5 ms·

Hacked records corroborate claims in hydroxychloroquine wrongful death lawsuit

drcongo 3y ago
> “How many other people are there out there that have gone through this? That have lost their husband, or their wife, or daughter, or mother? They really pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes.” Did they? Surely most people who aren't prone to conspiracy nonsense just thought they were a bunch of nutters? The rest of the world did.
- elp 3y ago
  Most people sure. But mid-covid a lot of otherwise sane very intelligent people (cough coworkers *cough) fell for this rubbish. Probably a side effect of the isolation and getting fed echo chamber nonsense 8 hours plus a day. You could even forgive this if it was just the times, but scum like "Front line Doctors" and Steve Kirsch actively and knowingly pumped the misinformation to sell snake oil. This is the absolute least they deserve
  - drcongo 3y ago
    Judging by my downvotes I think there's a few on here that fell for it too. The only people I ever saw talking about hydroxychloroquine here in the UK were the "chemtrails" crowd, and they were falling for every scam going.
    - photodegradable 3y ago
      [dead]
    - zabzonk 3y ago
      i was in hospital in the UK at the height of the epidemic (for other reasons) and nobody ever suggested any treatment except immunisation.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        Here in the US, nurses were pretty prone to believing in snake oil for covid. They're the same people who have always been prone to MLMs so....
        Obscurity4340 3y ago
        Should be Medical Lies and Manipulations
        zabzonk 3y ago
        at least in the uk, nurses don't prescribe
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        Nurses don't have to be able to legally prescribe to give you off the record advice and seem like "medically aware" people to those around them. So many people take Nurses as medical gospel even though plenty of nurses don't really take their teachings as ground truth, and they aren't exactly taking immunology anyway, with very little foundational knowledge in a Nursing degree program in terms of how medicine works, as well as less rigorous statistics than your average high schooler. What they do learn is how all your bones and muscles and organs work and work together, and a bunch of microbio (so they would understand things like how sodium and potassium affect muscle function), and introductory classes on human psychology, and classes about how drugs interact. Notable things nurses in this program don't learn that are relevant to COVID: Immunology, so nurses should be expected to know roughly as much as the average person about how your immune system works, and how diseases spread, and how they evolve, genetics, how to write (and read) scientific papers, enough statistics to understand what might be problematic in a scientific paper, accounting (so many myths came from or through nurses that "hospitals are counting covid deaths wrong for money", while they could never seem to explain how that worked). Nursing is not pre-med.
        zabzonk 3y ago
        > Nurses don't have to be able to legally prescribe to give you off the record advice and seem like "medically aware" people to those around them sure, the can do that, and get sacked for malpractice while they are at it.
    - NikkiA 3y ago
      There's a disturbing amount of conspiracy mindedness on HN, pretty much always has been.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    People have a really hard time with "there is no treatment for helping you right now, go home and rest". That happens to every kind of sickness, at every segment of society.
talldatethrow 3y ago
I don't understand how this is going to work. Millions of people worldwide have taken billions of doses of this drug. Even during peak covid, in Europe and Asian, 100s of millions of doses were being donated to potentially help. And now this person is suing because what?
- zabzonk 3y ago
  i doubt that this case specifically will get anywhere (ianal, ianad) but certainly prescribing drugs to treat non-existent symptoms should have some come-back. hippocratic oath and all that?
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  Millions of people take Tylenol safely, do you think that gives just anyone impunity to prescribe it for just anything, even unsafely, when their motive comes from profit, culture war, or conspiracy exploitation?
- badlucklottery 3y ago
  > And now this person is suing because what? It sounds like this doctor in particular was running a pill mill catering to the conspiracy crowd. I suppose we'll find out what role America’s Frontline Doctors played in all of this soon enough.
- micahflee 3y ago
  Hydroxychloroquine has dangerous side effects for people with heart abnormalities, and shouldn't be prescribed without first determining if it's safe. The FDA warned about this in 2020, and also warned doctors to not prescribe it for COVID-19 since it's shown to be ineffective at treating it: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-c... The doctor never should have prescribed hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 because it was ineffective and the medical community already knew it at the time, and if they were going to they should have done a physical exam or taken labs to determine if it was safe first, and they didn't.
- 3y ago
darkclouds 3y ago
https://archive.is/WBBgO https://archive.is/WBBgO There's lots of drugs/chemicals which have this narrow therapeutic index, nickel is one which is why its not recognised as a supplement and the US refuse to give it a RDA, yet it penetrates the skin and activates epithelial cells, producing cytokines or chemokines, fluoride release nickel from orthodontics causing nickel ions to appear in saliva creating an antibacterial effect by impairing the mitochondria membrane potential which generates lots of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS). And you'll find loads of nickel in vegetables and tobacco. The doctor and pharmacy software should have flagged up all drugs in this narrow therapeutic index for extra caution or temporary withdrawal from use during lockdown and remote consultations. I've seen no evidence of this temporary withdrawal of drugs taking place anywhere in the world, unless the drug shortage seen with Brexit & EU imports was pre-emptive preparation? Here in the UK its the pharmacy software which usually flags up the medicines that contradict with existing (repeat) prescriptions, because even NHS doctors prescribe multiple drugs that contradict, but that only works if you go to the same pharmacy. So I think the family might have an angle of attack in court with it being a drug/chemical with narrow therapeutic index and should have had a physical examination before prescription. "Hydroxychloroquine has a narrow therapeutic index, meaning there is little difference between toxic and therapeutic doses." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine#Adverse_eff...
mrguyorama 3y ago
Remember, "alternative medicine" is about your """liberty""", and totally not about selling you sugar pills for markups that even the pharma industry thinks is obscene. Look Look at this """study""" we did where giving people anti-parasite meds made them more likely to survive covid! Don't pay attention to the fact that half the patients in this """study""" had parasites, because impoverished country, and parasites are known to leave your body struggling to fight infection, and that removing said parasites would absolutely leave you more likely to survive anything else, and that as a citizen of the United States, who has benefited from at least a hundred years of listening to, and funding infectious disease experts and using their advice to run public healthy programs, you most likely have no parasites in you......

> “How many other people are there out there that have gone through this? That have lost their husband, or their wife, or daughter, or mother? They really pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes.” Did they? Surely most people who aren't prone to conspiracy nonsense just thought they were a bunch of nutters? The rest of the world did.

elp 3y ago
Most people sure. But mid-covid a lot of otherwise sane very intelligent people (cough coworkers *cough) fell for this rubbish. Probably a side effect of the isolation and getting fed echo chamber nonsense 8 hours plus a day. You could even forgive this if it was just the times, but scum like "Front line Doctors" and Steve Kirsch actively and knowingly pumped the misinformation to sell snake oil. This is the absolute least they deserve
- drcongo 3y ago
  Judging by my downvotes I think there's a few on here that fell for it too. The only people I ever saw talking about hydroxychloroquine here in the UK were the "chemtrails" crowd, and they were falling for every scam going.
  - photodegradable 3y ago
    [dead]
  - zabzonk 3y ago
    i was in hospital in the UK at the height of the epidemic (for other reasons) and nobody ever suggested any treatment except immunisation.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Here in the US, nurses were pretty prone to believing in snake oil for covid. They're the same people who have always been prone to MLMs so....
      - Obscurity4340 3y ago
        Should be Medical Lies and Manipulations
      - zabzonk 3y ago
        at least in the uk, nurses don't prescribe
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        Nurses don't have to be able to legally prescribe to give you off the record advice and seem like "medically aware" people to those around them. So many people take Nurses as medical gospel even though plenty of nurses don't really take their teachings as ground truth, and they aren't exactly taking immunology anyway, with very little foundational knowledge in a Nursing degree program in terms of how medicine works, as well as less rigorous statistics than your average high schooler. What they do learn is how all your bones and muscles and organs work and work together, and a bunch of microbio (so they would understand things like how sodium and potassium affect muscle function), and introductory classes on human psychology, and classes about how drugs interact. Notable things nurses in this program don't learn that are relevant to COVID: Immunology, so nurses should be expected to know roughly as much as the average person about how your immune system works, and how diseases spread, and how they evolve, genetics, how to write (and read) scientific papers, enough statistics to understand what might be problematic in a scientific paper, accounting (so many myths came from or through nurses that "hospitals are counting covid deaths wrong for money", while they could never seem to explain how that worked). Nursing is not pre-med.
        zabzonk 3y ago
        > Nurses don't have to be able to legally prescribe to give you off the record advice and seem like "medically aware" people to those around them sure, the can do that, and get sacked for malpractice while they are at it.
  - NikkiA 3y ago
    There's a disturbing amount of conspiracy mindedness on HN, pretty much always has been.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  People have a really hard time with "there is no treatment for helping you right now, go home and rest". That happens to every kind of sickness, at every segment of society.

talldatethrow 3y ago

I don't understand how this is going to work. Millions of people worldwide have taken billions of doses of this drug. Even during peak covid, in Europe and Asian, 100s of millions of doses were being donated to potentially help. And now this person is suing because what?

zabzonk 3y ago
i doubt that this case specifically will get anywhere (ianal, ianad) but certainly prescribing drugs to treat non-existent symptoms should have some come-back. hippocratic oath and all that?
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Millions of people take Tylenol safely, do you think that gives just anyone impunity to prescribe it for just anything, even unsafely, when their motive comes from profit, culture war, or conspiracy exploitation?
badlucklottery 3y ago
> And now this person is suing because what? It sounds like this doctor in particular was running a pill mill catering to the conspiracy crowd. I suppose we'll find out what role America’s Frontline Doctors played in all of this soon enough.
micahflee 3y ago
Hydroxychloroquine has dangerous side effects for people with heart abnormalities, and shouldn't be prescribed without first determining if it's safe. The FDA warned about this in 2020, and also warned doctors to not prescribe it for COVID-19 since it's shown to be ineffective at treating it: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-c... The doctor never should have prescribed hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 because it was ineffective and the medical community already knew it at the time, and if they were going to they should have done a physical exam or taken labs to determine if it was safe first, and they didn't.
3y ago

darkclouds 3y ago

https://archive.is/WBBgO https://archive.is/WBBgO There's lots of drugs/chemicals which have this narrow therapeutic index, nickel is one which is why its not recognised as a supplement and the US refuse to give it a RDA, yet it penetrates the skin and activates epithelial cells, producing cytokines or chemokines, fluoride release nickel from orthodontics causing nickel ions to appear in saliva creating an antibacterial effect by impairing the mitochondria membrane potential which generates lots of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS). And you'll find loads of nickel in vegetables and tobacco. The doctor and pharmacy software should have flagged up all drugs in this narrow therapeutic index for extra caution or temporary withdrawal from use during lockdown and remote consultations. I've seen no evidence of this temporary withdrawal of drugs taking place anywhere in the world, unless the drug shortage seen with Brexit & EU imports was pre-emptive preparation? Here in the UK its the pharmacy software which usually flags up the medicines that contradict with existing (repeat) prescriptions, because even NHS doctors prescribe multiple drugs that contradict, but that only works if you go to the same pharmacy. So I think the family might have an angle of attack in court with it being a drug/chemical with narrow therapeutic index and should have had a physical examination before prescription. "Hydroxychloroquine has a narrow therapeutic index, meaning there is little difference between toxic and therapeutic doses." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine#Adverse_eff...

mrguyorama 3y ago

Remember, "alternative medicine" is about your """liberty""", and totally not about selling you sugar pills for markups that even the pharma industry thinks is obscene. Look Look at this """study""" we did where giving people anti-parasite meds made them more likely to survive covid! Don't pay attention to the fact that half the patients in this """study""" had parasites, because impoverished country, and parasites are known to leave your body struggling to fight infection, and that removing said parasites would absolutely leave you more likely to survive anything else, and that as a citizen of the United States, who has benefited from at least a hundred years of listening to, and funding infectious disease experts and using their advice to run public healthy programs, you most likely have no parasites in you......