10 ms·

Sam Bankman-Fried is going to jail

161 points by elorant 3y ago

helsinkiandrew 3y ago
Presumably this was the "private Google documents" that were reported on a month ago?: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/ftx-caroline-ellison-bankman-fried.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/ftx-caroline-e... https://nypost.com/2023/07/21/caroline-ellison-whined-sbf-breakups-made-work-at-alameda-painful-in-private-writings-report/ https://nypost.com/2023/07/21/caroline-ellison-whined-sbf-br...
- padjo 3y ago
  Yes, the NYT article you link is linked from the article
- naijaboiler 3y ago
  Seriously how petty can you be to leak those
  - bmitc 3y ago
    Although it is petty, I think it's and more sociopathic. He thinks he's smart enough to beat all this.
- plumeria 3y ago
  Archived version: https://archive.is/Rl39n https://archive.is/Rl39n
isaacfrond 3y ago
related (posted yesterday) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37119179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37119179
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Zero comments, same article, why bother posting?
LatteLazy 3y ago
Previously I thought he was just delaying endlessly because a life on bail is better than 40 years in prison. But increasingly I think he's just crazy. Not crazy enough for an insanity defence. But too crazy to act reliably...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  There has to be a certain mental aftereffect of going from a coddled life where nothing ever happens to you because you're a 'main character' and everybody else is just an NPC to the point where those NPC's put you in jail and hold you responsible for your actions. I've seen the term 'affluenza' in relation to this and it very much reminds me of some of the children of wealthy people that I know. They feel that they have deserved their station in life and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them getting a free pass for whatever transgressions they make because they're the golden children of the future. This results in the weirdest excesses and - invariably - they are proven right over and over again. Daddy will bail them out, buy off the authorities or donate to the school and all is forgiven. Running into the wall at this speed has to be a rude wake-up call.
  - FabHK 3y ago
    > 'affluenza' Nice term. Logan's kids on the TV series "Succession" definitely exhibited that affliction.
    - luc4sdreyer 3y ago
      The term became very popular during Ethan Couch's trial, because the judge bought it. > Couch was indicted on four counts of intoxication manslaughter for recklessly driving under the influence. In December 2013, Judge Jean Hudson Boyd sentenced Couch to ten years of probation, subsequently ordering him to undergo therapy at a long term inpatient facility. Before sentencing, Couch's attorneys had argued that Couch had "affluenza" and needed rehabilitation instead of prison, arguing that Couch had no understanding of boundaries as his affluent parents had never given him any. Couch's sentence, judged by many as outrageously lenient, set off what The New York Times called "an emotional, angry debate that has stretched far beyond the North Texas suburbs". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza
s_dev 3y ago
It's insane he could have cashed out as a billionaire and lived the high life for the remainder of his life but doubled down instead and is now facing a stretch in prison. I'd also like to put my hand up and say I was one of those who was cynical that he'd end up in prison so glad that seems to be happening. I reckoned he'd escape some how being let off on some technicality of some prosecutor not following due diligence.
- febed 3y ago
  If you watch some of his interviews after the news of the scam broke out, he was incriminating himself every time he opened his mouth. Almost as if he thought laws are just for plebs.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  The race isn't run yet.
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    SBF is going to be nailed to the cross as an warning to others. The case is a slam dunk, there are mountains of evidence, plenty of eager witnesses and prosecutors who would love to add his scalp to their collection. There's no way he's getting off on a technicality.
    - stephen_g 3y ago
      Yeah, and as much as he gave in political donations to all sorts of politicians in the past, since it looks like he won't be able to give any more in the future they have no reason for loyalty to try and influence anything behind the scenes.
      - shabda 3y ago
        I remember this quote here, “Do not count on the gratitude of deeds done for people in the past, you must make them grateful for things you will do for them in the future.” - Mario Puzo, Omerta.
honeybadger1 3y ago
[flagged]
- pixelpoet 3y ago
  SBF stole from rich people, Trump gave tax cuts to the rich. It's pretty clear which route allows you to almost literally shoot someone on 5th Avenue.
  - briandear 3y ago
    Trump gave tax cuts to everyone who paid taxes.
    - throw0101b 3y ago
      The tax cuts for "everyone" are configured to be rolled back: > Many tax cut provisions, especially income tax cuts, will expire in 2025,[9] and starting in 2021 will increase over time; by 2027 this would affect an estimated 65% of the population and in that same year the law's provisions are set to be fully enacted,[10] but the corporate tax cuts are permanent. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act
      - the-dude 3y ago
        Obviously Trump is not involved, so what is your point?
        throw0101b 3y ago
        > Obviously Trump is not involved, so what is your point? Trump was not involved in the TCJA? What? He was all over it: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zXiy4btg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zXiy4btg * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcfsgDFMXEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcfsgDFMXEs
        3y ago
j7ake 3y ago
I can’t believe someone would risk their bail by intimidating witnesses. Now instead of being able to prepare for the defence at home he has to sit in jail and wait. Wow…
- neom 3y ago
  It tracks with the rest of the story. Homie is clearly extremely bad at fully understanding the inevitable future consequence of his actions. Somewhat ironic given his parents are esteemed lawyers.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Perhaps he was accurately understanding the future consequences if he didn't act.
  - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
    Lawyers aren't paid to predict the future. Lawyers are paid to be persuasive in the present. Looks like his parents did too good a job there. SBF didn't just persuade those around him that the future was glittering and guaranteed, he persuaded himself.
    - tailspin2019 3y ago
      > Lawyers aren't paid to predict the future. Surely they are very often paid to tell you what likely legal consequences might transpire in the future based on actions that you take in the present…
  - random_upvoter 3y ago
    Some people have an unbreakable belief that they can charm their way out of any misconduct, and oftentimes it works too. It's basically just narcissism.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  Like most wealthy elites: They think rules are merely suggestions, and their superior intellect and wealth will insulate them.
Baader-Meinhof 3y ago
There was an illuminating interview he had before being arrested: COWEN: ...let’s say there’s a game: 51 percent, you double the Earth out somewhere else; 49 percent, it all disappears. Would you play that game? And would you keep on playing that, double or nothing? So, what’s the chance we’re left with anything? Don’t I just St. Petersburg paradox you into nonexistence? BANKMAN-FRIED: Well, not necessarily. Maybe you St. Petersburg paradox into an enormously valuable existence. That’s the other option. https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/sam-bankman-fried/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/sam-bankman-frie...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That's reminiscent of a Martingale but the roles are reversed. That was a great question to put to him and gives some insight into how these things happen.
- lordnacho 3y ago
  This is the epitome of "understands how things work but makes bad decisions". You do have to be smart to see that there might be a more positive outcome. But you have to be unwise to gamble. My first boss (trading) told me, "Our job is to be in business tomorrow". Which is relevant because in that business you actually can blow up in a day.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Almost by definition the only “huge winners” at the roulette table are the people who keep putting it all on black and let it ride. Because the people who take their winnings off can’t ever get the huge payouts. And some people seem absolutely unable to understand the probabilities involved. It seems to almost be a requirement for startup leaders.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      > Almost by definition the only “huge winners” at the roulette table are the people who keep putting it all on black and let it ride. Not over the long run. The house always wins.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] Lots of discussion here from days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37092861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37092861
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pretext 3y ago
The right man in the right place.
Simulacra 3y ago
I still find myself reacting to news of wealthy people going to jail with a bit of disbelief. Is this me or do others feel this way?
- lolsal 3y ago
  I think I feel the same way. I think it has to do with someone like this going to jail sounds like justice, but it doesn’t really help any of the people he screwed over. Sort of like when one of the government agencies issued a huge fine to a company that wronged users. Will I ever see a dollar of that? It’s punitive consequences, but not justice.
meling 3y ago
This podcast from The Journal [1] goes a bit deeper into why the judge eventually put him in jail. [1] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id1469394914?i=1000624441002 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id14693949...

161 points by elorant 3y ago

Presumably this was the "private Google documents" that were reported on a month ago?: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/ftx-caroline-ellison-bankman-fried.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/20/technology/ftx-caroline-e... https://nypost.com/2023/07/21/caroline-ellison-whined-sbf-breakups-made-work-at-alameda-painful-in-private-writings-report/ https://nypost.com/2023/07/21/caroline-ellison-whined-sbf-br...

padjo 3y ago
Yes, the NYT article you link is linked from the article
naijaboiler 3y ago
Seriously how petty can you be to leak those
- bmitc 3y ago
  Although it is petty, I think it's and more sociopathic. He thinks he's smart enough to beat all this.
plumeria 3y ago
Archived version: https://archive.is/Rl39n https://archive.is/Rl39n

isaacfrond 3y ago

related (posted yesterday) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37119179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37119179

jacquesm 3y ago
Zero comments, same article, why bother posting?

LatteLazy 3y ago

Previously I thought he was just delaying endlessly because a life on bail is better than 40 years in prison. But increasingly I think he's just crazy. Not crazy enough for an insanity defence. But too crazy to act reliably...

jacquesm 3y ago
There has to be a certain mental aftereffect of going from a coddled life where nothing ever happens to you because you're a 'main character' and everybody else is just an NPC to the point where those NPC's put you in jail and hold you responsible for your actions. I've seen the term 'affluenza' in relation to this and it very much reminds me of some of the children of wealthy people that I know. They feel that they have deserved their station in life and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them getting a free pass for whatever transgressions they make because they're the golden children of the future. This results in the weirdest excesses and - invariably - they are proven right over and over again. Daddy will bail them out, buy off the authorities or donate to the school and all is forgiven. Running into the wall at this speed has to be a rude wake-up call.
- FabHK 3y ago
  > 'affluenza' Nice term. Logan's kids on the TV series "Succession" definitely exhibited that affliction.
  - luc4sdreyer 3y ago
    The term became very popular during Ethan Couch's trial, because the judge bought it. > Couch was indicted on four counts of intoxication manslaughter for recklessly driving under the influence. In December 2013, Judge Jean Hudson Boyd sentenced Couch to ten years of probation, subsequently ordering him to undergo therapy at a long term inpatient facility. Before sentencing, Couch's attorneys had argued that Couch had "affluenza" and needed rehabilitation instead of prison, arguing that Couch had no understanding of boundaries as his affluent parents had never given him any. Couch's sentence, judged by many as outrageously lenient, set off what The New York Times called "an emotional, angry debate that has stretched far beyond the North Texas suburbs". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza

s_dev 3y ago

It's insane he could have cashed out as a billionaire and lived the high life for the remainder of his life but doubled down instead and is now facing a stretch in prison. I'd also like to put my hand up and say I was one of those who was cynical that he'd end up in prison so glad that seems to be happening. I reckoned he'd escape some how being let off on some technicality of some prosecutor not following due diligence.

febed 3y ago
If you watch some of his interviews after the news of the scam broke out, he was incriminating himself every time he opened his mouth. Almost as if he thought laws are just for plebs.
jacquesm 3y ago
The race isn't run yet.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  SBF is going to be nailed to the cross as an warning to others. The case is a slam dunk, there are mountains of evidence, plenty of eager witnesses and prosecutors who would love to add his scalp to their collection. There's no way he's getting off on a technicality.
  - stephen_g 3y ago
    Yeah, and as much as he gave in political donations to all sorts of politicians in the past, since it looks like he won't be able to give any more in the future they have no reason for loyalty to try and influence anything behind the scenes.
    - shabda 3y ago
      I remember this quote here, “Do not count on the gratitude of deeds done for people in the past, you must make them grateful for things you will do for them in the future.” - Mario Puzo, Omerta.

honeybadger1 3y ago

[flagged]

pixelpoet 3y ago
SBF stole from rich people, Trump gave tax cuts to the rich. It's pretty clear which route allows you to almost literally shoot someone on 5th Avenue.
- briandear 3y ago
  Trump gave tax cuts to everyone who paid taxes.
  - throw0101b 3y ago
    The tax cuts for "everyone" are configured to be rolled back: > Many tax cut provisions, especially income tax cuts, will expire in 2025,[9] and starting in 2021 will increase over time; by 2027 this would affect an estimated 65% of the population and in that same year the law's provisions are set to be fully enacted,[10] but the corporate tax cuts are permanent. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act
    - the-dude 3y ago
      Obviously Trump is not involved, so what is your point?
      - throw0101b 3y ago
        > Obviously Trump is not involved, so what is your point? Trump was not involved in the TCJA? What? He was all over it: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zXiy4btg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7zXiy4btg * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcfsgDFMXEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcfsgDFMXEs
        3y ago

j7ake 3y ago

I can’t believe someone would risk their bail by intimidating witnesses. Now instead of being able to prepare for the defence at home he has to sit in jail and wait. Wow…

neom 3y ago
It tracks with the rest of the story. Homie is clearly extremely bad at fully understanding the inevitable future consequence of his actions. Somewhat ironic given his parents are esteemed lawyers.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Perhaps he was accurately understanding the future consequences if he didn't act.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  Lawyers aren't paid to predict the future. Lawyers are paid to be persuasive in the present. Looks like his parents did too good a job there. SBF didn't just persuade those around him that the future was glittering and guaranteed, he persuaded himself.
  - tailspin2019 3y ago
    > Lawyers aren't paid to predict the future. Surely they are very often paid to tell you what likely legal consequences might transpire in the future based on actions that you take in the present…
- random_upvoter 3y ago
  Some people have an unbreakable belief that they can charm their way out of any misconduct, and oftentimes it works too. It's basically just narcissism.
Simulacra 3y ago
Like most wealthy elites: They think rules are merely suggestions, and their superior intellect and wealth will insulate them.

Baader-Meinhof 3y ago

There was an illuminating interview he had before being arrested: COWEN: ...let’s say there’s a game: 51 percent, you double the Earth out somewhere else; 49 percent, it all disappears. Would you play that game? And would you keep on playing that, double or nothing? So, what’s the chance we’re left with anything? Don’t I just St. Petersburg paradox you into nonexistence? BANKMAN-FRIED: Well, not necessarily. Maybe you St. Petersburg paradox into an enormously valuable existence. That’s the other option. https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/sam-bankman-fried/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/sam-bankman-frie...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 3y ago
That's reminiscent of a Martingale but the roles are reversed. That was a great question to put to him and gives some insight into how these things happen.
lordnacho 3y ago
This is the epitome of "understands how things work but makes bad decisions". You do have to be smart to see that there might be a more positive outcome. But you have to be unwise to gamble. My first boss (trading) told me, "Our job is to be in business tomorrow". Which is relevant because in that business you actually can blow up in a day.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Almost by definition the only “huge winners” at the roulette table are the people who keep putting it all on black and let it ride. Because the people who take their winnings off can’t ever get the huge payouts. And some people seem absolutely unable to understand the probabilities involved. It seems to almost be a requirement for startup leaders.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > Almost by definition the only “huge winners” at the roulette table are the people who keep putting it all on black and let it ride. Not over the long run. The house always wins.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] Lots of discussion here from days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37092861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37092861

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

pretext 3y ago

The right man in the right place.

Simulacra 3y ago

I still find myself reacting to news of wealthy people going to jail with a bit of disbelief. Is this me or do others feel this way?

lolsal 3y ago
I think I feel the same way. I think it has to do with someone like this going to jail sounds like justice, but it doesn’t really help any of the people he screwed over. Sort of like when one of the government agencies issued a huge fine to a company that wronged users. Will I ever see a dollar of that? It’s punitive consequences, but not justice.

meling 3y ago

This podcast from The Journal [1] goes a bit deeper into why the judge eventually put him in jail. [1] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id1469394914?i=1000624441002 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id14693949...