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A number of my acquaintances (rural Montana) went through this after high school. It is noble and it is well-intentioned. When students stick with it it often o
by presidentender 3y ago
A number of my acquaintances (rural Montana) went through this after high school. It is noble and it is well-intentioned. When students stick with it it often opens new opportunities that wouldn't be available otherwise.
But it's not a silver bullet, and it requires a certain amount of diligence and self-awareness to be able to finish the program. It's not a party atmosphere like college or entry-level employment can be: how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time? How many 22-year-olds want to go months without drinking?
That said, it's a clear and coherent step forward for people who might otherwise feel lost, and that's a very good thing.
Now, if only they had something for NEETs over job corps's age limit....
- ForHackernews 3y ago> how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time? Sounds like all the young people in the military.
- presidentender 3y agoIs everyone suited for military service?
- poopbutt7 3y agoNo, some people are not suited for military service.
- mistrial9 3y agoif everyone is expected to do it, then the character of the program changes.. I am guessing at that since many ordinary countries have mandatory government service. I doubt that everyone there is subjected to classical troops psychology training, which is not for everyone.
- JohnFen 3y agoAnd all freshman at the university my children went to, where all first-year students are required to live in the dorms.
- NoNotTheDuo 3y agoIf you think that all of the freshman that lived in the dorms went to every class, much less showed up on time for every class, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...
- JohnFen 3y agoWhere did I say I thought that? Although most do, because of the supervision. The "party problem" doesn't really start until sophomore year. Unless you're in a frat or sorority. Those count as "dorms" for the requirement, and are notorious.
- eitally 3y agoAre you talking about a specific school, because there is almost 0 supervision (I would call what dorm RAs do as more "emergency oversight") and freshman absolutely party the same as upperclassmen & women. Also, you should know that many colleges & universities apply far greater oversight to frats & sororities these days than genpop, and many are dry.
- JohnFen 3y agoYes, I was specifically talking about the university my children went to, because it's the only one I know anything about. > because there is almost 0 supervision (I would call what dorm RAs do as more "emergency oversight") and freshman absolutely party the same as upperclassmen & women. I know that there are schools where this is true. But I also know there is at least one school where this is certainly not true.
- wholinator2 3y ago
- red-iron-pine 3y agoand no one in the military enjoys that. plus we got drunk as hell all the time, even with clearances. even in iraq a couple of times. showing up to formation hammered and doing some sloppy PT was like a right of passage.
- jvanderbot 3y ago> showing up In a less rigorous setting like one implied by jobcorps, this would be much more voluntary. The peer culture in the military, combined with isolation and authoritarianism really does keep people in line, even if they screw up all the time along the way. Source: 5 military family members.
- bb611 3y agoAbsolutely not "all", a massive amount of management (non-commission and commissioned officer) time is spent policing the behavior of 18-22 year olds, frequently including dealing with their criminal behavior both in and outside of the military. In 2021, the latest year DoD has reported, 2.6% of active duty military were kicked out of the military for either failing to do their jobs or criminal behavior.^1 In 2020, it was nearly 3.1%.^2 This is the small fraction of people who were even willing to volunteer for the military, and then completed a significantly more strenuous recruiting process than nearly any private sector job. Having a sucky life in return for learning job skills isn't worth it to most Americans of any age! Also note all branches are having trouble recruiting the last several years, to the tune of 25-30,000 recruits short this year. Again, most people do not want to do this! 1. https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2021-demographics-report.pdf https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/202... pg 50 shows active duty separations by type, I refer to Military Requirement/Behavior/Performance and Legal Issues/Standards of Conduct. 2. https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2020-demographics-report.pdf https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/202... Similar to above, pg 46
- yamazakiwi 3y agoNone of us wanted to live in a dorm setting or enjoyed showing up on time. Most are in to get away from their native location or to get money for school/GI Bill, not because the idea of military is more appealing than being a civilian.
- MisterBastahrd 3y agoMy ex-gf's sister went through this and lasted until a week before the end when she decided to get into a fist fight with another girl at the program. They immediately sent her back home and she lost everything she had gained. This ending up also eventually being the catalyst for losing her kids to the system. I personally do not see why job training should have anything like an age requirement. If you're old enough to be on your own, and you need assistance, then assistance should be made available to you.
- pmayrgundter 3y agoAgree and came here to say as much. Devil's advocate, assuming limited resources for the program, it makes more sense to invest them in younger cohorts in terms of total ROI to society. However, surely doesn't satisfy the principle of equality under the law. Alas
- datavirtue 3y agoI don't know of anyone qualified to judge someones "ROI to society." That is a totally fucked up outlook. What next, eugenics?
- labster 3y agoThat is literally the job of politicians.
- pmayrgundter 3y agoThey said "qualified", heheh ;)
- dvasdekis 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Estimates_of_the_value_of_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Estimates_of_the...
- something168581 3y ago
- burkaman 3y agoThe site says some of the centers let you live off campus. And why do you say you have to go months without drinking? I understand there won't be college parties there, but I assume you're welcome to go to a bar in your free time if you want to? A lot of the centers are in or near cities.
- verteu 3y agoSeems you're not allowed to be 'drunk' even if you're of legal age. From the handbook [1]: "NOTE: Students who are aged 21 or older may drink alcohol when off center and not under center supervision; however, they cannot bring alcohol onto the center. In addition, if students of any age return to the center intoxicated, it is categorized as a Level II “intoxication” infraction described below." Where: "we consider an individual intoxicated when they exhibit a state in which their capacity to act or reason normally has been inhibited by the ingestion of a substance with the intent to cause such a state [including alcohol]" [2] [1] https://prh.jobcorps.gov/Exhibits/Exhibit%202-1%20Infraction%20Levels%20Definitions%20and%20Appropriate%20Center%20Actions.pdf#search=alcohol https://prh.jobcorps.gov/Exhibits/Exhibit%202-1%20Infraction... [2] https://supportservices.jobcorps.gov/Information%20Notices/in_17_01b.pdf https://supportservices.jobcorps.gov/Information%20Notices/i...
- soligern 3y agoSo like every college dorm ever
- burkaman 3y agoI mean that seems fine. There's kids as young as 16 there and it's run by the federal government, I would not expect them to let you bring in alcohol or show up trashed.
- gowld 3y agoIt's a bit iffy if your own bed is on-center, so your can't sleep off off-center inebriation.
- chrisweekly 3y agoUrban Dictionary says: NEET This is a term used in the field of education, the acronym stands for; Not in Education, Employment or Training but young people have started to use it as a term for bums/layabouts with no future.
- avree 3y agoYes, because generally speaking if you are not in Education, Employment, or Training, you are spinning your wheels.
- lacoolj 3y agoor a stay at home mom
- soligern 3y agoThat’s employment in society’s eyes.
- bullfightonmars 3y agoWell in reality stay at home parents are engaged in unpaid employment that is completely unrecognized (or recognized as Not in Labor Force).
- soligern 3y ago>in society’s eyes That’s all that really matters for many people.
- carlosjobim 3y agoUnrecognized by who? Unpaid? You are investing in the most valuable thing that exists. Is somebody else supposed to pay you to raise your own children?
- 3y ago
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago> How many 22-year-olds want to go months without drinking? By the time I was 22, it had been 4 years. Just sayin'... But I suspect it's nothing, compared to army life.
- gowld 3y agoYeah, national service without the violence is a nice option to have. Some say that's what started the end of the Great Depression, but the government lacked the confidence to fully invest until they got a violent war for justification.
- vkou 3y agoNot sure why this is such an unpopular opinion. There's no shortage of public work that needs to be done, there's no shortage of people[1] who want to do work, why not a national service that actually improves lives? [1] Well, okay, at this precise moment, unemployment is at historic lows, but that hasn't always been the case, and won't always be the case.
- drc500free 3y agoI think pretty much all public works projects are now viewed as "political," while military service is not. So we send the military in to do non-violent work. It's considered totally normal that a lot of domestic, civil projects are handled by the Army Corps of Engineers.
- nomat 3y agoThe values system we have is very different compared to the 30s or 40s or even the 60s. The idea of a society where we all contribute and all benefit is dead and gone. The media has given up all pretense of caring and now preaches consumerism over god and country. Compromise is a sign of weakness. As is empathy for fellow citizens. In short, a big enough percentage of the people today don't want to improve the lives of their fellow americans, and they elect politicians to actively make this place worse. Many of our "intractable" issues are policy issues and are completely fixable within 1 or 2 generations and honestly have always been fixable.
- foooorsyth 3y ago> Now, if only they had something for NEETs over job corps's age limit.... A bit ironic that the cut off is 24 and the rough age of full brain maturity is 25 (and loss of parental insurance is 26). So the young adults that had poor/no guidance or made poor decisions in youth don’t get this opportunity once they get their head on straight and realize they need to acquire some skills (pretty common character arc for young men, at least in my circles).
- jvanderbot 3y agoAfter 24 you qualify for significantly more financial aid for traditional or tech schools, because you are considered a "non traditional student". Source: used this to get my PhD coming from factory work. Regret nothing.
- da02 3y agoCan you elaborate what financial aid you qualified for after 24? How did you discover it? Word-of-mouth or Google searches?
- the_only_law 3y agoNot sure if this is what they meant, but I believe the financial aid system considers you to be a “dependent” if you’re under 24 period. Regardless of your tax filing status or anything else save for a few extreme circumstances. This means, that until 24, any aid you get is calculated based on your parents’ income + your income. Even if you’ve been fully independent since 18. Combined with the laughable EFC calculations, this often means less aid available. Of course if you make a middle class income, you probably still won’t qualify for any useful aid after 24.
- no_wizard 3y agoIIRC there are two exceptions to FAFSA being considered dependent if you're under 24 One is if you are an emancipated adult. The other being if you're married.
- cercatrova 3y ago> how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time? Most college kids? Even the no-drinking part these days comprises many college students, the number of young people who don't drink is rising.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago50% of under-21 college students engage in underage drinking. The number for of-age students is even higher. 44% use cannabis. We can safely say that those two groups overlap significantly, but barring people who consume either dramatically cuts back on your potential pool.
- xNeil 3y agoPer my experience, I can't attest to that of cannabis, but the percentage of students drinking alcohol underage is significantly higher than 50% in every college I have heard of or visited.
- toasted-subs 3y agoShit I’ll go months/years without drinking or smoking only to find out that everybody else seems to have gotten away with murder but me.
- topato 3y agoAs a 32 year old NEET myself, who scored a 1560 composite SAT then did nothing with it, where do I go when my self-employment tanks (which it has)? ... asking for a friend
- presidentender 3y agoGrab a slot on my calendly and lemme see if I can't give you some advice: https://calendly.com/kaiser-stage/30min-1 https://calendly.com/kaiser-stage/30min-1
- okaram 3y agoIn the US? The most obvious way would be to get a crappy job, enter community college; in two years, get an associates and a better job, and go from there.
- whimsicalism 3y agoIf you’re 32 years old the composite should be out of 2400
- saagarjha 3y ago…maybe it was?
- la64710 3y agoI love to see our hard earned tax dollars used for such positive things.
- cbozeman 3y agoNot only is it not a silver bullet, but they're just flat out bullshitting these kids. "Computer Technician Network+, average salary $68,90x - $108,xxx" LOL. Please show me the employer willing to hire an 18-24 year old graduate of this Job Corps program for $69k to $108k. Some of the salary estimates are so hilariously off the mark.