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I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of ou

• rgoulter 3y ago
  "Disputes arising from different communication attitudes in relationships" reminds me of Deborah Tannen's "You Just Don't Understand", which was recommended to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Just_Don%27t_Understand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Just_Don%27t_Understand Tannen's main suggestion is at least if you're aware that someone communicates differently than you do, you might either make accommodation, or better understand things that might frustrate you.
• carabiner 3y ago
  That sounds more like urban vs rural. The southerners I've known (Alabama) are pretty blunt about asking for what they want. Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask.
  • samus 3y ago
    Indeed rural vs. urban is another divide across which such differences are observed. People from big metro areas are usually more blunt than in the surroundings. Probably because people there usually come from diverse backgrounds, but "guess" culture requires the opposite to work.
    • hosh 3y ago
      It may have more to do with deeper, more static personal relationships within a community in rural settings. In urban settings, folks generally don’t know their neighbors, can hide in numbers, have to be more assertive with strangers and acquaintances, and can get away to a fresh start if they wreck their reputation. I think ask vs guess is a good start, but looking at my experience and looking at what people are talking about here, there is at least one more dimension at play here.
    • xeromal 3y ago
      As someone who's lived in both environments, I think most urban people develop a shell from the constant interaction that's required in a city. People selling wares, hobos/homeless, and a stronger need to protect oneself. You have to be blunt or you'll never get anywhere. lol.
      • sethhochberg 3y ago
        This is advice preached to people visiting NYC all the time. The person on the corner asking “excuse me sir may I please ask you a question” almost certainly has ulterior motives. Locals in a busy neighborhood ignore a guy like that a few times a day. But the person on the corner who says “hey which way is the 7 train?” with no preamble is gonna get good answers, despite being less traditionally polite. Where there is constant stimulation, the cultural norms get a lot more direct
        • xeromal 3y ago
          Yeah, on the other hand, I recently was looking for an old land cruiser and got in touch with a local guy on facebook. Knew I wanted it and sent him 1k to hold the car for me for a few days until I could rent a trailer. He did so and I picked up the suv without a hitch. I'd never do this in Los Angeles where I live part time. I context switch based on which home I'm at, North Georgia or Los Angeles.
• detourdog 3y ago
  Baltic state heritage and you sound like my kind of guest/host. To quote Jerad/Donald at Silicon Valley: “I like when people yell at me, at least I know where I stand”.
  • lostlogin 3y ago
    This is a lot like the fantastic line by Scaramucci: 'Where I grew up, we're front stabbers' https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40748918 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40748918
    • brandnewlow 3y ago
      A true friend stabs you in the chest. - Oscar Wilde
  • Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    To misquote quote a meme, I like dominant women not because I want to be humiliated, but because they say what they want.
    • detourdog 3y ago
      I told her she had control problems... she said we can talk about it in 2 weeks.
• AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.
  • solarmist 3y ago
    I learned this this year. I'm in my 40s.
    • AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      Yeah I’m 39 and just learned it last year.
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      • carabiner 3y ago
        That's because we all read Body Keeps the Score at the same time.
        • solarmist 3y ago
          Haven't read it yet. I guess I should.
        • AndrewKemendo 3y ago
          Close…Atlas of the Heart Along with a bunch of other more medical reading
          • solarmist 3y ago
            +1 for Atlas of the Heart, but that was more useful after I handled my childhood trauma.
    • Cthulhu_ 3y ago
• tiffanyh 3y ago
  "Guests, like fish, begin to smell after 3-days" - Ben Franklin
• burlesona 3y ago
  This is fascinating to me, because I'm from the southern US and strongly align to "ask culture" and my wife is from the northwest and strongly aligns to "guess" culture. I wonder how much it's about individual family background and not strongly regional?
  • red-iron-pine 3y ago
    yeah im from the south and there is definitely a level of up-front-ness that i'm not sure the parent comment is talking about. like a level of exuberance and get-it-out-ness that often borders on belligerence "yall doin okay?"
    • gottorf 3y ago
      > "yall doin okay?" Speaking as a Southerner, this sentence is so on point.
    • ubermonkey 3y ago
      Yeah, I'm a lifelong southerner (18 years in MS, 6 in AL, now 29 in Houston). We're pretty up front about what's going on across the board. If you come to a southerner's house, there's usually already hospitality happening -- but if you want something, ask! Just realize we'll say "no" if it's not something we're going to do. This is jarring to people who cannot receive a no, or who cannot articulate one.
    • ketzo 3y ago
      This is counterintuitive, but in the framing of the article, I think that "y'all doin okay?" would actually be part of Guess culture, not Ask culture. It's just a very up-front manifestation of dealing with Guess culture, I think..? It's not Ask culture because the person who needs something is not doing the asking. This is abstract, but stay with me here I'm also Southern, and I think that the inclination towards that kind of belligerent helpfulness comes from trying to figure out what your guests want, and making sure they don't have to ask you for anything. in my experience the response is "we're all good out here, but thank you!" -- which is classic Guess culture
• hinkley 3y ago
  This reminds me of John Mulaney’s bit about Jewish versus Catholic culture. He loved that he didn’t have to guess what his girlfriend was thinking, she would just tell him. No filter. For some people that can be rude or shocking. For others the opposite can be exhausting. The middle ground of mind games is the fucking worst. “Go do that thing I don’t like. It’s fine.” “Why did he go? He knew I was upset!” He answered your passive aggressive bullshit with his own passive aggressive bullshit. That’s why. Good luck in couples therapy.
  • sss111 3y ago
    do you have a link or timestamp for this?
    • crooked-v 3y ago
      Probably this segment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHxa4aPXN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHxa4aPXN8
  • thefourthchime 3y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHxa4aPXN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHxa4aPXN8
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• lillecarl 3y ago
  > I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) You're American, your wife is American.
  • NavinF 3y ago
    You're not wrong, but there are some pretty big differences between south, east, and west. In a lot of ways US states are like independent countries that share a military
    • lillecarl 3y ago
      Absolutely, I just disagree with trying to identify as being from somewhere else when you're born and raised in the US
      • quacked 3y ago
        I'm not identifying as being from somewhere else. I'm explaining the broad origins of northern US and southern US culture. When it comes to talking about US history, people are quick to denigrate the US and explain how young of a country it is. When it comes to talking about the evolution and origins of American culture, people are quick to denigrate the US and explain how far removed it is from its European origins.
  • quacked 3y ago
    Outside America, this is true. Inside America, if you are unaware of pronounced regional cultural differences arising from the settler groups that form your ancestry and local culture, you're either ignorant, or not American.
    • ttepasse 3y ago
      But you’re already using perfectly good American regional identifiers for those regional differences in your original post. Pet peeve from a European: the American habit of using their distant ancestor’s European ethnicity as a shorthand for stereotypical personality and culture today a) undervalues the massive political and cultural changes in Europe since their ancestor’s emigration und b) undervalues the regional differences inside their ancestor’s origin country. Being german I find both Ask and Guess culture here, just 50 km apart. And often in the same place, differing by class or the rural/urban divide. Describing „German“ as just Ask culture is rather wrong from my perspective. I know the outside and Hollywood stereotypes differ. (And c), I think, distant ancestors ethnic stereotypes undervalues the melting pot/salad bowl effect over generations of the US itself.)
• mgaunard 3y ago
  The American south always were the sophisticated ones, with proper etiquette.
• huijzer 3y ago
  I‘ve gone through a ton of comments below and see a lot of contradicting evidence to your thoughtful suggestion. Also my girlfriend and I are both from north Europe and I notice a similar difference. Maybe the difference is mostly > she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity This reminds me of a quote from Buffett from about 40 years ago. He said something along the lines of "when women are raised, they hear and see a million reasons why they cannot do things whereas men see and hear a million reasons why they can do things". If I would be convinced by the world that I am not good, then sure I would treat guests amazingly well. If I would be convinced by the world I‘m amazing, then why bother treating guests well? They can say it if they need anything. I‘m happy to hear counterarguments if you have them
  • nonethewiser 3y ago
    The American south has a very distinct attitude towards guests. Very hospitable. That’s the difference in his case.
    • xcxcx 3y ago
      You make it sound like they do it out of the kindness of their hearts when they allegedly do it out of anxiety and self doubt
  • morby 3y ago
    I generally agree. A lot of contradictory statements and I would only add to that. I feel like people tend to pigeonhole each region in the US, the US itself, and indeed any other country into what “people act like”. There might be a common thread that is statistical but it’s not monolithic in any sense. Micro cultures exist and interplay with the macro culture especially in a networked world.
    • trompetenaccoun 3y ago
      Well the article we're commenting on claims it's also an East vs West thing, and that Asians are "deeply in guess culture". Which, if you know Mainland China only a little you'll know isn't a thing, because in China it's not uncommon for people to make the most outrageous requests without breaking a sweat. Which in turn is seen as embarrassing or rude by some other Chinese. That may be much less common in Japan, where people are obsessed with etiquette. But then the author should say it's a part of Japanese culture, not Asian culture. All this seems like good old stereotyping to me. It often comes down to the individual family or even the individual person. Maybe their social skills, maybe their level of selfishness. Maybe also how much they care about how they're seen by others vs how comfortable they are being themselves. A lot of factors can play into this.
• Delk 3y ago
  I feel somewhat conflicted about this. I'm from Finland, and while we aren't technically Scandinavian and might be something of an outlier among Northern Europeans in general, the stereotype is that we're not fond of small talk and prefer to be to the point and perhaps even blunt. But in terms of asking for things, I don't feel like I identify with the culture of directly asking. Feeling out or giving hints that I might appreciate some help without making outright requests seems a lot less intrusive and graceful to me. And while personality is probably also a factor, I don't think it's just me. I think we're generally a high-context culture, and the "guessing" culture as postulated in the post immediately reminds me of that. I don't know if other Northern European cultures are less high-context but it makes me wonder if high vs. low context (possibly similar to guessing vs. asking) is not quite the same axis as bluntness.
  • morby 3y ago
    Northern European countries are, I believe, generally considered low context countries. High context countries include Japan, India, several Middle Eastern countries, France etc
  • distances 3y ago
    Definitely true, and this also applies to getting things without asking. As a somewhat tongue in cheek example -- if you have guests over you should offer coffee three times. They may refuse the first two and accept the third time. But if you do not offer thrice, they'll go home and complain that you were too stingy to even provide coffee. You should read the manner of refusal in these kinds of cases, and offer more profusely if the situation demands. I am built this way. It's weird to admit, but not only I will not ask directly; I am very hesitant to accept things even when offered. Definitely very high on the guess culture scale, and I know that's incompatible with how some other cultures operate, so I'm trying to be mindful about it and behave more directly when situation demands.
    • detourdog 3y ago
      Bedouin culture is based on asking 3 times knowing the first 2 don’t count. I always saw it as a way for a host to try a couple of alternatives before working on the actual need.
• xxEightyxx 3y ago
  I can relate to this. I am a 3rd generation American, family immigrated over from Norway and Sweden and our heritage and traditions are still very strongly observed. We are protestant as well and live in the northern U.S. My family is a bit on the extreme of guessing culture to the point where we won't say anything and often folks find us very cold. I am made acutely aware of this everyday - from romantic partners, friends, and even strangers. My siblings and I were simply raised this way and it's all but impossible to change my behavior. When we visit family in both Norway and Sweden it's almost like "whew" we can relax and breathe and everything feels very comfortable because the pace of society is slower, at restaurants and during normal activities out and about in the towns, you generally do not have to worry about folks approaching you. My current partner is also a 3rd generation American, her family on both sides is Irish. They are incredibly social and outgoing and just 10 minutes she informed me we are having our neighbors over (he is a 2nd generation American of Irish descent and his partner is a 2nd generation Dutch). They are all very social and won't hesitate to offer a beer or help or anything really, which I certainly appreciate it but I'm uncomfortable accepting anything. An even more extreme example is my older brother. I almost look like a social butterfly in comparison because I won't hesitate to complain about the weather, work, anything really. Whereas he is very stoic and quiet. We were in the construction industry with our father and we all would mostly work in silence building homes and apartment buildings, and when we expanded and hired new folks it made them really uncomfortable. Once, my brother fell off a roof and he just laid there in a daze. I rushed down to him and by the time I got to him (no more than 20 seconds) he was already getting back up on the roof and just said "I'm fine". Another time his lung collapsed and he didn't tell anyone until his 5th day in the hospital! It's really disappointing sometimes.
  • earthboundkid 3y ago
    My grandfather’s parents were Swedish, and that attitude certainly describes their side of the family: don’t talk about how you feel, don’t complain, don’t express emotions hot or cold.
• dools 3y ago
  Recalcitrant: having an obstinately uncooperative attitude towards authority or discipline. I think you mean reluctant.
• aidenn0 3y ago
  I have a friend from the western US who was explicitly taught by her (white) mother that you always refuse a favor the first time it is offered. There were many months of me never doing any favors for her before we figured that one out...
  • deaddodo 3y ago
    I'm from a western state and my family is pretty white. I've never heard this. You definitely don't glob onto any/all favors and you shouldn't accept something you wouldn't be willing to reciprocate in the same position, else you're bound to be seen as social baggage eventually. But if you need something and someone offers: sure, take it. There's no social dance to it. Just don't be a leech, but accept help when it's needed and don't offer help unless you're genuinely willing to give it.
    • matheusmoreira 3y ago
      > There's no social dance to it. There is. What constitutes a leech varies from person to person, from culture to culture. Accepting help could easily lead to resentment, it's entirely possible they were offering help to seem generous while simultaneously expecting to be refused. Offering help at all could be offensive because you're in a position of strength while they're in a position of weakness, it implies they need you, ingratiates them with you, puts them in your debt. Correctly navigating these waters requires instant judgements based on huge amounts of social information like status, reputation, personality, context, non-verbal cues like tone of voice and body language. It is difficult to do this deliberately because during conversations there is not enough time to deeply analyze anything. It's best left to an uncounscious mind honed sharp by repeated practice.
      • deaddodo 3y ago
        Fine. There's no systematic dance, like more socially stoic cultures. New England and Southern cultures being the prime contrast; but you could use the caste system of India as an extreme contrast, if you like. Every interpersonal relationship has its own dance, no matter where you're from. That's what socializing is.
• deaddodo 3y ago
  I grew up in Southern California, and neither of your descriptors really apply to the general culture there. Social conventions in the area are far less structured nor regimentalized, so if you needed something serious (a loan from a family, help moving, a ride to work, etc) you should probably ask. If you had some minor issue, most people would keep it to themselves; not necessarily hoping for someone to "guess", but would respond pretty openly if you did probe/"guess". I will say, the general lack of structure/formality in general social interactions is probably the biggest contrast between West Coast (especially SoCal) and either your New England or your wive's Southern upbringing. At least, this is my experience with transplants from those regions and their biggest complaints ("why don't people RSVP", "why are they wearing business casual to a fancy event", "why don't people bring gifts to get-togethers", etc).
  • georgeecollins 3y ago
    Southern California is great (I live there) but its not exactly Western. My family is from Northern California, by way of the gold rush and very waspy, hence very guess culture. "I wonder if someone should open a window?" So cal is in the west but most of the people didn't come over during western expansion or work on a farm or ranch. A lot came from the mid-west. So its sort of more like Arizona or even parts of Texas.
• yogrish 3y ago
  I have similar situation at home. I am from guess culture and always think about what the guests might need and offer them ahead. But my wife expects them to ask and doesn't bother much or ignores them. I see people from guess culture tend to be more empathetic as they think from others POV but the downside is they have anxiety of what others might judge and be more stressed. Ask culture people tend to be more situationally unaware and don't bother much and are relaxed.
• curiousgal 3y ago
  > whereas I find the English hilariously polite I think it boils down to people mistaking being polite to being nice.