17 ms·
Car Bloat: “Huge Cars Are Terrible for Society”
- david2ndaccount 3y agoThe problem is they don’t make full-sized cars anymore (the “land yachts”). To get a comfortable car, you need to buy a truck or essentially a truck (SUV).
- rglullis 3y agoThey do, they just don't sell them in the US
- TylerE 3y agoNo, they don't. He's talking about traditional American body-on-frame sedans. The last one of those was the Ford Crown Vic, and it's been out of production for the better part of two decades. There are not Audi A4s or Honda Civics.
- twiddling 3y agohttps://www.autoweek.com/car-life/a1707441/who-really-benefits-25-year-import-rule/ https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/a1707441/who-really-benefi...
- raverbashing 3y agoI think Corollas and Civics (or maybe the higher end models) fit the bill for regular sized cars that are still sold. And I think those who want the land yatchs went for SUVs already
- u801e 3y agoWhy wouldn't a minivan fit this purpose?
- cl0ckt0wer 3y agoThe stigma attached to minivans.
- smolyeet 3y agoBut then you’d have to drive a minivan
- rglullis 3y agoAnd?
- wonderwonder 3y agoLol, this is true. I drive minivan and it's incredibly convenient but I often think of getting a third car just for non kid related events.
- TylerE 3y agoModern minivans are crossover SUVs with sliding doors.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoHow? They are just as low as when I was a kid, and do not seem any bigger.
- TylerE 3y agoLook up the numbers! Best selling minivan: Chrysler Pacifica... 203 inches long, 80 inches wide, 70 inches tall The larger version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee, already one of the largest crossovers? 204 inches long, 78 inches wide, 71 tall. The weight in either case is about the same, 4400-4900lbs depending on options. It's not that minivans have gotten bigger... it's just that they were already HUGE, to the point where even SUVs are smaller.
- u801e 3y agoHow many crossover SUVs come with 3rd row seats? How many of those are comfortable for a average size adult? How many are easily accessible when parked in a tight space? None of these are issues with popular minivan models.
- gchamonlive 3y agoWhat would constitute a full-sized, comfortable car?
- king_geedorah 3y agoAs others in this subthread have indicated, the sedans on the Ford panther platform (Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis and Marauder, Lincoln Town Car) are in this category. I wouldn’t think twice about asking 4 adults to ride in my Crown Vic with me. I would definitely feel a little bad doing the same in some of the mid sized sedans that have been mentioned here.
- radlad 3y agoMy mid-size sedan is plenty comfortable...?
- jrwoodruff 3y agoYou may be underestimating the size of the average American these days... Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/04news/americans.htm#:~:text=Meanwhile%2C%20the%20average%20weight%20for,to%20164.3%20pounds%20in%202002 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/04news/americans.htm#:~:t....
- twiddling 3y agoSo many big boned people these days
- radlad 3y agoI fear that you (and others in this thread) may be underestimating the size of the driver/passenger seat of an American make's sedan (e.g. Ford, Chevy, etc... IOW, the same people who make these trucks.) Certainly, having owned multiple Mazdas and Hondas, Japanese cars tend to be smaller.
- Zambyte 3y agoIt seems like being fat is uncomfortable then, rather than cars designed for human bodies.
- _yb2s 3y agoInterior layouts have come a long ways, especially with EV designs where the geometry isn't constrained as much. As a big guy, the actual space I'm sitting in is more roomy and comfortable on many subcompacts than full sized cars used to be. Since people have gotten taller, there's also more emphasis on leg room. I remember big 1970s cars where the drivers seat just wouldn't go back far enough for me, whereas even the smallest subcompact modern cars do.
- mgkimsal 3y ago"They" don't make many non-trucks at all, at least for general sale to consumers. Perhaps rental fleets still get some? Ford stopped their Focus, which seemed to be one of the last 'us-based' sedans. My next car will probably be some Toyota or Honda camry/civic/accord/etc.
- amarshall 3y agoFord still makes the Focus and other non-truck cars, they just don’t sell them in the U.S. anymore.
- mgkimsal 3y agoFigures... Doesn't help folks in the US who just want small/light cars. :/. Such a shame. I routinely get north of 30mpg - careful driving, and long hauls get me north of 40mpg. That's with E85. Regular 87 octane I get more (35-44ish?)
- miguelazo 3y agoPretty sure the Camry, Accord, etc. are still available.
- mrguyorama 3y agoAnd the Current Corolla is the size of yesteryear's Camry, and the Current Camry is the size of yesteryear's Avalon, and they all grow so much I don't think anyone buys avalons anymore.
- miguelazo 3y agoActually, Toyota replaced the Avalon with the international model Crown for some reason.
- redox99 3y agoThose are mid size
- miguelazo 3y agoMaybe if you're over 6'5" and weigh over 300 pounds. By historical and international standards, they are huge.
- strictnein 3y agoThey do, but they're not as common. I can really only think of higher end vehicles - BMW 7/i7, Audi A7/A8, Lexus LS, etc, but I'm sure I'm missing some. Some midsized cars of today have grown to the size a full-sized car from 25 years ago. For example, a BMW 3 series is roughly the size of a 5 series from 1998 (185.9" vs 188"). A 5 series from today is the size of the 7 series from 1998 (195.8" vs 196.2").
- ArtemZ 3y agoAll your examples are mid sized cars smaller than Crown Vic / Mercury Grand Marquis. I own 2009 Grand Marquis and I don't want anything smaller and less reliable which means I want to have a V8, body on frame and normal transmission (not a CVT). So nowadays my only options are large SUVs
- strictnein 3y agoThey may not have the extra requirements you added, but they're roughly the same size. BMW 7 series is slightly larger overall. 2009 Grand Marquis: 212″ L x 78″ W x 56″ H 2024 BMW 7/i7: 212″ L x 77″ W x 61″ H 2024 Audi A8: 209″ L x 77″ W x 59″ H 2024 Lexus LS: 206″ L x 75″ W x 58″ H
- xyzzyz 3y agoThe land yachts were only barely lighter than modern SUVs or trucks. The weight difference between Crown Vic and a new Ford F-150 is 2 extra passengers worth of weight. F-150 gets better gas mileage and lower emissions too.
- Havoc 3y agoPeople spec their cars for the biggest usage case they can imagine, not their average trip. Cities could combat this by setting up a rent a big f off truck for 24hrs program I suspect. For that one time in the year when you have to haul some lumber. The male ego part is a little harder to solve.
- raverbashing 3y agoYou can rent an SUV for when you actually need it from any major rental company, I don't see the issue (and it should be able to take the heavier things, right?!?)
- gpm 3y ago> Cities could combat this by setting up a rent a big f off truck for 24hrs program I suspect. Doesn't uhaul already fill this niche?
- giraffe_lady 3y agoHaving used uhaul recently I could be convinced it is itself part of a conspiracy to get people to buy bigger personal vehicles. I can't remember dealing with another business whose contempt for their own customers is so clearly communicated through every part of the process.
- xyzzyz 3y agoI am a heavy UHaul user, and at least here, it is crucially important to know which location to use. Where I am, some locations are consistently fine, others are okay but busy, and some are busy and atrocious.
- xgl5k 3y agoI've had much better experiences renting a truck on Turo than Uhaul
- Finnucane 3y agoNo, they mean actually having the vehicle available when you ask for it.
- bovermyer 3y agoWell this, plus also cities that are designed for cars first. I would love to see more cities design for people/pedestrians first, with denser multi-zone areas. I wish more people could walk to a neighborhood grocery, bar, library, etc.
- VFIT7CTO77TOC 3y agoIt seems to me there is a chicken and egg problem with (non-car) infrastructure and the demand for that infrastructure. Nobody wants to get on a train full of homeless people or a bus that's always late or a sidewalk that has no shade. There is little incentive for city leaders and planners to invest in things that nobody uses.
- moritzwarhier 3y ago"Incentive" is a codeword for structural corruption, IMVHO. It's no surprise that subsidized burning of fossil fuels "generates growth". The growth of cancerous structures that make the average life worse.
- exabrial 3y agoAre we really out of news cycles right now and large cars is where we landed? Can we focus the hype train on literally any other problem that has actual consequences? Treat the disease, not the symptoms. Large cars are a symptom of overcrowded cities and unsafe, unclean transportation. Replacing them the 3x small cars isn’t going to fix anything.
- cmcconomy 3y agocounterpoint: yes it will
- rs999gti 3y ago> Are we really out of news cycles right now and large cars is where we landed? People with no real problems, have to make up problems. Last week it was Canadian Wildfires and the summer heat. It's cooling down now, since it is becoming fall. So let's complain about something else. :/ Large cars suck, but the USA and CA do not have a market for small cars. Unless the government forces the market down that road.
- psd1 3y agoThat's wildly incorrect. How do you make such a silly claim? Is this satire? Bad public transport may drive up car usage in general, but not specifically large cars. City density is much higher in cities outside the US but they don't have car obesity like you do. No. Large cars are the consequence of questionable tax regimes, marketing, and Americans' psychological insecurities. Replacing them will solve the problems listed in TFA. They are not contentious points.
- unpopularopp 3y agoI'm 201 cms, there are no comfortable small cars (~VW Golf). In most cars you can only lower the driving seat and pull back the front seats. But once I'm not in the driving seat I'm so cramped it's not fun. Literally hit the ceiling with my head. My partner has an Opel Combo which is comfy but it's a family car, personally I'd not buy anything like that.
- Y_Y 3y agoI knew a super tall guy who had an old VW Golf. He removed the driver's seat and was able to sit comfortably in rear seat while driving.
- solumunus 3y agoWell that’s obviously BS.
- Zigurd 3y agoI drive a C-Class Benz in the US. It's tiny compared to the rest of traffic.
- amarshall 3y agoSure, but you’re in the 99.9+ percentile for height. The vast majority of people do not have human height as a reason for selecting a large car.
- bombcar 3y agoAt 6' 8" (in freedom units) you're taller than average and most "lay down" cars aren't going to work. You need something where you sit upright (like a minivan/SUV). Nothing really prevents a "taller car" besides some worry about tip-over, but they don't really exist. By lay down I mean if your legs are NOT bent at the knee, you're gonna have a hard time.
- ambicapter 3y agoYou are literally less than 1 percentile of the US male height population. Are you saying all cars should be built to your comfort standards?
- wonderwonder 3y agoWonder how much of this is just due to how massive the us is and how far we drive. I have kids so drive a minivan. It's got 3 rows of seats and storage behind. I genuinely use all the rows fairly often or if not in use I fold them down for larger space in the back. Space I often use. Not saying I couldn't make due with a smaller car but it would definitely make things more complicated.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Y_Y 3y agoIf it's so big maybe you shouldn't drive across it so much
- vorpalhex 3y agoPeople want to visit family, go interesting places and live their lives. Any solution that requires people to live like it's the 1500s is probably a nonstarter.
- makapuf 3y agoAgreed, especially if those people are my grand grandchildren, its my responsibility. And if I need to live in the 70s for some aspects of my life well so be it. I don't want future generations role-playing Fallout. So I try my best to reduce the emissions. Bike, have less and smaller cars. Its not the middle ages and you still can have a quality life.
- frumper 3y agoPeople took a lot of road trips in the 70s...probably in a fairly inefficient station wagon.
- makapuf 3y agoExactly my point, it was not the middle ages, and yet: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/trfvolusm227nfwa https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/trfvolusm227nfwa (better if those are done is less polluting vehicles) and in the country of cars, other countries were not living on dirt roads
- cs702 3y agoPlease link to the original source: https://mastodon.social/@davidzipper/110843841107933007 https://mastodon.social/@davidzipper/110843841107933007
- joemi 3y agoIn cases like this, I'm not sure whether a social media thread or blog post about the social thread is better. Neither is great.
- gpm 3y agoLink should probably be replaced with the direct link: https://mastodon.social/@davidzipper/110843841107933007 https://mastodon.social/@davidzipper/110843841107933007
- sharkjacobs 3y agoSo many issues in society can be quickly, intuitively, and uncontroversially identified as a “tragedy of the commons” situation. But it’s a hard sell to give up a personal advantage for a collective betterment.
- 1270018080 3y agoWell, it's easy. That's the one of the main purposes of governments.
- baggy_trough 3y agoPoorly designed legislation is the reason American cars are so large.
- sebzim4500 3y agoDo other countries have laws discouraging large cars? I just assumed that people drive small cars in Europe because driving a large car would be a logistical nightmare. You'd never be able to park for a start.
- baggy_trough 3y agoMy point is that American laws encourage large cars.
- sebzim4500 3y agoWhich laws? I've never lived in the US
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- baggy_trough 3y agoHere's one article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-suvs-size-explainer-idUSKBN21D1KK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-suvs-size...
- twiddling 3y agoIt is an arms race. There is a video floating around of a pickup truck who needs to use his front camera to see a Miata in front of him
- dvt 3y agoAs you might expect from such a polarizing issue and thread, doing some research shows that the JD Power and Associates stat (80% of sold cars are trucks and SUVs) is extremely misleading, and probably meant to just be a headline-grabber. It includes glorified hatchbacks (that might be raised by 1-2 inches) like the Kona, CX-3, C-HR, HR-V, Crosstrek, Mercedes GLA, BMW X1, and Infiniti QX30.
- aczerepinski 3y agoIsn’t it still a problem as all these cars classified as trucks no longer have to meet car emissions and safety standards?
- dvt 3y agoI'm not sure what you mean. In California, at least, they do. But different states have different laws w.r.t. emission standards.
- xyzzyz 3y agoThe poster you are responding to is referring to misdesigned Obama-era CAFE efficiency standards, which created an incentive for companies to build bigger, heavier cars and classify them as light trucks or SUVs, because the customers did not like the cars that met the norms for the “car” classification. This is very much a federal issue.
- yodelshady 3y agoThey're all sold in Europe, where they're legally cars, meet car safety standards and fuel consumption is usually only slightly worse, about the amount you'd expect from raising a hatchback body 1-2 inches. The layout also has obvious advantages for EVs, although Tesla does manage a sedan form factor. They are meaningfully different from "Jesus Christ I may have just killed a child whilst parking, because I am driving something doing a decent impersonation of the industrial equipment normally associated with an open-cast quarry".
- tomtheelder 3y ago
- setgree 3y agoRelated: "Vehicles and Crashes: Why is this Moral Issue Overlooked?" https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447 Which argues that because larger cars are more likely to injure/kill someone in the event of a crash, buying a larger car makes you morally culpable for all such harms. Discussed more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35082315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35082315
- J_Shelby_J 3y agoMorally culpable, but also defensible since you’re defending yourself from others in large cars. Don’t hate the player. Hate the game. The real moral culpability is in the people that created and support the policies enabling the SUV Arma race.
- PaulHoule 3y agosee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
- lotsofpulp 3y agoI do not blame 60 year old laws. At some point before 60 years, voters and their representatives become responsible for not changing the law.
- PaulHoule 3y agoDetroit appreciates not having the competition so the law stays. See also https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/jonesact.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/jonesact.asp
- _Algernon_ 3y agoThe politicians making these decisions are also just playing a game. "Don't hate the player. Hate the game."
- curtisblaine 3y agoNow do the maths for jets, especially private ones.
- progbits 3y agoYes also bad. Two things can be at once.
- curtisblaine 3y agoYet it seems to me (from my limited sampling) that cars are overrepresented in this kind of articles.
- nostromo 3y agoCar registration shouldn't be based on the value of the car, it should be based on how heavy the car is. Because heavier cars cause more wear on the road, they should pay more for road repair. We should also ease a lot of regulation from states regarding minimum road width, minimum parking spot sizes, minimum height of parking garages, minimum number of parking spots for residential and commercial development. Much of this problem stems from bad regulation. (Developers generally don't want to have all this unproductive space in their buildings, but are forced to by local and state governments.)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- throwaway9870 3y agoMaybe it should be based on your driving record? The worst driver you are, the higher the cost to society when you are driving.
- newsclues 3y agoIsn't this how insurance works?
- hkarthik 3y agoUnfortunately most EVs are way heavier and cause more wear on roads, so we'd be paying an even higher green tax to reduce emissions and fossil fuel usage.
- mlok 3y agoAt the opposite end if the size spectrum, the Citroen Ami is enough for a majority of everyday needs in cities. So much space saved. https://electrek.co/2021/05/04/citroen-ami-small-electric-car-coming-to-us-subscription-service/ https://electrek.co/2021/05/04/citroen-ami-small-electric-ca...
- enriquec 3y agoso if you get in an accident in this.. you get completely crushed right?
- frumper 3y agoThe kids will get some nice fresh air and sunshine while riding on the roof. The older kid will get some exercise while running alongside it. I bet with some practice they can beat it in a race too. /s
- dzink 3y agoNot being able to see for 12 feet in front of your vehicle should be illegal. The only reason trucks are allowed to have that is because they are pegged as farm equipment. Treat them as farm equipment. Special license to drive if visibility is impacted, special taxation for large vehicle without a business use case, you name it.
- nvy 3y agoI'd love to see that but it will never happen because there's an enormous demographic whose identity is largely wrapped up in "driving a pickup".
- blackfawn 3y agoUnfortunately small trucks have pretty much disappeared in the US and partly due to government rules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM
- llsf 3y agoWe are likely reaching a point where it is becoming absurd, to have a huge, 4,000lbs vehicle carrying one person most of the time. Feels like an arm escalation, I need a bigger and heavier vehicle so I feel safer. Not sure what is the best way to bring some sense to this trend. Regulation could put some boundaries I guess. Clearly there is little incentives for car manufacturers to go small & light. If that trend keeps going, I could see some cities banning cars in some streets (e.g. only bikes or pedestrians) as having foot traffic close to car traffic would become too dangerous.
- angarg12 3y agoI'm from Spain and during the last couple of decades cities have experimented a lot with urban planning, including turning streets into one way with broader sidewalks, or turning them pedestrian only. Anecdotally I can say that every street turned pedestrian has been wildly popular, massively revitalizing the area. You can also check out Barcelona Superblocks [1] [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks&rlz=1C5GCEM_enUS1045US1045&oq=barcelona+superblocks&aqs=chrome..69i57.448j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks&rlz=1C...
- tsunamifury 3y agoI'm not meaning to take away from what you are saying, but your blocks are some of the very best pedestrian designed and sized the world. American blocks are by and large, boring, stupid and hugely oversized. Making them pedestrian only would solve nothing when most towns in america are covered it "Stroads"
- foxyv 3y agoSince you know about StrongTowns you probably already know this but I'll leave this here. This is why, in the USA, we need to address the regulations that require us to build houses like this: Offsets, R1 zoning, height restrictions, minimum parking, road width requirements, etc...
- willio58 3y ago
- rglullis 3y agoNot Just bikes made an excellent video about it: https://nebula.tv/videos/notjustbikes-these-stupid-trucks-are-literally-killing-us https://nebula.tv/videos/notjustbikes-these-stupid-trucks-ar...
- paulcole 3y agoPeople just absolutely love buying huge cars though. Not much to do about it unless the government is willing to get involved (and it doesn't seem like they will, at least in the US).
- beanjuiceII 3y agogigantic vehicles ftw, why would i want a tiny little vehicle my family can't fit in?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- duringmath 3y agoCars are bigger now because emissions rules are stricter for sedans and other reasonably sized vehicles, it's a yet another cautionary tale about the unintended consequences of government regulations.
- tlb 3y agoIt was intended by the car companies. As usual, the regulatees understood their business much better than the regulators.
- tgv 3y agoThey bribe them.
- tlb 3y agoThey don't usually have to. They just lobby for something that sounds like it will be good for the public, but is actually good for them in the long run. They can bamboozle well-intentioned regulators because they understand their customers, their operation, and the future of the market much better than the regulators.
- draw_down 3y ago[dead]
- jeroenhd 3y ago> unintended consequences of government regulations Sounds more like a(n intentional) lack of government regulations to me
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoOn one hand, the local governments are deciding to not enforce road laws, so I don't blame normal folks deciding to get larger cars to feel safer. [1] https://sfstandard.com/2023/01/11/sf-police-watchdogs-set-to-decide-ban-on-cops-pulling-over-drivers-for-low-level-traffic-offenses/#:~:text=In%20a%20contentious%20decision%20spurred,certain%20low%2Dlevel%20traffic%20stops https://sfstandard.com/2023/01/11/sf-police-watchdogs-set-to.... [2] https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/person-shot-while-driving-on-i-580-in-san-leandro-chp/amp/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/person-shot-while-drivin...
- fooker 3y agoA lot of things are 'terrible for society' but are extremely convenient or desirable. Cheap flights, high volume international shipping, social media, alcohol and other addictive substances, high sugar food. For those of you with comfortable, white collar, first world jobs with strong opinions about large cars--you could reduce your personal carbon footprint by 10-20x by moving to India or Vietnam, etc. Are you going to do that?
- unethical_ban 3y agoTerrible logic. And it isn't "just" comfortable middle class people who are part of the problem. The solution is collective action through government at all levels. Governments should be promoting Neighborhood electric vehicles and e-bikes. Modify regulations that promote 5000lb behemoth vehicles through knock-on effects. Tax heavy vehicles more. Tax tires more. Require safety inspections to ensure tires replacement is not neglected. What makes you think it is up to every individual with a six months savings cushion to move across the planet to a foreign land so they can marginally impact their consumption?
- fooker 3y ago>The solution is collective action through government at all levels. Government intervention is great when it works. There are two issues. This gives the government too much power to make unilateral decisions. These decisions are not always going to be the right one. And the government is not always going to be ideologically aligned with what you believe. >What makes you think it is up to every individual with a six months savings cushion to move across the planet to a foreign land so they can marginally impact their consumption? You have just advocated for government action at all levels. What makes you think the 'government' is not going to relocate people at a whim given enough power? History is full of examples where this has happened, sometimes because of direct government action, sometimes indirect.
- rs999gti 3y ago> You have just advocated for government action at all levels. Got to love that central control and planning. Next up social credit scores in the US and CA. Putting pancake syrup on waffles instead of maple? Minus 200 social credits.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- S_A_P 3y agoIm just not on board with this at all. Ive driven for 35 years WITHOUT an accident, and I dont look at my phone while driving. IF EVERYONE DROVE WITHOUT A PHONE deaths by car would DRAMATICALLY DECREASE. Yet we are yelling that cars are too big, completely ignoring the design decisions made when building the cars. Even "small" cars like the BMW 3 series have grown into large cars now mainly so that they will pass crash tests. Cars are markedly safer now than in the 1960s and 1970s when cars were enormous boats, look at the 2005 impala vs 1955 impala video for a great example. I cant drive even a small trip without someone on the road causing extra traffic because their IG or whatever is too important to ignore, but big cars are the problem... OK...
- m463 3y agoI find it interesting how cars and athletic shoes have both enlarged. Modern SUVs have become oversized and even look like the oversized basketball shoes.
- whartung 3y agoWhat's interesting is WHY cars have become bigger. The driver (heh) is the way the federal car mileage legislation formulas work. Simply, the large the vehicle, the worse the gas mileage can be. This is a reason why pickup trucks are large (not just F-150s, but "small" trucks like Toyota and Nissan). The overall area that the vehicle covers is part of the equation about what the minimum gas mileage can be. Smaller cars have to be very efficient compared to larger ones. So, cars and trucks have been drifting larger, longer, and wider in order for the automakers to cope with the demands of the CAFE standards and the market.
- giantg2 3y agoI feel like the perspective is off. Sure people are trading cars for SUVs and trucks. But does anyone else see that they don't really make full size cars anymore? Cars have been shrinking for decades. Even the "full size" cars today have cramped interiors. Perhaps if consumers had better options for cars, then they wouldn't be buying larger vehicles. Cars like my 89 Caprice were a nice size.
- jdsully 3y agoFleet economy standards are based on the footprint of the vehicle. The bigger it is the lower the MPG has to be. It’s an unintended side effect of regulation.
- 666_666_666 3y ago[dead]
- robotnikman 3y agoI feel like the increasing obesity epidemic in the US is certainly not helping with this... larger cars for larger people.
- dragonwriter 3y agoI think aerodynamics and the social importance of stature are bigger problems. When I was younger, as a reasonably tall person, often there was still good leg and headroom as a driver in boxy (or at least, less streamlined) compact or even subcompact cars. Now its rare in anything not an SUV (and even compact SUVs often aren’t great.)
- Tokkemon 3y agoYes. I literally couldn't fit into some of the smaller cars.
- kulikalov 3y agoI've been living in Europe for many years. Never needed a car, and moved around cities on a bicycle, public transportation, and sometimes a cab. On a train/plane for longer distances. Safe, healthy, pleasant, loved it. Moved to the US last fall. One can't live here without a car anywhere outside NYC (and maybe Boston/Chicago?). The reason is not just the car-centric cities design. It's the individualism culture, the severe income inequality, and the crime levels. I'm not advocating for or against the US culture to be clear, just pointing out the slightly less obvious causes of the car use.
- chrisco255 3y agoDo you own your home and if so, how much land do you own? If Europe is so great, why do you suppose Americans are not emigrating there en masse?
- d00mer 3y ago> why do you suppose Americans are not emigrating there en masse? One still needs to know the local language to get a job in most European countries.
- rootusrootus 3y agoIt's also not specific to the US. Canada has identical car culture. And even the utopias in Europe have lots of cars. And suburbia, too! It's fascinating how perceptions are manipulated on HN to fit a narrative.
- superkuh 3y ago(only) High population density is also terrible for society. Cars offset this and provide good medium and low population density living. A good balance of people in high, medium and low density living situations are needed to be sure.
- TheRealDunkirk 3y agoIt's the sight-lines that are driving me nuts. I'm 6', and I can just barely see over the hoods of the new trucks and SUV's. When did all the automakers get together and agree to make them as stylish as a brick? I've almost gotten hit in parking lots twice this year, because I can't see around them in the car. We need to rewrite the rules on how much space a car park slot takes, because these new vehicles have to turn in their mirrors automagically just to fit in them now.
- gffrd 3y ago… and try crossing the street when to your left is a large SUV/truck—it's like peeking out of foxhole: you see nothing until all of a sudden 6000lbs of metal are inches from your face. Fun fact: An M1 Abrams battle tank has better sight lines than a Chevy Silverado! An analysis by Twitter user @FreckleEars: https://twitter.com/FreckleEars/status/1624137853872574475/photo/1 https://twitter.com/FreckleEars/status/1624137853872574475/p... It's striking looking at the "commercial" vehicles—all of which have better sightlines-per-scale than their consumer relatives. I'm going to guess that commercial use / insurers are very worried about liability in a way that Jimmy is not … so when he mows down a neighborhood toddler in his SuperDuty, it's a local "tragedy," and not seen as macro-level negligence.
- piker 3y agoMoved to the UK from the US in 2017. Visited my hometown with my new family in 2022 for the first time due to the pandemic. I was blown away at how massive the trucks had become in that span for no useful reason. Europe is on the other end of the spectrum, granted, but it didn't even seem out of the ordinary to see F150s that are essentially F350s from a few model-years back with a single occupant wrapped around the double drive-through lanes of the local Chick-Fil-A and backing up traffic all the way into the main thoroughfare. It's so obvious how ruinous this is for even the basic civil engineering.
- 1970-01-01 3y agoI see huge size as a red herring. All of his problems have existed for 100 years, and will continue to exist for 100 more. Problem 1: endangers others on the street Problem 2: worsens climate change Problem 3: shreds tires Problem 4: destroys roadways Problem 5: makes cars expensive
- Quarrelsome 3y agoIsn't mpg also a factor in terms of emissions? A lot of these tanks are gonna be more thirsty. SUVs also account for much of the increase in co2 emissions although when I read that stat it didn't breakdown where in the world those SUVs are being bought (I imagine some are being bought in developing economies that are adopting an American model).
- ei8ths 3y agoI have a big car, i have kids and its great for trips. I also pull a camper on occasion so its useful. I think for those purposes it works great. Once my kids are out of the house, i will easily down size and even possibly sell the camper.
- Zigurd 3y agoI haven't yet seen this proposed on this thread: require larger vehicles to have passive braking and a high level of driver assist and cameras with machine vision that warns drivers of cyclists and pedestrians.
- fwungy 3y agoA lot of car bloat is response to regulatory measures. Every time we add more safety features to a car, whether for drivers or those the car might collide with, they get bigger and more expensive.
- hereonout2 3y agoI'm from the UK and don't understand the desire for massive cars, absolutely nothing seems designed for vehicles this wide. Does it not just make life a whole lot harder? In London we still have streets and river crossings that were built for horse drawn carriages, but every other car is a giant. Almost no parking seems suitable either. The Ford Ranger is the most comically out of place, love the colours and looks but the fact you could fit in a few sheets of 8x4 plywood whilst doing the school run can't possibly be applicable to many.
- madrox 3y agoThere's a lot of low density population in our country, and it really adds up to a lot of people given just how much land we have. One person in five lives in rural America. For a lot of people living among poor infrastructure, these kinds of cars are the most practical available for the lives they lead. I'm not a huge car apologist, but I believe (especially on HN) there is a bias towards seeing the problem only through the lens of urban or suburban life. Meaningful solutions won't occur by leaving rural America behind or minimizing their issues.
- k99x55 3y agoCars are bad for society, huge cars just exacerbate it.
- jemmyw 3y agoHN seems kind of obsessed with this topic. I wonder why it's a pertinent discussion point right now. I remember discussing the subject 20 years ago so it's not a new phenomenon. I've managed to not own an suv in that time but most of my peers seem to think they're a requirement as soon as you have a kid.
- taylodl 3y agoEverything is getting bigger. Not only cars and trucks, but motorcycles too! It doesn't end there - our houses are also getting bigger. Our portions of food are getting bigger. As a result of all this we're all getting bigger. None of this is any good for us, but I don't know what needs to happen to reverse this trend.
- dahwolf 3y agoHere's a depressing thought: I'm from the Netherlands. We're dense and have small roads and parking spots. So monster trucks like these are impractical, expensive to own (road tax based on weight) and expensive to drive due to the poor mileage and high gas prices. None of these things seems to matter. I'm in my 40s and can't remember seeing a single car like this in my entire life until about 5 years ago. Now I very regularly see them, they're on the rise. Some people just want to have a huge fucking truck for no apparent rational or adult reason. And it seems that as they make an appearance, it inspires others. It fits in a generic pattern I'm seeing around me. People with disposable wealth will spent it on ridiculous life "upgrades" that make no rational sense. I'm seeing giant houses being built whilst there's 1-2 people living in it, and most of the day nobody at all. I'm talking about homes with so much space that you don't know what to do with it. Just because you can. In these times of energy transition and ultra high energy prices, I see neighbors investing in an outdoor sauna. It's not that I want to police what people can or cannot spent their money on, I'm just saying it's way out of bounds. Beyond the reasonable. Excessive resource usage with no immediate purpose by any stretch of the imagination. But I'll also come to terms with the idea that perhaps I'm not that much better. My guilty pleasure is annual very remote travel, which as we know is a massive contributor to CO2 output. If taxation or discouragement does not have the desired effect and banning is difficult if not unwanted, my conclusion is that behavioral change is not to be expected much from.
- Rudism 3y agoI recently got a new vehicle and went to great lengths to find a smaller electric that would fit my needs. My wife argued that this was a bad move, however: > Tall vehicles have bigger blind spots and are more likely to strike a person’s torso or head. New vehicles have a billion sensors and cameras that eliminate blind spots and warn you aggressively if you're about to do something stupid, so it's a moot point. > US automakers offer no alternative, and car bloat pushes buyers to upsize – if only to avoid being at a disadvantage on the road b/c others have big cars. This is a reason why it's _better_ to have a bigger car. If you're in an accident and you're the smaller car you're going to be worse off, and since so many people are driving tanks these days you're putting yourself at a much higher risk if you don't also drive one. And while it's true that the roads and planet are worse off, until _everyone_ around you also starts downsizing their cars, it's a matter of balancing the minuscule amount of environmental good that you as an individual driving a slightly smaller car might achieve versus the additional risk that you're putting yourself in by driving a smaller car.
- Wildliferanger 3y agoIronically this is almost entirely due to US enviromental regulations punishing smaller more effeciant vehicles. The standards force larger gas guzzlers becuase the MPG limits are based on ft2 size of the chassis therefore you have to make them large to meet standards. You can't find small trucks anymore due to CAFE standards as automakers upsize trucks in order to lower MPG requirements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy There is alot of small light duty that the US is missing compared to the rest of the world due to how the standards work. For example a small pick up truck like an S10 would need 50+mpg but add 20 ft2 to increase it to the size of the standard american trucks you see it mpg requirement becomes 32mpg. Hence why trucks like the S10 has completely vanished. Mind you the automakers lobby for this becuase it prevent affordable truck from being sold forcing only the high profit large gas guzzler trucks as the only option.
- t0bia_s 3y agoIt's hypocritical trend. We talk about reducing emissions but produce and buy cars that are 20 times or more heavier than our bodies and ratio increasing every year. Also we talk about lack of parking places at cities and again... We produce bigger cars. Obviously its just a game for some.
- anonair 3y agoIn Turkiye stupid tax rules make pickup trucks (e.g. Toyota Hilux) cheaper than more efficient 2 row SUVs (e.g. Toyota RAV4).
- u801e 3y agoThe French came up with a poignant term for this: "Autobesity"[1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/11/paris-charge-suv-drivers-higher-parking-fees-tackle-auto-besity https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/11/paris-charge-s...
- dr-detroit 3y agoCute but a Chevy Cruze is 27" shorter than a 57 Chevy. Cars are shrinking.
- xethos 3y agoNow do literally any pickup truck, or compare sedan to sedan instead of sedan to compact - a category that didn't really exist in America ~65 years ago.