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To address these challenges, the Chinese government has enforced exit bans and placed these individuals under strict supervision. They are often required to ret

To address these challenges, the Chinese government has enforced exit bans and placed these individuals under strict supervision. They are often required to return these funds to China, potentially under threat of reduced prison sentences. This sounds not right... but yeah... it is China. And China does not have other means to use like US to extradite fugitives or request the money back even it got all the evidence... exit-ban and blackmailing are the only way China can go... This doesn’t sound so unreasonable to me. These guys knew what game they were playing. They could have not tried to scam the Chinese government in order to build a foreign fortune and live abroad as kleptocrats.

misja111 3y ago
Exactly, I was about to say the same. I find it a very good idea to hold executives personally accountable for mismanagement. I'm not a great fan of Chinese politics but the rest of the world could learn something from China here. (remember the credit crisis anyone?)
wenyuanyu 3y ago
To me, the use of exit bans and coercive measures to bring fugitives back to China does not seem unreasonable under specific circumstances. While employing these tactics for political reasons would be problematic, they serve as some of the only tools available to the Chinese government to act against corruption and embezzlement. These measures provide leverage and serve as a deterrent to prevent corrupt officials from fleeing China with substantial illicit gains [0]. This approach is not a secret; it is well-publicized within China and internationally. For example, the BBC reported on China's "Fox Hunt" operation in 2014, although the tone of the reporting has notably changed over time [1][2]. Despite China's extensive global connections, it faces significant legal constraints in its efforts to establish extradition treaties with major countries. Given the current international political climate, the prospects of forming such treaties appear to be minimal. In this context, what other options does China have at its disposal to combat corruption and hold individuals accountable? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fox_Hunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fox_Hunt [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30358060 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30358060 [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65537553 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65537553
- nradov 3y ago
  The other option that China has at its disposal is to introduce multiparty democracy with the rule of law and guarantees of civil rights. Most other countries would then be happy to extradite suspects to China.
  - bradleyjg 3y ago
    If someone had the means and opportunity to make a clean break with PRC but instead choose to not only stay but work extensively and successfully, at least for a while, with the government—-well that guy seems like part of the problem.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  So punishing innocent people is justified?
  - geysersam 3y ago
    Innocent in what sense? In China it's not always enough to not break a law to be innocent. You might also have to act in the spirit of the law (as interpreted by the CCP) to be sure to not become the target of the justice system. This is very different from the western system. But I think most people would agree that sometimes complete "rule of law" can also lead to perverse outcomes where very immoral business behaviours go unpunished.
    - f154hfds 3y ago
      I think this misses half of the purpose of 'rule of law'. Some laws are to protect interest of citizens in the state and the state itself, sure, and in that sense the importance of 'spirit of the law' could be cultural. But the other aspect of law is minimizing surprise. Efficiency of commerce depends on a certain amount of consistency around laws. The more consistent the interpretation around a body of laws the more efficiently commerce can occur. In this sense relying on 'spirit of law' is wildly unhelpful because in order to understand legal cause and effect you have to read tea leaves, understand the leaders in office, etc. The west is not immune to this problem but we depart from strict written law to our peril.

misja111 3y ago

Exactly, I was about to say the same. I find it a very good idea to hold executives personally accountable for mismanagement. I'm not a great fan of Chinese politics but the rest of the world could learn something from China here. (remember the credit crisis anyone?)

wenyuanyu 3y ago

To me, the use of exit bans and coercive measures to bring fugitives back to China does not seem unreasonable under specific circumstances. While employing these tactics for political reasons would be problematic, they serve as some of the only tools available to the Chinese government to act against corruption and embezzlement. These measures provide leverage and serve as a deterrent to prevent corrupt officials from fleeing China with substantial illicit gains [0]. This approach is not a secret; it is well-publicized within China and internationally. For example, the BBC reported on China's "Fox Hunt" operation in 2014, although the tone of the reporting has notably changed over time [1][2]. Despite China's extensive global connections, it faces significant legal constraints in its efforts to establish extradition treaties with major countries. Given the current international political climate, the prospects of forming such treaties appear to be minimal. In this context, what other options does China have at its disposal to combat corruption and hold individuals accountable? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fox_Hunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fox_Hunt [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30358060 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30358060 [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65537553 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65537553

nradov 3y ago
The other option that China has at its disposal is to introduce multiparty democracy with the rule of law and guarantees of civil rights. Most other countries would then be happy to extradite suspects to China.
- bradleyjg 3y ago
  If someone had the means and opportunity to make a clean break with PRC but instead choose to not only stay but work extensively and successfully, at least for a while, with the government—-well that guy seems like part of the problem.
brigadier132 3y ago
So punishing innocent people is justified?
- geysersam 3y ago
  Innocent in what sense? In China it's not always enough to not break a law to be innocent. You might also have to act in the spirit of the law (as interpreted by the CCP) to be sure to not become the target of the justice system. This is very different from the western system. But I think most people would agree that sometimes complete "rule of law" can also lead to perverse outcomes where very immoral business behaviours go unpunished.
  - f154hfds 3y ago
    I think this misses half of the purpose of 'rule of law'. Some laws are to protect interest of citizens in the state and the state itself, sure, and in that sense the importance of 'spirit of the law' could be cultural. But the other aspect of law is minimizing surprise. Efficiency of commerce depends on a certain amount of consistency around laws. The more consistent the interpretation around a body of laws the more efficiently commerce can occur. In this sense relying on 'spirit of law' is wildly unhelpful because in order to understand legal cause and effect you have to read tea leaves, understand the leaders in office, etc. The west is not immune to this problem but we depart from strict written law to our peril.