6 ms·

Squatters rights are completely insane and irrational in some places. in a large upstate NY city that rhymes with smahchester, an acquaintance of mine's mother

Squatters rights are completely insane and irrational in some places. in a large upstate NY city that rhymes with smahchester, an acquaintance of mine's mother died early in the era of covid. his crackhead brother traded this information for a fix and the dealer moved in uninvited. because of the eviction moratorium there was nothing he could do legally to remove the guy. attempts to brute force the eviction were met with potentially deadly force. after time it was no longer worth it to pay the property taxes and as such the house went into foreclosure and eventually was auctioned off. the real slap in the face was that the squatter won the auction. mind you this was in a not so nice area but still it illustrates how strange the law is around squatting can be. stealing a man's house is on the level of destroying his career. there should be laws protecting property owners, not the other way around. I suppose there is a bit of nuance to squatting that should be considered and may be valid, but those times are not the ones you hear about

lotsoweiners 3y ago
Hired goons are a thing and probably well worth the price to keep squatters away from your property.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Very illegal. You want to turn a civil matter into a criminal one, that’s how you do it.
  - pseudo0 3y ago
    If the squatter leaves to buy food and the locks get changed, it sounds like that would also be a civil matter.
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    So is breaking into someone's house, but that doesn't seem to he an issue for the courts. When the court system fails you, I believe you have a right to take matters into your own hands. The court system is created so that we don't start feuds, harm people above and beyond what's reasonable response to their action, prevent abuses. It's here to protect us so that we don't have to violently protect ourselves. When it fails to do so, what choice do you have? The court is an institution of civilization, when it fails we go back to the natural way.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Yes, very illegal also, if you can show it in time, best approach is to call 911 and say your house has been broken into. If the door is smashed or something, it will be obvious. But ya, we are approach “lawless enough that the law doesn’t help protect you against squatters” and “lawful enough that the law makes it very hard for you to act on your own against squatters.” Remember, you have financial things to lose, these people squatting generally don’t (besides their freedom, and they usually get out of any time).
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      "The landowning class tired of squatters and so created an extrajudicial vigilante crew to beat up those who don't own property" isn't the virtuous solution you think it is. Nor is it safe for the goon squad. If squaters start responding to such behavior by shooting on site anybody who tries to break into the building, the law will protect them because threat of bodily harm is more important than abuse of property ownership. And it should be. Ownership of real estate implies responsibilities to the community who are inextricably tied to the geographic proximity to that real estate. Don't own more than you can maintain. Don't own more than you can use. If you have entire groups of people coming into your property and setting up shop for months at a time without your knowledge, maybe you own too much. (Incidentally, that ethos applies to more than just squatting. The Catholic church in Philadelphia got fined a pile of money because they abandoned a church and failed to either sell it or pay the money to maintain it. It ended up with a water main break in the basement that nobody detected because nobody was on the property, and the water poured openly into the sewer system for months. The city find them for every drop of water that got wasted in that open pipe because that pipe was their responsibility; it was in their property).
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Many of us are worried just about going on vacation. Will I come home to an empty safe home after a two week trip abroad? Because it isn’t guaranteed anymore.
        shadowgovt 3y ago
- taylodl 3y ago
  "Hired goons" - upgrade to "Security." They can keep on eye on your place and notify the police if it appears someone is residing who shouldn't be there. As has been mentioned elsewhere, squatting laws only come into effect after so many days (where I live it's 30). It's not like you went away for a weekend trip, come back to squatters in your house, and you're now screwed. Doesn't work that way at all. Edit - confirmed with wife, who's a property manager. The key, at least in our state, is a property must be vacant before squatter rights applies, otherwise it's trespassing. Squatting then is a bigger concern for vacation homes, beach homes, and the like. What is considered vacant? Well, that varies by locale! Literally, YMMV.
shadowgovt 3y ago
In this case, there are two wrinkles in the story that make it not representative of the average situation: * COVID created an extremely unusual circumstance around residency law, one that we are not likely to see again in our lifetimes pending another virulent pandemic * The house (unless I misunderstood a detail of your story) wasn't stolen from its rightful owner... The rightful owner died. It's flow through the probate process was disrupted. But people have all kinds of opinions about how we will property in this country and you can definitely turn your head and squint and say "The only crime committed here is a dead woman's will was not respected, and a living person other than the one she would have chosen ended up with the house." Still, it does suck that the house went up to auction because fundamentally the people with the most claim to it can no longer afford to pay the state to maintain the right to that claim.
Bye_Felicia 3y ago
[flagged]

lotsoweiners 3y ago

Hired goons are a thing and probably well worth the price to keep squatters away from your property.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Very illegal. You want to turn a civil matter into a criminal one, that’s how you do it.
- pseudo0 3y ago
  If the squatter leaves to buy food and the locks get changed, it sounds like that would also be a civil matter.
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  So is breaking into someone's house, but that doesn't seem to he an issue for the courts. When the court system fails you, I believe you have a right to take matters into your own hands. The court system is created so that we don't start feuds, harm people above and beyond what's reasonable response to their action, prevent abuses. It's here to protect us so that we don't have to violently protect ourselves. When it fails to do so, what choice do you have? The court is an institution of civilization, when it fails we go back to the natural way.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Yes, very illegal also, if you can show it in time, best approach is to call 911 and say your house has been broken into. If the door is smashed or something, it will be obvious. But ya, we are approach “lawless enough that the law doesn’t help protect you against squatters” and “lawful enough that the law makes it very hard for you to act on your own against squatters.” Remember, you have financial things to lose, these people squatting generally don’t (besides their freedom, and they usually get out of any time).
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    "The landowning class tired of squatters and so created an extrajudicial vigilante crew to beat up those who don't own property" isn't the virtuous solution you think it is. Nor is it safe for the goon squad. If squaters start responding to such behavior by shooting on site anybody who tries to break into the building, the law will protect them because threat of bodily harm is more important than abuse of property ownership. And it should be. Ownership of real estate implies responsibilities to the community who are inextricably tied to the geographic proximity to that real estate. Don't own more than you can maintain. Don't own more than you can use. If you have entire groups of people coming into your property and setting up shop for months at a time without your knowledge, maybe you own too much. (Incidentally, that ethos applies to more than just squatting. The Catholic church in Philadelphia got fined a pile of money because they abandoned a church and failed to either sell it or pay the money to maintain it. It ended up with a water main break in the basement that nobody detected because nobody was on the property, and the water poured openly into the sewer system for months. The city find them for every drop of water that got wasted in that open pipe because that pipe was their responsibility; it was in their property).
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Many of us are worried just about going on vacation. Will I come home to an empty safe home after a two week trip abroad? Because it isn’t guaranteed anymore.
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
taylodl 3y ago
"Hired goons" - upgrade to "Security." They can keep on eye on your place and notify the police if it appears someone is residing who shouldn't be there. As has been mentioned elsewhere, squatting laws only come into effect after so many days (where I live it's 30). It's not like you went away for a weekend trip, come back to squatters in your house, and you're now screwed. Doesn't work that way at all. Edit - confirmed with wife, who's a property manager. The key, at least in our state, is a property must be vacant before squatter rights applies, otherwise it's trespassing. Squatting then is a bigger concern for vacation homes, beach homes, and the like. What is considered vacant? Well, that varies by locale! Literally, YMMV.

shadowgovt 3y ago

In this case, there are two wrinkles in the story that make it not representative of the average situation: * COVID created an extremely unusual circumstance around residency law, one that we are not likely to see again in our lifetimes pending another virulent pandemic * The house (unless I misunderstood a detail of your story) wasn't stolen from its rightful owner... The rightful owner died. It's flow through the probate process was disrupted. But people have all kinds of opinions about how we will property in this country and you can definitely turn your head and squint and say "The only crime committed here is a dead woman's will was not respected, and a living person other than the one she would have chosen ended up with the house." Still, it does suck that the house went up to auction because fundamentally the people with the most claim to it can no longer afford to pay the state to maintain the right to that claim.

Bye_Felicia 3y ago

[flagged]