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As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and

As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. I'm not saving nearly as much as I was years ago and I think my "lifestyle" has decreased post COVID (few vacations, eating out is a treat, gifts are for birthdays/holidays). Is everyone swimming in debt?

throwaway2203 3y ago
yup, with daycare costs we're technically top 10% and still kinda hand to mouth in a MCOL area.
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  My savings accounts look wistfully as I spend more on daycare per kid per month than I used to pay for rent not too long ago
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  I think the concept of cost of living areas is out the window. Mortgage and rent may be relatively COL dependent (kinda, but everyone is incentived to even it out nationwide), but for everything else I actually think the competition within big cities/"HCOL areas" drives down prices. In my "LCOL" flyover area I'm seeing $30+ pizza and $18 burgers, along with $10 beers at bars. It's insane.
  - mjn 3y ago
    That matches my experience. Of places I've spent significant time in the past year, the one with the most reasonably priced food for eating out is NYC, of all places. It has very expensive places too, of course, but a lot more sub-$10 options than anywhere else I've been recently. There are even a few 99-cent pizza slice places still in business (not as many as 10 years ago, but they exist, and $2-3/slice places are abundant).
  - gruez 3y ago
    > In my "LCOL" flyover area I'm seeing $30+ pizza and $18 burgers, along with $10 beers at bars. It's insane. "$30+ pizza and $18 burgers" doesn't say much when you consider that there's a huge price/quality range between basic and premium offerings. For instance, a $18 waygu beef burger at a gastro pub doesn't seem very out of place at all, but a $18 mcdonalds burger would be outrageously expensive.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    I live in a—4th tier is selling it short, but 3rd tier seems generous, call it 3.5th tier—city, and am always shocked at how much cheaper good restaurant food, baked goods, et c. are in "real" cities compared to here. Anything non-shit is basically 20-50% more expensive here than in HCOL cities. Makes no sense, these places should have like 1/5 the rent costs and lower labor costs than the major coastal cities, yet, prices are sky-high and quality's often not even that good. Groceries are about the same price. More expensive for some things, cheaper for others. Health care's more expensive here, with lower quality, because it's a flyover red state. HCOL only seems to apply to housing. Everything else is about the same or cheaper in "HCOL" cities. May not hold for other smaller/poorer cities, but very much does for ours.
fullshark 3y ago
> Is everyone swimming in debt? Probably https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG
- fuckthisshit3 3y ago
  Debt is a socialized hallucination. If people refuse to give up on it, we can just take the money back from the rich too through taxes. Reaganomics legalized looting pensions to invest on Wall Street. There's precedent for expropriation of wealth of the dying. What are a bunch of retirees going to do? Fight back against 20-30 somethings? Boomers benefited from New Deal then killed it. There is no market, just a legalized generational Ponzi scheme.
- 01100011 3y ago
  Not so bad when adjusted for inflation but not great: https://usafacts.org/articles/the-state-of-household-debt-in-the-us/ https://usafacts.org/articles/the-state-of-household-debt-in... I'm not sure what it looks like if you adjust for population growth. Debt to GDP is looking good, but with wealth inequality as bad as it is(thanks Jerome!) I'm not sure that matters as much.
01100011 3y ago
I don't know how most people are doing it. For me it's because the asset bubble has inflated my stock income. I suspect a lot of folks who owned homes, stocks and other assets are feeling the wealth effect. For the rest of society, I don't know why they're not in the streets with pitchforks.
- Geee 3y ago
  "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford
  - 542458 3y ago
    Not an actual Henry Ford quote fwiw. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry-ford-predict-revolution-if-people-understood-the-banking-and-monetary#27316 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry...
    - eurleif 3y ago
      Your link says it's a paraphrase rather than an exact quote. It still represents his sentiment accurately. But quoting Henry Ford, particularly his views on nefarious bankers, is a pretty questionable choice considering what he had to say about Jews.
      - spiderice 3y ago
        This is a logical fallacy. His view on Jews has no effect on whether his statements on nefarious bankers are true. You can quote me saying 1+1=2, even if 2 is my favorite number. Now if he’s being misleading and you have evidence of that, then his feeling toward Jews might explain why he is biased
        eurleif 3y ago
        You misunderstand the scope of formal fallacies, which only apply to formal arguments. Most arguments aren't formal arguments, and that's ok; they aren't supposed to be. Instead of proving a conclusion from a set of premises, they rely on heuristics to draw probabilistic inferences. In the context of a formal argument, the act of quoting Henry Ford would have been either the fallacy of appeal to authority (if the quote's provenance were meant to demonstrate its veracity), or the fallacy of bare assertion (if it were meant to stand on its own). I didn't invoke those fallacies because I understand that, outside the context of a formal argument, appeal to authority is a reasonable heuristic, rather than a fallacy. There's nothing fallacious about saying, for example: "Most doctors recommend getting vaccinated, so you should probably get vaccinated." In this context, my reply is also not fallacious: it's reasonable to doubt the reasoning ability of a vicious anti-Semite, particularly on the subject of nefarious bankers, which is closely intertwined with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
paulpauper 3y ago
wages have gone up too
- qbasic_forever 3y ago
  Not nearly as much as inflation. Groceries alone are up something like 40% in the last 2-3 years. Your and everyone else's wages have not risen that fast on the whole.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Groceries are for many a tiny part of their expenses, and other things they buy are not up as much. Calculating inflation is difficult for the above reason.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    On the whole? No. People that were making near minimum wage before absolutely have though, and I think that's been a huge driver of the inflation. Pre-pandemic, the Walmart in our area had a starting wage of $10 or $11 an hour. It's now $18.
    - brnaftr361 3y ago
      Can you verify the position, hours, benefits, and expectations of those offers? 'Cause I can offer (up to!) $18.50 and then negotiate down. I can also give somebody 10 hours a week and duly provide no benefits. When I worked there they took me on PT no benies, and only after proving myself did they extend an offer for FT employment. PT can be highly flexible as to the definition. Whether it's a permanent or temporary position is also something noteworthy. I think these are just some of the elements we should be considering if we're going to say wages have risen.
      - Auracle 3y ago
        I can. I do high school senior photography and I asked the kids last year where they worked, and how much they made doing it. Oddly, that doesn't seem rude to ask 17 year olds. The ones working at Walmart absolutely made $17 an hour (then). It's Walmart. They aren't playing games with stuff like that. I'm sure they're mostly doing under 32 hours a week where possible with their employees as usual.
silisili 3y ago
Same. I make decent money and used to save thousands per month. Now I'm lucky to stash away high hundreds a month, but any expense like new brakes wipes that out. I wonder how in the world everyone else is getting by. Maybe we're all just smiling and pretending here...
- xenospn 3y ago
  I live alone and just realized I’ve been spending $1300/month this year on groceries. For one person.
  - xgbi 3y ago
    I don’t understand how you can spend so much. Even with inflation we (family of 4, cooling all meals at home) are at less than 800€/$ per month. And we eat meat nearly all meals.
  - josephd79 3y ago
    325/week ?? You live in a big city? We spend that for a family of 5 but we don’t buy a lot of snacks….
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Groceries? That seems insane. I rarely eat out when I'm not traveling and I would be surprised if I spent a third that when I was home and don't especially go for cheap food.
  - silisili 3y ago
    Groceries are definitely my biggest pain point today. In 2018, for a family of 3, we used to spend about $120 to $150 per week in groceries. Justed check July, and we spent over $1400 in groceries. That's from Walmart, not Whole Foods or some such. And we're in a low to medium COL city. Sure, we could cut back to more staple stuff(more beans, less meats) if needed, I'm just illustrating how much the price of things have increased!
  - renewiltord 3y ago
qbasic_forever 3y ago
There is a _LOT_ of debt being added, household debt is up to something like 17 trillion dollars from like under 10 trillion pre pandemic. IMHO vehicles are huge drivers of debt. There are almost no cars under $30k now, and the average sale price of new cars is pushing up near $50k. This is for bog standard stuff like Hondas and Fords, not luxury cars. Used cars are incredibly expensive too. People are financing cars for well over 5 years now--I've heard of people on 6 and 7 year loans now just to make monthly payments possible. It's nuts.
- gruez 3y ago
  >IMHO vehicles are huge drivers of debt. There are almost no cars under $30k now, and the average sale price of new cars is pushing up near $50k. This is for bog standard stuff like Hondas and Fords, not luxury cars. I went on toyota.com and a base level corolla is only selling for $22,795. This includes a "Delivery, Processing & Handling" charge of $1,095. If for whatever reason you think that driving a compact car is beneath you, you can have a mid sized car (toyota camary) for only $27,515.
  - helloooooooo 3y ago
    Now get a dealer to order that base Corolla from factory. Hint: it ain’t happening’.
  - sylens 3y ago
    Exactly. It’s the SUVs and trucks that are suffering runaway prices. Driving a new Camry or Honda Accord is still doable
    - qbasic_forever 3y ago
      I just went to Toyota's site and mid range V6 Camry with a few options like navigation, driving assistance, etc. is over $45k sticker price. If you want a hybrid it's over $50k. For a Camry!
  - kittensmittens 3y ago
syntaxing 3y ago
SAME! I barely saved this year so far and I haven’t been splurging on anything. The car I bought before the inflation burst is now 25% more now. I make good money relatively but I still feel like we’re drowning. Every grocery run is over $200 even if don’t get meat, just the fruits alone are eye watering nowadays.
deleted 3y ago
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matsemann 3y ago
In addition to inflation, the 4 percent points bump on interests also hurts. (Where I live we mostly have non-fixed mortgages)
Waterluvian 3y ago
I think a lot of people get into a mindset that a 25 year mortgage is meant to be paid off in 25 years, so that mindset guides their entire frame of reference for how large a lifestyle to adopt. I’m not saying to rush through a mortgage. Do whatever you want. But consider not getting into a situation where you’re somehow struggling even though you’re one of the lucky few who can afford to even own a home. When times get tough they’re no more secure than those who make less. I’ve seen this with many peers who have Teslas and 1.5M homes who are now struggling despite such an income.
- fullshark 3y ago
  Is it not meant to be paid off in 25 years?
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Definitely pays off to invest more than the minimum required payments over 25 years. Not going to find better non callable leverage.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Why? I refinanced in 2021 and my mortgage rate is 1.97% fixed.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        I meant invest into other equities, such as the public stock market, not invest into paying down the home principal.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    shrug It kind of depends on your mortgage rate. If your rate is low it technically makes more sense to invest your money, as that'll have a great return. If your mortgage rate is high, you might be better off paying extra each month against the principle as it'll drastically reduce how much you pay in interest over the course of the loan.
xwdv 3y ago
Debt slaves.
ren_engineer 3y ago
401K early withdrawals are up almost 40% YoY and credit card debt is also up massively. If interest rate increases do lead to eventual job losses things will get ugly fast real estate is the thing to watch, if even a small number job losses happen people will have no choice but to sell even if they want to keep their low interest rate(home prices have stayed relatively flat because everybody is staying put, so low inventory on paper). Interest rate increases have resulted in significantly lower buying power, so home prices will have to drop. Forced sales will cause others to rush for the exit and cause even further price drops
coolbreezetft22 3y ago
With kid moving up to public school from pre-k we'll be saving an extra 2500$/month now. And in a couple years when our younger one is old enough that'll be another 2500$/month saved so I'm feeling pretty optimistic.
- Auracle 3y ago
  Those prices are insane. I'm in a rural area but our daycare is $150 a week.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Now that is an insane price. I don’t think it even pencils out assuming the daycare is following minimum teacher student ratios and minimum wage, which means there is under the table pay going on or corners being cut somewhere.
    - Auracle 3y ago
      It's a home daycare. She has 5 kids that she watches, and only one infant. I think that might be the maximum she's allowed - certainly only one infant. The infant price is more expensive as well. Keep in mind that daycare centers themselves need to profit, so going "direct" would be cheaper.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        Yes, so that is a different product than the previous poster’s $2.5k per month daycare. If workers are hard to find in your rural area, a comparable daycare might not be too far from $2.5k per month.
        Auracle 3y ago
        We looked at a (YMCA) daycare center and it was more expensive, but certainly not as expensive as that. The infant section in particular was...dystopian, though. Also, no windows. They built it in an old mall. I couldn't get past those two things.
Aurornis 3y ago
> I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. You can never judge people's financial situations from their spending habits. Someone in my extended family spent years living large, buying new cars, building new houses, and wearing nice clothes. They had a family business and always said that the business wad doing well. Several years later the husband died unexpectedly. His wife was suddenly struggling to make ends meet, despite nothing actually changing with their "business". As we later discovered, they were experts at amassing debt. The business wasn't really successful but they had used every possible angle to get more lines of credit, debt, "investments", and loans. They had even made a habit of "buying" supplies from vendors with Net 30 terms, reselling them, and then never paying the vendors back. They moved from state to state to scam new vendors every time they were blacklisted by the all of their local vendors. That's an extreme example, but it highlights how appearances can differ so much from reality. More commonly, I think a lot of people just never learned how to save anything at all. I know an alarming number of people in their 30s who still haven't bothered saving anything more than the $1-10K they have in their checking account at a given time. When the number goes up, they spend it back down. You could have the same net income as these people but never achieve their level of lifestyle spending because you're doing some savings. On the other end of the spectrum, many people are actually doing well. Wages are up (contrary to what you see on social media) and people's investments have done very well in recent years. Many of my friends are doing quite well for themselves by simply getting working a little harder to get jobs that pay a little above average and then carefully budgeting and investing over the long haul. Do this for a couple decades with some careful attention paid to where you live and the job you get and it's not hard to get a rather comfortable financial position by 40, especially in tech.
HenryBemis 3y ago
I have been listening to plenty of "finance gurus" (i.e. my favorite is Dave Ramsey). I see (here in EU) that young people have 1-2 credit cards. I understand that in the US the number is higher. The dream for any young (female) professional at the tender age of 25 is to own a couple of very expensive bags ("because I deserve it" using credit cards of course). Consumerism going steady. At least in the US you have the 401k. When I begin a discussion with friends/ acquaintances on "hey guys anyone got a decent EFT? I go my VOOG and SOXX all set up but I am looking to diversify further with some water, consumer, international, etc" and they look at me as if I speak some ancient language. So.. most save minimal, invest nothing. Paycheck-to-paycheck is a big thing in the US and it is happening in the EU now. (and don't get me started on parents of 14yo kids buying their kids the new iPhone every darn year)
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > (and don't get me started on parents of 14yo kids buying their kids the new iPhone every darn year) Yes, you should not get started because according to Apple’s 10-K, it does not happen on any meaningful scale. Objectively, phones are being used for longer and longer time periods.
scarface_74 3y ago
I really struggled trying to reply to this without sounding snarky and that’s not my intention. But it’s simple numbers. They spend less than you do or make more.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything There is a lot of regional variation in production [1] and income [2][3]. On the whole, real disposable income and savings rates are up [4]. But someone in the midwest (income up, annualized, 7 to 11% Q4 '22 to Q1 '23) or Florida (7.9%) is seeing a very different economic landscape than someone in California (0.7%) or Indiana (-1%) [5]. [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-and-personal-income-state-1st-quarter-2023 https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-a... [2] https://www.bea.gov/system/files/rpp1222b_0.png https://www.bea.gov/system/files/rpp1222b_0.png [3] https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income-county-metro-and-other-areas https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income-count... [4] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/personal-income-and-outlays-june-2023 https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/personal-income-and-outlays-ju... [5] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-and-personal-income-state-1st-quarter-2023#home https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-a...
asdgioanionio 3y ago
Because their pay also increased. People can generally afford higher prices. Real wages have remained remarkably stable in the last few years. The article itself says this. Somehow, it manages to spin it into bad news. >Even though prices have soared, real earnings, which adjust for inflation, are stuck at late 2019 levels. People can afford the same lifestyles they could a few years ago. The US weathered the outbreak of war in Europe and the worst pandemic in generations without serious economic hardship. Somehow, in CNN's view, this is a problem. Real wages haven't been stable. They haven't been resilient. No, they've been "stuck".
lacrimacida 3y ago
> As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. I hear you perfectly. What I did a while ago was to fully embrace a more frugal lifestyle where attention and time are the most valued. So consumption went to a minimum and all that. Now after prices jumped up we’re where we started and despite being frugal we’re left with a lot less. It is quite unsettling to be honest…
markus_zhang 3y ago
Many SWE, for example, are getting good salaries so they can definitely afford that. Just a few hundred samples cam skew one's observations.
wonderwonder 3y ago
It's death by a thousand cuts. New backpack for the oldest, new shoes for the youngest, oil change for the wife's car, leaf guards for the gutters so they don't clog the French drain I had to have installed due to my living room flooding. Dog has to get shots or heartworm meds... Choose the month and there is guaranteed to be $250 - $2000 in incidentals as a homeowner with kids. Wife's student loans kick in next month, $750 a month. It's crippling and I am lucky enough to do fairly well financially. I'm complaining but I'm aware that millions have it way worse than I do.
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Single Father of three here. I’m not swimming in debt but I’m definitely reducing my spend every month significantly. The price of meat is going wild - on track to double this year
oneTbrain23 3y ago
Considering China and middle east largely dumping USD transactions and debts, you will see whatever pricing you have today to double in coming 10 years (assuming Joe and very similar to Joe quality controlling America government for coming decade - mostly now fraud so elections result wont change much). Park your money away from USD (e.g. gold or Bruneian dollar) and prepare your kids for other things than America-centric such as learning to code, and learning Chinese. My nieces are even learning Russians and Koreans beside Chinese and they are in their 20s.
prepend 3y ago
I switched from regular grocery stores to aldi/lidl/walmart. And from eating out 2-4 times a month to eating out 1-2 times. I also switched to more staple foods like lentils and beans and rice and canned vegetables instead of fresh vegetables. And to buying ground beef on sale and freezing. It seems kind of crazy that prices keep going up and even simple “luxuries” like a coffee while networking went from $3.5 for a small latte at my local coffee shop in 2019 is now $5.5. I think for some people it doesn’t seem to affect them and they just pay the higher prices but base costs seem to have really gone up a lot for my family. Fortunately some big expenses are fixed (mortgage and transport) but if they had to change it would be extra rough.

throwaway2203 3y ago

yup, with daycare costs we're technically top 10% and still kinda hand to mouth in a MCOL area.

coffeebeqn 3y ago
My savings accounts look wistfully as I spend more on daycare per kid per month than I used to pay for rent not too long ago
candiddevmike 3y ago
I think the concept of cost of living areas is out the window. Mortgage and rent may be relatively COL dependent (kinda, but everyone is incentived to even it out nationwide), but for everything else I actually think the competition within big cities/"HCOL areas" drives down prices. In my "LCOL" flyover area I'm seeing $30+ pizza and $18 burgers, along with $10 beers at bars. It's insane.
- mjn 3y ago
  That matches my experience. Of places I've spent significant time in the past year, the one with the most reasonably priced food for eating out is NYC, of all places. It has very expensive places too, of course, but a lot more sub-$10 options than anywhere else I've been recently. There are even a few 99-cent pizza slice places still in business (not as many as 10 years ago, but they exist, and $2-3/slice places are abundant).
- gruez 3y ago
  > In my "LCOL" flyover area I'm seeing $30+ pizza and $18 burgers, along with $10 beers at bars. It's insane. "$30+ pizza and $18 burgers" doesn't say much when you consider that there's a huge price/quality range between basic and premium offerings. For instance, a $18 waygu beef burger at a gastro pub doesn't seem very out of place at all, but a $18 mcdonalds burger would be outrageously expensive.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  I live in a—4th tier is selling it short, but 3rd tier seems generous, call it 3.5th tier—city, and am always shocked at how much cheaper good restaurant food, baked goods, et c. are in "real" cities compared to here. Anything non-shit is basically 20-50% more expensive here than in HCOL cities. Makes no sense, these places should have like 1/5 the rent costs and lower labor costs than the major coastal cities, yet, prices are sky-high and quality's often not even that good. Groceries are about the same price. More expensive for some things, cheaper for others. Health care's more expensive here, with lower quality, because it's a flyover red state. HCOL only seems to apply to housing. Everything else is about the same or cheaper in "HCOL" cities. May not hold for other smaller/poorer cities, but very much does for ours.

fullshark 3y ago

> Is everyone swimming in debt? Probably https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCLACBW027SBOG

fuckthisshit3 3y ago
Debt is a socialized hallucination. If people refuse to give up on it, we can just take the money back from the rich too through taxes. Reaganomics legalized looting pensions to invest on Wall Street. There's precedent for expropriation of wealth of the dying. What are a bunch of retirees going to do? Fight back against 20-30 somethings? Boomers benefited from New Deal then killed it. There is no market, just a legalized generational Ponzi scheme.
01100011 3y ago
Not so bad when adjusted for inflation but not great: https://usafacts.org/articles/the-state-of-household-debt-in-the-us/ https://usafacts.org/articles/the-state-of-household-debt-in... I'm not sure what it looks like if you adjust for population growth. Debt to GDP is looking good, but with wealth inequality as bad as it is(thanks Jerome!) I'm not sure that matters as much.

01100011 3y ago

I don't know how most people are doing it. For me it's because the asset bubble has inflated my stock income. I suspect a lot of folks who owned homes, stocks and other assets are feeling the wealth effect. For the rest of society, I don't know why they're not in the streets with pitchforks.

Geee 3y ago
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford
- 542458 3y ago
  Not an actual Henry Ford quote fwiw. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry-ford-predict-revolution-if-people-understood-the-banking-and-monetary#27316 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18247/did-henry...
  - eurleif 3y ago
    Your link says it's a paraphrase rather than an exact quote. It still represents his sentiment accurately. But quoting Henry Ford, particularly his views on nefarious bankers, is a pretty questionable choice considering what he had to say about Jews.
    - spiderice 3y ago
      This is a logical fallacy. His view on Jews has no effect on whether his statements on nefarious bankers are true. You can quote me saying 1+1=2, even if 2 is my favorite number. Now if he’s being misleading and you have evidence of that, then his feeling toward Jews might explain why he is biased
      - eurleif 3y ago
        You misunderstand the scope of formal fallacies, which only apply to formal arguments. Most arguments aren't formal arguments, and that's ok; they aren't supposed to be. Instead of proving a conclusion from a set of premises, they rely on heuristics to draw probabilistic inferences. In the context of a formal argument, the act of quoting Henry Ford would have been either the fallacy of appeal to authority (if the quote's provenance were meant to demonstrate its veracity), or the fallacy of bare assertion (if it were meant to stand on its own). I didn't invoke those fallacies because I understand that, outside the context of a formal argument, appeal to authority is a reasonable heuristic, rather than a fallacy. There's nothing fallacious about saying, for example: "Most doctors recommend getting vaccinated, so you should probably get vaccinated." In this context, my reply is also not fallacious: it's reasonable to doubt the reasoning ability of a vicious anti-Semite, particularly on the subject of nefarious bankers, which is closely intertwined with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

paulpauper 3y ago

wages have gone up too

qbasic_forever 3y ago
Not nearly as much as inflation. Groceries alone are up something like 40% in the last 2-3 years. Your and everyone else's wages have not risen that fast on the whole.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Groceries are for many a tiny part of their expenses, and other things they buy are not up as much. Calculating inflation is difficult for the above reason.
- Auracle 3y ago
  On the whole? No. People that were making near minimum wage before absolutely have though, and I think that's been a huge driver of the inflation. Pre-pandemic, the Walmart in our area had a starting wage of $10 or $11 an hour. It's now $18.
  - brnaftr361 3y ago
    Can you verify the position, hours, benefits, and expectations of those offers? 'Cause I can offer (up to!) $18.50 and then negotiate down. I can also give somebody 10 hours a week and duly provide no benefits. When I worked there they took me on PT no benies, and only after proving myself did they extend an offer for FT employment. PT can be highly flexible as to the definition. Whether it's a permanent or temporary position is also something noteworthy. I think these are just some of the elements we should be considering if we're going to say wages have risen.
    - Auracle 3y ago
      I can. I do high school senior photography and I asked the kids last year where they worked, and how much they made doing it. Oddly, that doesn't seem rude to ask 17 year olds. The ones working at Walmart absolutely made $17 an hour (then). It's Walmart. They aren't playing games with stuff like that. I'm sure they're mostly doing under 32 hours a week where possible with their employees as usual.

silisili 3y ago

Same. I make decent money and used to save thousands per month. Now I'm lucky to stash away high hundreds a month, but any expense like new brakes wipes that out. I wonder how in the world everyone else is getting by. Maybe we're all just smiling and pretending here...

xenospn 3y ago
I live alone and just realized I’ve been spending $1300/month this year on groceries. For one person.
- xgbi 3y ago
  I don’t understand how you can spend so much. Even with inflation we (family of 4, cooling all meals at home) are at less than 800€/$ per month. And we eat meat nearly all meals.
- josephd79 3y ago
  325/week ?? You live in a big city? We spend that for a family of 5 but we don’t buy a lot of snacks….
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Groceries? That seems insane. I rarely eat out when I'm not traveling and I would be surprised if I spent a third that when I was home and don't especially go for cheap food.
- silisili 3y ago
  Groceries are definitely my biggest pain point today. In 2018, for a family of 3, we used to spend about $120 to $150 per week in groceries. Justed check July, and we spent over $1400 in groceries. That's from Walmart, not Whole Foods or some such. And we're in a low to medium COL city. Sure, we could cut back to more staple stuff(more beans, less meats) if needed, I'm just illustrating how much the price of things have increased!
- renewiltord 3y ago

qbasic_forever 3y ago

There is a _LOT_ of debt being added, household debt is up to something like 17 trillion dollars from like under 10 trillion pre pandemic. IMHO vehicles are huge drivers of debt. There are almost no cars under $30k now, and the average sale price of new cars is pushing up near $50k. This is for bog standard stuff like Hondas and Fords, not luxury cars. Used cars are incredibly expensive too. People are financing cars for well over 5 years now--I've heard of people on 6 and 7 year loans now just to make monthly payments possible. It's nuts.

gruez 3y ago
>IMHO vehicles are huge drivers of debt. There are almost no cars under $30k now, and the average sale price of new cars is pushing up near $50k. This is for bog standard stuff like Hondas and Fords, not luxury cars. I went on toyota.com and a base level corolla is only selling for $22,795. This includes a "Delivery, Processing & Handling" charge of $1,095. If for whatever reason you think that driving a compact car is beneath you, you can have a mid sized car (toyota camary) for only $27,515.
- helloooooooo 3y ago
  Now get a dealer to order that base Corolla from factory. Hint: it ain’t happening’.
- sylens 3y ago
  Exactly. It’s the SUVs and trucks that are suffering runaway prices. Driving a new Camry or Honda Accord is still doable
  - qbasic_forever 3y ago
    I just went to Toyota's site and mid range V6 Camry with a few options like navigation, driving assistance, etc. is over $45k sticker price. If you want a hybrid it's over $50k. For a Camry!
- kittensmittens 3y ago

syntaxing 3y ago

SAME! I barely saved this year so far and I haven’t been splurging on anything. The car I bought before the inflation burst is now 25% more now. I make good money relatively but I still feel like we’re drowning. Every grocery run is over $200 even if don’t get meat, just the fruits alone are eye watering nowadays.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

matsemann 3y ago

In addition to inflation, the 4 percent points bump on interests also hurts. (Where I live we mostly have non-fixed mortgages)

Waterluvian 3y ago

I think a lot of people get into a mindset that a 25 year mortgage is meant to be paid off in 25 years, so that mindset guides their entire frame of reference for how large a lifestyle to adopt. I’m not saying to rush through a mortgage. Do whatever you want. But consider not getting into a situation where you’re somehow struggling even though you’re one of the lucky few who can afford to even own a home. When times get tough they’re no more secure than those who make less. I’ve seen this with many peers who have Teslas and 1.5M homes who are now struggling despite such an income.

fullshark 3y ago
Is it not meant to be paid off in 25 years?
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Definitely pays off to invest more than the minimum required payments over 25 years. Not going to find better non callable leverage.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Why? I refinanced in 2021 and my mortgage rate is 1.97% fixed.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      I meant invest into other equities, such as the public stock market, not invest into paying down the home principal.
- Auracle 3y ago
  shrug It kind of depends on your mortgage rate. If your rate is low it technically makes more sense to invest your money, as that'll have a great return. If your mortgage rate is high, you might be better off paying extra each month against the principle as it'll drastically reduce how much you pay in interest over the course of the loan.

xwdv 3y ago

Debt slaves.

ren_engineer 3y ago

401K early withdrawals are up almost 40% YoY and credit card debt is also up massively. If interest rate increases do lead to eventual job losses things will get ugly fast real estate is the thing to watch, if even a small number job losses happen people will have no choice but to sell even if they want to keep their low interest rate(home prices have stayed relatively flat because everybody is staying put, so low inventory on paper). Interest rate increases have resulted in significantly lower buying power, so home prices will have to drop. Forced sales will cause others to rush for the exit and cause even further price drops

coolbreezetft22 3y ago

With kid moving up to public school from pre-k we'll be saving an extra 2500$/month now. And in a couple years when our younger one is old enough that'll be another 2500$/month saved so I'm feeling pretty optimistic.

Auracle 3y ago
Those prices are insane. I'm in a rural area but our daycare is $150 a week.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Now that is an insane price. I don’t think it even pencils out assuming the daycare is following minimum teacher student ratios and minimum wage, which means there is under the table pay going on or corners being cut somewhere.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    It's a home daycare. She has 5 kids that she watches, and only one infant. I think that might be the maximum she's allowed - certainly only one infant. The infant price is more expensive as well. Keep in mind that daycare centers themselves need to profit, so going "direct" would be cheaper.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Yes, so that is a different product than the previous poster’s $2.5k per month daycare. If workers are hard to find in your rural area, a comparable daycare might not be too far from $2.5k per month.
      - Auracle 3y ago
        We looked at a (YMCA) daycare center and it was more expensive, but certainly not as expensive as that. The infant section in particular was...dystopian, though. Also, no windows. They built it in an old mall. I couldn't get past those two things.

Aurornis 3y ago

> I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. You can never judge people's financial situations from their spending habits. Someone in my extended family spent years living large, buying new cars, building new houses, and wearing nice clothes. They had a family business and always said that the business wad doing well. Several years later the husband died unexpectedly. His wife was suddenly struggling to make ends meet, despite nothing actually changing with their "business". As we later discovered, they were experts at amassing debt. The business wasn't really successful but they had used every possible angle to get more lines of credit, debt, "investments", and loans. They had even made a habit of "buying" supplies from vendors with Net 30 terms, reselling them, and then never paying the vendors back. They moved from state to state to scam new vendors every time they were blacklisted by the all of their local vendors. That's an extreme example, but it highlights how appearances can differ so much from reality. More commonly, I think a lot of people just never learned how to save anything at all. I know an alarming number of people in their 30s who still haven't bothered saving anything more than the $1-10K they have in their checking account at a given time. When the number goes up, they spend it back down. You could have the same net income as these people but never achieve their level of lifestyle spending because you're doing some savings. On the other end of the spectrum, many people are actually doing well. Wages are up (contrary to what you see on social media) and people's investments have done very well in recent years. Many of my friends are doing quite well for themselves by simply getting working a little harder to get jobs that pay a little above average and then carefully budgeting and investing over the long haul. Do this for a couple decades with some careful attention paid to where you live and the job you get and it's not hard to get a rather comfortable financial position by 40, especially in tech.

HenryBemis 3y ago

I have been listening to plenty of "finance gurus" (i.e. my favorite is Dave Ramsey). I see (here in EU) that young people have 1-2 credit cards. I understand that in the US the number is higher. The dream for any young (female) professional at the tender age of 25 is to own a couple of very expensive bags ("because I deserve it" using credit cards of course). Consumerism going steady. At least in the US you have the 401k. When I begin a discussion with friends/ acquaintances on "hey guys anyone got a decent EFT? I go my VOOG and SOXX all set up but I am looking to diversify further with some water, consumer, international, etc" and they look at me as if I speak some ancient language. So.. most save minimal, invest nothing. Paycheck-to-paycheck is a big thing in the US and it is happening in the EU now. (and don't get me started on parents of 14yo kids buying their kids the new iPhone every darn year)

lotsofpulp 3y ago
> (and don't get me started on parents of 14yo kids buying their kids the new iPhone every darn year) Yes, you should not get started because according to Apple’s 10-K, it does not happen on any meaningful scale. Objectively, phones are being used for longer and longer time periods.

scarface_74 3y ago

I really struggled trying to reply to this without sounding snarky and that’s not my intention. But it’s simple numbers. They spend less than you do or make more.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything There is a lot of regional variation in production [1] and income [2][3]. On the whole, real disposable income and savings rates are up [4]. But someone in the midwest (income up, annualized, 7 to 11% Q4 '22 to Q1 '23) or Florida (7.9%) is seeing a very different economic landscape than someone in California (0.7%) or Indiana (-1%) [5]. [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-and-personal-income-state-1st-quarter-2023 https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-a... [2] https://www.bea.gov/system/files/rpp1222b_0.png https://www.bea.gov/system/files/rpp1222b_0.png [3] https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income-county-metro-and-other-areas https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income-count... [4] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/personal-income-and-outlays-june-2023 https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/personal-income-and-outlays-ju... [5] https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-and-personal-income-state-1st-quarter-2023#home https://www.bea.gov/news/2023/gross-domestic-product-state-a...

asdgioanionio 3y ago

Because their pay also increased. People can generally afford higher prices. Real wages have remained remarkably stable in the last few years. The article itself says this. Somehow, it manages to spin it into bad news. >Even though prices have soared, real earnings, which adjust for inflation, are stuck at late 2019 levels. People can afford the same lifestyles they could a few years ago. The US weathered the outbreak of war in Europe and the worst pandemic in generations without serious economic hardship. Somehow, in CNN's view, this is a problem. Real wages haven't been stable. They haven't been resilient. No, they've been "stuck".

lacrimacida 3y ago

> As a parent with kids, I really don't know how folks are getting by with the prices of everything. I know folks who keep eating out, buying new vehicles, and even building new houses and I'm left scratching my head wondering how they afford all of this. I hear you perfectly. What I did a while ago was to fully embrace a more frugal lifestyle where attention and time are the most valued. So consumption went to a minimum and all that. Now after prices jumped up we’re where we started and despite being frugal we’re left with a lot less. It is quite unsettling to be honest…

markus_zhang 3y ago

Many SWE, for example, are getting good salaries so they can definitely afford that. Just a few hundred samples cam skew one's observations.

wonderwonder 3y ago

It's death by a thousand cuts. New backpack for the oldest, new shoes for the youngest, oil change for the wife's car, leaf guards for the gutters so they don't clog the French drain I had to have installed due to my living room flooding. Dog has to get shots or heartworm meds... Choose the month and there is guaranteed to be $250 - $2000 in incidentals as a homeowner with kids. Wife's student loans kick in next month, $750 a month. It's crippling and I am lucky enough to do fairly well financially. I'm complaining but I'm aware that millions have it way worse than I do.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

Single Father of three here. I’m not swimming in debt but I’m definitely reducing my spend every month significantly. The price of meat is going wild - on track to double this year

oneTbrain23 3y ago

Considering China and middle east largely dumping USD transactions and debts, you will see whatever pricing you have today to double in coming 10 years (assuming Joe and very similar to Joe quality controlling America government for coming decade - mostly now fraud so elections result wont change much). Park your money away from USD (e.g. gold or Bruneian dollar) and prepare your kids for other things than America-centric such as learning to code, and learning Chinese. My nieces are even learning Russians and Koreans beside Chinese and they are in their 20s.

prepend 3y ago

I switched from regular grocery stores to aldi/lidl/walmart. And from eating out 2-4 times a month to eating out 1-2 times. I also switched to more staple foods like lentils and beans and rice and canned vegetables instead of fresh vegetables. And to buying ground beef on sale and freezing. It seems kind of crazy that prices keep going up and even simple “luxuries” like a coffee while networking went from $3.5 for a small latte at my local coffee shop in 2019 is now $5.5. I think for some people it doesn’t seem to affect them and they just pay the higher prices but base costs seem to have really gone up a lot for my family. Fortunately some big expenses are fixed (mortgage and transport) but if they had to change it would be extra rough.