4 ms·

> These two points alone, strengthened by many others, have led me to conclude that the world is MUCH better off with AI and that tech companies are ruining the

by tivert 3y ago

> These two points alone, strengthened by many others, have led me to conclude that the world is MUCH better off with AI and that tech companies are ruining the world with their abominations. Do you mean "world is MUCH better off without AI." What you wrote doesn't make much sense withing the context of your comment, but I have to ask because there are some software engineers that find abominations appealing for some reason, or just lack the ability to tell the difference between desirable technology and a technological abomination. I think a big component of the latter is many software engineers' overconfidence in their abilities that makes them easy marks, and the willingness of many kinds of hype men to exploit that to con them with propaganda.

HenryBemis 3y ago
I am not a software engineer. When (for my work) I/we need a decent chunk of development done, we get the pros. BUT, sometimes I want something that will automate the fudge out of my PC (imagine command prompt on overdrive). I usually DDG for the solution and end up in some 10yo solution in StackExchange, which doesn't do the thing. My friends have all forgotten their DOS skills.. so I turn to ChatGPT and boom! I get me 2 paragraphs script in 30secs. Do I hire devs? Hell yeah and we pay well, and we will continue to do so for many years. Do I use ChatGPT for the small (personal) stuff? Hell yeah too. Now, if a company wants to outsource everything to an LLM/AI then I wish them the best of luck, coz when something will break (and oh IT WILL), Tthe contractor they screwed over should charge them x50!!!!
- ceroxylon 3y ago
  Definitely agree, LLMs are only as useful as the person interpreting and implementing the output; if someone doesn't have enough knowledge or context about the thing they are trying to solve/create then copy & pasting blindly while asking the wrong questions will lead projects to disaster. I have witnessed this firsthand when I dove into the deep end on something over my head, GPT-4 Code Interpreter went into an error loop and I had to learn all of the background knowledge I was foolishly trying to avoid.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  For software devs AI will mostly be a golden goose because they can leverage it to full extend to increase their portfolio of solutions they can sell. > Tthe contractor they screwed over should charge them x50!!!! IT already does this after they were outsourced. They build up IT companies that take at least 3 times as much for consultation and you still need to employ local IT that actually implements the solutions. And their wage also doubled as well.
firebirdn99 3y ago
There has to be UBI for A(G)I. Period.
- nelsonic 3y ago
  The math doesn’t work for UBI at scale. Unless there’s a 99% tax on the 1%. And how likely is that?
  - dleeftink 3y ago
    What doesn't work about the math? There are many alternate taxation schemes and strategies that can be tried, such as increasing VAT on certain products, adjusting tax brackets to income changes, higher capital gains taxes on investments, and making tax evasion more difficult.
    - zarzavat 3y ago
      Don’t you think if it were possible for governments to gain multiples more tax revenue, they would do it already? Taxes are competitive. If you have extremely high taxes, then the businesses that can move out will move out, leaving a smaller tax base and requiring you to raise taxes even more in a death spiral.
      - dleeftink 3y ago
        Possibly, but depending on the level of budgetary entrenchment it would prove difficult for some governments. In any case, a staged roll-out is more likely to succeed, with many hurdles along the way. It's worth repeating that doing nothing increases overall societal costs if large parts of the population become unemployed, whether due to lower statewide income taxes, increased welfare costs, people resorting to grey collar work, and other secondary effects from increased displacement (lower consumer spending, rentals sitting empty, health epidemics, increased crime, etc.). UBI does not have to be a blanket instrument either: rather than income, we can focus on making certain goods and services universally available, such as access to food surpluses that would otherwise be overturned or basic internet access to enable people to remain connected without expensive contracts. A solution may even exist beyond taxation: making reschooling and job pivoting more accepted within industry, lowering admission costs to tertiary education, or guaranteeing placement of employees when let go on account of automation or cost-cutting. What way the pendulum will swing remains to be seen.
vouaobrasil 3y ago
Yes, of course, I meant without AI.

by tivert 3y ago

HenryBemis 3y ago

I am not a software engineer. When (for my work) I/we need a decent chunk of development done, we get the pros. BUT, sometimes I want something that will automate the fudge out of my PC (imagine command prompt on overdrive). I usually DDG for the solution and end up in some 10yo solution in StackExchange, which doesn't do the thing. My friends have all forgotten their DOS skills.. so I turn to ChatGPT and boom! I get me 2 paragraphs script in 30secs. Do I hire devs? Hell yeah and we pay well, and we will continue to do so for many years. Do I use ChatGPT for the small (personal) stuff? Hell yeah too. Now, if a company wants to outsource everything to an LLM/AI then I wish them the best of luck, coz when something will break (and oh IT WILL), Tthe contractor they screwed over should charge them x50!!!!

ceroxylon 3y ago
Definitely agree, LLMs are only as useful as the person interpreting and implementing the output; if someone doesn't have enough knowledge or context about the thing they are trying to solve/create then copy & pasting blindly while asking the wrong questions will lead projects to disaster. I have witnessed this firsthand when I dove into the deep end on something over my head, GPT-4 Code Interpreter went into an error loop and I had to learn all of the background knowledge I was foolishly trying to avoid.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
For software devs AI will mostly be a golden goose because they can leverage it to full extend to increase their portfolio of solutions they can sell. > Tthe contractor they screwed over should charge them x50!!!! IT already does this after they were outsourced. They build up IT companies that take at least 3 times as much for consultation and you still need to employ local IT that actually implements the solutions. And their wage also doubled as well.

firebirdn99 3y ago

There has to be UBI for A(G)I. Period.

nelsonic 3y ago
The math doesn’t work for UBI at scale. Unless there’s a 99% tax on the 1%. And how likely is that?
- dleeftink 3y ago
  What doesn't work about the math? There are many alternate taxation schemes and strategies that can be tried, such as increasing VAT on certain products, adjusting tax brackets to income changes, higher capital gains taxes on investments, and making tax evasion more difficult.
  - zarzavat 3y ago
    Don’t you think if it were possible for governments to gain multiples more tax revenue, they would do it already? Taxes are competitive. If you have extremely high taxes, then the businesses that can move out will move out, leaving a smaller tax base and requiring you to raise taxes even more in a death spiral.
    - dleeftink 3y ago
      Possibly, but depending on the level of budgetary entrenchment it would prove difficult for some governments. In any case, a staged roll-out is more likely to succeed, with many hurdles along the way. It's worth repeating that doing nothing increases overall societal costs if large parts of the population become unemployed, whether due to lower statewide income taxes, increased welfare costs, people resorting to grey collar work, and other secondary effects from increased displacement (lower consumer spending, rentals sitting empty, health epidemics, increased crime, etc.). UBI does not have to be a blanket instrument either: rather than income, we can focus on making certain goods and services universally available, such as access to food surpluses that would otherwise be overturned or basic internet access to enable people to remain connected without expensive contracts. A solution may even exist beyond taxation: making reschooling and job pivoting more accepted within industry, lowering admission costs to tertiary education, or guaranteeing placement of employees when let go on account of automation or cost-cutting. What way the pendulum will swing remains to be seen.

vouaobrasil 3y ago

Yes, of course, I meant without AI.