5 ms·

Sure. Apple is also giant and (probably?) fits those descriptors as well. Why is Mac so solid under similar circumstances?

nelsondev 3y ago
Apple employs “Release Managers”, where a single person is ultimately responsible for deciding which features ship in new projects. Apple also, due to the hardware business, adheres to a release schedule where features must all be consolidated onto single branches (“convergence”), rather than letting individual teams ship incrementally.
- roneythomas6 3y ago
  Not to mention Apple only has to support a limited number of hardware and they regularly drop support for older hardware with each new major release.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    That may be so, but all the annoyances I have with windows don't seem hardware-support related. The laggy menus, the clock in the taskbar that slides to the right outside of view, etc. This can't possibly be related to the fact I have a shiny, brand-new Wi-Fi card.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >the clock in the taskbar that slides to the right outside of view, etc. What? I've never seen the taskbar clock ever move.
      - vladvasiliu 3y ago
        How this usually happens is that there's a notification indication. I'd click on the clock to show the notification center, dismiss the notification, and the clock would slide "too much" to the right, so that almost half of it is outside the screen. A quick google search doesn't bring my issue up (I'll try to take a screenshot next time it happens, but I'm usually too annoyed of having to use windows to think about it). But it did bring up a separate issue, where the right-hand side icons area (system tray?) and the clock are moved down so that only the top of the date is showing. I've never had that one. I think these are lag-related, as in things move when something opens. But if the thing before didn't complete or something, the new thing happening doesn't get to remove the old one as expected. The other day, on a PC that was doing whatever it is that windows does when the CPU fan goes full tilt while pretending to be asleep (complete with the blinking power light), after waking it up, I managed to have both the notification center and the quick settings displayed. I mistakenly clicked on the notification, then immediately on the settings. The notification panel took forever to show up, and it showed while the settings panel was still showing.
  - veec_cas_tant 3y ago
    These issues from the original comment are not related to Microsoft supporting a wide variety of hardware: > ...the UI with Bing/Ads/telemetrics/etc integration is so crap...
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Those issues are because some exec in Microsoft decided that they can monetize user data and since users already don't care their data being monetized by Google, then they themselves not monetizing it as well, means leaving money on the table since users don't care anyway. That's the logic. Using Windows web components is similar to using Google products.
Krasnol 3y ago
Apple is not even on the same "giant" shelf as Windows, so the circumstances are not similar either.
pjmlp 3y ago
I suggest hearing to ATP Podcast or Upgrade rants regarding how "solid" macOS happens to be.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Why is Mac so solid under similar circumstances? Where do you see MacOS ruining 30 year old binaries?
necovek 3y ago
I've only used MacOS for a year and only recently (maybe that matters), and I get all the same crappy inconsistent behaviour I do on Linux and did on Windows ~20 years ago when I last used it. Apple has the benefit of controlling both hw and sw and still manage to mess it up. Random crashes, slowdowns for long running sessions, crappy UI (eg those labels not checking their checkboxes in Settings), network weirdness (both USB ethernet dongles/hubs and internal WiFi), my USB audio interface picking up garbled audio which requires reselecting audio interface for it to fix itself... Maybe I am doing something different, but it's even worse than Linux for the most part.
- moonchrome 3y ago
  You haven't used Windows in quite a while have you ? Past Windows 7 it's been sliding downhill into bullshit UX, crapware, backend migration to Linux almost exclusively, etc. Random things on top of my head : MacOS doesn't come with candy crush, Instagram, TikTok, Spotify etc. prepopulating your start menu. Phone home telemetry and ads in OS ? Yummy Dealing with Windows dev environment is always a PITA eventually - unless you're doing stuff where Windows is first class citizen (like games). For backend stuff it's almost implicit that you're running on Linux in prod and macos is well supported because it's fairly similar. On Windows it's always some path issues, stuff randomly breaking between updates, missing/incompatible CLI, etc. Brew is pretty good. Chocolatey is garbage. MacOS is fairly visually consistent. Windows regularly has me in Windows XP era screens, reached through 3 inconsistent UX steps developed along the way. Even Linux is better in this regard. I like Linux when it works. Mac works more often. Windows is just a dumpster fire at this point.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Phone home telemetry and ads in OS ? MacOS also has telemetry. >For backend stuff it's almost implicit that you're running on Linux in prod and macos is well supported because it's fairly similar. Then Windows would be better than MacOS in this regard because WSL2 is exactly Linux, not just "fairly similar" to Linux. >stuff randomly breaking between updates What stuff broke for you between updates? Our entire DS team develops in windows + WSL2 and nothing broke for them in ~5 years. Maybe they know how to use a computer. Ultimately just use what you like and what makes you productive, no need to crusade for some big corporation. The OS is just a tool for your job, like a hammer.
rchaud 3y ago
There's B2B Windows and B2C Windows. B2C is the license sold to OEMs, who will fill up the OS image with bloatware anyway to make a few extra bucks. Microsoft is just getting in on that now. B2B Windows is the stuff you would see for enterprise buyers with strict IT policies. Your experience will be mostly unchanged from "classic Windows".

nelsondev 3y ago

Apple employs “Release Managers”, where a single person is ultimately responsible for deciding which features ship in new projects. Apple also, due to the hardware business, adheres to a release schedule where features must all be consolidated onto single branches (“convergence”), rather than letting individual teams ship incrementally.

roneythomas6 3y ago
Not to mention Apple only has to support a limited number of hardware and they regularly drop support for older hardware with each new major release.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  That may be so, but all the annoyances I have with windows don't seem hardware-support related. The laggy menus, the clock in the taskbar that slides to the right outside of view, etc. This can't possibly be related to the fact I have a shiny, brand-new Wi-Fi card.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >the clock in the taskbar that slides to the right outside of view, etc. What? I've never seen the taskbar clock ever move.
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      How this usually happens is that there's a notification indication. I'd click on the clock to show the notification center, dismiss the notification, and the clock would slide "too much" to the right, so that almost half of it is outside the screen. A quick google search doesn't bring my issue up (I'll try to take a screenshot next time it happens, but I'm usually too annoyed of having to use windows to think about it). But it did bring up a separate issue, where the right-hand side icons area (system tray?) and the clock are moved down so that only the top of the date is showing. I've never had that one. I think these are lag-related, as in things move when something opens. But if the thing before didn't complete or something, the new thing happening doesn't get to remove the old one as expected. The other day, on a PC that was doing whatever it is that windows does when the CPU fan goes full tilt while pretending to be asleep (complete with the blinking power light), after waking it up, I managed to have both the notification center and the quick settings displayed. I mistakenly clicked on the notification, then immediately on the settings. The notification panel took forever to show up, and it showed while the settings panel was still showing.
- veec_cas_tant 3y ago
  These issues from the original comment are not related to Microsoft supporting a wide variety of hardware: > ...the UI with Bing/Ads/telemetrics/etc integration is so crap...
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Those issues are because some exec in Microsoft decided that they can monetize user data and since users already don't care their data being monetized by Google, then they themselves not monetizing it as well, means leaving money on the table since users don't care anyway. That's the logic. Using Windows web components is similar to using Google products.

Krasnol 3y ago

Apple is not even on the same "giant" shelf as Windows, so the circumstances are not similar either.

pjmlp 3y ago

I suggest hearing to ATP Podcast or Upgrade rants regarding how "solid" macOS happens to be.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Why is Mac so solid under similar circumstances? Where do you see MacOS ruining 30 year old binaries?

necovek 3y ago

I've only used MacOS for a year and only recently (maybe that matters), and I get all the same crappy inconsistent behaviour I do on Linux and did on Windows ~20 years ago when I last used it. Apple has the benefit of controlling both hw and sw and still manage to mess it up. Random crashes, slowdowns for long running sessions, crappy UI (eg those labels not checking their checkboxes in Settings), network weirdness (both USB ethernet dongles/hubs and internal WiFi), my USB audio interface picking up garbled audio which requires reselecting audio interface for it to fix itself... Maybe I am doing something different, but it's even worse than Linux for the most part.

moonchrome 3y ago
You haven't used Windows in quite a while have you ? Past Windows 7 it's been sliding downhill into bullshit UX, crapware, backend migration to Linux almost exclusively, etc. Random things on top of my head : MacOS doesn't come with candy crush, Instagram, TikTok, Spotify etc. prepopulating your start menu. Phone home telemetry and ads in OS ? Yummy Dealing with Windows dev environment is always a PITA eventually - unless you're doing stuff where Windows is first class citizen (like games). For backend stuff it's almost implicit that you're running on Linux in prod and macos is well supported because it's fairly similar. On Windows it's always some path issues, stuff randomly breaking between updates, missing/incompatible CLI, etc. Brew is pretty good. Chocolatey is garbage. MacOS is fairly visually consistent. Windows regularly has me in Windows XP era screens, reached through 3 inconsistent UX steps developed along the way. Even Linux is better in this regard. I like Linux when it works. Mac works more often. Windows is just a dumpster fire at this point.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Phone home telemetry and ads in OS ? MacOS also has telemetry. >For backend stuff it's almost implicit that you're running on Linux in prod and macos is well supported because it's fairly similar. Then Windows would be better than MacOS in this regard because WSL2 is exactly Linux, not just "fairly similar" to Linux. >stuff randomly breaking between updates What stuff broke for you between updates? Our entire DS team develops in windows + WSL2 and nothing broke for them in ~5 years. Maybe they know how to use a computer. Ultimately just use what you like and what makes you productive, no need to crusade for some big corporation. The OS is just a tool for your job, like a hammer.

rchaud 3y ago

There's B2B Windows and B2C Windows. B2C is the license sold to OEMs, who will fill up the OS image with bloatware anyway to make a few extra bucks. Microsoft is just getting in on that now. B2B Windows is the stuff you would see for enterprise buyers with strict IT policies. Your experience will be mostly unchanged from "classic Windows".