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> even if you're on $150k you can't really afford to live on your own (even an apartment is a stretch) as housing and living expenses are so high That's pretty
by rr808 3y ago
> even if you're on $150k you can't really afford to live on your own (even an apartment is a stretch) as housing and living expenses are so high
That's pretty standard outside the USA too.
- astrange 3y agoOnly in the Anglo countries. Other countries build enough housing. (And it's not true in the US, only some coastal regions.)
- rr808 3y agoI know people in their 20s in Sweden, Italy, Singapore, Greece and they're all struggling and/or living with their parents. The main point though was that developers dont earn loads in those countries.
- astrange 3y agoYes, Sweden (Stockholm) at least is similar. I think Italy and Greece's problems are more just that they're poor and underdeveloped, so it's more like poor areas of the US than rich areas. But they don't have nearly the self-defeating housing planning systems of the UK. I'm told Greece has some interesting housing typologies (polikatoikia): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-15/the-design-history-of-athens-iconic-apartments https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-15/the-desig...
- robocat 3y agoThe “poor” in the USA are difficult to compare with people in Europe: The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most European Nations: https://fee.org/articles/the-poorest-20-of-americans-are-richer-than-most-nations-of-europe/
- drunkenmagician 3y agoTrue for Singapore - rent here is very expensive, could be 50% or more of monthly salary for younglings. Singles in their 20's do not qualify for govt subsidised housing (HDB). Rents here in Singapore range for 3k + for a basic apartment, 4k for a basic Condo apartment. Salary averages are about 6 - 9k (gross) for developers in that experience / age range
- gmerc 3y agocontext matters though - society expects you to not rent, and will provide for you if you stick to its norms. If you are a foreigner, or don’t want to marry Singapore is not for younglings. 80% of housing is government subsidized ownership for citizen couples (or singles after 35). It’s brutal but philosophically aligned with the ‘good for the country’ - not enough space for people to be single. BTO flats are very heavily subsidized and monthly payment will be in the hundreds for people matching the expectations.
- SenHeng 3y agoTo expand on the terminology. Apartments are govt provided public housing with a 99 year lease. Most of the population live in these. Only citizens and PR holders are allowed to purchase one per household. Condos are gated compounds built by private developers, some have a 99 year lease too. These are for the rich. You can own as many as you like. You may only own one or the other.
- gmerc 3y agoSingapore as a country is designed that you are a local live with your parents until you marry (BTO. If you stick to that societal expectation, the country is very affordable as the government will subsidize you a lot. If you do not or can not, you will pay for it. On one hand it’s brutal efficient and in many ways necessary (there just ain’t that much space for people to be single) and it’s reflected in immigration policy as well - trying to get PR/green card as a single is very very hard because that’s the only way for the government to seriously affect demographic curve without forcing people to have children.
- SenHeng 3y agoSingapore is 699km² (may have expanded since I left) with a population of almost 6m not including migrants. Tokyo is 619km² with a population of almost 10m [0]. And that's not accounting yet for the surrounding population that commutes into Tokyo. During the last census in 2020, Tokyo's daytime population surges to 16m. [1] The difference between these two cities is that a large portion of Japanese real estate are micro 1~2 bedroom apartments (below 20m²) built specifically for singles and young adults. The SG govt has for years claimed that it doesn't have enough space, in reality they're just want to encourage multi-generational living. 0: https://ieagent.jp/blog/eria/tokyo23population-601355#:~:text=「東京都総務局統計部」によると、2023,と非常に多いです%E3%80%82 https://ieagent.jp/blog/eria/tokyo23population-601355#:~:tex... 1: https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGKKZO62846080T20C22A7EA4000/#:~:text=総務省は22日,53万人増えた%E3%80%82 https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGKKZO62846080T20C22A7EA4000/...
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoMost cities in the developed world don’t provide the micro apartments of Tokyo. Their codes don’t allow for them.
- msh 3y agoIf you make equal to a 150k usd salary you can certainly live in a nice neighborhood in Stockholm (capital of Sweden) and a comfortable lifestyle.
- paddim8 3y agoIn Sweden it's expensive in Stockholm, but in most cities it's perfectly fine. The average rent is less than a third of the average salary. In my city you can get a 2-3 bedroom apartment bike distance from the city center for 100k USD and it's one of the bigger cities
- paulcole 3y agoThere is nowhere in the US that someone with little debt and no major medical issues can’t afford to have their own apartment on $150,000 a year. Even SF and NYC would be no problem.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoWhat countries build enough housing? In China, they build like crazy but housing is still expensive, even in third tier or worse cities.
- standardUser 3y agoThere is no city in America where a single individual cannot afford a comfortable lifestyle in a nice neighborhood on a $150k salary. is this not true in most of Europe? I feel like most of my European friends make well south of $150k and do just fine.
- jchonphoenix 3y ago[flagged]
- ESTheComposer 3y ago> single individual
- dalyons 3y agoOPs first sentence clearly says “single”.
- pandaman 3y agoNZD is 0.6 USD or so, 150K NZD is about 90K USD, according to HUD, such an income for a single person is between Very Low Income (65K) and Low Income (104K) in San Francisco. You can explore income limits here https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/il.html https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/il.html
- standardUser 3y agoI used to work in public housing so I know all about income limits and how they are determined by the average income of the specific region and household size. When talking about average income in ridiculous high income areas, "below average" can still be a very livable salary.
- pandaman 3y agoIt very well may be very livable but I don't see how it can be "a comfortable lifestyle in a nice neighborhood". With the standard 30% of gross income limit you can rent at $2250/m, which limits you to tiny apartments in certain neighborhoods.