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How They Tried to Kill Me
- kitanata 3y ago[flagged]
- type_Ben_struct 3y ago502 for me. https://archive.ph/wDi29 https://archive.ph/wDi29
- ot1138 3y ago[flagged]
- paganel 3y ago[flagged]
- derelicta 3y agoWhy so much hostility towards her ?
- editional 3y agoHate has been a growing trend on HN lately. At least the submissions arent increasingly political
- K0balt 3y agoIt’s likely that Russian PR is active on HN. It certainly is on other similar sites.
- ranting-moth 3y agoOf course they are. And we're in the last year or two before everything will be drowned in astroturfing AI bots. They won't only spew out relentless PR, they'll also upvote each others diarrhea and downvote everyone else.
- derelicta 3y agoI dont doubt so. but I dont this one account is part of it. Too old and too active.
- paganel 3y agoI've been thrown "you're regurgitating Russian PR"at me by another old account a couple of weeks ago, when I mentioned that many Ukrainian men were literally kidnapped from the streets. Only for the Western The Guardian to come up yesterday with this article [1]: "Bribes and hiding at home: the Ukrainian men trying to avoid conscription". I wonder why would the Ukrainian men "hide at home"? I've got used to it. I've suggested to the admins of this forum at the beginning of this war to not let politics-related posts get to the front page, so that we won't have to get into these fights which help no-one, but apparently they're happy moderating this type of stuff so all the power to them. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hid...
- mistermann 3y agoAlso common on HN and everywhere is people implying that those who disagree with narrative are necessarily Russian. I wonder which phenomenon is more common, and which is more dangerous.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoNeither her nor "liberals" needed such a bad joke (I hope it was one?).
- paganel 3y agoNo, it wasn't a joke, not all of us share the same beliefs when it comes to this war. I was alluding to the fact that the Russian liberals, like this lady is, usually get attacked from both sides, and it seemed to me that the OP was unhappy with some of her literary performance in this article (an attack, in other words).
- throwbadubadu 3y agoHuh what? Maybe language gap, but to me it sounded like you made kind of ironic/sarcastic underlining of OPs attack by meaning "that's how liberals are, they need some slack", so painting her as liberal and also painting liberals as needing slack sounded like a typical thing right OR left extreme may say.. but as you say right about sharing not the same beliefs: That as well as politics should ideally just stay out of here what is firstly a personal sad story, and also doesn't belong into HN?
- paganel 3y ago> so painting her as liberal I'm not "painting" anything, she's a Russian person who has just emigrated from Russia on account of this war and who also happens to write in a literary online magazine, so most definitely she's not a conservative Slavophile. But, again, this might be a translation issue, because as I understand it calling someone a "liberal" in the States has become a slur, so that could explain your dissatisfaction with me calling her a liberal. > That as well as politics should ideally just stay out of here what is firstly a personal sad story, and also doesn't belong into HN? Glad that we agree on something.
- EliRivers 3y agoShe said she published the article and gave all the information she had to the Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s office. Should she publish the article again? Or is she forbidden to write about herself as well as about war crimes?
- Hoefner 3y agoBecause it's already documented at least by her articles and you can read it for free without buying anything. The book is about other things
- throwbadubadu 3y ago> So I wonder why she isn't writing about the war crimes Ehrm wow, she did, she went through her worst time of life for it, likely with permanent damage, and now recovers and picks her job back up. So what's wrong with you, why aren't you writing more about it?
- tokamak 3y ago[flagged]
- holbrad 3y agoDo you think Soviet Russia or Tsar Russia would be any better ?
- braymundo 3y agoTsar russia, soviet russia, modern russia, it's all the same. The world without russia at all would be immensely better.
- 5e92cb50239222b 3y agoPersonally I think the world would be a lot better without people such as yourself. This would cull maybe 20% of Russia (including almost all of their "elites"), and the rest of us would live happily ever after.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoYou're talking about 140 million people here
- golergka 3y agoNo, he's talking about country/government, not people. I was born in Moscow and spent most of my life there, and I completely agree that people who live there would be much better of without the current government and most likely without the country in it's current form too.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoThe country and government are people. Without people it's nothing. Remove the government overnight and the people aren't going to replace it with western leadership.
- Kapura 3y agoThe part that really got to me was this paragraph: >“That is what drives us crazy,” the detective said. “You come here and act like you’re on vacation. Like this is some paradise. It doesn’t even occur to you to keep yourself safe. We have political killings here. The Russian special services are active in Germany. Your carelessness, yours and your colleagues, knows no bounds.” It's very difficult to reconcile what seems like the safety of Europe with the reality of a war that is being fought online as much as on the ground. Journalists have always been targeted by authoritarian regimes, but the connectedness of the modern world makes them dangerous even outside after leaving the country. Clearly this is what the Russian state believes.
- 0xDEF 3y agoI remember a few years back Iran send assassins to kill Iranian dissidents in Germany, Austria, and Belgium. The assassins were caught and politely returned to Iran on a private plane. No punishment for planned/attempted murder. The West is hopelessly naive about sophisticated and brutal adversaries like Russia and Iran.
- selectodude 3y agoIt’s not naïvety, it’s that that west would appreciate the same treatment when they send spies and assassins, which they do.
- sinkwool 3y agoOr maybe they manage to recruit some of the spies/assassins to work as double-agents?
- selectodude 3y agoAnother distinct possibility.
- dash2 3y agoWhen has the West sent assassins to Iran or Russia?
- kunley 3y agoRussia as a state didn't "descend into fascism". It was always like that. For centuries. I have heard stories about NKVD methods since childhood. The victims were my family members living in the estern Poland, after it was invaded by Stalin at the very beginnings of WW2. What was happening before red revolution, during tsars rule, is in the literature. It is funny how generations of intelligent, well-educated westerners live in denial, unable to admit that the barbarians have been always the neighbors. It never changed. The methods of .ru government never changed and the political whitewashing of it never changed. PS. Ofc the first victim of Russian system is and has been the Russian citizens, murdered, robbed, brainwashed, dumbed down, manipulated and deprived. What is called by us "Stockholm syndrome" is a default life approach there.
- sneed_chucker 3y agoRight. The history of Russia, as fascinating as it is, is the same story again and again for centuries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_from_St._Petersburg_to_Moscow https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_from_St._Petersburg_...
- mistermann 3y agoEspecially impressive about westerners is their honesty about the shortcomings of their own nations.
- willcipriano 3y agoI'm in the west and I'm often the only person in the room who is aware that the US has been murdering children in almost a dozen countries around the globe for the past two decades. Like they are vaguely aware on a surface level but they haven't really conceptualized the fact and say things like "Russias unprecedented invasion!" dramatically and as if they had a moral leg to stand on.
- jjtheblunt 3y agoYou’re not the only American in this room to have noticed things like that
- denton-scratch 3y agoConsidering that she's presumably well-informed about global affairs, her resistance to the idea that russian secret services might be out to kill her, and especially her refusal to believe she might have been poisoned, is rather striking. It's almost as if she had no idea that russian agents have been poisoning prominent people in foreign lands for the last couple of decades. Perhaps she thinks she's not prominent enough? These poisonings target "prominent" people because they're supposed to make the news; they're meant as a warning. From that point of view, a journalist counts as "prominent".
- yorwba 3y agoFrom the article: It wasn’t that the idea of it “seemed crazy” to me. During my time at Novaya Gazeta, four of my colleagues were killed. I organized the funeral of Khimki journalist Mikhail Beketov, he’d been a friend. I knew that journalists got murdered. But I did not want to believe that they could kill me. I was protected from this thought by revulsion, shame, and exhaustion. It disgusted me to think that there were people who wanted me dead. I was ashamed to talk about it. Even with loved ones, let alone the police. And I felt how exhausted I was, how little strength I had left, that I wouldn’t be able to go on the run again.
- ajuc 3y ago> her resistance to the idea that russian secret services might be out to kill her, and especially her refusal to believe she might have been poisoned, is rather striking. During stalinist cleansings people almost always believed others were imprisoned/executed for a good reason, but they were innocent so this can't happen to them.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- troglotit 3y agoNot exactly "prominent". It's just "department of poisioning" of GRU should rationalize their finances, so they need to show "results", i.e. just poison "enemies of state", even if you're helping LGBTQ kids, or small ethnic group, e.t.c.
- 3y ago
- klooney 3y agoAny time I heard about Novaya Gazeta, it was always them doing incredibly brave journalism. Sad to hear they got shut down for good.
- runnig 3y agoThey moved to https://novayagazeta.eu/ https://novayagazeta.eu/
- 5e92cb50239222b 3y agoThey didn't really "move", it a different (though related) paper that lost some journalists from the old one who were unable or unwilling to emigrate and are kept silenced by fear for their personal safety. It is managed by a different editor (promoted from the old paper) and has a quite different feel to it.
- 0xDEF 3y agoThe journalists that have been killed in/by Russia in the past 20 years either revealed corruption close to Putin's inner circle or human rights violations by Russian forces in Chechnya. It was inevitable that they would also begin to target journalists who revealed human rights violations by Russian forces in Ukraine.
- mnemotronic 3y agoThis is really scary, disturbing and infuriating.
- AdamN 3y agoThe German counter-terrorism forces hold quite a bit of blame here. These things happening on German soil are unacceptable and it shouldn't be the victim's fault. What is German media saying about this?
- Wronnay 3y agoThere won't be much discussion about that in Germany because it is old news. Every German knows that and this is not the first incident. > We have political killings here. The Russian special services are active in Germany. This quote is the reality. It is well known that we have Russian, Turkish, Iranian and other spies here, political killings happen from time to time and sometimes we even have terrorists registered as refugees because our Government has no IDs from them (this happened back when we had many refugees from Syria - some of them were IS-Terrorists) We don't talk about America, we talk about Germany where the Military is a joke.
- mannykannot 3y agoWhat things could and should they have done here, if pointing out the author's naivete is unacceptable victim-blaming? The assassins are active in Germany because that's where their targets go, and the author's behavior both before and after the attack seems to have foreclosed on any effective policing.
- Aeolun 3y agoEffective policing happens before someone is poisoned. Everything after is a bandaid.
- mannykannot 3y agoCan you be somewhat specific about what could be done with regard to the situation in Germany today?
- AdamN 3y agoThe first step is to take responsibility and not to victim blame. American counter-intel would be livid about this kind of thing. Sure it happens but attitude counts for alot and counter-intel in Germany just seems like they have alot of ownership and Esprit de corps.
- pxeger1 3y ago> I corresponded about my trip to Munich over Facebook Messenger. It’s not secure and I knew that Technically, this is intriguing. Is Facebook compromised, or do you think they compromised her phone, or the phone or whoever she was talking to?
- proxysna 3y agoFacebook work with cops all around the world, might as well be an official request from russian internal affairs.
- SSLy 3y agoprobably MATE, not MITM
- fmajid 3y agoMessenger does not yet have the same level of end-to-end encryption as WhatsApp, but they are working towards that.
- NikkiA 3y agoThey had voice recordings of her, so it's unlikely it was facebook messenger
- ocschwar 3y agoThis story is being falsely flagged.
- dralley 3y agoUnsurprising
- bartread 3y agoAgree, this seems like it's being flagged in bad faith. In probably 13 years of HN membership, and maybe 14 - 15 of readership, I've never seen anything on HN before that's accrued 250+ points and been flagged. @dang I realise you're probably incredibly busy, but are you able to remove the flag, please?
- t0bia_s 3y agoWhy was it flaged? Why falsely? There are plenty flagged articles recently, but without any explanation it's hard to find out why. Nobody learn from it. At least we should have some options to set with flagging.
- andromaton 3y agoThank you for asking why it's flagged. (cargo cult) tagging @dang
- foobarian 3y agoI'm no assassin but wonder how someone could fail to kill someone with poison. Aren't there a million deadly choices out there that would do the job reliably? Is the FSB security apparatus this incompetent?
- fsloth 3y agoYes. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/21/europe/russia-navalny-poisoning-underpants-ward/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/21/europe/russia-navalny-poi... But could be warning as well, ofc. The point is, we don’t know. Whatever the outcome, it’s a show of force.
- foobarian 3y agoI guess it's better not to have a body, since it keeps things uncertain and doesn't give law enforcement cause to get involved.
- invalidname 3y agoNot an expert, just guessing. In the past they used radioactive poisoning which is pretty easy to trace back and caused collateral damage. That's problematic. Poison is very dependent on dosage and delivery without compromising the agent might be tricky.
- Paradigma11 3y agoI think its a mixture of incompetence, micromanaging (you need to use very inappropriate radioactive or chemical warfare agents like Novitchok) and indifference (since terror is a major goal). Here are elite GRU assassins giving an interview to support their cover story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZatub49aIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZatub49aIA
- tim333 3y agoThere seem to be a lot of people who survive. Navally, the Skipals. And Russia I think is the only country with a government poisoning lab and policy to do this stuff? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_laboratory_of_the_Soviet_secret_services https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_laboratory_of_the_Sovie...
- fsloth 3y agoPlease unflag this.
- slantedview 3y agoWhy was this flagged?
- fmajid 3y agoRussian propaganda or useful idiot Tankies.