5 ms·

It's looking more like a slow victory than a failure: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html P

It's looking more like a slow victory than a failure: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html People like to complain a lot about the new features in v6, but they don't make it any worse as a v4 replacement.

mike_d 3y ago
IPv6 adoption is just the traffic shift from desktop to mobile. IPv6 kinda makes sense in mobile because it solves a problem of needing multiple addresses per person (phone, tablet, gaming device, etc) and the whole stack is maintained by two entities (the phone OS manufacturer and the carrier). It probably would have worked even better if it was far less complex and only solved the problem that was needed. https://web.archive.org/web/20210122043401/https://blogs.akamai.com/2013/06/world-ipv6-launch-anniversary-measuring-adoption-one-year-later.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210122043401/https://blogs.aka...
- fulafel 3y ago
  Residential broadband has been getting v6 too. It saves money and provides added functionalityfor the same reasons as on mobile. And academic/research networks got there first long time ago. Corporate envirments seem the biggest holdout.
- api 3y ago
  Residential broadband often has it too. The laggards are corporate networks and cloud where IT is ultra conservative and “if it’s not broke don’t fix it.” The only thing that will make corporate environments change is if something they need starts requiring it, and not a second before. Cloud is slowly getting it. Slowly. GitHub still doesn’t have it though, which makes pure v6 nodes annoying for a lot of use cases.
  - pknomad 3y ago
    I work for a federal space where IPv6 native is a mandate. As someone who's working on k8s, we often have to build and patch everything ourselves to support that mandate. Want to pull a helm chart from a github repo? Gotta either dual stack the node or run a reverse proxy to make that happen. I'd love to be at a point where everyone just dual stacked everything so that one day we can flip off the IPv4 switch.
    - Dagger2 3y ago
      Try NAT64. It'll let v6-only clients reach v4-only websites.
      - pknomad 3y ago
        Interesting. I'll take a look! Thanks!
    - ianburrell 3y ago
      I think major failure of Kubernetes was not being IPv6-only from the beginning. Its model of every pod having own address works much better with IPv6 where addresses are cheap. With IPv4, it needs complicated overlay networks. The cluster boundary would also make a good place for NAT64 proxy. Kubernetes didn't get IPv6 support until later, and it sounds like it isn't reliable yet.
      - mike_d 3y ago
        > I think major failure of Kubernetes was Heh. Kubernetes as a whole was a failed project at Google that got open sourced.
        pknomad 3y ago
        I was under the impression that Google simply latched onto the project? Doesn't Google still use borg to this day?
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - vetinari 3y ago
    Corporate networks are not lagging for being ultra conservative; they lag, because the moment they start thinking about any change, their vendors start pushing all manners of products and licenses on them, that they insist are absolutely necessary for that change and it won't work without it. Sharks feel the blood in the water, and they want to make whatever is possible on it. So in the end you are looking both at capex, increased opex and for what? You have ipv6? Congratulation, now you go to your C-level bosses and explain to them why it was worth it. Good luck.
- throw0101b 3y ago
  > IPv6 adoption is just the traffic shift from desktop to mobile. There are entire ISPs (in the US) that are IPv6-only for CPE because IPv4 is unavailable and they have to use expensive CG-NAT boxes to deal with IPv4: * https://community.roku.com/t5/Features-settings-updates/It-s-2022-and-still-no-IPv6/m-p/854673/highlight/true#M35732 https://community.roku.com/t5/Features-settings-updates/It-s... *https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35047624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35047624 Meanwhile India was 80% IPv6 as of a few months ago: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32798003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32798003 The fact that the US and EU just happened to get a bunch of addresses first doesn't mean the rest of the world has the same options available. More addresses are needed if everyone on the planet is to be able to connect.
- systemBuilder 3y ago
  IPv6 only solves a problem if you don't understand the problem itself! Just because people have five devices doesn't mean they need 65,000 * 5 internet addresses ... there is an endpoint for every port and each device needs only a handful of ports if not only one! Each user can certainly get by with five ports on five shared ipv4 addresses. As I said before IPv6 will never happen fully because it solves a non-problem very expensively - by assuming the whole world is 64-bit workstations!
  - patmorgan23 3y ago
    That works fine for outbound connections but doesn't work for inbound connections. You can't have two devices listening for inbound connections on the same IP address.
mort96 3y ago
I'm worried about the long tail. IPv6 won't actually be useful until more or less everything supports v6; as long as there are enough clients which don't support v6 servers need v4, and as long as there are enough servers which don't support v6 clients need v4. And until we can start disabling v4, v6 gives no advantage and only causes significant added complexity. I'm worried that the time when we can start removing v4 and therefore see the actual advantage of v6 won't be here for at least a hundred years, optimistically.
- OccamsMirror 3y ago
  I think you’ll find the real transition to be a lot quicker than that. All it takes is one of the big companies drawing a line in the sand because they’re unable to buy enough IP addresses, so they finally take a stand. Just like when YouTube nailed the lid into the coffin of ie6.
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    I doubt a big company would draw the line in the sand. But I could see an upstart (think TikTok) not having up enough IP addresses and just giving a crappy, slow proxied experience over IPv4, but having it be native, zippy and good over IPv6. Suddenly you have teens begging their parents to switch ISPs.
    - nikanj 3y ago
      That comes with a major assumption that switching ISPs is an option. Most people get to choose between their cable company, or a fleet of ill-trained pigeons
      - voyagerfan5761 3y ago
        As an example, the options where I am right now (thankfully temporary) are: - $55/mo. 3 Mbps DSL - $80/mo. 300 Mbps cable (or even more expensive, faster cable) - $120/mo. 100+ Mbps (if you're lucky) Starlink - A few other heavily restricted, very expensive satellite options (e.g. HughesNet), to which the aforementioned fleet of ill-trained carrier pigeons might be preferable Only one of those is practical and (mostly) reliable for anything remotely approaching something like remote work. Back home it's such a luxury to be able to choose DSL, cable, or fiber. I can only dream that all markets will have an actual choice between Internet service providers someday.
mkl 3y ago
It spikes up 3-5 percentage points every weekend. Presumably mobile use goes up and computer use goes down.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Corporate use goes down and Residential use goes up. Corporate networks were the last to drop XP, the last to drop IE, and will be the last to adopt IPv6.
  - jandrese 3y ago
    That's not quite true. Even after corporate users have switched the government will still be on V4. The US military is drowning in IPv4 addresses and feels little pressure to switch.
    - patmorgan23 3y ago
      Azure AD only got IPv6 support this year. Most corporate networks have not switched, whole most federal agencies have implemented IPv6(due to mandates), mobile carriers are heavily utilizing IPv6 and so are residential ISPs (Comcast and Time Warner have been deploying IPv6 since 2011)
      - jandrese 3y ago
        Federal agencies turned on the Cloudflare flag that auto-translates incoming IPv6 packets to the IPv4 that they support for front facing websites. That checked the box and little progress has been made since then.
uuddlrlrbaba 3y ago
Wow a ~40% migration over the course of 20 years. What a victory :|
- patmorgan23 3y ago
  You try and get billions of people to do anything quickly

mike_d 3y ago

IPv6 adoption is just the traffic shift from desktop to mobile. IPv6 kinda makes sense in mobile because it solves a problem of needing multiple addresses per person (phone, tablet, gaming device, etc) and the whole stack is maintained by two entities (the phone OS manufacturer and the carrier). It probably would have worked even better if it was far less complex and only solved the problem that was needed. https://web.archive.org/web/20210122043401/https://blogs.akamai.com/2013/06/world-ipv6-launch-anniversary-measuring-adoption-one-year-later.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210122043401/https://blogs.aka...

fulafel 3y ago
Residential broadband has been getting v6 too. It saves money and provides added functionalityfor the same reasons as on mobile. And academic/research networks got there first long time ago. Corporate envirments seem the biggest holdout.
api 3y ago
Residential broadband often has it too. The laggards are corporate networks and cloud where IT is ultra conservative and “if it’s not broke don’t fix it.” The only thing that will make corporate environments change is if something they need starts requiring it, and not a second before. Cloud is slowly getting it. Slowly. GitHub still doesn’t have it though, which makes pure v6 nodes annoying for a lot of use cases.
- pknomad 3y ago
  I work for a federal space where IPv6 native is a mandate. As someone who's working on k8s, we often have to build and patch everything ourselves to support that mandate. Want to pull a helm chart from a github repo? Gotta either dual stack the node or run a reverse proxy to make that happen. I'd love to be at a point where everyone just dual stacked everything so that one day we can flip off the IPv4 switch.
  - Dagger2 3y ago
    Try NAT64. It'll let v6-only clients reach v4-only websites.
    - pknomad 3y ago
      Interesting. I'll take a look! Thanks!
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    I think major failure of Kubernetes was not being IPv6-only from the beginning. Its model of every pod having own address works much better with IPv6 where addresses are cheap. With IPv4, it needs complicated overlay networks. The cluster boundary would also make a good place for NAT64 proxy. Kubernetes didn't get IPv6 support until later, and it sounds like it isn't reliable yet.
    - mike_d 3y ago
      > I think major failure of Kubernetes was Heh. Kubernetes as a whole was a failed project at Google that got open sourced.
      - pknomad 3y ago
        I was under the impression that Google simply latched onto the project? Doesn't Google still use borg to this day?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- vetinari 3y ago
  Corporate networks are not lagging for being ultra conservative; they lag, because the moment they start thinking about any change, their vendors start pushing all manners of products and licenses on them, that they insist are absolutely necessary for that change and it won't work without it. Sharks feel the blood in the water, and they want to make whatever is possible on it. So in the end you are looking both at capex, increased opex and for what? You have ipv6? Congratulation, now you go to your C-level bosses and explain to them why it was worth it. Good luck.
throw0101b 3y ago
> IPv6 adoption is just the traffic shift from desktop to mobile. There are entire ISPs (in the US) that are IPv6-only for CPE because IPv4 is unavailable and they have to use expensive CG-NAT boxes to deal with IPv4: * https://community.roku.com/t5/Features-settings-updates/It-s-2022-and-still-no-IPv6/m-p/854673/highlight/true#M35732 https://community.roku.com/t5/Features-settings-updates/It-s... *https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35047624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35047624 Meanwhile India was 80% IPv6 as of a few months ago: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32798003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32798003 The fact that the US and EU just happened to get a bunch of addresses first doesn't mean the rest of the world has the same options available. More addresses are needed if everyone on the planet is to be able to connect.
systemBuilder 3y ago
IPv6 only solves a problem if you don't understand the problem itself! Just because people have five devices doesn't mean they need 65,000 * 5 internet addresses ... there is an endpoint for every port and each device needs only a handful of ports if not only one! Each user can certainly get by with five ports on five shared ipv4 addresses. As I said before IPv6 will never happen fully because it solves a non-problem very expensively - by assuming the whole world is 64-bit workstations!
- patmorgan23 3y ago
  That works fine for outbound connections but doesn't work for inbound connections. You can't have two devices listening for inbound connections on the same IP address.

mort96 3y ago

I'm worried about the long tail. IPv6 won't actually be useful until more or less everything supports v6; as long as there are enough clients which don't support v6 servers need v4, and as long as there are enough servers which don't support v6 clients need v4. And until we can start disabling v4, v6 gives no advantage and only causes significant added complexity. I'm worried that the time when we can start removing v4 and therefore see the actual advantage of v6 won't be here for at least a hundred years, optimistically.

OccamsMirror 3y ago
I think you’ll find the real transition to be a lot quicker than that. All it takes is one of the big companies drawing a line in the sand because they’re unable to buy enough IP addresses, so they finally take a stand. Just like when YouTube nailed the lid into the coffin of ie6.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  I doubt a big company would draw the line in the sand. But I could see an upstart (think TikTok) not having up enough IP addresses and just giving a crappy, slow proxied experience over IPv4, but having it be native, zippy and good over IPv6. Suddenly you have teens begging their parents to switch ISPs.
  - nikanj 3y ago
    That comes with a major assumption that switching ISPs is an option. Most people get to choose between their cable company, or a fleet of ill-trained pigeons
    - voyagerfan5761 3y ago
      As an example, the options where I am right now (thankfully temporary) are: - $55/mo. 3 Mbps DSL - $80/mo. 300 Mbps cable (or even more expensive, faster cable) - $120/mo. 100+ Mbps (if you're lucky) Starlink - A few other heavily restricted, very expensive satellite options (e.g. HughesNet), to which the aforementioned fleet of ill-trained carrier pigeons might be preferable Only one of those is practical and (mostly) reliable for anything remotely approaching something like remote work. Back home it's such a luxury to be able to choose DSL, cable, or fiber. I can only dream that all markets will have an actual choice between Internet service providers someday.

mkl 3y ago

It spikes up 3-5 percentage points every weekend. Presumably mobile use goes up and computer use goes down.

kalleboo 3y ago
Corporate use goes down and Residential use goes up. Corporate networks were the last to drop XP, the last to drop IE, and will be the last to adopt IPv6.
- jandrese 3y ago
  That's not quite true. Even after corporate users have switched the government will still be on V4. The US military is drowning in IPv4 addresses and feels little pressure to switch.
  - patmorgan23 3y ago
    Azure AD only got IPv6 support this year. Most corporate networks have not switched, whole most federal agencies have implemented IPv6(due to mandates), mobile carriers are heavily utilizing IPv6 and so are residential ISPs (Comcast and Time Warner have been deploying IPv6 since 2011)
    - jandrese 3y ago
      Federal agencies turned on the Cloudflare flag that auto-translates incoming IPv6 packets to the IPv4 that they support for front facing websites. That checked the box and little progress has been made since then.

uuddlrlrbaba 3y ago

Wow a ~40% migration over the course of 20 years. What a victory :|

patmorgan23 3y ago
You try and get billions of people to do anything quickly