7 ms·

Tesla repossessed my car due to an extreme oversight on their end

• teekert 3y ago
  Imagine they’d have this Ford patent implemented and the car would have just impounded itself with no reason. This proves it’s going to happen, it already did.
  • fnordpiglet 3y ago
    The remote lockout is same same, but different. Its more like house arrest :-)
• orwin 3y ago
  Remote lockout is terrifying. I understand the need for 'security', but still.
  • phpisthebest 3y ago
    >>I understand the need for 'security', but still. not even for that... It is a common trope in modern times for companies to use "security" as a method to prevent ownership of a product, Apple does it, Tesla does it, Microsoft Does it, most companies use this excuse You can have security with out giving up ownership By ownership, i use that under the original term, that I the owner of product have the sole and exclusive control over the property.
    • nottorp 3y ago
      Forget malice, how about incompetence? In this case it was human error (or an antiquated payment system). But is the remote lockout bug free?
      • CogitoCogito 3y ago
        > But is the remote lockout bug free? Of course it isn’t. This is an example of a big in the system.
        • usea 3y ago
          As a system designed to give tesla control over your property, I think it worked correctly.
        • nottorp 3y ago
          This is a bug in the system alright, but do you think there are no software bugs?
      • SenAnder 3y ago
        Remote lockout under company control is malice. This malicious feature was then used incompetently.
• 762236 3y ago
  Tesla actually stole the car. It was the customer's legal property.
  • toddmorey 3y ago
    I agree. I’m glad they are contacting a lawyer. I’ll always buy electric cars now but I’ll never buy another Tesla. Love the powertrain, dislike the cheap car parts wrapped around it & hate the company that comes with it.
    • colmmacc 3y ago
      Same. I was an early Model S purchaser, and then got a second. I loved its zero emissions, responsiveness and safety rating, but Tesla's antics left me unlikely to ever be a customer again, and to be extremely skeptical for their long term success. Though I still hope for a major turnaround. Both my cars did come with quality issued; the seat controls didn't work on my first car, and a tail light was out on my second. This is at delivery. That seems crazy on a 100k car, but it honestly didn't bother me too much. My biggest motivation for buying an EV was to support and contribute to positive changes we need for the climate. It was galling to see Tesla buy a tranche of BitCoin, and felt like an absolute kick in the teeth. It made a complete mockery of the "zero emissions" aspirational tag. I realize that tag has never counted emissions created during production, but to pour money into an egregious emitter with negative social utility was bonkers. Over the years, it was very concerning to see the "Full Self Driving" and "Robotaxis" lines so consistently promoted in a way that seemed to be to be an outright scam. I'm not a lawyer, but as a consumer I can't comprehend how massive fines or prison sentences have not followed. But the real last straw was Tesla's woeful customer service. Everything is through a misanthropic app and when anything goes off-script, it becomes byzantine and kafkaesque. I had long long waits for replacement parts, but also a crazy situation where the Tesla team couldn't seem to process a payment from my insurer properly and then tried to hold my car hostage. I convinced the local service team to release my car so that I could drive it away when I showed them the paper trail, but resolving the situation so that Tesla did not think I owed them thousands of dollars took much longer. Twice I had to resort to physically going to a service center and politely refusing to leave until my issues had been sufficiently escalated and I had points of contacts who would respond to me. Every time I simply framed it as "This is a 100k car, and I think it's reasonable to expect to be able to talk to a person when things go wrong.". The Tesla staff were incredibly overworked, the lady dealing with insurance claims said she had 160 or so ongoing delayed customers. They were as helpful as they could be within the confines of the system, but it just seemed clear to me that Tesla's corporate policies were designed for a short-sighted kind of scale at the expense of customer trust. As I said though, I really hope they have a major turnaround.
• martin8412 3y ago
  This should result in a huge huge fine for theft of the car.
  • Gasp0de 3y ago
    Who should be fined, though? The repo company? Tesla (the company)? The employee who didn't cash the cheque?
    • sahkopoyta 3y ago
      Tesla (the company)
    • andromaton 3y ago
      Tesla
    • Y-bar 3y ago
      How about all of them jointly? They can then, after being fined, negotiate amongst themselves who bears exactly how much of the damages. Personally I consider Tesla the main culpable entity here.
    • CogitoCogito 3y ago
      The “employee” and “Tesla” are one and the same. I guess as long as the repo company followed its obligations (i.e. verified Tesla’s incorrect documents), all this should fall on Tesla.
    • otikik 3y ago
      Obviously Tesla the company. I don’t get what’s difficult about it.
    • loeg 3y ago
      Tesla. If they want to fire an employee over this, whatever, but at the end of the day the problem was internal to Tesla.
• gumballindie 3y ago
  I am sorry, but why do people still buy teslas?
  • phpisthebest 3y ago
    The current trend in BEV's show that most of the manufacturers are moving to the same systems of control and subject to the same problems. It is not a Telsa problem, it is a industry problem. We had to pass the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to prevent the Automotive companies from abusing customers in the 70's Looks like we will need to update that, through out history Automotive companies have been some of the most abusive companies to work for, to work with (as a vendor) and to buy from as a customer.
    • nottorp 3y ago
      Well with a Tesla you have to have remote control over the internet because they didn't have any money to put physical controls in :) I'm surprised there's even a steering wheel.
      • jandrese 3y ago
        Musk is trying his hardest to eliminate the steering wheel too. He has been promising that full self driving is just around the corner for half a decade now. The newest version (still in testing) basically threw away nearly all of the work and replaced it with an machine trained model, because we all know how easy it is to debug problems with ML models.
  • akmarinov 3y ago
    I don’t like Elon, but it’s the best value for money EV, period.
    • Swenrekcah 3y ago
      Exactly, it’s the perfect EV for the less affluent!
  • 3y ago
• izzydata 3y ago
  Proprietary software on wheels. No thank you. I'd rather buy a mostly mechanical machine.
  • minitoar 3y ago
    Which modern motor vehicles can you buy that fit that description?
    • xeromal 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70)
      • minitoar 3y ago
        Sure, but this is priced like a luxury vehicle and I think unless you live in Japan it must be imported.
    • izzydata 3y ago
      Embedded firmware to run individual components is one thing and a software running on CPU for your entire car is another. My random 2016 Subaru is like this. I haven't needed to update any firmware on my cars parts since buying it. It just works as it is mostly mechanical. For a Tesla they apparently get software updates all the time like it constantly needs bug fixes.
      • minitoar 3y ago
        That's true, that is a notable difference. But the presence of such firmware can still ruin your day in terms of repairability. Maybe you can't just replace that part because you need some special software to configure the firmware that you can only get if you're a certified mechanic.
  • elkos 3y ago
    Proprietary AND at least a while back violating the GPL? https://lwn.net/Articles/61292/ https://lwn.net/Articles/61292/
• grecy 3y ago
  [Playing devil's advocate] So Tesla did not accept the payment, and tried to contact the customer to sort it out. Customer did not reply to emails, or respond to phone calls. After some time, Tesla needs to get car back, so they do. Once payment has been made in full, car is returned. Obviously inconvenient and not ideal, but what should Tesla have done differently? They tried and could not contact the customer, for all they knew the person was deliberately trying to avoid them and keep the car without paying. Would you expect any company to behave differently if acceptable payment has not been made, and the customer does not respond to contact attempts?
  • nottorp 3y ago
    [Let's go on with the devil] [quote] He looked through his emails and noticed that he did in fact receive only two emails on July 27 and July 28, stating that we had not yet paid for the car and that the full cost of the vehicle is still at large. These emails went ignored as he believed them to be a phishing attempt because we had already PAID IN FULL at the dealership. He also believed that Tesla could not have made such a huge mistake like this. [/quote] Customer ignored Tesla communications attempts. Perhaps because he read on sites like HN that the entire internet is out to get you. Maybe we should share part of the guilt.
    • runesofdoom 3y ago
      Or maybe giant corporations failing to perform due diligence internally ought not be a cost that they get to impose on their customers without legal consequence.
  • Retric 3y ago
    This isn’t how it works. If you hand someone a check and they don’t cash it then that’s not your problem full stop. If an employee deposits the check into their personal account and disappears with the money, the customer isn’t liable they already paid by handing over a valid check. These people didn’t send them new money, they got people working at Tesla to properly deal with money they had been given months ago. Legally Tesla committed grand theft. PS: It’s an important distinction as people often want to get out of contracts, saying we didn’t deposit the check therefore the contract isn’t valid isn’t allowed.
• not_your_vase 3y ago
  No apology. No restitution. My father emailed them back saying he was glad the issue was resolved but was disappointed that there was no restitution offered, not even an apology. They then emailed back the equivalent of saying “well we did try to contact you about this.” Just yesterday there was a bit rant-y thread about people suck at their job horribly. This is such a perfect example. They mess it up badly, and suddenly somehow it's the customer's fault.
  • dingnuts 3y ago
    they didn't apologize because they're incredibly in the wrong legally and if they apologize they'll have admitted it OP is going to have a field day in court, I hope
    • sowbug 3y ago
      Crazy thought: if they'd apologized, maybe they wouldn't end up in court.
    • Tempest1981 3y ago
      They also could empathize, without admitting guilt.
• acidburnNSA 3y ago
  > I am redrafting the documents and title/lien to your name instead of [BANK]. I have attached documents. Once funds post I can then restore access to the vehicle and release title/lien to your name.” Hmm why exactly did the title have [BANK] on it instead of their name in the first place if they paid in full up front? I'm not sure I'd accept anything other than my name on a title after forking over that kind of cash.
  • phpisthebest 3y ago
    This is one part of the story I find odd... If I paid cash for a something, I am walking out with the Title, or the paperwork that the dealer/tesla filed the title paperwork in my name...
    • pseg134 3y ago
      I am not calling the poster a liar but there is more to this story that we are not being told. If his name wasn’t on the pink slip he never really owned it and he specifically doesn’t say if the bank’s name was on the pink slip. Horrible customer service regardless, but there is more to this story.
      • 93po 3y ago
        I agree. He said he paid both with cashiers check and credit card and so my assumption is that a bank temporarily holds ownership (and financial liability) while the credit card charge becomes fully settled. I assume there was some issue with the settlement of the credit card payment (likely not the posters fault) and so there appeared to be an owed balance. My guess is the OP did not in fact fully legally own the car at the time of towing. Which is further supported by him not having the title and financing having to change the name on the pending title This looks more like a bank’s fault than Tesla’s fault though of course Tesla has a responsibility for the banks it chooses to affiliate with
        • lapcat 3y ago
          This is incorrect. "Credit cards are only accepted for the initial order fee." The order fee is $250. https://www.tesla.com/support/ordering#payment https://www.tesla.com/support/ordering#payment Also, as the Reddit post says, "Cashiers check means the amount of money is withdrawn from the bank when it’s ISSUED not cashed." Thus, nothing remained to be settled. Everything was fully paid by the time the vehicle was delivered.
• xhkkffbf 3y ago
  > Financial controls?! They don't have any. Any Canadian I know who has placed a deposit for a Tesla product and then requested a refund for that deposit has received the deposit back, no questions, for the correct sum.... except in USD. My one buddy has done this three times, each time receiving back dollar for dollar his deposit, in USD. Great investment. They really should invest in some accountants.
  • graypegg 3y ago
    Source? Because, if that’s still true, I know what I’m doing this weekend. >:)
    • tehwebguy 3y ago
      Now see if you can make the deposit with a CC and get the refund as a check
    • xhkkffbf 3y ago
      It's one of the comments in the Reddit post.
• jvdvegt 3y ago
  Sounds like a country in need of a descent payment system :)
  • DennisP 3y ago
    Yes, one in which payments can be easily and quickly proven by any party.
• lolinder 3y ago
  The oddest thing to me is that they went months without noticing that they had $50k+ more than they expected to in their bank account. Not that it was their job to keep track of Tesla's financials (Tesla clearly screwed up badly), but with a purchase that large I'd be watching my bank account like a hawk until the check posted. Edit: oops, forgot how cashier's checks work.
  • Filligree 3y ago
    The Reddit post makes clear that they didn’t. They’d paid with a cashier’s check, which means the money was withdrawn when they wrote the check. Tesla then never cashed it. That’s on them.
    • newZWhoDis 3y ago
      If I made a $50k cashiers check and it goes months without being cashed I want a notification from my bank.
      • hugh-avherald 3y ago
        It's essentially cash. If you hand someone $50 you don't get a notification if it's not deposited.
        • newZWhoDis 3y ago
          It’s not though, it is a bank essentially holding my funds in escrow for payment to a specified party. If that payment is not executed I want to know.
          • lightbritefight 3y ago
            Cashiers checks are not traditional checks that only withdraw funds on deposit. A casihiers check debits the money from you account on issue. As soon as the bank gives you the check, the money is out of your account. A cashiers check cannot bounce for this reason. Its why it or a wore transfer are the required payment type for large purchases of this type.
• Lightbody 3y ago
  I'm one of the Tesla early adopters: 2013 Model S P85 and still driving it. These days, I go out of my way to tell people: DO NOT BUY TESLA. In the early days, service was wonderful. Over the years it steadily eroded. Now it's the worst customer experience I am forced to go through. Far worse than Comcast, various airlines, cell providers, county permits, etc. The only reason I still have this car is my desire to a) not be wasteful and b) find a non-Tesla 3 row electric SUV. This story is outrageous, but not at all surprising. The rudeness and disorganized nature of Telsa is deep in the company DNA. I have experienced it many times in recent years. Most recently, I arrived to pick up my car (after $4k of service!) at 8am, when their website said they opened. About 20 employees were there, playing corn hole and talking in a group. A dozen people walked by me with a cockeyed look and when I finally asked if I could be helped, they said: "oh we don't open until 8:30am, we hold daily team meetings at 8am now". I told them their website said otherwise and they should update it... I got a literal shrug. I just checked: the website still says they open at 8am. So even my polite attempt at helping them fix their website error went ignored. I can't even with this company.
  • demondemidi 3y ago
    I worked with a guy who was a super early adopter. I seem to recall him saying something like: his car notified him that it needed a repair on his phone and then a technician showed up in the parking lot and fixed it while he was at work, after he ok'd it. This was 2013 I think. I take it technicians don't just show up and do this anymore?
    • Lightbody 3y ago
      Yes. They would meet you at your home or work and work on it there or leave you with a nice loaner if they needed to take it. I haven't been offered a Tesla loaner in years when I take it into service. I don't even ask anymore. They also don't wash your car. After spending $4k on service and waiting for 30 minutes for them to "open", I was told to go out into the side parking lot to find my car (using the location feature in the app), which led me to the car being parked underneath a tree, collecting sap. I also then had to come back in because they still had my key. It's a shit show.
• neilv 3y ago
  > I shot an email back explaining AGAIN that this car had been paid for in full already and that we have been very dissatisfied by how Tesla had been handling this situation. Emailing that you are "very dissatisfied", after they locked you out of your very expensive car, erroneously and illegally repossessed your car in front of your boss, yelled at your father, and dug in their heels? Careful, your path of unhinged aggression might someday escalate as far as a sternly-worded letter! > we have been talking about getting an attorney or at least taking this to small claims court Attorney.
  • newZWhoDis 3y ago
    >Attorney “That’ll be $4500 up front for me to even look at this, billed $300/hour against that. Of which I will take 4 hours to “review your case” and another 2 hours to write a letter. Oh, you have no damages besides time/embarrassment? I won’t say that your chance of getting anything is basically 0%, at least not until I’ve spent all of that retainer deposit. Oh, you want to take them to court? That’ll be another $20k deposit please.”
    • raverbashing 3y ago
      Never take legal advice from the opposing party (or some random internet commenter for that matter) Pricing is between you and the attorney, and some will go on contingency for it
      • newZWhoDis 3y ago
        That wasn’t legal advice, it was “this is probably how this will go”, advice I sure wish some “random internet commenter” had given me before my last run through the legal system. Also, given the facts of the case as presented good effing luck getting a lawyer to “take it on contingency”. They only do that in the states if there’s potential for a six-figure payout
    • themodelplumber 3y ago
      Too true. Unfortunately it's the "therapy" of easy suggestions for consumer troubles. (And your great example doesn't even take into account that e.g. the letter they wrote is literally a free download they got from somebody's blog, and they left the example template's case details intact...)
• otikik 3y ago
  I really want an EV. But I want even more a vehicle that can’t be shut down, or even tracked, by its maker. Because then I would not own it. They would.
  • greyface- 3y ago
    Buy an e-GMP vehicle (Hyundai Ioniq 5/6, Kia EV6, or Genesis GV-60) and disable telematics from the hidden engineering menu. If you choose an EV6 and buy the car new in Massachusetts, this will already have been done for you, because Kia is throwing a tantrum over the state's right-to-repair law.
• lea900 3y ago
  [dead]
• canvascritic 3y ago
  Tesla, like many pioneers, began with a laser focus on product superiority and disruptive customer service. But as it grew, its focus seems to have shifted predominantly to scale, efficiency, and margins. Don't get me wrong; scaling is essential. But the danger lies in when companies forget what made them loved in the first place. The on-the-fly service appointments and tech-forward ownership experience is what differentiated Tesla, much more than just their battery technology. At the end of the day, it's a classic lesson in not forgetting your roots. A company can have the most cutting-edge technology, but if it can't maintain the human side of business, its reputation will eventually erode. Elon's always been about "first principles thinking," but sometimes, the first principles of business are just good old fashioned customer service, something a lot of tech companies just don't Believe in with this fixation on relentless optimization of everything
• bigtex 3y ago
  Remember Elon said that the best customer service is no customer service. Also Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world.
• kkfx 3y ago
  As an EU Citizen my action in that case would be simply going to the nearest police station filing a formal complaint for: - aggravated theft, due to the previous lock out of my vehicle; - commercial fraud; - slander. A copy of the complaint to my lawyer, and all media I know, stuffed with proof of payments. In the civil process following I'll ask for full refund for anything paid to them so far, legal expenses of course, compensation for slander and fraud, around 500.000€. Next time Tesla will learn the difference between cloud slaves and Citizens. I do not know much about the legal systems in the US, but I'm pretty sure the same path is very possible. The issue here is in the formal owner behavior, trying to explain instead of directly respond aggressively and politely to the substantial owner, witch as facts prove Tesla.
  • DennisP 3y ago
    That would be my impulse as well, but OP's paperwork said the bank owned the title, which would make the situation rather less clear to the police. OP should have set about resolving this immediately upon getting the title.
• lamontcg 3y ago
  > we have been talking about getting an attorney or at least taking this to small claims court I'm not sure what you'd go after them for, but the fun part of owning a Tesla is that you're only renting the software so you're going to be dealing with them in the future, and you're probably setting yourself up for future headaches and maybe just getting cut off at some point.
• inemesitaffia 3y ago
  It's RealTesla. Assume larping until otherwise confirmed