15 ms·

DIY Espresso (2020)

254 points by timvdalen 3y ago

dkdbejwi383 3y ago
Similar topic which might be of interest to HN readers is the [Gaggiuino](https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/ https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/), an open source project that adds a microcontroller to fairly affordable and mechanically simple domestic espresso machines, bringing them (almost) up to par with machines that cost 5x as much
- benoliver999 3y ago
  I love this sort of thing. But I learnt more about it from your comment vs the actual docs!
  - dkdbejwi383 3y ago
    That might be one of the reasons they're trying to fundraise for a technical writer! I think the docs currently serve more as an installation & troubleshooting manual, and assumes some kind of familiarity.
- kozhevnikov 3y ago
  Lance Hedrick in his latest video (review of Decent XL) mentions that he got the Gaggiuino parts, but haven't got around to building it. I look forward to that video, whenever it comes out.
  - dkdbejwi383 3y ago
    Yeah, I’m looking forward to his experience. I’ve been on the fence about whether to build a Gaggiuino myself, or sell the GCP and upgrade to a dual boiler machine. I don’t really care for flow profiling, but more stable temps and auto shot timing would be nice to have. And I make a lot of milk drinks so a DB would eliminate some of the wait time and need to flush the boiler.
- yourusername 3y ago
  A bit less DIY but similar functionally is the kit Shades of Coffee sells that also adds PID to the Gaggia classic. If you're just after the functionality of a cheap espresso machine with PID that takes a lot less effort.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    For even less effort buy a breville bambino.
    - dkdbejwi383 3y ago
      I've been tempted a few times, especially by the fast (efficient) heat up times. But I have a bunch of 58mm tampers, dosing funnels, etc, so the 54mm portalfilter is a bit offputting!
      - quickthrower2 3y ago
        As a Barista express person going 54mm is a regret. 58 is more versatile and compatiable. But the recommendation was more for budget purchases. Breville also do a dual boiler with 58mm which is more expensive but if you live in Australia is amazingly good value (often $900AU which is about $600US). If you have more money still get a La Marzocco or whatever :-) My taste is to avoid fiddly things that need too much skill like heat exchangers etc.
  - speed_spread 3y ago
    If anybody's interested in a packaged solution, Auber Instruments has been making PIDs and timers for Gaggia and Rancilio machines for a looong time. Their support is also top notch. (I use their PID with my Silvia) https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&sort=20a https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&s...
    - matthewmcg 3y ago
      I have one. It’s made my machine so much better. Once you find a grind setting and dose weight that works well for your beans, you get perfectly reproducible shots.
- fodkodrasz 3y ago
  The site would definitely need a rework based on the input from someone totally unfamiliar with the project. I cannot know from the opening page, what coffee machines the mod is for, but I can see that an STM32 or an arduino nano and some other parts would be needed. Not really informative, no pictures on the opening page to show something like before/after, to showcase the benefits, etc. Yet there is a rickroll... This is not really sympathetic, but yeah, I can see the begging icon (support paying for a professional technical writer)... but this is also really backwards in my opinion. First you should sell the project to me, then ask for donation. While the engineering contents might be great, the presentation is very low quality, to put it politely.
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    It’s only for a Gaggia. It’s one of those projects that you only stumble into if you already have a Gaggia.
    - blueblob 3y ago
      As someone that's been looking into it, it's not just for the Gaggia. It's also for some Silvia models and they have a small list of others that people have gotten it to work for. The list is, unfortunately, on discord and the discord server has some really petty rules and a lot of superiority complexes.
  - spdif899 3y ago
    I feel the same, as someone who has a Gaggia Classic collecting dust and has long considered splurging on a near-$1000 option because I want all these features... This is so vaguely written as to seem far more daunting than it probably should, it's unclear how much money or time it would cost me, I don't even know where to start with it. Cool idea, but totally unapproachable to someone without extensive related background.
    - yeswecatan 3y ago
      If you're in the Bay Area I'd love to take the Gaggia off your hands :)
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  I own a Gaggia Classic that this mod is for and I'm a little unsure of calling a nearly $500 machine + DIY 'affordable'
  - bondarchuk 3y ago
    That's less than a year of 1 takeaway coffee a day.
    - agloe_dreams 3y ago
      Before the $200 grinder, and the ~$200-300 of quality coffee beans in a year. Meanwhile, one can also get a temp-controlled kettle, a V60, a years supply of filters, and a hand grinder for ~$80. Skip the temp control and hand grinder and you are down to $30 or less. It is better than daily takeout, sure..but lets not pretend it is just a randomly affordable purchase for most when brewing non-espresso is far cheaper for good quality. Trust me, I know, I spent the money on mine. Love it, for sure...but is every bit a luxury good.
      - bondarchuk 3y ago
        I was assuming the takeout coffee is espresso. If so it's not fair to compare to a non-espresso alternative imho. Now for really affordable (almost-)espresso there's always the blade grinder + moka pot, of course. (anyway "affordable" is highly subjective ofc so what does it even really matter :))
SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
Gotta admit the combo of 3D printed parts, high pressure and hot water makes me a little nervous but that looks like a very cool device
- wwykeham 3y ago
  There's an important extra ingredient that you didn't specify: FEA. He did a proper finite element analysis, which is the only way that I would be willing to be in the same room as a 3D printed pressure vessel. Temperature was interesting though. I assume it partially because the hot water was mostly in contact with metal rather than plastic. I don't know what he printed it from but ABS's melting point[1] is only just above water boiling point. We've got a UV cured 3D printer at work (projet) which has some much better temperature properties. [1] Technically "glass transition temperature" if you want be all materials-science about it
  - beAbU 3y ago
    I'm quite certain they conducted FEA on the Titan DSV's hull. And look how that turned out.
    - speed_spread 3y ago
      They then also proceeded to _repeatedly_ exceed the design parameters (depth) that FEA had been performed with. You can't beat stupid.
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      I, too, thought of the Titan when I saw that photo of all the leaks under only espresso PSI.
  - criddell 3y ago
    Modeling with FEA is great but I wonder if he also did a fatigue analysis. It might not blow up the first time, but will it blow up three years later after the parts have been pressurized and thermally cycled 1000 times?
frognumber 3y ago
This is nice. If I were doing it, my design would consist of: (1) A bike pump (goes up to >200 PSI) (2) A pressure tank (3) Two valves I would pump up the tank to ~130PSI, getting my morning exercise in. I would exhaust it through the coffee. If I wanted to get fancy, I might have an extra intermediate stage so I can use fresh air, rather than air which has been through my bike pump. I'd like to be able to buy something like (any) of these. My requirements: - Cheap - Reliable - Makes good coffee Nice-to-haves: - Compact Anti-requirements (which should make this possible): - Fast to use and practical in a fast-paced environment. I make one cup of coffee a day, and it's a ritual. I'm okay with this taking a while, needing to work a bike pump, or whatnot. Slow is okay.
- andreareina 3y ago
  I don't know if the reservoir is big enough but some pumps for tubeless tires do come with an integral tank for an initial rush of air to pop the bead in place.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  Get yourself a lever machine? It's an espresso machine that's fully manual. You create pressure by using a lever. Water is manually poured in. Cheapness is hard to have in a product that's big, heavy and involves big chunks of metal, but on the good side a well made one should last forever -- nothing much that can go wrong, and it's a purely mechanical device that can be taken apart.
  - jnovek 3y ago
    +1 for a lever! I found a busted up old La Pavoni years ago, replaced all the seals and it’s been good to me ever since. There’s a bit of art to pulling a shot on a lever but once you get used to it, it’s a really fun way to make your coffee every day.
    - sudb 3y ago
      Another happy La Pavoni owner here! I was originally after a totally manual lever machine but found a great deal (~£200) on a second hand La Pavoni in miraculously good condition and couldn't be happier (apart from the occasional burned knuckle). Readily available spare parts and lack of any serious electronics means that hopefully this thing should last me a lifetime. My one recommended upgrade is a compatibly bottomless portafilter + 20g basket.
avidphantasm 3y ago
Just buy a Flair.
jcfrei 3y ago
So which espresso making device does HN prefer? I've bought myself a Kamira but looking to try out others as well.
- seanhunter 3y ago
  Firstly I would say that the grinder makes an outsize difference relative to cost so I would strongly recommend you first invest in something like a Mahlkohning Vario (this is what I have as a present from my lovely wife who just by pure coincidence also likes nice coffee). Then I have a friend who is an ex-high-end-barista and gigantic coffee snob (like coffee snob's coffee snob) and insists that once you have a good grinder it's more important to get a reverse osmosis filter than a high-end espresso machine. Make of that what you will, but if you want to investigate that he swears by this book[1] and having drunk coffee at Colonna and Smalls in Bath (owned by one of the guys who wrote the book) I can say he might be on to something. Certainly every cafe that does amazing coffee has an RO filter. I have an ECM entry-level machine and it's great. I dont' need (or ever use) the frothing parts unless we have guests but they do the thing they are supposed to and the main coffee bit works great. I wish it could get a bit more pressure but it makes a good cup of espresso if I tamp well and use nice beans (which, you should always use nice beans. There's really no excuse for that one). In the UK you can get great home coffee equipment as well as advice from Bella Barista[2]. Probably most countries have a place like that but even if you're not in the UK I would look at what they have as being a good starting point. [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/water-for-coffee/maxwell-colonna-dashwood/christopher-hendon/9781782806080 https://www.waterstones.com/book/water-for-coffee/maxwell-co... [2] https://bellabarista.co.uk/ https://bellabarista.co.uk/
  - matwood 3y ago
    I would agree with your friend. I typically do pour over, and getting a nice grinder was a huge upgrade for the coffee flavor. I also only use filtered water. Next is fresher beans. Frowned upon I'm sure, but for espresso a machine like Nespresso or L'Or has worked fine in a pinch.
  - drittich 3y ago
    I have a Mazzer Mini grinder that's pretty old and I suspect it is the weak link in the chain (paired with Rocket espresso machine). Is there an easy way to tell if the grinder is doing its job well, e.g., some reliable way to examine the grain size?
eur0pa 3y ago
I find it somewhat cute that according to this article, $500 is "grows on trees" kind of money. In the espresso hobby, $500 is barely enough to get a decent grinder.
- fellowmartian 3y ago
  DF64 is $350. Haven’t tried it myself (I have a Sette), but if I was buying now I’d go for DF64, flat burr is nice.
  - ctroein89 3y ago
    I love my DF64. I found it on sale, and informed my wife that it'd be her Christmas and birthday present to me: totally worth it. Even with a $100 DeLonghi EC155, the difference from the grinder is incredible.
- njovin 3y ago
  For anyone who is discouraged by this (accurate) comment, don't discount the utility of a manual grinder. You can get a 1Zpresso which is a beautiful, durable piece of equipment for a fraction of the cost of an automatic grinder and it takes all of 30 seconds to grind your own beans to perfection.
  - flyingshoes 3y ago
    The KINGrinder KX is a cheaper alternative to the 1Zpresso line. But yeah, definitely don't discount manual grinders. But note grinding for espresso with a handgrinder is... an exercise. lol.
  - eur0pa 3y ago
    1Z just issued a recall for the chipping burrs affair on their X-Ultra line. They went for cheaper alloys and people ended up with metal shavings in their cup. Old grinders seem to be fine. I’d wait a hot second before getting a 1Z right now
- demondemidi 3y ago
woolion 3y ago
Interesting, I was looking back at https://sohl.substack.com/p/espresso-and-open-source-hardware https://sohl.substack.com/p/espresso-and-open-source-hardwar... yesterday night (posted on hn as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35320729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35320729), with a recent followup on the design. I was thinking how much I'd like a really open and hackable machine... although I'd prefer one for pourover or siphon extraction. It doesn't seem there is any project like that, but there seem to be a demand for it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
projektfu 3y ago
There's a lot of worrying, not just in this article, about parts of the system that are largely incidental to making espresso. The important parts are the filter that allows the coffee through at the right pressure and a way to keep everything at consistent temperature. There is not much difference between a $100 pump machine and the expensive cafe machine except that the expensive one has metal water jackets to keep everything warm. They also clean easily and produce consistent steam for milk. To me, the lever machines are really neat. It was the lever machine that started the trend in Italy, and the moka pot that made "espresso at home" a thing. Still, extraction is only one variable. The time a person spends agonizing over temperature and pressure could also be spent learning how to select, blend and roast beans, which can be done cheaply at home using a hot air popcorn popper.
- deliriumchn 3y ago
  > There is not much difference between a $100 pump machine and the expensive cafe machine There is, actually, a lot of differences. Expensive machines have that cheap ones don't: - multiple (2+) boilers so you can pour 2 caps/pour cap and steam/etc - a lot less noise - more consistent temperatures - preheating - as mentioned, more consistent steamers, but also precise control over them - built-in grinder (most of the times mediocre one, but better than none at all, albeit most people who follow this hobby just buy a separate one) - sometimes they can be controlled remotely - other smaller things Most importantly, they're usually a lot more reliable and well-built. But yes, taste-wise difference will not be substantial, its more like paying for your own comfort if you really want to invest in coffee. Hand lever brewers can be just as good for a fraction of a price if you don't mind to take extra steps. Makes it more fun for some people actually.
- zuppy 3y ago
  > There is not much difference between a $100 pump machine and the expensive cafe machine except that the expensive one has metal water jackets to keep everything warm i couldn't disagree more. there are many many differences between a cheap (100$ is cheap) machine and an expensive one. first of all, what is important is the pressure at the portafilter, not on the pump, you would say that those are the same, but they are not. second, it's important for that pressure to be stable. other things that are important: - temperature stability. even small things like a colder portafilter chan affect this, but what's most important is to control a fixed temperature and deliver that across the entire process. - the quality of the filter basket (a precision filter from companies like IMS & co). this helps with consistent extraction and minimises the chance for channelling to occur. - having a way to do a pre-infusion - being able to change the temperature and pressure in order to accommodate various kinds of coffee and tastes - etc (i can go on for ages with differences, like dual vs single boiler, milk vs no milk, rotary vs vibration pump etc). it's like saying a ferrari and a ford are the same because both of them have 4 wheels. yes, you can make espresso without any of those, but saying there are no differences is not true. with skill and an expensive machine you can do a great espresso (or buy a Decent, you can do that without the skill if you don't want mess with changing variables, but still the output is great. with skill, the sky is the limit)
xtiansimon 3y ago
Hmmm. I was a teen in the late 1980’s and I recall vividly a Steam Punk espresso machine I saw at a SOMA art gallery in San Francisco. It had a volleyball size spherical steam chamber heated by a propane wok burner. I’m fuzzy about the connection to a smallish brew chamber with a foot long lever arm. It was all a play on scale. The whole setup was somehow a unified whole out of a Miyazaki anime. DIY meets art. Would be thrilled to see that device again compared to my memory palace.
- mastax 3y ago
  A different machine in a similar vein: https://youtu.be/v4QyfElo1fs https://youtu.be/v4QyfElo1fs
sva_ 3y ago
You can get a delonghi dedica ec685 for around 150 euro, 100 on sale, which can be modded to make very good espresso. Cool project though.
- myspy 3y ago
  The point where everything has to come together for me is a setup for Cappuccinos where I can make 4 in a row without much hassle and great quality.
  - propter_hoc 3y ago
    You would need a dual boiler for this. IMO the best value dual boiler on the market is the Breville dual boiler. Alternatively there are standalone milk frothing devices that might suit your needs while allowing you to buy a cheaper espresso machine.
    - newaccount74 3y ago
      A single boiler/dual circuit design also works well for cappucinos. They are cheaper than dual boilers and heat up quicker. The tradeoff is less consistent temperature from shot to shot, but if you are diluting your coffee with milk anyway...
    - pier25 3y ago
      Hx machines are also fine.
- andai 3y ago
  How in depth are the modifications?
- pier25 3y ago
  Single boiler machines are a pain if you want to more than 1 espresso drink with milk.
killerstorm 3y ago
Does espresso actually taste better than what you get out of Aeropress or pourover?
- neogodless 3y ago
  It's a much richer coffee; feels more substantial in your mouth.
- jebarker 3y ago
  I think so. My daily driver for coffee is a Chemex since I can make enough for two in about 5 mins. I use reasonably fresh roasted beans I grind right before making the coffee. But whenever I get a good espresso based drink I recognize the step up in quality.
- dm270 3y ago
  That is completely up to your personal taste. I personally like both. Sometimes it's nice having an espresso in the sun. Other times I prefer taking fifteen minutes for a nice hot pourover
- orangepurple 3y ago
  It is not comparable. The beverage is quite different. So many people have had badly made espressos in the past they may think they don't like or care for it. Properly made espresso brings out flavors and smells which are not extractable with the Aeropress. The extreme case is the extraction of fruity flavors from a specific class of light roasts. You can not do it with Aeropress. I have a manually operated press as my espresso maker (Espresso Forge) and I only use Aeropress while traveling.
- ubermonkey 3y ago
  It's a different beverage. That may sound precious or twee to you but the flavors of the same beans prepared in these three ways will be different; there's no other way to describe it. Espresso is going to be more intense, probably sweeter, and stronger. Pourover is typically brighter and less intense, but obviously you drink more of it. When I make filter coffee, I prefer pourover. I do not care for Aeropress coffee or its sibling French press; for me, the mouth feel and flavor are inferior to other brewing methods, but obviously this is a preference thing.
dazhbog 3y ago
I've been buying cups of coffee on and off from coffee shops for years. Each cup was 2-4USD. Sometimes i also did pourovers but that shit took forever. Finally got a used Delongi bean to cup for less than $200 and my god what I've been missing. I also discovered that, for me, reducing the amount of water that passes through the coffee puck for each shot makes the coffee so creamy and less acidic.
- koolba 3y ago
  Which machine did you get?
  - dazhbog 3y ago
    Got a used Delonghi Magnifica Start
- baldeagle 3y ago
  This is call a 'ristretto shot'. In some of the starbucks reserve locations you can get a large volume of ground coffee and a ristretto shot, and it is very creamy without as much acid/tannins. Also, the ristretto shot is often used in flat whites - one of the main differences (the other lesser one being milk texture)
  - lock-the-spock 3y ago
    Starbucks is rather bad coffee though, without all the syrups you will notice it more. Honestly I have a bean to cup (Krups, previously also had DeLonghi) and prefer to take a small thermos along for decent lukewarm coffee all day rather than to pay outrageous amounts for mediocre coffee and a throwaway cup. Living in Italy or Portugal I'd probably not need that as there is excellent espresso at every corner, but most other countries it's hit and miss and the Anglosphere generally just bad coffee.
    - ajkjk 3y ago
      Trendy cities in the US tend to have great coffee everywhere nowadays. Although I've noticed a slight backslide in this in the last few years :(
TomMasz 3y ago
Making espresso at home is one of those things that seems to lead directly to obsession. Keep that in mind should you decide to start.
- iscrewyou 3y ago
  Yupp! It’s very tempting to try to make this a hobby and then try to perfect it. But coffee is one thing that allows me to force myself out of the house and experience the community around me. It’s a $4 excuse but it’s a good reason to not be lazy about leaving the house.
mewse-hn 3y ago
Would love to get STLs + BOM for this
achr2 3y ago
I would be worried about carbonic acid production. What about a nitrogen charge instead? Could even improve creama.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Yes, he should use a nitrogen charger instead. The Mypressi Twist was a commercially available machine that used nitrogen chargers in a similar design and worked beautifully.
SergeAx 3y ago
My espresso craving is fully satisfied by the Nespresso capsule machine; the classic type, with capsule patent expired, not the newer Vertuo type. Original Nespresso capsules are 5-6 euro per pack of 10; non-originals from Illy or Lavazza are even cheaper at about 40 cents per shot. Entry-level machines are as cheap as 100 euro, for 200-300 you will get semi- or fully-auto, plus some features like milk frother. The primary advantage here is reproducibility and ease of use: insert the capsule, check the water level, push the button, and here you go. Some espresso aficionados with 1000 EUR machines and 400 EUR grinders tried to impress me with their setups. Still, I honestly cannot taste the difference unless they use special Arabica roasts with unbearable acidity, which sadly has become increasingly popular nowadays.
- romafirst3 3y ago
  have you tried instant coffee? Nestle have a very good "gold blend" for coffee aficionados.
  - demondemidi 3y ago
    the best for backpacking! and i say that as a radical coffee snob.
- demondemidi 3y ago
  The new spinning Nespresso is a lot worse than the original. Rotary extraction makes a watery americano with foam, not crema. The original is really nice to find in Euro hotel rooms, but most Euro hotels have quality espresso machines in the lobby.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I have a commercially available handheld espresso machine that is no longer in production that has a similar design. I'm blanking on the name of it (edit: found it, the Mypressi Twist: https://coolhunting.com/food-drink/twist-espresso/ https://coolhunting.com/food-drink/twist-espresso/), it kinda looks like a little black mallet - sphere at one end where you put the ground coffee and water, and the handle is where you insert nitrous canisters (whip cream chargers) for pressure. If I searched for a while on Home Barista I'm sure I could find it - it got great reviews there. You get 4 shots for each charger. It's really a fantastic little device! To the original author of this post, I'd definitely recommend using whip cream chargers instead of CO2. They're usually cheaper, and you don't have to worry about the acidity concerns you bring up in your post.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- daniel_reetz 3y ago
  this is cool, how did it heat the water, if at all? Just add boiling water?
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Yes, you just add boiling water: once to preheat it, and then once to pull the shit. Espresso is normally pulled around 200 F, so it ends up being right around the appropriate temperature.
boomskats 3y ago
I have a huge Rocket espresso machine that I haven't used for 3-4 years, ever since I bought my Cafelat Robot. Honestly, I appreciate the engineering in this post but it's just not necessary given how good the Robot already is. The manual control makes it possible to do flow profiling with something like a Timamore Nano scale, by adjusting pressure in real time according to the flow rate reading on the scale. I've been making and drinking espresso for a long time and nothing comes close to the flow-profiled spro I've made using this method.
- ruph123 3y ago
  Will that scale fit under the robot?
  - boomskats 3y ago
    It's a couple of mm too wide, it fits at an angle. But it works well.
- titanomachy 3y ago
  The DIY version is still way cheaper.
ruph123 3y ago
It is so interesting to me how the marketing of flair and ROK (but mostly flair) drive the amount of coverage they get online in terms of reviews and discussions whereas the Cafelat gets almost nothing. It sure has flaws (the lever hands and the awkwardly positioned pressure gauge) but not needing to preheat the brew chamber is such a big win, it is clearly the better product. To this day James Hoffman has only one crappy video about the Cafelat, which is not even a polished review and rather a first look. But he has a few highly polished flair videos and discusses their ridiculous electricly preheated pro versions to death. (Without ever really seriously comparing it against the Cafelat)
- everybodyknows 3y ago
  Ships from the UK: https://www.cafelat.co.uk/ https://www.cafelat.co.uk/
  - romafirst3 3y ago
    Hoffman is a joke and is not respected by anyone in the coffee industry, he's a pretentious twat and exactly the opposite of what coffee needs. Most content you see online is pay-to-play so if you spend more money you get more content.
    - ruph123 3y ago
      Who is respected in the coffee industry? I like his often scientific approach to coffee, diving into the data, papers, etc. He is very methological.
      - romafirst3 3y ago
        Anette Moldvaer who founded Square Mile with him (I think they were a couple) is the coffee person behind it. She is the roaster and coffee person, he is the frontman/salesperson. Scientists have a hypothesis and then test that hypothesis, this isn't what he does. You want a scientific approach try these guys https://socraticcoffee.com/ https://socraticcoffee.com/ they do a reasonably good job.
stephen_g 3y ago
It’s funny, I know it’s a silly idea (I mean, I literally have an ex-commercial espresso machine plumbed-in in the kitchen) but the idea of making my own espresso machine has also always fascinated me. Designing a pressure vessel (as an electronic designer that can find my way around solid modelling CAD well enough) for steam is scary though, although just doing the espresso but wouldn’t be too dangerous.
rabbits_2002 3y ago
Wow he says espresso machines produce 131 psi thats nuts. Can they explode?
slotrans 3y ago
Impressive that this works. It's so small! Also: absolute endorsement for anything and everything James Hoffmann
notorandit 3y ago
Why not trying a moka? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot
- qbasic_forever 3y ago
  Moka pots don't make espresso, they don't get up to the pressure required for espresso-level extraction. They're still quite good and I prefer them over drip brew for most coffees.
cryptonector 3y ago
Needs a pressure regulator to make it safe.
jppope 3y ago
I'm actually totally fine with the moka pot, but can't seem to figure out a way to properly froth + heat milk... any suggestions?
- demondemidi 3y ago
  https://bellmanespresso.com/products/bellman-stovetop-steamer-50ss https://bellmanespresso.com/products/bellman-stovetop-steame...
- roflyear 3y ago
  maybe not "properly" but you can use a frenchpress. https://coffeeatthree.com/froth-milk-french-press/ https://coffeeatthree.com/froth-milk-french-press/
- llbeansandrice 3y ago
  I'm a big fan of using a glass french press. Put the milk in and heat it in the microwave (takes some fiddling and a thermometer but once you have a recipe down for you it works great) and then using a technique like this to froth the milk [0] [0] https://youtu.be/ZgIVfU0xBjA?t=641 https://youtu.be/ZgIVfU0xBjA?t=641
demondemidi 3y ago
as someone who fell deep into the espresso hole over the past 8 years (from an $800 saeco to a $3000 profitec with a few in between), i see several problems with this. First, CO2 -WILL- enter the brew. There is no way to stop it. This will create carbonic acid and elevate the pH. Which absolutely will impact the flavor. Part of the extraction "dialing in" process is determining the dose, temperature, grind, and duration for a new bean (and as it ages). The last thing you want it so add more acidity to the flavor. Some people do like sour espresso, I do not, and I think I'm in the majority. Second, consistency of pressure. A CO2 canister output pressure changes with temperature and volume. An espresso machine uses a pump (and some a PID) to regulate this. Third, this thing will probably explode after a few weeks. You can't subject plastics to this type of pressure. But OP did suggest using metal in the next version. Fourth, health. Plastic + hot water is bad, add extreme pressure and it is even worse. Kick it up a notch using 3D printed plastic, which is a nowhere near food safe. I'm not too far into the "don't eat out of warm plastic" group, but i'm close. This would concern me. I think it is a cool build. But a Bialeti is sufficient if you don't want to drop thousands on espresso machinery. Also in the running, the early Nespresso designs, not the rotary one. Both will get you into "americano" territory.
- Johnny555 3y ago
  >Fourth, health. Plastic + hot water is bad, add extreme pressure and it is even worse. Kick it up a notch using 3D printed plastic, which is a nowhere near food safe. I'm not too far into the "don't eat out of warm plastic" group, but i'm close. This would concern me. It doesn’t look like the coffee or water touches the plastic, it goes into a metal Cafelat Robot basket then is tamped with a metal screen on top.
  - demondemidi 3y ago
    The screen in between the filter and the chamber top is to prevent grounds from entering up into the chamber, but boiling pressurized water absolutely does flood the entire chamber including the plastic region. (It's not just a wall of pressurized water in nice straight lines, it's a mixture of solids liquids and gasses.) Eg: When I clean my E61 group head, I have to remove a fine mesh filter to get to the brass outflow fitting, and it is still covered with oils from the coffee.
rasengan0 3y ago
Co2 should be for pellet guns. Those canisters are a cost sink. after much research on YouTube, https://www.home-barista.com/ https://www.home-barista.com/ et al here are my notes should this be of use: Adventures with manual espresso to improve upon restriction from Fellows Prismo + body weight atop yoga brick (https://youtu.be/OMuDiq-Tvaw https://youtu.be/OMuDiq-Tvaw): All 3 methods employ tampering but no WDT, I do subscribe to a bottom paper filter in the basket (https://youtu.be/lPAel26Cw_A https://youtu.be/lPAel26Cw_A) These 3 gave great satisfactory results as judged by family when compared to cafe bought 1. https://www.joepresso.com/ https://www.joepresso.com/ with pressurized basket + body weight atop yoga brick Best in terms of short workflow and Americano, love the 'crema', fastest workflow and variety of experiment in and out of basket. 2. https://www.wacaco.com/products/picopresso https://www.wacaco.com/products/picopresso :-( preheating basket for best results, too small volume, good for travel, many small parts and steps = longer workflow 3. https://espressoforge.com/ https://espressoforge.com/ True excellent espresso, 58 mm baskets, uses more coffee than above methods 19g but clumsy with gasket adjustment, the greasing maintenance and need to preheat :-(, get the stainless steel, American made. 1. Joepresso is the daily driver, the cup is more fuller bodied with increased dwell time, more variety to mix light and dark roasts a la Philz 2. EspressoForge - true espresso, nuff said Weekends or more time = EspressoForge 3. picopresso - more for travel and sometimes not enough to unseat Aeropress Go for work EDC yeah, i gotta go to the office
seemaze 3y ago
Nothing has brought this guilty pragmatist as much joy-per-disposable-dollar as my offensively priced espresso machine.
lost_tourist 3y ago
I am an 80% person and I feel that a good quality italian moka pot (i prefer stainless steel) will get you the 80% for espresso. I'm sure this statement will infuriate some people though. I'm the same with with drip coffee. Get a good quality hand or ceramic cone bean grinder and just about any arabica coffee beans and you'll get to the 80% point with fresh ground coffee.

DIY Espresso (2020)

254 points by timvdalen 3y ago

Similar topic which might be of interest to HN readers is the [Gaggiuino](https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/ https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/), an open source project that adds a microcontroller to fairly affordable and mechanically simple domestic espresso machines, bringing them (almost) up to par with machines that cost 5x as much

benoliver999 3y ago
I love this sort of thing. But I learnt more about it from your comment vs the actual docs!
- dkdbejwi383 3y ago
  That might be one of the reasons they're trying to fundraise for a technical writer! I think the docs currently serve more as an installation & troubleshooting manual, and assumes some kind of familiarity.
kozhevnikov 3y ago
Lance Hedrick in his latest video (review of Decent XL) mentions that he got the Gaggiuino parts, but haven't got around to building it. I look forward to that video, whenever it comes out.
- dkdbejwi383 3y ago
  Yeah, I’m looking forward to his experience. I’ve been on the fence about whether to build a Gaggiuino myself, or sell the GCP and upgrade to a dual boiler machine. I don’t really care for flow profiling, but more stable temps and auto shot timing would be nice to have. And I make a lot of milk drinks so a DB would eliminate some of the wait time and need to flush the boiler.
yourusername 3y ago
A bit less DIY but similar functionally is the kit Shades of Coffee sells that also adds PID to the Gaggia classic. If you're just after the functionality of a cheap espresso machine with PID that takes a lot less effort.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  For even less effort buy a breville bambino.
  - dkdbejwi383 3y ago
    I've been tempted a few times, especially by the fast (efficient) heat up times. But I have a bunch of 58mm tampers, dosing funnels, etc, so the 54mm portalfilter is a bit offputting!
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      As a Barista express person going 54mm is a regret. 58 is more versatile and compatiable. But the recommendation was more for budget purchases. Breville also do a dual boiler with 58mm which is more expensive but if you live in Australia is amazingly good value (often $900AU which is about $600US). If you have more money still get a La Marzocco or whatever :-) My taste is to avoid fiddly things that need too much skill like heat exchangers etc.
- speed_spread 3y ago
  If anybody's interested in a packaged solution, Auber Instruments has been making PIDs and timers for Gaggia and Rancilio machines for a looong time. Their support is also top notch. (I use their PID with my Silvia) https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&sort=20a https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&s...
  - matthewmcg 3y ago
    I have one. It’s made my machine so much better. Once you find a grind setting and dose weight that works well for your beans, you get perfectly reproducible shots.
fodkodrasz 3y ago
The site would definitely need a rework based on the input from someone totally unfamiliar with the project. I cannot know from the opening page, what coffee machines the mod is for, but I can see that an STM32 or an arduino nano and some other parts would be needed. Not really informative, no pictures on the opening page to show something like before/after, to showcase the benefits, etc. Yet there is a rickroll... This is not really sympathetic, but yeah, I can see the begging icon (support paying for a professional technical writer)... but this is also really backwards in my opinion. First you should sell the project to me, then ask for donation. While the engineering contents might be great, the presentation is very low quality, to put it politely.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  It’s only for a Gaggia. It’s one of those projects that you only stumble into if you already have a Gaggia.
  - blueblob 3y ago
    As someone that's been looking into it, it's not just for the Gaggia. It's also for some Silvia models and they have a small list of others that people have gotten it to work for. The list is, unfortunately, on discord and the discord server has some really petty rules and a lot of superiority complexes.
- spdif899 3y ago
  I feel the same, as someone who has a Gaggia Classic collecting dust and has long considered splurging on a near-$1000 option because I want all these features... This is so vaguely written as to seem far more daunting than it probably should, it's unclear how much money or time it would cost me, I don't even know where to start with it. Cool idea, but totally unapproachable to someone without extensive related background.
  - yeswecatan 3y ago
    If you're in the Bay Area I'd love to take the Gaggia off your hands :)
agloe_dreams 3y ago
I own a Gaggia Classic that this mod is for and I'm a little unsure of calling a nearly $500 machine + DIY 'affordable'
- bondarchuk 3y ago
  That's less than a year of 1 takeaway coffee a day.
  - agloe_dreams 3y ago
    Before the $200 grinder, and the ~$200-300 of quality coffee beans in a year. Meanwhile, one can also get a temp-controlled kettle, a V60, a years supply of filters, and a hand grinder for ~$80. Skip the temp control and hand grinder and you are down to $30 or less. It is better than daily takeout, sure..but lets not pretend it is just a randomly affordable purchase for most when brewing non-espresso is far cheaper for good quality. Trust me, I know, I spent the money on mine. Love it, for sure...but is every bit a luxury good.
    - bondarchuk 3y ago
      I was assuming the takeout coffee is espresso. If so it's not fair to compare to a non-espresso alternative imho. Now for really affordable (almost-)espresso there's always the blade grinder + moka pot, of course. (anyway "affordable" is highly subjective ofc so what does it even really matter :))

SturgeonsLaw 3y ago

Gotta admit the combo of 3D printed parts, high pressure and hot water makes me a little nervous but that looks like a very cool device

wwykeham 3y ago
There's an important extra ingredient that you didn't specify: FEA. He did a proper finite element analysis, which is the only way that I would be willing to be in the same room as a 3D printed pressure vessel. Temperature was interesting though. I assume it partially because the hot water was mostly in contact with metal rather than plastic. I don't know what he printed it from but ABS's melting point[1] is only just above water boiling point. We've got a UV cured 3D printer at work (projet) which has some much better temperature properties. [1] Technically "glass transition temperature" if you want be all materials-science about it
- beAbU 3y ago
  I'm quite certain they conducted FEA on the Titan DSV's hull. And look how that turned out.
  - speed_spread 3y ago
    They then also proceeded to _repeatedly_ exceed the design parameters (depth) that FEA had been performed with. You can't beat stupid.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    I, too, thought of the Titan when I saw that photo of all the leaks under only espresso PSI.
- criddell 3y ago
  Modeling with FEA is great but I wonder if he also did a fatigue analysis. It might not blow up the first time, but will it blow up three years later after the parts have been pressurized and thermally cycled 1000 times?

frognumber 3y ago

This is nice. If I were doing it, my design would consist of: (1) A bike pump (goes up to >200 PSI) (2) A pressure tank (3) Two valves I would pump up the tank to ~130PSI, getting my morning exercise in. I would exhaust it through the coffee. If I wanted to get fancy, I might have an extra intermediate stage so I can use fresh air, rather than air which has been through my bike pump. I'd like to be able to buy something like (any) of these. My requirements: - Cheap - Reliable - Makes good coffee Nice-to-haves: - Compact Anti-requirements (which should make this possible): - Fast to use and practical in a fast-paced environment. I make one cup of coffee a day, and it's a ritual. I'm okay with this taking a while, needing to work a bike pump, or whatnot. Slow is okay.

andreareina 3y ago
I don't know if the reservoir is big enough but some pumps for tubeless tires do come with an integral tank for an initial rush of air to pop the bead in place.
dale_glass 3y ago
Get yourself a lever machine? It's an espresso machine that's fully manual. You create pressure by using a lever. Water is manually poured in. Cheapness is hard to have in a product that's big, heavy and involves big chunks of metal, but on the good side a well made one should last forever -- nothing much that can go wrong, and it's a purely mechanical device that can be taken apart.
- jnovek 3y ago
  +1 for a lever! I found a busted up old La Pavoni years ago, replaced all the seals and it’s been good to me ever since. There’s a bit of art to pulling a shot on a lever but once you get used to it, it’s a really fun way to make your coffee every day.
  - sudb 3y ago
    Another happy La Pavoni owner here! I was originally after a totally manual lever machine but found a great deal (~£200) on a second hand La Pavoni in miraculously good condition and couldn't be happier (apart from the occasional burned knuckle). Readily available spare parts and lack of any serious electronics means that hopefully this thing should last me a lifetime. My one recommended upgrade is a compatibly bottomless portafilter + 20g basket.

avidphantasm 3y ago

Just buy a Flair.

jcfrei 3y ago

So which espresso making device does HN prefer? I've bought myself a Kamira but looking to try out others as well.

seanhunter 3y ago
Firstly I would say that the grinder makes an outsize difference relative to cost so I would strongly recommend you first invest in something like a Mahlkohning Vario (this is what I have as a present from my lovely wife who just by pure coincidence also likes nice coffee). Then I have a friend who is an ex-high-end-barista and gigantic coffee snob (like coffee snob's coffee snob) and insists that once you have a good grinder it's more important to get a reverse osmosis filter than a high-end espresso machine. Make of that what you will, but if you want to investigate that he swears by this book[1] and having drunk coffee at Colonna and Smalls in Bath (owned by one of the guys who wrote the book) I can say he might be on to something. Certainly every cafe that does amazing coffee has an RO filter. I have an ECM entry-level machine and it's great. I dont' need (or ever use) the frothing parts unless we have guests but they do the thing they are supposed to and the main coffee bit works great. I wish it could get a bit more pressure but it makes a good cup of espresso if I tamp well and use nice beans (which, you should always use nice beans. There's really no excuse for that one). In the UK you can get great home coffee equipment as well as advice from Bella Barista[2]. Probably most countries have a place like that but even if you're not in the UK I would look at what they have as being a good starting point. [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/water-for-coffee/maxwell-colonna-dashwood/christopher-hendon/9781782806080 https://www.waterstones.com/book/water-for-coffee/maxwell-co... [2] https://bellabarista.co.uk/ https://bellabarista.co.uk/
- matwood 3y ago
  I would agree with your friend. I typically do pour over, and getting a nice grinder was a huge upgrade for the coffee flavor. I also only use filtered water. Next is fresher beans. Frowned upon I'm sure, but for espresso a machine like Nespresso or L'Or has worked fine in a pinch.
- drittich 3y ago
  I have a Mazzer Mini grinder that's pretty old and I suspect it is the weak link in the chain (paired with Rocket espresso machine). Is there an easy way to tell if the grinder is doing its job well, e.g., some reliable way to examine the grain size?

eur0pa 3y ago

I find it somewhat cute that according to this article, $500 is "grows on trees" kind of money. In the espresso hobby, $500 is barely enough to get a decent grinder.

fellowmartian 3y ago
DF64 is $350. Haven’t tried it myself (I have a Sette), but if I was buying now I’d go for DF64, flat burr is nice.
- ctroein89 3y ago
  I love my DF64. I found it on sale, and informed my wife that it'd be her Christmas and birthday present to me: totally worth it. Even with a $100 DeLonghi EC155, the difference from the grinder is incredible.
njovin 3y ago
For anyone who is discouraged by this (accurate) comment, don't discount the utility of a manual grinder. You can get a 1Zpresso which is a beautiful, durable piece of equipment for a fraction of the cost of an automatic grinder and it takes all of 30 seconds to grind your own beans to perfection.
- flyingshoes 3y ago
  The KINGrinder KX is a cheaper alternative to the 1Zpresso line. But yeah, definitely don't discount manual grinders. But note grinding for espresso with a handgrinder is... an exercise. lol.
- eur0pa 3y ago
  1Z just issued a recall for the chipping burrs affair on their X-Ultra line. They went for cheaper alloys and people ended up with metal shavings in their cup. Old grinders seem to be fine. I’d wait a hot second before getting a 1Z right now
demondemidi 3y ago

woolion 3y ago

Interesting, I was looking back at https://sohl.substack.com/p/espresso-and-open-source-hardware https://sohl.substack.com/p/espresso-and-open-source-hardwar... yesterday night (posted on hn as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35320729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35320729), with a recent followup on the design. I was thinking how much I'd like a really open and hackable machine... although I'd prefer one for pourover or siphon extraction. It doesn't seem there is any project like that, but there seem to be a demand for it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

projektfu 3y ago

There's a lot of worrying, not just in this article, about parts of the system that are largely incidental to making espresso. The important parts are the filter that allows the coffee through at the right pressure and a way to keep everything at consistent temperature. There is not much difference between a $100 pump machine and the expensive cafe machine except that the expensive one has metal water jackets to keep everything warm. They also clean easily and produce consistent steam for milk. To me, the lever machines are really neat. It was the lever machine that started the trend in Italy, and the moka pot that made "espresso at home" a thing. Still, extraction is only one variable. The time a person spends agonizing over temperature and pressure could also be spent learning how to select, blend and roast beans, which can be done cheaply at home using a hot air popcorn popper.

deliriumchn 3y ago
> There is not much difference between a $100 pump machine and the expensive cafe machine There is, actually, a lot of differences. Expensive machines have that cheap ones don't: - multiple (2+) boilers so you can pour 2 caps/pour cap and steam/etc - a lot less noise - more consistent temperatures - preheating - as mentioned, more consistent steamers, but also precise control over them - built-in grinder (most of the times mediocre one, but better than none at all, albeit most people who follow this hobby just buy a separate one) - sometimes they can be controlled remotely - other smaller things Most importantly, they're usually a lot more reliable and well-built. But yes, taste-wise difference will not be substantial, its more like paying for your own comfort if you really want to invest in coffee. Hand lever brewers can be just as good for a fraction of a price if you don't mind to take extra steps. Makes it more fun for some people actually.
zuppy 3y ago
> There is not much difference between a $100 pump machine and the expensive cafe machine except that the expensive one has metal water jackets to keep everything warm i couldn't disagree more. there are many many differences between a cheap (100$ is cheap) machine and an expensive one. first of all, what is important is the pressure at the portafilter, not on the pump, you would say that those are the same, but they are not. second, it's important for that pressure to be stable. other things that are important: - temperature stability. even small things like a colder portafilter chan affect this, but what's most important is to control a fixed temperature and deliver that across the entire process. - the quality of the filter basket (a precision filter from companies like IMS & co). this helps with consistent extraction and minimises the chance for channelling to occur. - having a way to do a pre-infusion - being able to change the temperature and pressure in order to accommodate various kinds of coffee and tastes - etc (i can go on for ages with differences, like dual vs single boiler, milk vs no milk, rotary vs vibration pump etc). it's like saying a ferrari and a ford are the same because both of them have 4 wheels. yes, you can make espresso without any of those, but saying there are no differences is not true. with skill and an expensive machine you can do a great espresso (or buy a Decent, you can do that without the skill if you don't want mess with changing variables, but still the output is great. with skill, the sky is the limit)

xtiansimon 3y ago

Hmmm. I was a teen in the late 1980’s and I recall vividly a Steam Punk espresso machine I saw at a SOMA art gallery in San Francisco. It had a volleyball size spherical steam chamber heated by a propane wok burner. I’m fuzzy about the connection to a smallish brew chamber with a foot long lever arm. It was all a play on scale. The whole setup was somehow a unified whole out of a Miyazaki anime. DIY meets art. Would be thrilled to see that device again compared to my memory palace.

mastax 3y ago
A different machine in a similar vein: https://youtu.be/v4QyfElo1fs https://youtu.be/v4QyfElo1fs

sva_ 3y ago

You can get a delonghi dedica ec685 for around 150 euro, 100 on sale, which can be modded to make very good espresso. Cool project though.

myspy 3y ago
The point where everything has to come together for me is a setup for Cappuccinos where I can make 4 in a row without much hassle and great quality.
- propter_hoc 3y ago
  You would need a dual boiler for this. IMO the best value dual boiler on the market is the Breville dual boiler. Alternatively there are standalone milk frothing devices that might suit your needs while allowing you to buy a cheaper espresso machine.
  - newaccount74 3y ago
    A single boiler/dual circuit design also works well for cappucinos. They are cheaper than dual boilers and heat up quicker. The tradeoff is less consistent temperature from shot to shot, but if you are diluting your coffee with milk anyway...
  - pier25 3y ago
    Hx machines are also fine.
andai 3y ago
How in depth are the modifications?
pier25 3y ago
Single boiler machines are a pain if you want to more than 1 espresso drink with milk.

killerstorm 3y ago

Does espresso actually taste better than what you get out of Aeropress or pourover?

neogodless 3y ago
It's a much richer coffee; feels more substantial in your mouth.
jebarker 3y ago
I think so. My daily driver for coffee is a Chemex since I can make enough for two in about 5 mins. I use reasonably fresh roasted beans I grind right before making the coffee. But whenever I get a good espresso based drink I recognize the step up in quality.
dm270 3y ago
That is completely up to your personal taste. I personally like both. Sometimes it's nice having an espresso in the sun. Other times I prefer taking fifteen minutes for a nice hot pourover
orangepurple 3y ago
It is not comparable. The beverage is quite different. So many people have had badly made espressos in the past they may think they don't like or care for it. Properly made espresso brings out flavors and smells which are not extractable with the Aeropress. The extreme case is the extraction of fruity flavors from a specific class of light roasts. You can not do it with Aeropress. I have a manually operated press as my espresso maker (Espresso Forge) and I only use Aeropress while traveling.
ubermonkey 3y ago
It's a different beverage. That may sound precious or twee to you but the flavors of the same beans prepared in these three ways will be different; there's no other way to describe it. Espresso is going to be more intense, probably sweeter, and stronger. Pourover is typically brighter and less intense, but obviously you drink more of it. When I make filter coffee, I prefer pourover. I do not care for Aeropress coffee or its sibling French press; for me, the mouth feel and flavor are inferior to other brewing methods, but obviously this is a preference thing.

dazhbog 3y ago

I've been buying cups of coffee on and off from coffee shops for years. Each cup was 2-4USD. Sometimes i also did pourovers but that shit took forever. Finally got a used Delongi bean to cup for less than $200 and my god what I've been missing. I also discovered that, for me, reducing the amount of water that passes through the coffee puck for each shot makes the coffee so creamy and less acidic.

koolba 3y ago
Which machine did you get?
- dazhbog 3y ago
  Got a used Delonghi Magnifica Start
baldeagle 3y ago
This is call a 'ristretto shot'. In some of the starbucks reserve locations you can get a large volume of ground coffee and a ristretto shot, and it is very creamy without as much acid/tannins. Also, the ristretto shot is often used in flat whites - one of the main differences (the other lesser one being milk texture)
- lock-the-spock 3y ago
  Starbucks is rather bad coffee though, without all the syrups you will notice it more. Honestly I have a bean to cup (Krups, previously also had DeLonghi) and prefer to take a small thermos along for decent lukewarm coffee all day rather than to pay outrageous amounts for mediocre coffee and a throwaway cup. Living in Italy or Portugal I'd probably not need that as there is excellent espresso at every corner, but most other countries it's hit and miss and the Anglosphere generally just bad coffee.
  - ajkjk 3y ago
    Trendy cities in the US tend to have great coffee everywhere nowadays. Although I've noticed a slight backslide in this in the last few years :(

TomMasz 3y ago

Making espresso at home is one of those things that seems to lead directly to obsession. Keep that in mind should you decide to start.

iscrewyou 3y ago
Yupp! It’s very tempting to try to make this a hobby and then try to perfect it. But coffee is one thing that allows me to force myself out of the house and experience the community around me. It’s a $4 excuse but it’s a good reason to not be lazy about leaving the house.

mewse-hn 3y ago

Would love to get STLs + BOM for this

achr2 3y ago

I would be worried about carbonic acid production. What about a nitrogen charge instead? Could even improve creama.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Yes, he should use a nitrogen charger instead. The Mypressi Twist was a commercially available machine that used nitrogen chargers in a similar design and worked beautifully.

SergeAx 3y ago

My espresso craving is fully satisfied by the Nespresso capsule machine; the classic type, with capsule patent expired, not the newer Vertuo type. Original Nespresso capsules are 5-6 euro per pack of 10; non-originals from Illy or Lavazza are even cheaper at about 40 cents per shot. Entry-level machines are as cheap as 100 euro, for 200-300 you will get semi- or fully-auto, plus some features like milk frother. The primary advantage here is reproducibility and ease of use: insert the capsule, check the water level, push the button, and here you go. Some espresso aficionados with 1000 EUR machines and 400 EUR grinders tried to impress me with their setups. Still, I honestly cannot taste the difference unless they use special Arabica roasts with unbearable acidity, which sadly has become increasingly popular nowadays.

romafirst3 3y ago
have you tried instant coffee? Nestle have a very good "gold blend" for coffee aficionados.
- demondemidi 3y ago
  the best for backpacking! and i say that as a radical coffee snob.
demondemidi 3y ago
The new spinning Nespresso is a lot worse than the original. Rotary extraction makes a watery americano with foam, not crema. The original is really nice to find in Euro hotel rooms, but most Euro hotels have quality espresso machines in the lobby.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I have a commercially available handheld espresso machine that is no longer in production that has a similar design. I'm blanking on the name of it (edit: found it, the Mypressi Twist: https://coolhunting.com/food-drink/twist-espresso/ https://coolhunting.com/food-drink/twist-espresso/), it kinda looks like a little black mallet - sphere at one end where you put the ground coffee and water, and the handle is where you insert nitrous canisters (whip cream chargers) for pressure. If I searched for a while on Home Barista I'm sure I could find it - it got great reviews there. You get 4 shots for each charger. It's really a fantastic little device! To the original author of this post, I'd definitely recommend using whip cream chargers instead of CO2. They're usually cheaper, and you don't have to worry about the acidity concerns you bring up in your post.

deleted 3y ago
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daniel_reetz 3y ago
this is cool, how did it heat the water, if at all? Just add boiling water?
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Yes, you just add boiling water: once to preheat it, and then once to pull the shit. Espresso is normally pulled around 200 F, so it ends up being right around the appropriate temperature.

boomskats 3y ago

I have a huge Rocket espresso machine that I haven't used for 3-4 years, ever since I bought my Cafelat Robot. Honestly, I appreciate the engineering in this post but it's just not necessary given how good the Robot already is. The manual control makes it possible to do flow profiling with something like a Timamore Nano scale, by adjusting pressure in real time according to the flow rate reading on the scale. I've been making and drinking espresso for a long time and nothing comes close to the flow-profiled spro I've made using this method.

ruph123 3y ago
Will that scale fit under the robot?
- boomskats 3y ago
  It's a couple of mm too wide, it fits at an angle. But it works well.
titanomachy 3y ago
The DIY version is still way cheaper.

ruph123 3y ago

It is so interesting to me how the marketing of flair and ROK (but mostly flair) drive the amount of coverage they get online in terms of reviews and discussions whereas the Cafelat gets almost nothing. It sure has flaws (the lever hands and the awkwardly positioned pressure gauge) but not needing to preheat the brew chamber is such a big win, it is clearly the better product. To this day James Hoffman has only one crappy video about the Cafelat, which is not even a polished review and rather a first look. But he has a few highly polished flair videos and discusses their ridiculous electricly preheated pro versions to death. (Without ever really seriously comparing it against the Cafelat)

everybodyknows 3y ago
Ships from the UK: https://www.cafelat.co.uk/ https://www.cafelat.co.uk/
- romafirst3 3y ago
  Hoffman is a joke and is not respected by anyone in the coffee industry, he's a pretentious twat and exactly the opposite of what coffee needs. Most content you see online is pay-to-play so if you spend more money you get more content.
  - ruph123 3y ago
    Who is respected in the coffee industry? I like his often scientific approach to coffee, diving into the data, papers, etc. He is very methological.
    - romafirst3 3y ago
      Anette Moldvaer who founded Square Mile with him (I think they were a couple) is the coffee person behind it. She is the roaster and coffee person, he is the frontman/salesperson. Scientists have a hypothesis and then test that hypothesis, this isn't what he does. You want a scientific approach try these guys https://socraticcoffee.com/ https://socraticcoffee.com/ they do a reasonably good job.

stephen_g 3y ago

It’s funny, I know it’s a silly idea (I mean, I literally have an ex-commercial espresso machine plumbed-in in the kitchen) but the idea of making my own espresso machine has also always fascinated me. Designing a pressure vessel (as an electronic designer that can find my way around solid modelling CAD well enough) for steam is scary though, although just doing the espresso but wouldn’t be too dangerous.

rabbits_2002 3y ago

Wow he says espresso machines produce 131 psi thats nuts. Can they explode?

slotrans 3y ago

Impressive that this works. It's so small! Also: absolute endorsement for anything and everything James Hoffmann

notorandit 3y ago

Why not trying a moka? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot

qbasic_forever 3y ago
Moka pots don't make espresso, they don't get up to the pressure required for espresso-level extraction. They're still quite good and I prefer them over drip brew for most coffees.

cryptonector 3y ago

Needs a pressure regulator to make it safe.

jppope 3y ago

I'm actually totally fine with the moka pot, but can't seem to figure out a way to properly froth + heat milk... any suggestions?

demondemidi 3y ago
https://bellmanespresso.com/products/bellman-stovetop-steamer-50ss https://bellmanespresso.com/products/bellman-stovetop-steame...
roflyear 3y ago
maybe not "properly" but you can use a frenchpress. https://coffeeatthree.com/froth-milk-french-press/ https://coffeeatthree.com/froth-milk-french-press/
llbeansandrice 3y ago
I'm a big fan of using a glass french press. Put the milk in and heat it in the microwave (takes some fiddling and a thermometer but once you have a recipe down for you it works great) and then using a technique like this to froth the milk [0] [0] https://youtu.be/ZgIVfU0xBjA?t=641 https://youtu.be/ZgIVfU0xBjA?t=641

demondemidi 3y ago

as someone who fell deep into the espresso hole over the past 8 years (from an $800 saeco to a $3000 profitec with a few in between), i see several problems with this. First, CO2 -WILL- enter the brew. There is no way to stop it. This will create carbonic acid and elevate the pH. Which absolutely will impact the flavor. Part of the extraction "dialing in" process is determining the dose, temperature, grind, and duration for a new bean (and as it ages). The last thing you want it so add more acidity to the flavor. Some people do like sour espresso, I do not, and I think I'm in the majority. Second, consistency of pressure. A CO2 canister output pressure changes with temperature and volume. An espresso machine uses a pump (and some a PID) to regulate this. Third, this thing will probably explode after a few weeks. You can't subject plastics to this type of pressure. But OP did suggest using metal in the next version. Fourth, health. Plastic + hot water is bad, add extreme pressure and it is even worse. Kick it up a notch using 3D printed plastic, which is a nowhere near food safe. I'm not too far into the "don't eat out of warm plastic" group, but i'm close. This would concern me. I think it is a cool build. But a Bialeti is sufficient if you don't want to drop thousands on espresso machinery. Also in the running, the early Nespresso designs, not the rotary one. Both will get you into "americano" territory.

Johnny555 3y ago
>Fourth, health. Plastic + hot water is bad, add extreme pressure and it is even worse. Kick it up a notch using 3D printed plastic, which is a nowhere near food safe. I'm not too far into the "don't eat out of warm plastic" group, but i'm close. This would concern me. It doesn’t look like the coffee or water touches the plastic, it goes into a metal Cafelat Robot basket then is tamped with a metal screen on top.
- demondemidi 3y ago
  The screen in between the filter and the chamber top is to prevent grounds from entering up into the chamber, but boiling pressurized water absolutely does flood the entire chamber including the plastic region. (It's not just a wall of pressurized water in nice straight lines, it's a mixture of solids liquids and gasses.) Eg: When I clean my E61 group head, I have to remove a fine mesh filter to get to the brass outflow fitting, and it is still covered with oils from the coffee.

rasengan0 3y ago

Co2 should be for pellet guns. Those canisters are a cost sink. after much research on YouTube, https://www.home-barista.com/ https://www.home-barista.com/ et al here are my notes should this be of use: Adventures with manual espresso to improve upon restriction from Fellows Prismo + body weight atop yoga brick (https://youtu.be/OMuDiq-Tvaw https://youtu.be/OMuDiq-Tvaw): All 3 methods employ tampering but no WDT, I do subscribe to a bottom paper filter in the basket (https://youtu.be/lPAel26Cw_A https://youtu.be/lPAel26Cw_A) These 3 gave great satisfactory results as judged by family when compared to cafe bought 1. https://www.joepresso.com/ https://www.joepresso.com/ with pressurized basket + body weight atop yoga brick Best in terms of short workflow and Americano, love the 'crema', fastest workflow and variety of experiment in and out of basket. 2. https://www.wacaco.com/products/picopresso https://www.wacaco.com/products/picopresso :-( preheating basket for best results, too small volume, good for travel, many small parts and steps = longer workflow 3. https://espressoforge.com/ https://espressoforge.com/ True excellent espresso, 58 mm baskets, uses more coffee than above methods 19g but clumsy with gasket adjustment, the greasing maintenance and need to preheat :-(, get the stainless steel, American made. 1. Joepresso is the daily driver, the cup is more fuller bodied with increased dwell time, more variety to mix light and dark roasts a la Philz 2. EspressoForge - true espresso, nuff said Weekends or more time = EspressoForge 3. picopresso - more for travel and sometimes not enough to unseat Aeropress Go for work EDC yeah, i gotta go to the office

seemaze 3y ago

Nothing has brought this guilty pragmatist as much joy-per-disposable-dollar as my offensively priced espresso machine.

lost_tourist 3y ago

I am an 80% person and I feel that a good quality italian moka pot (i prefer stainless steel) will get you the 80% for espresso. I'm sure this statement will infuriate some people though. I'm the same with with drip coffee. Get a good quality hand or ceramic cone bean grinder and just about any arabica coffee beans and you'll get to the 80% point with fresh ground coffee.