4 ms·

Let's be real here, some people can't even do 10% let alone 90%. And than some people are severely mentally ill or addicted, not "slightly". I don't think GP i

by BbzzbB 3y ago

Let's be real here, some people can't even do 10% let alone 90%. And than some people are severely mentally ill or addicted, not "slightly". I don't think GP is saying they're not doing a good job, but that "ending homelessness" sounds like a euphemism.

silvestrov 3y ago
If you can "fix" 95% of people by providing housing, then handling the remaining 5% is much easier. These problems do not scale linearly. It is also surprising how much drug addicts and mentally ill can do when the basics has been taken care of.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  First, it may not be 95 and 5 percent. Second, thats not whats asserted by “Finland ends homelessness.” The assertion is that homelessness doesn’t exist there. So it seems like these cases are unaccounted for.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    I feel it’s like how employment statistics don’t include people not looking for work… if all the people who want housing get it, then homelessness has been eliminated. Someone who has a house but chooses not to live in it isn’t homeless.
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  I always encourage people who have this viewpoint to go and talk with your local homeless community. Bring some food and small bills with you as basically bribes and just talk with some folks. Ask them how they came to be homeless, what they do in their day, what they want to do. Give them your idea, ask them if they think it's a good idea.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  The 5% - 10% is the bulk of the problem. The other 90% are living in cars or couches but aren’t causing wide spread damage
ggm 3y ago
Full employment is 3% unemployed. In Finland if you want off the streets it will happen in tractable time.
jdietrich 3y ago
The key point is early intervention, particularly in adolescents and young adults. Severe mental illness doesn't suddenly emerge out of nowhere - there is an identifiable process through which people decline from "struggling" to "completely unable to function". We know that the longer mental health problems go untreated, the harder they are to treat. Likewise, the longer someone stays on the streets, the harder they become to re-integrate into society. Housing is only half the equation. For housing-first policies to work (and they can work very successfully), they need to be accompanied by comprehensive psychosocial support to address the issues that cause and perpetuate homelessness. That support is obviously expensive, but it works out much cheaper in the long run. America has an unusually severe homelessness problem. It is often presupposed that this problem is caused by factors which are unique to America and essentially intractable, which leads to proposed solutions like mass institutionalisation. I believe that this is fundamentally false; the key factor is a lack of political will to invest in the social infrastructure which prevents people from becoming homeless and prevents homelessness from becoming entrenched. This is ultimately a false economy, because the unavoidable costs of having a permanent dysfunctional underclass vastly outweigh the costs of proactively supporting people at the earliest opportunity. "Ending homelessness" in an absolute sense is a fantasy, but the vast majority of homelessness is avoidable.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > America has an unusually severe homelessness problem. Maybe. Over 580,000 Americans are experiencing homelessness. That is a rate of ~0.18%, if my calculations are correct (600k / 332m). Contrast to Sweden (population 10m) which had an estimated 33,000 homeless people in 2020, yielding a rate of 0.33%. [1] Contrast to Japan, which has an estimated effective homelessness rate of 0%. So Sweden has a worse homelessness rate than the US but we all suck compared to Japan and Finland! 1. https://www.homelessworldcup.org/sweden#:~:text=Country%20st https://www.homelessworldcup.org/sweden#:~:text=Country%20st....
  - dudeinjapan 3y ago
    Japan has homeless people. Not to the same degree as USA but they exist.
coldtea 3y ago
Let's be real here, if only those were the majority of the homeless in the US, and other such places. Instead, they are used as an excuse not to do anything for the homeless masses.

by BbzzbB 3y ago

silvestrov 3y ago

If you can "fix" 95% of people by providing housing, then handling the remaining 5% is much easier. These problems do not scale linearly. It is also surprising how much drug addicts and mentally ill can do when the basics has been taken care of.

nonethewiser 3y ago
First, it may not be 95 and 5 percent. Second, thats not whats asserted by “Finland ends homelessness.” The assertion is that homelessness doesn’t exist there. So it seems like these cases are unaccounted for.
- true_religion 3y ago
  I feel it’s like how employment statistics don’t include people not looking for work… if all the people who want housing get it, then homelessness has been eliminated. Someone who has a house but chooses not to live in it isn’t homeless.
vorpalhex 3y ago
I always encourage people who have this viewpoint to go and talk with your local homeless community. Bring some food and small bills with you as basically bribes and just talk with some folks. Ask them how they came to be homeless, what they do in their day, what they want to do. Give them your idea, ask them if they think it's a good idea.
throw9away6 3y ago
The 5% - 10% is the bulk of the problem. The other 90% are living in cars or couches but aren’t causing wide spread damage

ggm 3y ago

Full employment is 3% unemployed. In Finland if you want off the streets it will happen in tractable time.

jdietrich 3y ago

The key point is early intervention, particularly in adolescents and young adults. Severe mental illness doesn't suddenly emerge out of nowhere - there is an identifiable process through which people decline from "struggling" to "completely unable to function". We know that the longer mental health problems go untreated, the harder they are to treat. Likewise, the longer someone stays on the streets, the harder they become to re-integrate into society. Housing is only half the equation. For housing-first policies to work (and they can work very successfully), they need to be accompanied by comprehensive psychosocial support to address the issues that cause and perpetuate homelessness. That support is obviously expensive, but it works out much cheaper in the long run. America has an unusually severe homelessness problem. It is often presupposed that this problem is caused by factors which are unique to America and essentially intractable, which leads to proposed solutions like mass institutionalisation. I believe that this is fundamentally false; the key factor is a lack of political will to invest in the social infrastructure which prevents people from becoming homeless and prevents homelessness from becoming entrenched. This is ultimately a false economy, because the unavoidable costs of having a permanent dysfunctional underclass vastly outweigh the costs of proactively supporting people at the earliest opportunity. "Ending homelessness" in an absolute sense is a fantasy, but the vast majority of homelessness is avoidable.

andsoitis 3y ago
> America has an unusually severe homelessness problem. Maybe. Over 580,000 Americans are experiencing homelessness. That is a rate of ~0.18%, if my calculations are correct (600k / 332m). Contrast to Sweden (population 10m) which had an estimated 33,000 homeless people in 2020, yielding a rate of 0.33%. [1] Contrast to Japan, which has an estimated effective homelessness rate of 0%. So Sweden has a worse homelessness rate than the US but we all suck compared to Japan and Finland! 1. https://www.homelessworldcup.org/sweden#:~:text=Country%20st https://www.homelessworldcup.org/sweden#:~:text=Country%20st....
- dudeinjapan 3y ago
  Japan has homeless people. Not to the same degree as USA but they exist.

coldtea 3y ago

Let's be real here, if only those were the majority of the homeless in the US, and other such places. Instead, they are used as an excuse not to do anything for the homeless masses.