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Net neutrality long assumed that backbones would merely slow down traffic, not block it entirely for opaque reasons. They're only supposed to intervene to prev

Net neutrality long assumed that backbones would merely slow down traffic, not block it entirely for opaque reasons. They're only supposed to intervene to prevent technical disruptions. I haven't spent that much time looking at KF, but they do appear to follow US law and will ban people who break it (and cooperate with US law enforcement). The site is a bit of a corner case: legal but extremely reviled. They use incredibly foul language, and they seem quite proud to be on the "wrong side of history". But I still contend that no amount of mere unpopularity should knock a site entirely off the internet.

stephenr 3y ago
I don't think you get to take the "well this is technically legal, let's give them the benefit of the doubt" argument when your members actions have directly caused three people to kill themselves.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - thrwaway1234567 3y ago
    What does this have to do with kiwifarms?
- IcyClAyMptHe 3y ago
  > directly caused three people to kill themselves this lie gets repeated so often and it's disappointing how willing people are to lap it up without an ounce of critical thought.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known-as-near-has-d-1847182851 https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known... https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-the-forum-exposed-her-2021-8 https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-...
    - IcyClAyMptHe 3y ago
      I am aware of the claims and the "news" sources regurgitating them. The evidence Kiwifarms is responsible for anything is remarkably shaky (lots of use of the term "has been linked to" and no real evidence for anything).
thrwaway1234567 3y ago
Kiwifarms, now banned, official twitter page said their goal was “exploitation of the mentally handicapped for amusement purposes”. ( Source: https://archive.is/jYp5p https://archive.is/jYp5p ). I think Kiwifarms is (borderline) criminal. Null, the admin of the site, outright said he was ok with users posting stolen financial information, such as Social Security Numbers and Credit cards. Source: https://archive.is/0fOcS https://archive.is/0fOcS . There are many examples of private financial information being posted on the site. I would describe them as operating with a paper thin layer of "plausible" deniability. Officially you aren't allowed to harass or interact with the targets. But posting their home address, stolen passwords, phone numbers, and information about relatives is all allowed. But even the rule against interacting with "lolcows" (called "cowtipping") is haphazardly enforced. For example, one user had sex with a "lolcow" and posted photos. The admin explicitly said they would allow the content to remain up: https://archive.is/zYnpK#35% https://archive.is/zYnpK#35% For those who aren't aware, kiwifarms is a website that was ostensibly something like a gossip forum, but in practice basically ended up being used for cyberstalking and harassment. They would frequently harass and doxx people. Their wikipedia page covers parts of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms
- dmatech 3y ago
  It definitely facilitates the commission of crimes, but doing that isn't a crime itself unless there is a clear conspiracy. It's just being irresponsible.
  - thrwaway1234567 3y ago
    Are you sure that the requirement for a clear conspiracy is present in the laws in all 50 states and federally? For instance, 18 U.S. Code § 1028 (a)(2) appears to criminalize transfer of identification documents as long as you know it was stolen or unlawfully obtained. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 The laws on credit card fraud require "unlawful or fraudulent intent" though. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1644 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1644 Even discounting the above, you could imagine why a provider may not want to serve a website that engages in that sort of borderline illegal behavior.

stephenr 3y ago

I don't think you get to take the "well this is technically legal, let's give them the benefit of the doubt" argument when your members actions have directly caused three people to kill themselves.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago
[flagged]
- thrwaway1234567 3y ago
  What does this have to do with kiwifarms?
IcyClAyMptHe 3y ago
> directly caused three people to kill themselves this lie gets repeated so often and it's disappointing how willing people are to lap it up without an ounce of critical thought.
- stephenr 3y ago
  https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known-as-near-has-d-1847182851 https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known... https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-the-forum-exposed-her-2021-8 https://www.insider.com/chris-chan-arrest-what-is-kiwifarms-...
  - IcyClAyMptHe 3y ago
    I am aware of the claims and the "news" sources regurgitating them. The evidence Kiwifarms is responsible for anything is remarkably shaky (lots of use of the term "has been linked to" and no real evidence for anything).

thrwaway1234567 3y ago

Kiwifarms, now banned, official twitter page said their goal was “exploitation of the mentally handicapped for amusement purposes”. ( Source: https://archive.is/jYp5p https://archive.is/jYp5p ). I think Kiwifarms is (borderline) criminal. Null, the admin of the site, outright said he was ok with users posting stolen financial information, such as Social Security Numbers and Credit cards. Source: https://archive.is/0fOcS https://archive.is/0fOcS . There are many examples of private financial information being posted on the site. I would describe them as operating with a paper thin layer of "plausible" deniability. Officially you aren't allowed to harass or interact with the targets. But posting their home address, stolen passwords, phone numbers, and information about relatives is all allowed. But even the rule against interacting with "lolcows" (called "cowtipping") is haphazardly enforced. For example, one user had sex with a "lolcow" and posted photos. The admin explicitly said they would allow the content to remain up: https://archive.is/zYnpK#35% https://archive.is/zYnpK#35% For those who aren't aware, kiwifarms is a website that was ostensibly something like a gossip forum, but in practice basically ended up being used for cyberstalking and harassment. They would frequently harass and doxx people. Their wikipedia page covers parts of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms

dmatech 3y ago
It definitely facilitates the commission of crimes, but doing that isn't a crime itself unless there is a clear conspiracy. It's just being irresponsible.
- thrwaway1234567 3y ago
  Are you sure that the requirement for a clear conspiracy is present in the laws in all 50 states and federally? For instance, 18 U.S. Code § 1028 (a)(2) appears to criminalize transfer of identification documents as long as you know it was stolen or unlawfully obtained. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 The laws on credit card fraud require "unlawful or fraudulent intent" though. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1644 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1644 Even discounting the above, you could imagine why a provider may not want to serve a website that engages in that sort of borderline illegal behavior.