or so. Batteries last about eight years. A few times a year we go to check the battery, the nurses have an ipad and a wand-type thing that they hold over the implants location, it uses some sort of low power NFC to read data and diagnostics from the implant. When we do need to change the battery that will be an operation. But less complicated than the initial operation (and even that was in-and-out in one day) All pretty amazing.

karaterobot 3y ago
Here's a silly question: does your child feel the nerve stimulation when it happens?
- tempaway43355 3y ago
  Thats a good question not a silly one. They don't have the communication skills to tell me but they dont seem to be aware of it. Apparently some people experience it as a tingling sensation in throat or neck.
adversaryIdiot 3y ago
i wonder why the battery cant be charged wirelessly
- tempaway43355 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

theshrike79 3y ago

I have acid reflux and possibly a mild hiatal hernia. When it triggers in Just The Right Way, I also get severe panic attack symptoms. When I started investigating it (my coping mechanism during panic attacks) I discovered that the vagus nerve travels next to the esophagus through the diaphragm. So my complete layman explanation was that the stomach pushes through the diaphragm during a hiatal hernia -> it rubs against the vagus nerve -> panic attack symptoms. I might need to add the study of vagus nerve to "why haven't we studied this about the human body more" -list along with gut bacteria composition.

kyleyeats 3y ago
I'm not a doctor or anything but you're describing gallstones and gallbladder attacks here. Regular panic attacks will reveal an emotional pattern. Gallbladder attacks usually happen after you eat a big, high-fat meal and won't have an associated emotional trigger. It'll feel like a Tai Chi master is doing the Two Finger Death Touch on the right side of your diaphragm, but aside from that feels just like a panic attack.
albntomat0 3y ago
I'm in a very similar situation as you with EoE, acid reflux, and a confirmed mild hiatal hernia. The anxiety seems to line up as well. Have you found any additional solutions, past the standard PPI and diet for acid reflux? Thanks!
- blue_dragon 3y ago
  Hijacking your comment to share my story and ask for advice. I have diagnosed EoE, I've had it for my whole life. I'm currently on 80mg omeprazole daily and an elimination diet. This helps a lot but is not a cure. I've also experienced benign heart palpitations for my whole life (confirmed by a cardiologist). For a long time, I've had a hunch that the two were connected. On days when I have EoE flare-ups, I feel some pain and swelling in my esophagus, as though I have a bad chest cold. Food and liquids tend to linger in my esophagus for longer. Another unusual side effect is that, on days when my EoE flares up, I tend to experience frequent heart palpitations, most commonly right after consuming food or water. Since the vagus nerve travels through the chest, adjacent to both the heart and the esophagus, I think the mechanism of action is this: the inflammation in my esophagus stimulates the vagus nerve, making a palpitation more likely. This inflammation also causes food and liquid to travel through the esophagus more slowly, which stimulates the vagus nerve further. The combined stimulus from inflammation and food or liquid can irritate the vagus nerve enough to cause heart palpitations. Obviously I would like to cure both my EoE and palpitations, as they're currently the two biggest detriments to my quality of life. And inflammation due to an overactive immune system is the cause of EoE. So the possibility of reducing immune system inflammation just by stimulating the vagus nerve is very appealing to me. If anyone reading this has an experience, opinion, research, suggestion, or anything they'd like to share, I'd love to hear it. I'm going to experiment with baking soda and famotidine to reduce inflammation, since I read in the above threads that either of those could work. But if there's some simple hack I can employ to reduce my symptoms (meditation/breathing technique, physical exercise, a stimulation device I can buy, some additional OTC medication I can take, etc), I love to hear it.

jwestbury 3y ago

Nerve stimulation implants are really exciting. I have sleep apnea, and while I take to CPAP therapy pretty well, I hate having to travel with the device and I hate its limitations. When we travel, I have to ensure there's an outlet somewhere near my bed; I can't camp without a massive battery pack for my CPAP; I can't go backpacking; and even cuddling my wife at night is a challenge because of the hose hanging off my head. There's now a sleep apnea implant available, which also functions based on nerve stimulation, and is apparently quite effective. It's still a bit large, so not ideal for those of us who can deal with a CPAP, but in another 10 years maybe I can stop using my CPAP and just get a relatively straightforward surgical procedure every 5-10 years. I'd absolutely do it.

Bloating 3y ago
Check eBay for medistrom batteries. I can get 1 night for AirSense 10 (w/o humidity); 2 nights using resmed portable cpap & no issues backpacking with the portable cpap so long as I can get a periodic recharge.
matthewpick 3y ago
Depending on how severe your sleep apnea is, there are oral appliances that can help with mild to moderate cases of sleep apnea. Could be an alternative to a CPAP machine. It’s like wearing a bulky retainer at night. That said, you’ll want to go to a dentist who specializes in sleep apnea and is able to test / fit the oral appliance properly. (Source: father is dentist who specializes in TMJ pain and sleep apnea).
- linsomniac 3y ago
  I've heard they're about $3,500USD and aren't covered by insurance. For something that I'm unsure would solve the problem, it seems a bit much. If it were 1/10th the price, I would just try it. Seems like the 3d scanning my kids had for their braces, plus 3D printing could make it less expensive, at least for a prototype device to just try. I should try that "tape over the mouth" thing to see if it helps, particularly as I'm super mild apnea, but I'm expecting it won't really work with my beard.

Jamesdorsey 3y ago

[flagged]

fidotron 3y ago

What made me start paying attention to the vagus nerve noise was this: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200806092437.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200806092437.h... This claims to improve language learning through selective non invasive stimulation. The great confusion with these things is given how the body has a tendency to recalibrate dynamically to new stable levels of stimulation the trick would be finding what sort of on/off routine is needed to create the desired effect.

voisin 3y ago

sterlingcooley 3y ago
Great point, but VNS is not considered to be immuno-suppresant, it's immuno-modulatory. So Vagus Nerve signals going to spleen really allows the body to more properly regulate inflammation.
mindsuck 3y ago
I'm not a doctor so I won't pretend I understand how these treatments work but: > Tracey immediately recognised the therapeutic implications, having spent years trying to develop better treatments for inflammatory conditions such as sepsis, arthritis and Crohn’s disease. Existing drugs dampen inflammation, but carry a risk of serious side effects. Here was a technique with the potential to switch off inflammation without the need for drugs. I don't think anyone wants to switch off inflammation for everyone, all the time or as treatment for everything, but there's treatments where it's desired.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  sepsis isn't an "inflammatory condition". It's a death sentence if it isn't dealt with promptly. Lumping that in with arthritis renders this meaningless.
  - InSteady 3y ago
    Sepsis occurs when inflammations goes from being localized to being spread throughout your entire body. The bacterial infection is obviously the root of the problem, but it's the inflammation that actually kills. Being able to turn off that severe systemic inflammation might buy doctors precious hours or even days to successfully treat the infection before the patient's critical organ system shut down for good. As laypeople, should probably take a beat before saying statements made by experts and medical researchers are "meaningless." From google: >Sepsis is a highly inflammatory disorder with the presence of organ dysfunction in severe cases and mostly caused by bacterial infection (Bone et al., 1989).

yamrzou 3y ago

The vagus nerve can also be stimulated by diaphragmatic breathing exercises and longer exhalations, see [1] and [2]. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/201705/diaphragmatic-breathing-exercises-and-your-vagus-nerve https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/2... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/201905/longer-exhalations-are-easy-way-hack-your-vagus-nerve https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-athletes-way/2....

jossclimb 3y ago
I feel down this rabbit hole after reading Breath by James Nestor. Got serious about practising 5.5 second inhales / exhales and started forcing myself to adjust to nose breathing (even during exercise) It did a total number on my anxiety levels and pulled me out of the constant cortisol fuelled fight or flight mode I found myself as I slowly crashed and burned into the ground I wish someone had taught me as a child, it would have made a marked difference on my life, I am sure of it.
- baby 3y ago
  Post the technique here so lazy people like me can read about it!
  - talldrinkofwhat 3y ago
    I think they're talking about box breathing:https://www.healthline.com/health/box-breathing https://www.healthline.com/health/box-breathing 4s:Full breath in 4s:Hold 4s:Full breath out 4s:Hold* *this one seems the least natural to me as you're just sitting there, at the bottom of an invisible pool, wasting away.
    - baby 3y ago
      Interestingly Huberman talks about double breath in, then long breath out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc

bgribble 3y ago

I have this dream scenario where they discover that the gentle swirling of a cotton swab in the ear canal stimulates the vagus nerve and has these tremendous health benefits, allowing the sanctimonious anti-cotton-swab-in-the-ear brigade to sit down and shut up for a minute.

oidar 3y ago
Arnold’s nerve cough reflex: evidence for chronic cough as a sensory vagal neuropathy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222929/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4222929/
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
obelos 3y ago
Make those anti-eargasm prudes take a back seat for a while!

buescher 3y ago

Off and on, I've been seeing woo about the vagus nerve for a while. This article was refreshingly balanced. Now I know: "Tracey’s discovery also caught the attention of mind-body practitioners, including the Dutch motivational speaker and “Iceman” Wim Hof". Aha. Indeed. Where is the rest of this stuff coming from? Is there a deeper dive?

hnbad 3y ago
Any mention of Wim Hof deserves a mention of the fact that the "Wim Hof Method" has a perfect verification mechanism: Wim Hof has a twin brother who does not practice the method and performs similarly well on most of the tests supposed to demonstrate the method's efficacy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773331 In other words: there's likely a genetic factor at play much like no amount of training will give you the genetic advantage Phelps has in terms of wing span and lung capacity: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/olympic-gold-good-genes https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/olympic-g...
- esperent 3y ago
  > similarly well on most of the tests From your link they checked exactly one thing: shivering response to cold following breathing exercises. Both twins did exactly as well on this one test. That's not "most tests". It's one test. And personally, being able to withstand cold is the least interesting claimed benefit of breathing techniques.
  - swader999 3y ago
    Yes! And it's so easy to just try it and see for yourself. Laughable that anyone wouldn't just take ten minutes to see if it does anything.

dghughes 3y ago

Years ago I read that breathing on your vagus nerve on your wrist can help calm you down. Each breath pulse would do something cause stimulation to calm you more like a feedback loop. I didn't know if it was bunk or not. I tried it but never felt any effect.

BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago

[flagged]

wruza 3y ago
What a strange agitation in your comment. Melanin absorbtion spectrum is easy to search for and the data shows that its interaction with EM spectrum below UV and visible light (freq-wise) is basically zero. Radio frequencies at “home” energies don’t interact with us, so you can take the tinfoil hat off ;). Things change when you stand right in front of an industrial microwave antenna, but only there and that has nothing to do with pigments.
- BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
  []
  - tempaway43355 3y ago
    Your question makes no sense in the context of epilepsy. I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about
  - RankingMember 3y ago
    You're getting downvoted because what you're saying doesn't make any logical sense, not because of any "taboos".

samjohnation111 3y ago

[flagged]

robg 3y ago

The automatic feedback loop between heart and lungs is really cool. The more you slow your breathing the more you slow your heart. You are choosing to breathe slower via your vagus nerve. The heart responds accordingly. By contrast the adrenal cortex, a little brain on top of the kidneys, automatically triggers fight or flight with threat detection. By the time you realize it your heart rate is already increasing. Breathing slowly, preferably through your nose, counteracts that physiological stress. See also the last 100 years of research on the autonomic nervous system.

thenerdhead 3y ago

You don't need to buy a $750 USD device to do this either. You can get away with a very cheap TENS device that has ear clips such as: https://www.tenspros.com/intensity-micro-combo-tens-microcurrent-di9698.html https://www.tenspros.com/intensity-micro-combo-tens-microcur... And then look at a study like https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199464/table/T2/?report=objectonly https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199464/table/T... to determine what settings to use for your condition.

QuantumGood 3y ago
Easier to read version of the study summaries: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ibnJr6MqhHfpkXXzsKODNiby7R5kmRjPcSIviaeDycY/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ibnJr6MqhHfpkXXzsKOD...
- BizarroLand 3y ago
  Part of me is interested, part of me is horrified by the idea of DIY electroshock therapy.
  - thenerdhead 3y ago
    What exactly is DIY here? TENS devices are FDA approved and these are well known settings / protocols for different conditions.
    - BizarroLand 3y ago
      DIY is "Do It Yourself" as in, not having trained professionals do it for you, therefore, the whole thing is DIY. Sure, maybe less DIY than making a pickaxe out of stone and mining the raw metals to build a tens device from actual scratch, but doing it to yourself is doing it yourself.
      - thenerdhead 3y ago
        Yes you should absolutely talk to your doctor or an expert before doing it. But that doesn't make it "DIY". I was just pointing out that you don't have to buy a startup's expensive device to get the same functionality.

jbandela1 3y ago

> One thing that makes the vagus nerves so attractive is surgical accessibility in the neck. “It is quite easy to implant some device that will try to stimulate them,” says Dr Benjamin Metcalfe at the University of Bath, who is studying how the body responds to electrical vagus nerve stimulation. Did these (with supervision) during residency. As far as neurosurgeries go, fairly simple. You just have to be careful when you expose the vagus nerve as it lies between the carotid artery and the jugular vein. This is in contrast to Deep Brain Stimulation which involves making a hole in the skull, exposing the brain, and inserting electrodes deep within the brain.

Balgair 3y ago
I did some work on DBS devices. Yeah, that's an intense surgery. The MD doing the implantation was a rockin' bitch-ass motherfucking stone cold killer. Sorry for all the curse words, but that's the best way to describe her. I've never been near someone so dead calm no matter what. Just ice in the veins. She was ~6'5" and wore 6" stilettos all the time. That surgeon had presence. I'd never want to meet her in a back alley late at night. We were developing a new technique to help out with implantation. One of the hard parts of DBS is knowing where to leave the stimulating end of the electrodes. You want to hit a specific region, but as everyone's brain is different, there's no way to stereotype the process. We had a little optical sensor that we were trying to use to guide the electrodes and see differences in the neuronal density. The place you leave the electrodes is in an area of relatively high density (S. Nigra). Bunch of Fourier analysis, machine learning, and machine vision went into it.
- lr4444lr 3y ago
  ML for how to direct implantation, or the signals it produced?
  - Balgair 3y ago
    I was working on a guiding fiber optic cable, so the signals were live during implantation. The fiber is then pulled out once the electrodes are in the correct position. We used ML to help determine where the tip of the electrodes were in the brain. The received images needed a lot of processing (Fourier domain mostly), then ML against cadaver brains and other surgeries to help determine the position. Final say included a lot of test shocks to the patient and the surgeon's call.

jasonladuke0311 3y ago

Vagus nerve trauma is how liver shot KO's happen in striking arts. I always wondered how this worked. https://middleeasy.com/guides/dissecting-the-liver-shot/ https://middleeasy.com/guides/dissecting-the-liver-shot/

blueyes 3y ago

For me, the amazing thing about the Vagus nerve is that you can stimulate it with your breathing. And since the Vagus nerve affects the autonomic nervous system (involuntary, not consciously controlled) while breathing choices are conscious, this is one of the few ways that humans can directly impact important aspects of their psychology and physiology, like how calm they feel. Mindfulness + breath choices + vagus nerve => altered state. And that's why traditions including yoga and buddhism empathize breathing. Couple great books that touch on this are: Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art https://www.amazon.com/Breath-New-Science-Lost-Art/dp/0735213615/ref=asc_df_0735213615/ https://www.amazon.com/Breath-New-Science-Lost-Art/dp/073521... and Altered Traits: Science Reveals How Meditation Changes Your Brain https://www.amazon.com/Altered-Traits-Science-Reveals-Meditation-ebook/dp/B01N3BUE70/ https://www.amazon.com/Altered-Traits-Science-Reveals-Medita...

buildsjets 3y ago
A modern classic would be Holotropic Breathwork, developed by Stanislav Grof after the LSD based therapies he had been developing in the 1970s were made illegal. Yes, it sounds like hippie silliness. But it does have notable effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof https://www.amazon.com/Holotropic-Breathwork-Self-Exploration-Transpersonal-Humanistic/dp/1438433948 https://www.amazon.com/Holotropic-Breathwork-Self-Exploratio...
adriand 3y ago
This might go beyond how you feel and into direct biological impacts. I don’t listen to the Huberman Lab podcast much these days but I did listen to the episode with David Linden, which I found quite interesting. [1] At one point, they are discussing the mind/body axis and the latest scientific developments in exploring how mental states can affect the body. There is a fascinating although very untested - but, testable - hypothesis that meditation may be able to slow the growth of cancerous tumours. The mechanism here is via nerve endings that reach the tumour and their effect on immune responses at the site. Linden was emphatic about how science requires a mechanism of action, and that when people refer to this potential effect against cancer as due to “alignment of chakras” or whatever, it is “bullshit” to use his word. I get where he’s coming from, but on the flip side, the benefits of meditative practice were arrived at long before science took any note of them. In fact for many years, the scientific perspective on it was that it was entirely bullshit. Meanwhile the people who were (admittedly incorrectly) talking about chakras were delivering real benefits to their followers. As such it seems to me that more respect is warranted, and perhaps even more caution. What do you think? 1 https://hubermanlab.com/dr-david-linden-life-death-and-the-neuroscience-of-your-unique-experience/ https://hubermanlab.com/dr-david-linden-life-death-and-the-n...

dentalperson 3y ago

There is also 10+ years research for tinnitus using Vagus Nerve Stimulation to stop it [1]. Results seem mixed. Many other drugs/neuro-stimuli for T have gotten mixed results and passed clinical trials such as Leniere only to flop in actual usage. It's interesting that the community anecdotal evidence such as r/tinnitus and TinnitusTalk are so useful for these cases because they are more likely to report negative results at the post-approval stage. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7951891/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7951891/

gizajob 3y ago
I’ve got tinnitus and can’t really foresee any kind of solution. Not sure what the vagus nerve would do given the ears go straight in to the brain. Hopefully one day though, I’ve learned to live with it for the time being. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…

giantg2 3y ago

There are a whole bunch of vagus nerve manipulations in current medicine. Many are quite common to self treat for things like converting episodes of SVT. Although the effectiveness is mixed. If they could find a non-drug treatment for Afib, I bet that would be big money based on the potential population and the current drug cocktail side effects.

crtxcr 3y ago

>Further research revealed that the brain communicates with the spleen – an organ that plays a critical role in the immune system – by sending electrical signals down the vagus nerve. These trigger the release of a chemical called acetylcholine that tells immune cells to switch off inflammation. Electrically stimulating the vagus nerve with an implanted device achieved the same feat. One might also achieve comparable effects by drinking baking soda. >"We think the cholinergic (acetylcholine) signals that we know mediate this anti-inflammatory response aren't coming directly from the vagal nerve innervating the spleen, but from the mesothelial cells that form these connections to the spleen," O'Connor says. >While there is no known direct connection between the vagal nerve and the spleen -- and O'Connor and his team looked again for one -- the treatment also attenuates inflammation and disease severity in rheumatoid arthritis, researchers at the Feinstein Institute for Medical Research reported in 2016 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. O'Connor hopes drinking baking soda can one day produce similar results for people with autoimmune disease. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180425093745.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180425093745.h...

miek 3y ago
Wow the baking soda thing is really interesting! You should add as a submission on HN. Thanks for sharing :)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]