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FCC imposes record penalty against transnational illegal robocalling operation
- kimi 3y agoLooks like the wind has changed, and they want to give a string signal of what is allowable or not. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36975701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36975701 from yesterday. Not sure whether actually get the $300M paid....
- mannykannot 3y ago"Two of the central players of the operation, Roy M. Cox and Aaron Michael Jones, were under lifetime bans against making telemarketing calls following lawsuits by the Federal Trade Commission and State of Texas." We can hope that the size of the fine will set the stage for some significant jail time, as it seems unlikely that anything else will work.
- voytec 3y agodupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989845
- linsomniac 3y agoCouldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago[flagged]
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoAside: what's with the no HTML page option for these news releases... Docx? TXT? That's why we end up on media report sites to talk about this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989845
- decremental 3y ago[dead]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jjulius 3y ago>... when you surely knew... What makes you so confident? The discussion in the original post was for a TechCrunch URL, not the FCC url used here, so HN wasn't going to flag the dupe when OP posted this. Not only that, but the thread for the TechCrunch article is currently post #98, all the way back on page four[1] at the time of this comment. HN doesn't have a search feature either. This[2] is all one needs to do, rather than wasn't energy chastising someone based on an assumption. Edit: What an odd account. It looks like this user, by and large, just points out duplicate threads, rather than diving into discussions. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/?p=4 https://news.ycombinator.com/?p=4 [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36999524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36999524
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoNot odd, recently pointing out dupes because they have been getting out of control lately.... The TechCrunch article is way down page 4 at time of comment because it's old news already! Want to talk about it? Great! Go there! The point of the dupe calling out is to stop conversations from repeating and being split up across multiple threads. When the discussion consolidates around one thread (whether it's the official post or not) that's where it should stay. OP could share the post and then comment with a link to the main discussion thread. Guessing the OP was up on the story because of an earlier post about the FCC thing a day or so ago. HN doesn't have a search? what are you talking about? The HN search powered by Algolia is excellent. Bottom of the site.
- Tao3300 3y agoYou need a different hobby. There's no junior mod award. I was under the impression this was account was a bot.
- jjulius 3y ago>Want to talk about it? Great! Go there! No point in giving someone grief for not noticing something that they have to go digging for and might miss along the way. >The point of the dupe calling out... I know what the point is, but there's a better way to do it - in fact, I linked to an example of someone doing just that. Your comment goes above and beyond that in a negative way and doesn't "assume good faith"[1]. >HN doesn't have a search? what are you talking about? The HN search powered by Algolia is excellent. Bottom of the site. I've been here long enough and have never noticed it, so I'll again give OP a pass there, too. I think you need to find something better to do with your time. The fact that you do this so often and that you've escalated to attacking someone for it demonstrates that you might be letting duplicate posts on an internet forum bother you just a bit too much. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- moneywoes 3y agoWill this be enforced?
- capableweb 3y agoJudging by the following part, it seems they'll at least try: > That enforcement action was taken in coordination with the Ohio Attorney General’s Office, which brought a lawsuit under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act against several entities and individuals associated with the enterprise. The Commission also proposed a fine and offered the parties a chance to respond, which they did not do, resulting in today’s unprecedented fine. Should the parties not pay the fine promptly, this matter will be referred to the U.S. Department of Justice for collection. But maybe the legal/justice system is so broken in the US that they'll just ignore it? Hard to imagine, but I don't live there so who knows.
- sidewndr46 3y agoHow do they collect it if there are no assets to seize?
- bleepblop 3y agoThe government will garnish your wages and any benefits such as social security to the end of your life.
- sidewndr46 3y agoWe're talking about criminal fraudsters. I really doubt they just walk into 7 figure jobs at a bank after this kind of thing.
- bleepblop 3y agoExactly. Being poor is its own kind of prison.
- duxup 3y agoI'm at about 2 calls a day. But it ebbs and flows and there are days I get 6+ calls. it's horrible.
- e40 3y agoMe, too. I’ve noticed a weird trend. Voicemail that is 20 seconds of silence. I can hear the sound of breathing. No hello or anything. Once I picked up and got the same thing. I even said “I can hear you breathing” and got the hang up after 20 seconds. They’re all from different numbers so I don’t think I have a stalker.
- lacrimacida 3y agoWith smartphones you can sortof mitigte them but this really ruined non smart phones
- duxup 3y agoAgreed, google and apple do a pretty good job flagging them. Doesn't mitigate the disturbance entirely, but it helps.
- denton-scratch 3y agoMy main phone is a (non-smart) VOIP phone. It gets zero spam. I have a mobile, but it's old, and the battery no longer holds much charge, so despite being mobile, it never moves; it sits on my desk plugged into power. I only have it so I can receive and respond to SMS challenges.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y agoI have a business line on my cellphone. That means it’s published, and is known as a business line. I probably get 30 s[c|p]am calls a day on it. None of them are the ones these guys ran.
- insanitybit 3y agoYeah, I'm at 2 calls minimum, plenty of days where I hit 4+ though. I don't pick up my phone to unknown callers anymore.
- sh1mmer 3y agoI’d rather see them force technical measures that fix the problem than just issuing fines.
- klysm 3y agoThat would result in less money flowing though
- lolinder 3y agoAccording to yesterday's article on the same case, the FCC is claiming to also have done just that: > “Armed with the facts [the FCC] gave phone companies permission to cut off this traffic before going one step further and directing them to block it outright. We got results. Following our action, the number of auto warranty calls fell by 99 percent,” she [FCC Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel] wrote. https://techcrunch.com/2023/08/03/fcc-fines-robocaller-a-record-300m-after-blocking-billions-of-their-scam-calls/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/08/03/fcc-fines-robocaller-a-rec... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36989845
- refurb 3y agoIt was interesting what Singapore did. Basically all numbers need to be registered, otherwise the default caller ID is "Likely SCAM". The government gave companies a heads up, but even Singapore Airlines and a few major banks had to send out emails apologizing for their texts being labelled as "Likely Scam" right after the change. Suffice to say legitimate companies got registered really quickly.
- smeej 3y agoIs it harder to spoof a number in Singapore than in the U.S.? In the U.S., it's trivially easy to make your call look like it's coming from whatever number you want, so scammers just have caller ID display the real phone number for the bank they're pretending to call from.
- fmajid 3y agoNo more, see SHAKEN/STIR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN
- ParetoOptimal 3y agoI had 6 of these per day. Now all of them get blocked by: https://f-droid.org/packages/me.lucky.silence/ https://f-droid.org/packages/me.lucky.silence/
- sh1mmer 3y ago$300M is a big fine, but if they are saying this scam ring made over 500m calls did they really make anything close to this much? It would seem surprising to me if you could make anything close to $0.60/call with cold calling even if there are whales it just seems like a stunt number.
- whateverman23 3y agoI'm not sure what your point is. Even if they made just $10mil, fining them out of existence (and giving precedent for such a big fine later) is still a good thing.
- __ryan__ 3y agoIt was 5 billion calls to 500 million numbers over a 3 month period.
- mrits 3y ago4 billion were to me though
- charlieo88 3y agoThe fine isn't to remove the profit, it's to punish them for the 5 billion scam phone calls. They are being fined 5 cents per call.
- denton-scratch 3y agoIt's a fine, not a compensation order. The robocalls were criminal offences, not just attempts at unfair enrichment. The purpose of the fine is to punish the offender and to deter others.
- nicechianti 3y ago[dead]
- pasttense01 3y agoI think this is mostly a PR gimmick as I don't think much of the money is collectible. I would think it should not be all that difficult for telephone companies to implement spam blocking measures: so why isn't this happening?
- insanitybit 3y agoI don't know if it's still the case but Verizon used to charge you to block spam calls - so if you didn't pay and they knew you were being called by a spam number, they would still let it go through. Absolutely insane. It was something like $4 a month.
- scns 3y agoThey should be fined too. Trying to rip off their customers instead of protecting them.
- lolinder 3y agoSee my other comment. The FCC is claiming to have finally done that, instructing providers to completely cut off this operator. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37000227 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37000227
- 6DM 3y agoThis is very similar to advice on the internet given to people, "Just block the number that you got a spam call from." Unfortunately, spam calls come from a new random number every time, ensuring that blocking the number doesn't work. Also, the number is spoofed, I even got a call from my own number once. My understanding is they can easily just setup a new route/new ip/new account and start making calls again.
- lolinder 3y agoThis would be less like setting up a new IP address and more like setting up a whole new AS. Sure, it can be done, but it costs the scammer a lot more than a simple blocked number.
- Waterluvian 3y agoTo those complaining about getting constant calls. This is fixable if you want to fix it. 1. Set up voicemail 2. Set to ignore all calls from numbers not in your phone book. 3. Resist the FOMO that they count on you being suckered into. This is just a form of “you may have already won!” The Ned Flanders moment of “but what if it’s an emergency?” Emergencies don’t come from random numbers. Random numbers with legit calls will leave messages. Take back control of your time. You aren’t thrall to your phone.
- glennpratt 3y agoWhen my doctor calls, I cannot get a call back through their system, I've tried, and I don't have a list of their outgoing numbers.
- jjulius 3y ago>Emergencies don’t come from random numbers. This is an absolute that just plain isn't true. For instance, out-of-state PD calling my sister-in-law from an unrecognized number to inform her that her sibling had died suddenly. There are numerous instances where an unrecognized number may need to contact someone for an emergency. I don't say this to disagree with the general sentiment of your post, but I do disagree with that particular statement.
- Waterluvian 3y agoIn that example, would the person not have just left a message, “Hi it’s Name, please call me back right away”? I just don’t understand how we got to a place where the way things worked for decades suddenly doesn’t work anymore. We would leave our homes and not be reachable. Most urgent calls aren’t actually “emergencies.”
- jjulius 3y ago>In that example, would the person not have just left a message, “Hi it’s Name, please call me back right away”? Sure, but whether or not that suffices for someone is pretty circumstantial. Like I said, I don't disagree with your general sentiment, just the absolute. And hey, change happens, c'est la vie.
- pindab0ter 3y agoI'm genuinely curious as to why this isn't a problem in Europe. I live in the Netherlands and no one I know has ever received even a single call. What makes this a problem in the U.S., but not in Europe?
- mattmanser 3y agoYou do get the occasional one in the UK. I get one every 2-4 weeks I'd estimate. I imagine part of the reason it's not a bigger problem in Europe is not a lot of people speak Dutch/German/etc. in the countries where these scammers are often calling from. They all speak English though.
- jjtheblunt 3y agoAmerican spam calls include clearly midwestern dialect (chicago, st louis, with a big distance span from there) prerecorded nonsense stories presumably by an unwitting voice actor. I imagine that voice actors in German would be less useful because answering often yields a clearly non North American accent person clearly complicit in whatever scam is being attempted
- robnado 3y agoMy goto is to speak a non-english language that most people where I live should know. If they don't understand, I hang up. It's a very simple heuristic that allows me to answer important calls while filtering out 99% of scammers.
- Scoundreller 3y agoFrance had quite a few spam calls for a while. They got the (en francais) "This is DHL calling and we have a package for you" from a real person... There are a lot of French speakers in the world in poor economic conditions. Probably proportionately more than English. But it's still not as bad as English calls in North America. (In Canada, I just respond in broken French to these calls, any official call would be able to transfer me to a French speaking (and 99.9% certainly bilingual attendant)).
- rbultje 3y ago
- bleepblop 3y agoI once got a spoofed call from the number 666-2012. They told me I was going to hell with an obviously modulated voice. I just replied, "Finally!!" The person on the other end didn't know how to react to that. This was probably around 2009ish? After that time though, random calls were never fun like that. They became predatory from then on out. I tried to play around at first, messing with them and such. Then it became relentless and the blocking never seemed to work. Then I just switched to letting random numbers go to VM. That seemed to have cut off about 50% of robocalls over time. Then eventually I got a pixel phone. Just the call screening alone is worth it. I may get 1 or 2 random numbers calling me a month now. And I usually don't even know they called unless I look at my call log. I am happy that trend is starting to be picked up by other phone makers. Good on the FCC for clamping down on this stuff. It has been a long term problem and there is still a lot more of these people out there. I hope they learned a lot and can utilize this knowledge in the future to shut more people down.
- Arrath 3y ago> After that time though, random calls were never fun like that. My aging father loves to play with the scammers any chance he gets. One day he got the classic "Grandpa! Oh thank god you answered, I've been arrested in Vegas and I need bail money or terrible things are going to happen!" After a few beats of shocked silence he launches into "BILLY?!?!?! The family has been trying to find you since your mom ran off with you 15 years ago! Where is she? Where have you been? Are you well? We just want you to come back home! We've had a PI looking for you for over a decade. Give me the address of the jail and I'll send our lawyer to pick you up." Usually they're not equipped to deal with such a plot twist and just hang up.
- tiltowait 3y agoI really enjoyed messing with the "Microsoft tech support" calls I would frequently get. In addition to keeping them on hold for half an hour "while my computer turned on" (aka I made and ate breakfast), I liked to try to follow their directions on wholly inappropriate hardware and seeing how they responded. After telling one guy that "chrome" wasn't a recognized command, he asked me what was on my screen and got very excited when I replied, "READY." Alas, my old Commodore 64 proved scam-proof. (As an aside, I remain amazed by the scammers' patience.)
- denton-scratch 3y ago> Last year, to stop this then-ongoing telemarketing campaign in its tracks, the FCC directed all U.S.-based voice service providers to cease carrying traffic associated with certain members of the enterprise. I thought it was not permitted (under ITU rules) to refuse to carry selected traffic. Years ago, I was getting robocalls from overseas; at least, the voices seemed to be overseas. I asked $SOMEONE[0] to put a stop to it, and they said that was illegal. But perhaps ITU rules only apply to international calls; or perhaps the ITU[1] has finally got off it's ass and done something useful, for a change. [0] It was years ago; I imagine I asked my landline provider, which was probably BT. [1] The ITU, as far as I can tell, is essentially a body to which governments that are members send representatives. They're supposed to be engineers; but they're there to represent their government's interests, not to improve the global telecom network.
- the88doctor 3y agoDoes this mean no one will be trying to reach me about my car's extended warranty?
- Scoundreller 3y agoI wish Canada would be this effective. Unfortunately, our telecoms control the regulators, instead of the telecoms living in fear of the regulators.
- sprior 3y agoI once got a call with the callerid "Abe Froman". I was actually tempted to answer and ask if this was really the sausage king of Chicago.