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True, and it makes business sense in a rich country. But just like in parenting, this kind of experience and expectation can yield entitled personalities, which

True, and it makes business sense in a rich country. But just like in parenting, this kind of experience and expectation can yield entitled personalities, which is indeed a common stereotype of Americans abroad. Or see American students' attitudes towards their university. They also approach it with the same customer attitude, and fair enough, they do have to pay hefty sums.

doh 3y ago
I think that’s the crux of the point. Americans are trained to be demanding customers. Whatever is then packaged as a product/service for purchase, will be treated equally. As you pointed out, students pay a lot of money for their education in US. Shouldn’t they have a say in it? If that’s not good for the society, maybe it shouldn’t be sold as a product in the first place.
- bonoboTP 3y ago
  I leads quite far away. Americans are demanding customers which makes the service and products better in a way. But people are similarly also litigious, so everything a bit higher stakes will be ridiculously expensive. If little Timmy breaks a leg while with daycare corporation, the parents are likely to sue, because Healthcare is also a business etc etc. It all has its reason, it's just a whole different system and lifestyle and concerns than elsewhere (not to mention the whole thing around tips in certain service sectors). So while for me American students seem entitled, they'd see it as standing up for themselves. In Europe, where education is state subsidized, students are not customers, it's their responsibility to study well, as it is they who are being paid. "I'm a paying customer so you better give me good grades" just doesn't fly in that case.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Heh, that euro approach to education can create a real nightmare for Europeans moving to North America. US: “we require transcripts sent directly from the university” Euro university: “no, we don’t have a portal for students to request transcripts and mail them to any address they request. It’s the student’s responsibility to keep a copy of their own transcripts each year. [9 calls/emails later] If you reallyyyyyy need us to do something for you, fiiiiiine, you can pickup a copy at this office (except during summer). If you’re overseas, send a friend to pick it up, what’s the problem? What do you mean nobody but us can touch it and you can’t just send it to them yourself? Why are you being so difficult about this? This is way more than anybody else ever requires from us”
    - bonoboTP 3y ago
      I've never heard about such a concept. Do American universities offer that as a button click online? Do you mean transcripts to apply to grad school, or jobs in companies? Getting the university to mail something in my name to somewhere, for my own purposes seems nonsense from my European view. Like what do they have to do with a third party? Of course they will certify and stamp any documents that state objective facts about my studies (during opening hours, after waiting through a long queue). And probably if you explain the things and it sounds important like you git accepted at That said, things do differ between countries. In Hungary most universities switched from physical booklets where the profs had to physically sign each grade they gave, to an online system about 15 years ago. So no need to collect copies physically now. In Germany, universities vary in their practices but you can at least print out a proof of enrollment yourself which includes a verification code that third parties can check. But I think it's possible to get such things done in the end but it will need a lot of explanations and appearing in person.
      - mgkimsal 3y ago
        In 2012, I ordered my transcripts from my university (from the 90s) and they sent me a copy. I didn't ask them to send it anywhere else. I was expecting a fee, but there wasn't any (perhaps just because I was sending it to myself?). There was no portal to click, but I emailed in, and had a back and forth email with someone, then got it in the mail a couple weeks later.
      - lukas099 3y ago
        It was surprising to me too when I encountered it, but yes, at least at my college, in the rare instance that you needed an "Official Transcript", you filled out a form on a portal that included the address for it to be sent to. I think we got three for free and then they were like $15 a pop or something. I have no idea why they did this and did not just stamp/seal it and expect me to mail it myself.
        youainti 3y ago
        The goal is to prevent fraud. They don't want people passing fake transcripts.
nonethewiser 3y ago
> But just like in parenting, this kind of experience and expectation can yield entitled personalities, which is indeed a common stereotype of Americans abroad. Or see American students' attitudes towards their university. They also approach it with the same customer attitude, and fair enough, they do have to pay hefty sums. "The customer is always right" is more true in America than Europe.
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  First time I've seen someone saying that Americans have better taste than Europeans (j/k)
  - Paul-Craft 3y ago
    No need for "j/k" here. The original quote was something to the effect of "The customer is always right in matters of taste." It wasn't intended as a dictum to bend over backward to the breaking point and beyond in the name of "customer service."
    - eadler 3y ago
      Do you have a source for this? I often see people make this claim but can't find evidence that it was originally meant in the more limited sense.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Well, I think my tastes are better than everyone’s. That’s why they’re my tastes. But I actually have no idea what you’re saying. Have you heard the phrase “the customer is always right?” Im saying that attitude is more strongly held in the US.
    - IggleSniggle 3y ago
      I was referencing the phrase, "the customer is always right in matters of taste"
- 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tehwebguy 3y ago
Not for long — more and more of our returns are going to a small number of retailers and they are all talking to each other anyway (via third party return companies). Some folks are already banned from returning from one big box store (and as a result, other big box stores). Expect this to expand to smaller shops soon!
musicale 3y ago
> American students' attitudes towards their university. They also approach it with the same customer attitude, and fair enough, they do have to pay hefty sums. For decades, spendthrift universities - including public universities[1] - have been selling their students into debt servitude, drastically expanding administrative payroll and exorbitant construction projects while simultaneously shifting teaching duties onto poorly paid adjuncts. It would be nice if students could change the system, but they seem to have little say in the matter since university degrees are required for most jobs. Grad students are unionizing at least, but this is unlikely to decrease tuition, or costs for undergraduates. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37129359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37129359

doh 3y ago

I think that’s the crux of the point. Americans are trained to be demanding customers. Whatever is then packaged as a product/service for purchase, will be treated equally. As you pointed out, students pay a lot of money for their education in US. Shouldn’t they have a say in it? If that’s not good for the society, maybe it shouldn’t be sold as a product in the first place.

bonoboTP 3y ago
I leads quite far away. Americans are demanding customers which makes the service and products better in a way. But people are similarly also litigious, so everything a bit higher stakes will be ridiculously expensive. If little Timmy breaks a leg while with daycare corporation, the parents are likely to sue, because Healthcare is also a business etc etc. It all has its reason, it's just a whole different system and lifestyle and concerns than elsewhere (not to mention the whole thing around tips in certain service sectors). So while for me American students seem entitled, they'd see it as standing up for themselves. In Europe, where education is state subsidized, students are not customers, it's their responsibility to study well, as it is they who are being paid. "I'm a paying customer so you better give me good grades" just doesn't fly in that case.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Heh, that euro approach to education can create a real nightmare for Europeans moving to North America. US: “we require transcripts sent directly from the university” Euro university: “no, we don’t have a portal for students to request transcripts and mail them to any address they request. It’s the student’s responsibility to keep a copy of their own transcripts each year. [9 calls/emails later] If you reallyyyyyy need us to do something for you, fiiiiiine, you can pickup a copy at this office (except during summer). If you’re overseas, send a friend to pick it up, what’s the problem? What do you mean nobody but us can touch it and you can’t just send it to them yourself? Why are you being so difficult about this? This is way more than anybody else ever requires from us”
  - bonoboTP 3y ago
    I've never heard about such a concept. Do American universities offer that as a button click online? Do you mean transcripts to apply to grad school, or jobs in companies? Getting the university to mail something in my name to somewhere, for my own purposes seems nonsense from my European view. Like what do they have to do with a third party? Of course they will certify and stamp any documents that state objective facts about my studies (during opening hours, after waiting through a long queue). And probably if you explain the things and it sounds important like you git accepted at That said, things do differ between countries. In Hungary most universities switched from physical booklets where the profs had to physically sign each grade they gave, to an online system about 15 years ago. So no need to collect copies physically now. In Germany, universities vary in their practices but you can at least print out a proof of enrollment yourself which includes a verification code that third parties can check. But I think it's possible to get such things done in the end but it will need a lot of explanations and appearing in person.
    - mgkimsal 3y ago
      In 2012, I ordered my transcripts from my university (from the 90s) and they sent me a copy. I didn't ask them to send it anywhere else. I was expecting a fee, but there wasn't any (perhaps just because I was sending it to myself?). There was no portal to click, but I emailed in, and had a back and forth email with someone, then got it in the mail a couple weeks later.
    - lukas099 3y ago
      It was surprising to me too when I encountered it, but yes, at least at my college, in the rare instance that you needed an "Official Transcript", you filled out a form on a portal that included the address for it to be sent to. I think we got three for free and then they were like $15 a pop or something. I have no idea why they did this and did not just stamp/seal it and expect me to mail it myself.
      - youainti 3y ago
        The goal is to prevent fraud. They don't want people passing fake transcripts.

nonethewiser 3y ago

> But just like in parenting, this kind of experience and expectation can yield entitled personalities, which is indeed a common stereotype of Americans abroad. Or see American students' attitudes towards their university. They also approach it with the same customer attitude, and fair enough, they do have to pay hefty sums. "The customer is always right" is more true in America than Europe.

IggleSniggle 3y ago
First time I've seen someone saying that Americans have better taste than Europeans (j/k)
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  No need for "j/k" here. The original quote was something to the effect of "The customer is always right in matters of taste." It wasn't intended as a dictum to bend over backward to the breaking point and beyond in the name of "customer service."
  - eadler 3y ago
    Do you have a source for this? I often see people make this claim but can't find evidence that it was originally meant in the more limited sense.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Well, I think my tastes are better than everyone’s. That’s why they’re my tastes. But I actually have no idea what you’re saying. Have you heard the phrase “the customer is always right?” Im saying that attitude is more strongly held in the US.
  - IggleSniggle 3y ago
    I was referencing the phrase, "the customer is always right in matters of taste"
3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tehwebguy 3y ago

Not for long — more and more of our returns are going to a small number of retailers and they are all talking to each other anyway (via third party return companies). Some folks are already banned from returning from one big box store (and as a result, other big box stores). Expect this to expand to smaller shops soon!

musicale 3y ago

> American students' attitudes towards their university. They also approach it with the same customer attitude, and fair enough, they do have to pay hefty sums. For decades, spendthrift universities - including public universities[1] - have been selling their students into debt servitude, drastically expanding administrative payroll and exorbitant construction projects while simultaneously shifting teaching duties onto poorly paid adjuncts. It would be nice if students could change the system, but they seem to have little say in the matter since university degrees are required for most jobs. Grad students are unionizing at least, but this is unlikely to decrease tuition, or costs for undergraduates. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37129359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37129359